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  1. #1
    thecoachman's Avatar
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    2off 1 loading???

    Has anyone heard any good or bad things about:

    No carbs what-so-ever for 2 days and on the 3rd day you load up as much carbs as you can. on the 4th day do the excersise that you need the most work on.

    It suppose to cut your fat and gets you big also????

    any info would help, my diet now sucks......

  2. #2
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    It is funny that you should post this.

    I made a post a copule of weeks ago about an old accuantence of mine. The week before a competiton he would load up on protien for about 3 days the the last 2 days before the competition he would eat nothing but sweet pototoes. I personally would never recommend just eating carbs throughout the day unless you were involved in a sport that required high amounts of eneryg out pput. ( Say like a cross country runner, cycleist, ect) Unless you are doing extreme amounts of cardio your body will turn the excess amounts of carbs into unwanted fat. At least thats my take on it anyway.
    IC

  3. #3
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    I heard someone talking about that too and was wondering the same thing. It seems counterintuitive to me because the absence of carbs in ones diet is what forces the body into ketosis at which point one begins, as I understanding it, losing fat through urination (sorry to be so descriptive). As it is commonly accepted that it takes the body three days without carbs to enter into ketosis, I do not understand the principle behind the 2 on 1 off diet.

  4. #4
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Beenie

    The bad thing about ketosis is that your body will much readily burn off muscle tissue than fat. In fact it will try to hold on to the fat that you have because it senses that this is a time of famine in which it will try to conserve as much stored energy as possible. Back along time ago ketosis was a popular fad inwhich BB would try to lose body fat and minmize lean muscle loss with hugh intakes of protien. This however has been proven to be dangerous to one's oveerall health and detrimental to the sport of Body building.
    Tobey

  5. #5
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    I thought I had invented that method Tobey, you say it has been around? I take in between 250 and 400 grams of protien/day I would estimate and from 3-10 grams of carb per day. I calculate the protien to fat ratio is 2:1, i.e., 33% fat. I suplement my diet with very high potency vitamins.

    I have been doing this for 2.5 years, and haven't experienced a problem. I have lost most of my body fat (started at 30% and now around 10%) and GAINED a lot of muscle. Why would they say that I would lose muscle and what are the reported risks?
    Last edited by beenie; 11-30-2001 at 03:23 PM.

  6. #6
    thecoachman's Avatar
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    I have also kept my carbs way down. some days down to zero. Of course there are also those days that I go out drinking and come home around 2:00 in the morning and order a large Meat lovers pizza and eat the whole thing (meat lovers, you know, to stick with the DR ATKINS----It sounds right when I'm drunk!!J/K).

    I have not lost any muscle that I know of but I think that I am not making the gains that I would if I had a normal diet. I do "BONK" out pretty easily, also.

    I think that I don't have a Thyroid anynmore from this DR ATKINS and the ECA stack that I have been on and off for the last year and 1/2.

    I tried eating normaly with a log and everything but I gained like almost 10 pounds in 3 days and none of my work cloths were fitting anymore. I starved myself of carbs for 5 days and I was right back to were i was b-4.

    What does everyone else think of all that.....?

    LATE



  7. #7
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
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    When you eat carbs, your body stores water , as carbs act as a sponge to absorb water. Your 10 lbs. that you gained were probably 9lbs water, and MAYBE....i reiterate MAYBE 1lb of fat. You were probably just bloated, and that's what was causing your clothes to 'seem' smaller.

  8. #8
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Originally posted by beenie
    I thought I had invented that method Tobey, you say it has been around? Why would they say that I would lose muscle and what are the reported risks?
    Beenie,
    Man you must Really be old then!!j/k

    If it is working for you that is great but you are of a select few. My first question would be to ask how old are you? Many how are in their early tweenties or younger really have enough Test floating in their bodies and their metabolisim is allready high so they do not have to worry about fat gains as much. I can remember when I to ate protien out the ass everyday and I was in competition shape for most of the year. Man I miss those days.he,he,he. Anyway as far as the risks faqctors there are many. For instance, your kidneys can only take so much. Once when I was in the hospital for a motorcycle insance my dostors at first that my kidneys had all but shut down because their was so much protien in my urine samples. You are also depleteing your body of many nutrients that you need to maintain a healthy body. This can be offset with a good multiple vitamin though. There are many other risks as well. Ask any nutitionalist or doctor and they can be more thoughal on the subject than I. I know that I could never go back to the diets that I had when I was in my tweenties. I'm not sure how old you are and I do not mean to soud like I am flaming or critizieing you but I really believe that when you get some age on you you too will see what I mean about your past diets. Now I know some who are just blessed with the persfecr metabolism and if you are one of them consider yourself fortunate. This unfortuneatly is rare. Good luck with your diet bro. It appears to be working for you just be sure to drinl plenty of water ALL in the attempt to offset any kidney problems ect in the future.
    Tobey

  9. #9
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    Hi Tobey,

    I did not take it as a flame at all, and for me I view this as education, becuse this is a great way for people like me to learn. I also should note that your point about many of the people on the board being young is well taken. I am very different.

    Over the years I gained about 5-10 lbs a yearso in mt mid 30s I weighed 275, and was 30% bf. I am very tall, way over 6' so I carry it well, but still prettyt heavy. Started low carb dieting and heavy cardio excersize about 2.5 years ago and in less than 1 year was down to about 170 and 10% bf. For the next year I had been trying to add muscle, but could not. I kept a good workout sched, but my weights never went up. After doing my first cycle I got a 25 lb weight increase and it apears to be all to my chest, arms and legs- none to my stomach. The whole time I have been on VERY restricted carbs. I kept my bf% very close to 10%.

    I supplement high potency vitamins, particualy potassium, zink, B complex, and C. I have heard the thing about kidney problems with Atkins but have seen no evidence of it in me. And, yea, my doctor hates the diet, and every nutritionist I meet hates it too. But, while many of them say it doesnt work, it has for me.

    Problem at this point is that I look and feel great. People who I haven't seen come up to me and tell me I look great **blush**. People mistake me for being YEARS younger than I am. I would be very reluctant to switch to a differetent diet and abandon low carb, because I would hate to revert back to my former self.

  10. #10
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Beenie

    Hey Bro,
    If it's working for ya don't change a thing! I would be interested in seeing an example of your daily diet though. Just out of curouisity. Presently my BF % is 10%. I can get it lower but I really have to increrase my cardio output to get it there. And yeah, for short periods at a time I will drop my carb intake to a all time low but I never keep it there for long.
    IC

  11. #11
    beenie's Avatar
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    Well I eat A LOT, so its kind of emabarrasing, but here is an example:

    Breakfast: Two eggs
    1/2 lb bacon.

    Lunch
    1/2 chicken roasted with skin OR 3-4 cans of tunafish OR 1lb of chicken salad.

    Dinner:
    1 1/2 lb steak
    sugar free jello (the whole box)

    Snacks: more bacon and eggs (with an occasional slice of cheese). Chicken salad.

    The only veggis I get are the cellery I put in my tunafish or chicken salad. I have no fruit at all.

    Beverages: tea and coffee
    condiments: mustard and mayo (no ketchup)

    That's basically it. I alway eat when i am hungry and never when i am not. When I was on my cycle you could basiclly double everthing I said above.

    There are occasions when I splurge and make Atkins friendly cookies (out of soy powder and splenda), or even atkins frendlt pizza (its also kinda wierd ingrediant but at this point tastes GREAT).

    I also should mention that I have been doing about 40 minutes of high intensity cardio 4 days a week.

    I would really like to cut my BF% further, but am not sure how to do it. I'd like to look like those guys who are 2%. I am incresing my cardio to an hour 4 times a week and lowering the intensity a tad to see if that gets me going in the right direction. I don't want to lose muscle as I do it.

    As I try to get the bf down further, I use ECA stacks. Is there anything elso that can help. I don't know much abouyt Winny or clen . Do you?

  12. #12
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Diet

    I'm not that falmilar with winny or clen ither but I beleive Pete or Billy could help with it. Damn that is alot of bacon. I had to all but cut bacon and sauage out of my diets as they were to high in Sat. fats. I'm with you on increaseing the cardio. At your present diet I would not drop any more calories. This is kinda funny to tell the truth as I have never seen a diet such as this. Most of the people that I new who were carding down did so with protien shakes and little or no food intake at all. And what they did eat was strickly chicken (baked) or tuna straight out of the can. This is interesting. I may just experiment around with it a little myself to see what happens. I would have to increase the vegetables and take in some multiple vitamins. This sounds like it is going to be fun. I'll let you know what happens in a couple of weeks.
    IC

    PS Try looking up some Thermagene from Sport's Pharama. It is presently one of the strongest things on the market right now however you have to be carefull as to when you take it as it will keep you up all night long if you are not carefull.

  13. #13
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    You can try it. The trick is to keep out hidden carbs. Most of the processed have sugar in them (as does bacon). Even though, the label says bacon has 0 carbs, I assume about 3-4g for a 1/2 lb. serving. By definition it has to, even if its not listed on the label. When u have chicken, make sure it is not breaded. Mayo is ok in Tuna. Any sugar is bad. Ketchup has sugar. BBQ sauce has sugar.

    This being said, Walden Farms has ketchup that is supposed to be carb free: I don't believe them, but the FDA agrees it is.

    If you stick to this, it will take about three days before you begin seeing results. Then you will lose water weight very fast. Over time and with cardio it has been very effective for me, but as you say it is somewhat controversial.

    If you must have veggies, some are better than others. Broccoli, lettuce, celery, and cauliflower are all supposed to be ok in limited quantities. Tomatoes are very bad, and onions are pretty high in carb too. Obviously potatoes are out pasta and bread are out, etc.
    Last edited by beenie; 12-03-2001 at 03:04 PM.

  14. #14
    jersey juice is offline Member
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    That's soo funny cause I just gave that advise on another tread, that's what I do & I have gotten good results by doing that & upping my cardio to 30min eod. I can put on 5 lbs walking past a friggin bakery so I have to really keep my diet in check. I find that after 2 days I loose energy & strength, for the 2 days with no carbs I'm fine, my body uses whatever was stored & then on the 3rd day I eat carbs, but before noon & good carbs ie brown rice, yams, every now & again I'll have an egg sandwich on a roll (damn I'm still human) but works very well for me!

  15. #15
    beenie's Avatar
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    Jersey Juice,

    Aside from the fact that's what you do, what is the principle behind the 2 on 1 off diet? I understand a low fat diet: lower calories and the like less to burn. I understand the low carb diet: no carbs to burn so your body burns fat. I just donít understand how there are any synergies here or how you can accomplish anything on it.

    My question is, doesn't the 1 day on defeat any gains made by the 2 days on. It should take 3 days on befire you see any success with low carb, right?
    Last edited by beenie; 12-04-2001 at 02:58 PM.

  16. #16
    jersey juice is offline Member
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    Well everyone is different, but I can put on weight very easy. What I found is is I deplete carbs for 3 or more days I loose ALOT of energy, not good cause I'm a powerlifter no energy = no strength. Your body stores whatever carbs you put in it until you use them up for energy. Now, if you load up for a day your still getting enough to keep your body functioning regularly and then for the next 2 days you are using all the carbs that were stored prior to depleting. So the reason for doing this is to put all the carbs to work for you instead of constantly putting them in your body without using them therefore turning to fat. Works very well for me & even better if you up the cardio & even throw in an ECA like Xenadrine. Hope this helps explain my reasoning. See I DON'T want to be in ketosis, I just want to put all the nutrients that go into my body to use instead of giving them the chance to be stored as fat.

  17. #17
    thecoachman's Avatar
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    great post jersey juice! I am exactly like you. I can put weight on very quikly. Also, when I try to stick to the induction phase of DR ATKINS and them screw up like on the 3rd or 4th day, I feel full and feel like I put on 10lbs but the next day when I hit the gym and the scale I havn't gained a thing except more energy.

    Thanks for all the input people.
    Last edited by thecoachman; 12-05-2001 at 01:03 PM.

  18. #18
    beenie's Avatar
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    That actually makes some sense to me. I may even try it. I don't experience energy problems as a rule, but I am curious what the presence of carbs in my diet would do for an extra boostparticulaly with lifting. I should say that I go to the NYSC, which is not a real body builder gym, but I think I am in beter shape than most of the other members and many of the trainers.

    I have be on a 0-10g/day carbs for 2.5 years, in which time I have NEVER cheated. I have changed my entire body. My fear with trying something new is that I will revert back to where I started. The amount of cardio I do probablly WILL kill a lota carbs. In an effort to reduce bf% I have upped it from 40 min 4x/wk to 70 min 5x/wk. So theoretically, the carbs may be of benefit. I REALLY miss bread too. With the exception of half of an Atkins friendly bagel (8g grams carb), I have not had any bread in all that time.

    If I try it, I will let u know how it works. If my bf% goes up as a result though, I'll be very pissed.

  19. #19
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Don't worry Bud

    Originally posted by beenie
    My fear with trying something new is that I will revert back to where I started. .
    Beenie,
    I have been lifting for over 15 years and have been a personal trainer for the last 6. Now as detitcated as you are I really do not think that you have nothing to worry about. You keep to close an eye on your body fat for it to get to were it was in the past. Don't be afraid to try somthing new. I'm sure that if you begin to get negative results you will catch it in plenty of time. It's the lazy people in this world that let them selves go.( I am excluding those who DO have legimit medical problems such as thryoid problems, ect.) IN fact I'm still waiting to hear from some of you in the reciepe section. Give it a go and let us know how it goes good or bad. Good luck my friend,
    The Iron Chef

    PS oh yeah, Beenie check your PM's-IC

  20. #20
    beenie's Avatar
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    The trainers have been telling me to add carbs for years, and untill the last couple of days, I had not really considered it. In fact, my trainer last night said that with all the cardio I do i have nothing to worry about. Nonetheless, I worry.

    Your point about trying it and if the bf% goes up abandoning it is well taken. Based on these comments, I will probaly reintroduce some carbs to my diet in a limited amount.

    Another thing I had not really considered is that I began my diet and excersize at about the sme time. I actually began the exersize first lost about 10 lbs (from 275 to 265). It stayed pretty consistent. A few people at my gym told me about low cab. I did some research, read Atkins book and started. The first week of the diet I lost anther ten lbs and the second another 8. At 275 I hgad figured that I would never see 250 again, but there it was. I kept going down all the way to 170, which is VERY low, because I am 6'5". Whats more, with all my lifting I could not bulk or increase the weight I lifted. People were telling me I looked ematiated, but I though I looked pretty good and i fealt great.

    I only recently was able to increase my weight, which resulted from my cycle. I am now about 195, and pretty lean: but I would like to be leaner (like those guys in the magazines).

    So, to get to my point I am not sure how much of my current contition is caused by diet and how much by excersize. I can say that no that my cycle has ended (I sttill have a couple more days on Clomid), and with the increased cardio, my body weight is dipping again. I know some of it is body fat that I am losing becuse it apears to be going dwn on my scale (I have one of those fancy scales). I am concerned that I may be losing muscle now too, which is why I would consider trying what I have been told here. I should say that, the weight I lift has not decreased since the end of my cycle, and in fact, it continues to increase, albeit at slower rates than during.

    Thanks for your help Tobey and for your explanation Jersey Juice. I'll let know what happens when I reintroduce the carbs. I'll probably wait a couple weeks to psych myself up before doing it. If I get fat again you guys are not going to hear the end of it from me!

  21. #21
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Beenie

    Keep a steady supply of Glutamine on hand. Take it at least 3 time a day. This will aid you in keeping your lean as long as you do not leet your training begin to slide. ( although I do not think that you have to worry about that.)

    IC

  22. #22
    jersey juice is offline Member
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    Beenie, sounds like you have the same paranoia I have about eating carbs. I was a fat kid and at one point I weighed 260lbs. I started the Atkins diet, but it really is bad for you for a long time. If I smell food I gain weight so I have to really watch everything I do. I started playing around with the carbs cause obviously less carbs=less fat. I found that after 3 carb depleted days I would get tired & VERY irritable, but after 2 days I was fine, so I would go 2 days without carbs and then on the 3rd day I would introduce carbd IN THE MORNING ONLY! BTW you are doing insane amounts of cardio so you could even go as high as 100grams if your that concerned. Also remember that alot of cardio will also eat at your lean muscle mass, don't know if that's a concern for you, but something to think about. Start off slow with the carbs, brown rice, whole weat breads/bagels even low fat cream cheese, NO PIZZA OR PASTA, that will balloon & bloat you, especially if it's that foreign to your body, you'll prolly get sick, no kidding. I eat so clean that when I eat junk I get very sick, my stomach does flips. Glad I could help anyone out & if you need any extra help shoot me an email or PM, Peace.....

  23. #23
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    Well, here is my two cents...I have tried the Atkins diet and lost weight (290 to 260) I am 6'3" and pretty much gained the weigth back when I reintroduced carbs...My body goes into ketosis very rapidly (only takes a day and a half) and this sort of diet just did not keep my energy levels high...I felt sluggish all throughout the week. I have since switched to the Body for Life and I am down to 215 with 10% bf. I think I look great and I have got a ton of compliments...thing is, people are telling me I am "too skinny"...I need to pack on some muscle, I mean who doesn't? I am keeping my diet the same, but adding in one meal and one Myoplex Lite bar as a snack...My protein intake is around 250 gms right now, and will be around 350 gms with the added meal and bar. I lift three x a week and do cardio 5 - 6 days a week, sometimes twice a day...20 - 30 mins in the morning then cardio kickboxing at night two times a week...Is this way too much cardio? I have never been this thin in my life and I have lost the keg that was covering my six pack...I will post a pic if you guys are interested in seeing my progress...Let me know what you guys think about the cardio.

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