Diet Help/Evaluation

[Bill_boy2005]

Hello everyone

I am looking for some help in balancing my diet and workout. First my stats- 36, 243#, 20%bf, 6'4". I am on TRT due to hypogonadism, level was 37 on a normal range of 300-1050. I did my first injection Monday and am on 200mg bi-weekly of test c.

I workout around 4-5 times a week using a four day split(detailed below) and try to run around 20 miles per week outdoors. I am currently training for a marathon in Phoenix in January and have a half in my training schedule in De***ber in Las Vegas. So my goals overall are is to stay as lean as I can, build some good lean mass, but maintain my ability to run distance. Knowing that the running in high quantities is not necessarily condusive to mass development, I am hoping for some help in developing a diet that will allow me to do both. I will be tapering my running up over the next month, with a peak of around 40 miles two weeks after the half marathon. After that I will taper back down and be carb loading the last week before the marathon.

So for my activity level I have been advised to shoot for around 2500-2900 calories a day. I have been shooting for around 240 grams of protein a day. Fat and carbs I have not paid enough attention to over the last month or so and really need to focus on good sources. Generally for carbs, preloading any how, I shoot for whole grain pastas and a lighter sauce like pomodora or marinara.

So any help that can be offered is much appreciated. I do apologize for asking for help as I am sure that nearly every question I have is answered here on the forums. But since I have been thrown into the TRT I want to try to make sure that I do not make a mistake before I have a chance to get everything dialed in. Right now most of my focus has been on studying the TRT as well as researching causes, etc for that.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Workout- days are occasionally dependent on work travel schedule
Day 1-back and Biceps
Day 2-chest and Triceps
Day 3-shoulders, calves, and abs
Day 4-thighs
Day 5-rest or cardio only

Running-
Monday-Friday 2-5 miles
Saturday-long runs to make up miles to 20
Sunday-rest

[--->>405<<---]

hey billy welcome im sure u will be more than satisfied with the help you will receive here.. i too am in the process of starting trt and before i found out i was low started in here... so we are doing the same things just starting at opposite points.. about 7 weeks ago i started in here at 213 lbs and im already down to 196 with the help of the guys.. i would recommend u use the formula i gave u in the HRT forum and post up a sample diet that way theyll be more equipped to show where u need to make some changes...

[--->>405<<---]

Thanks everyone. I have started a thread over in the nutrition forum.

Wow that puts my BMR around 2700, being moderately active goes to 4185.

243.8lb(your weight) x .4536 = 110.59kg(total weight)

110.59 x 0.21(bf%) = 23.22kg(fat)

110.59 - 23.22 = 87.37(LBM)

BMR = 370 + (21.6 x 87.37) = 2257

moderate = 2257 x 1.55 = 3498(tdee)

im running about 900 calories under my tdee and lifting 4 days/week and doing cardio 5-6 days / week and ive lost 17 lbs in 45 days... only about 1 lb of it was lbm...

[Bill_boy2005]

Thanks everyone. I have started a thread over in the nutrition forum.

Wow that puts my BMR around 2700, being moderately active goes to 4185.

243.8lb(your weight) x .4536 = 110.59kg(total weight)

110.59 x 0.21(bf%) = 23.22kg(fat)

110.59 - 23.22 = 87.37(LBM)

BMR = 370 + (21.6 x 87.37) = 2257

moderate = 2257 x 1.55 = 3498(tdee)

im running about 900 calories under my tdee and lifting 4 days/week and doing cardio 5-6 days / week and ive lost 17 lbs in 45 days... only about 1 lb of it was lbm...

Thanks for bringing this over and doing that, makes a lot more sense now. I will work on the sample diet and post it. Again, thanks a ton for the help.

[--->>405<<---]

sure thing man..

[Bill_boy2005]

Here are a couple shots of me currently. Have a lot of improvement to make, but guess we all start somewhere. I wish I had a picture of myself three years ago.

[Bill_boy2005]

Todays Diet

530-protein shake AST VP2, one scoop and special K 90 calorie bar

800-starkist albacore tuna package

1230- chicken tacos

330-clif bar-oatmeal/raisin

530-Pre-WO 1 scoop AST VP2 and 2 scoops pump bol preworkout

630- 2 scoops AST VP2 one scoop AST DGC

830- 6 oz lean ground beef patty, romaine lettuce salad low cal dressing, baked potato

1030-1 scoop Dymatize XT Blueberry Muffin protein

8-20 oz bottles of water

Supplements/Vitamins
2-AST Pro 32 Vitamins
2-Liver complex Milk Thistle
2- glucosamine/chondroitin/MGM
2-fish oil gel caps

According to my fitness pal
Protein 269 grams
Fat 49 grams
Carbs 240
Sodium was at 4095mg-way high

[--->>405<<---]

bill im no expert by far but if u are trying to burn fat it appears to me ur carbs are way too high.. these other guys on here will chime in im sure but for now i will give u an example thats working well for me.. u do weigh about 50 lbs more than me but the percentages should work similarly..

my diet consists of 59%Pro/19%Carb/22%Fat..

305g pro/ 101g carb/ 51g fat

i eat all complex carbs in first 3 meals primarily...we wkout at difft times so u would prob want to eat ur carbs at meal 1 and then pre workout and post workout..

lets just say hypothetically u ran the same numbers i did : tdee = 3498

im running 900 cal deficit alot of guys seem to think 500 cal deficit is a good place to start but theres a bit of disagreement with the accuracy of tdee based on activity level( yours being BMR x 1.55) so to compensate u may want to increase caloric deficit a bit more than 500 cal to say 700 cal...

3498 - 700cal = 2798
2798 x .59 = 1650(cal from protein) / 4(cal/gram protein) = 412g protein( some may say this is too much but u dont want alot of carbs IMO and the cals have to come from somewhere)
2798 x .19 = 531(cal from carbs) /4(cal/gram carb) = 132g carbs
2798 x .22 = 615(cal from fat) /9(cal/gram fat) = 68g fat

so: 412g protein/132g carbs/68g fat is what u would eat each day..

412/6(meals per day) = 68g pro/meal
132/3(carb meals/day) = 44g carbs/meal
68/6(fat meals/day) = 11g fat/meal

usually i will have more fat/meal at the last meal of the day along with my protein such as nat peanut butter...

it looks to me that u may be drinking more protein shakes than necessary.. i drink protein shake only post workout(PWO) .. its better to get ur protein from real food than from a shake.. the other thing that stands out to me is ur carbs may be coming from the wrong type of sources.. such as the special k bar and the oatmeal raisin bar.. when eating this type of diet its best when ur food sources consist typically of one ingredient such as:sweet potato,oatmeal,brown rice etc.. i can tell u the ONLY carbs i consume come from either oatmeal or sweet potato... thats it... some guys will eat brn rice but with me if it aint broke i dont try to fix it the more simple u can make ur meals the better its gonna be for u cuz u dont have to worry about hidden ingredients that may affect ur progress.. i dont know about ur chicken tacos but i would say u prob want to stay away from any kind of tortilla (at least for now til uve started making good progress).. once u get in a groove and get closer to how u want to look and have a better understanding of what u can eat and how it affects u u can incorporate other things.. also u will want to include good fibrous green veggies into at least 3 of ur meals.. i prefer broccoli,spinach,and asparagus.. i buy mine frozen cuz its cheaper and easy to just put in tupperware containers and head out the door.. mine usually thaw by the time i eat them and i dont even bother heating them up.. they way i currently look at food is for fuel only(when i try to gain pleasure out of eating my mindset tends to drift towards what i can get away with and for now its not the right mindset to be in for myself )

CARDIO:IN THE MORNING ON EMPTY STOMACH 45 MINUTES MINIMUM this i cant stress enuff .. it has done me very very well.. some days i get up at 0430 so i can get mine in.. also afterwards on the way to work i feel really good physically and mentally plus its out of the way.. u will want to get some BCAAs(branch chain amino acids) and mix it with water pre/cardio to help preserve LBM.. i usually drink mine on the way up the stairs to my elliptical machine(which btw is the main type of cardio i do and i love it )

if u cant or wont do ur cardio am fasted its recommended to do HIIT post workout ..

my sample diet:
meal1: 1 whole egg
(0700) 5 egg whites
1/4 cup oatmeal
1 tbs sugar free strawberry preserves(makes oats taste better)

meal2:5 oz chicken breast
(1030)4 oz sweet potato
2 cups broccoli

LIFT

meal3PWO) 2scoops whey
(1300) 1/4 cup oats
1 tbs sug free strawberry preserves

meal4:6 oz 96%fat free ground beef patty
(1430)2 cups broccoli

meal5:2 cans tuna(in water)
(1730)10 spears asparagus

meal6:5oz chicken breast
(2000)1 cup 2% cottage cheese(good protein before bed)
2 tbsp natural peanut butter

notice theres no processed foods or cereal bars or anything like that in here.. all simple ingredients...

like i said u may get some better advice than what ive suggested but this has and is working very well for me.. i expect to be 18 pounds lighter tomorrow which will be the end of my 7th week on this diet.. that to me shows it works..

1 other thing: when u run a low carb diet u should do a refeed day every 14 days which is like a carb loading day.. mine will be tomorrow and i will eat 240g carbs(which happens to be the amt u are eating everyday) this will replenish glycogen stores as well as give ur metabolism a jolt..

good luck dude

[Bill_boy2005]

Thanks for the input 405. I moved a lot of the processed stuff out of the fridge and pantry. Had a baked sweet potato. A first for me. I will be working in balancing simple foods.

My next concern is my running. I am getting ready for a marathon in January, so I need to stay somewhat on carbs for the glycogen needs of the long runs.

Anyone else out there do marathons? I am by know means fast but I do love the long running.

[Blaz Kavlic]

Bill, 405 has listed a well structured diet there. Notice how he has concentrated his carbs around pre and post workout? When cutting, this is key. As the day goes on, he has minimised his carb intake and focused on his protein intake and as he has already done his workout for the day, so there is no need to be eating additional carbs if just kicking back at home. Again, simple ingredients, no fancy stuff, just a good nutritious diet that should assist well for weight loss providing training is spot on as well.

[--->>405<<---]

Hey bill.. Im no marathon runner .. I have run 11 miles before i dont presume to know the nutritional requirements of training for a marathon but it appears u only go on long runs on saturdays? If thats the case maybe u should load up on ur carbs on friday and sat morning(depending on what time u run) and leave the rest of ur week on a more low carb diet... Carbs seem to be the major factor involved when it comes to cutting bodyfat.. U have about 2 months until ur marathon.. If u could drop 15 lbs or so by then my guess is that ur time would decrease due to not having to lug the extra weight around.. I dont think u would need the extra carbs sunday thru thursday for a long run on saturday.. Maybe someone else on here can shed a little more light on the subject

[Bill_boy2005]

I will shoot for that on the next long run. I did my ten miler today and hit a wall around six miles. Definitely carb depleted at that point. May stuff myself with whole grain pasta before next weeks fifteen miler. Usually loading takes me a few days, but I will see how it pans out.

[Bill_boy2005]

Double posted

[--->>405<<---]

Welll ur a pretty big guy to be running that far

I had a buddy who ran for college and he could do multiple miles at 5:30 pace and i askd him wat he ate before a run and he said peanut butter and jelly sandwich... Not good for ur diet obviously but if u burn it all off maybe?? Someone else would be better to answer that.. He was also like 10% bf all the time.. The main prob would be insulin spike from jelly...

[Bill_boy2005]

Yeah, I am not the "average" runners build 6'4" 240+ doesnt win a lot of races, but I still love the running. Just gets expensive on the shoe side of the sport. Around 250 miles per pair before they give up.

[--->>405<<---]

Hey man dont get me wrong i wasnt saying u shouldnt run i think its great if u get enjoyment.. I used to run 4miles/day 5 days /week and back then i was 5'8" 215 lbs(not a runners build either).. Was just making an observation... Prob not too many guys ur size that can run that far is how i meant it i would get frustrated cuz i couldnt figure out how i could run 20 miles a week and still be fat.. DIET was definitely part of it if not most of it as well as having 349 total test/7.3 free didnt help.. The other part i think is that i was running for 35 mins in the middle of my day after eating 2 meals and didnt understand how cardio timing affected wt loss... Now i realize esp for myself and prob alot of others its most effective first thing in am esp considering i havent consumed any major carbs since 1300 the previous day i would like to do a marathon one day though...

[Bill_boy2005]

Big thing on running is putting the miles in, even if they're slow. Have to build up to it just like anything.

I knew what you meant, and there aren't a lot of people which run at this weight.

And thanks a ton for the help.

[--->>405<<---]

sure thing..

[Bill_boy2005]

Starting day three of a cleaner diet. Really struggling to eat enough throughout the day to get around my caloric requirements. My carbs are still a little higher, but they are all cleaner with low gly***ic sources. Bee interesting to see where I am at the end of week one.

[Bill_boy2005]

So today

530 2 eggs 4 egg whites, chicken sausage, fat free cheese omlette

830 2slices 45 Cal bread 3.5 oz tuna

1130 chicken breast, romaine lettuce nd olive oil dressing

130 carb concious protein bar

430 chicken breast and brown rice

700 PWO 2 scoop protein shake, glutamine, dgc carbs

830 7oz sirloin and broccoli

10 casein protein shake

I really struggle to eat enough, especially if I dont eat the protein shakes.

[Back In Black]

Billy, what are the macro's for these meals?

What days do you run and how many miles on each of these days.

Training for a marathon and gaining lean mass is kinda impossible. Don't wanna rain on your parade but just trying to keep your expectations where they should be.

On the plus side you do have some shape so whittling down the bf will make you look pretty good and make the running alot easier.

[Bill_boy2005]

Billy, what are the macro's for these meals?

What days do you run and how many miles on each of these days.

Training for a marathon and gaining lean mass is kinda impossible. Don't wanna rain on your parade but just trying to keep your expectations where they should be.

On the plus side you do have some shape so whittling down the bf will make you look pretty good and make the running alot easier.

I use myfitnesspal to track, here are all the numbers.

Protein-175
Fat-67
Carbs-132
Total Cal-1771

No where near enough food, but I am staying full all day and had to force down supper. Subconciously the bloat that came with starting TRT probably has me not wanting to eat more. I am up about about 10# in just under two weeks. Feel like a toad.

[Back In Black]

Billy can you break the macro's down for the individual meals rather than totals. If we have this it will make it easier to make adjustments.

HAve you asked your physician to give you something for the bloat?

Can you also advise re: the running q's I asked.

[Bill_boy2005]

So today

530 2 eggs 4 egg whites, chicken sausage, fat free cheese omlette
266 cal, 2carbs, 14 fat, 34 protein

830 2slices 45 Cal bread 3.5 oz tuna
165, 19, 2, 22

1130 chicken breast, romaine lettuce nd olive oil dressing
290, 9, 10, 43

130 carb concious protein bar
190, 13, 9, 15

430 chicken breast and brown rice
445, 57, 8, 46

700 PWO 2 scoop protein shake, glutamine, dgc carbs
250, 12, 4, 42

830 7oz sirloin and broccoli
500, 31, 21, 51

10 casein protein shake
100, 2, 1, 24

I really struggle to eat enough, especially if I dont eat the protein shakes.

Added them in above, calories, carbs, fat, protein on the rows. I was leavign a meal off of myfitnesspal. Found it and added it for the totals.
2206 cal, 145 carbs, 69 fat, 277 protein

Thanks for looking at it.

[Bill_boy2005]

Billy can you break the macro's down for the individual meals rather than totals. If we have this it will make it easier to make adjustments.

HAve you asked your physician to give you something for the bloat?

Can you also advise re: the running q's I asked.

And on the running, 5 days a week around 3 miles, one long run a week of 5-15 miles.

And I definately understand that mass and marathon dont go hand in hand. Thats why I am trying to balance my diet to allow me to run, but to also try to build a little muscle till this marathon in January. After that I am going to focus on the gym and lay off the long runs some. I do know running fasted and with the lower than my normal carb intake I have added nearly a minute per mile to my running time.

[Back In Black]

Very quickly, the new daily cals/macro's look much better!

Fat maybe a little high and you could stand to lose 15g from that figure. Lose 10 or sog from that 8 30 meal. In that meal where do 31g carbs come from? If it's brocoli I'd check your figures.

Lose an egg yolk from breakfast and I'd add some oats in here too.

Up the protein by 10-15g in meal 2. Bread is not a great choice and won't help with the bloat. If you can, I'd drop it for some veg.

Go ahead and finish your protein bars but in reality you want 30-40g protein here. From a shake if it needs to be convenient or a lean meat/fish source. Add a small apple or such like.

PWO add some carbs in here get it up to 40g. I'd suggest from oats (powdered if you like).

Rework something with those suggestions and I'll take a look. But it won't be til Monday I'm afraid. Hopefully it should look something like 55g fat, 180g-200g carbs and 250-300g pro.

BTW I wouldn't personally train delts the day after pecs, I'd want a day inbetween at least to give the triceps time to recover.

[Bill_boy2005]

Very quickly, the new daily cals/macro's look much better!

Fat maybe a little high and you could stand to lose 15g from that figure. Lose 10 or sog from that 8 30 meal. In that meal where do 31g carbs come from? If it's brocoli I'd check your figures.

Lose an egg yolk from breakfast and I'd add some oats in here too.

Up the protein by 10-15g in meal 2. Bread is not a great choice and won't help with the bloat. If you can, I'd drop it for some veg.

Go ahead and finish your protein bars but in reality you want 30-40g protein here. From a shake if it needs to be convenient or a lean meat/fish source. Add a small apple or such like.

PWO add some carbs in here get it up to 40g. I'd suggest from oats (powdered if you like).

Rework something with those suggestions and I'll take a look. But it won't be til Monday I'm afraid. Hopefully it should look something like 55g fat, 180g-200g carbs and 250-300g pro.

BTW I wouldn't personally train delts the day after pecs, I'd want a day inbetween at least to give the triceps time to recover.

Thank you for your time. I will work on this and have it back up for review. Its helping that I am precooking some of my food now. Keeping good food at my desk at work is helping as well.

I will rework the lifting schedule too. I notice my tri's are the first thing to fatigue on shoulder nights in some exercises. That makes a lot of sense.

[Bill_boy2005]

0530 1 whole egg, 4 egg whites, 1/4 cup green peppers and onions, 2 oz turkey sausage 1/2 cup oats
446 cal, 27 carbs, 12 fat, 46 protein

0830 ISO-100 Protein Shake(normally trying to keep it away from shakes, but the fact is my schedule dont always allow it, either chicken or tuna at this meal in rotation with shakes)
106, 0, 0, 25

1130 4 oz 93% lean hb patty, 1/4 cup brown rice, 1.5 cups lettuce, 2tbsp Kraft Olive Feta Dressing
400, 38, 14, 37

1430 6.5 OZ albacor tuna
210, 3, 6, 42

1700 5oz chicken breast, baked sweet potato
253, 24, 4, 27

1830 Post WO Protein Shake ON Platinum Hydro Builder, 1/2 cup oats
330, 35, 6, 35

2000 5 oz chicken breast 1/4 cup brown rice
405, 45, 3, 46

2200 1 cup cottage cheese fat free
160, 10, 0, 30

Total 2310 cal, 182 carbs, 45 fat, 288 protein

Still need to work on the fat and probably pushing it on the carbs. Guessing removing the hamburger in favor of fish or chicken will hep there.

[--->>405<<---]

0530 1 whole egg, 4 egg whites, 1/4 cup green peppers and onions, 2 oz turkey sausage 1/2 cup oats
266 cal, 2 carbs, 14 fat, 34 protein

0830 ISO-100 Protein Shake(normally trying to keep it away from shakes, but the fact is my schedule dont always allow it, either chicken or tuna at this meal in rotation with shakes)
106, 0, 0, 25

1130 4 oz 93% lean hb patty, 1/4 cup brown rice, 1.5 cups lettuce, 2tbsp Kraft Olive Feta Dressing
400, 38, 14, 37

1430 6.5 OZ albacor tuna
210, 3, 6, 42

1700 5oz chicken breast, baked sweet potato
253, 24, 4, 27

1830 Post WO Protein Shake ON Platinum Hydro Builder, 1/2 cup oats
330, 35, 6, 35

2000 5 oz chicken breast 1/4 cup brown rice
405, 45, 3, 46

2200 1 cup cottage cheese fat free
160, 10, 0, 30

Total 2130 cal, 157 carbs, 47 fat, 276 protein

Still need to work on the fat and probably pushing it on the carbs. Guessing removing the hamburger in favor of fish or chicken will hep there.

id check that figure again ...

[Bill_boy2005]

id check that figure again ...

Ok, I see it. The breakfast. Spreadsheet formula was wrong. Fixing it now. Thanks.

[Back In Black]

I think your macro's are pretty good. You certainly don't have too much fat or protein. Up to you on the carbs really, maybe 40g meal 1, pre and post workout and then other meals carbs only from fibrous green veg.

On your weekend day of the big run add some extra carbs in the meal or 2 before it.

[Bill_boy2005]

I think your macro's are pretty good. You certainly don't have too much fat or protein. Up to you on the carbs really, maybe 40g meal 1, pre and post workout and then other meals carbs only from fibrous green veg.

On your weekend day of the big run add some extra carbs in the meal or 2 before it.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. I will start a progress log with pictures soon. I have been following the diet very close.

[Bill_boy2005]

One day from my half marathon. Im down 7#. I switch to mostly carbs today through tomorrow. Then back to normal Monday after getting glycogen stores back to full post run.,

[--->>405<<---]

good luck bill!

[Bill_boy2005]

- GAL -->

[gearbox]

great job, that is fast...

[Bill_boy2005]

great job, that is fast...

Thanks. No where near the elite runners. But being a fat ass 3 years ago that couldn't run a 1/4 mile I am happy. Really enjoy the running. Just wish my knees were in better shape.

[Bill_boy2005]

Diet is going well. Measured out at 17.5% bf at 236#. Fat is getting thin on all areas except my abs, which are reducing, but behind pace compared to the rest of the measurement areas. Due to the half marathon I am slow on cardio for a couple weeks, but am back to running now. Have to give my knees a break post race pace runs. But had dropped about 600 cal a day this week to keep that in check. Need to get a few pictures up here. Need a good before photo to start.

[Bill_boy2005]

Had asked a question in the workout section, but the thread has gathered dust and went unanswered, so I will try here.

I am now doing fasted cardio as often as I can. What, if any, nutrition or supplement should I have prior to starting cardio? Assuming possibly BCAA's?

Also, post fasted cardio should I wait a period if time to eat to allow for consumption of fat to continue as ling as possible or should I eat right away?

[--->>405<<---]

Bcaa for sure bill.. Green tea and caffeine ive seen recommended on here as well to mobilize fat cells.. Post fasted cardio u wanna get some protein in ya as soon as u can to prevent catabolism.. I try to eat while im still sweating.. 1egg,5whites and 1/4 c oats..