First post. Diet advice or suggestions

[thedawg]

Hi Guys,

This is my first post but firstly let me say great site, I’ve been having a look around a few threads over the past day or so and you guys all seem really helpful so I decided to sign up to the site and see if I can benefit from your experience.

Basically I’m looking for some feedback on my diet and how I can improve it with the goal of consistent lean muscle gains, however I’ll provide a little background information about me first.

I started lifting around 2 years ago at around 130lbs (and really bad condition - with a bit of a belly believe it or not), I had about 11.5 inch biceps and just over 5ft 8 tall. In my first year or so training I was quite ignorant of diet, I believed I had to just eat and eat to put on weight and I ate pretty much everything, some good and a lot bad as well as the usual whey protein supplements and creatine. After about a year of training I found myself at 168lbs with 14 inch biceps however I had developed a large stomach (roughly 33 waist). I would say at this point I was consuming in the region of 2600-2800 calories per day.

Since then I’ve given a bit more thought to my appearance, diet and training and over the last 6 months or so I’ve gradually altered my diet and introduced light cardio in order to slowly burn off the fat at a rate of about 0.5-1b of bodyweight per week. I am currently 142lbs with 13 inch biceps and about a 28 inch waist. I consume around 1900 calories on a workout day and about 1400 on a non-training day (This has been tapered down over time). I’m not too sure on my bodyfat however I can see a slight outline of abs and I would say I am leaner than I was when I was 130 with the belly. I’m obviously still not happy with this however I feel like I at least have something to build on and would like to try and do so in the best way possible.

The following is my typical diet on a training day (Non training days exclude Pre and postworkout carbs and slight re-order):

Meal 1 (8am):

50g oats

1 scoop whey protein in water

Meal 2 (12noon):

50g Pasta (no sauce)

70g Chicken Breast

Meal 3 (3pm):

1 Scoop Whey Protein in water

Meal 4 (6pm):

1 scoop whey protein in water

50g oats

Meal 5 (PostWorkout)

2 scoops Whey Protein in water

50g Maltodextrin

Meal 6 (9.30-10pm)

110g chicken (or equivalent beef, turkey, fish)

35g of carbs – usually Potatoes, sometimes rice, pasta

100g veggies

Meal 7 (12pm)

300g Cottage Cheese

This totals out at around:

Protein – 225g (46%)

Carbs – 205g (42%)

Fat – 25g (12%)

And on non-training days:

Protein – 170g (52%)

Carbs – 125g (37%)

Fat – 20g (11%)

I’m looking for any suggestions for improvement to my diet for making lean muscle gains. I’m considering increasing my calories by roughly 200cals per day until I hit a plateau then increase again. Any thoughts on this? Also how about my Macros as well as what I am eating? My main concerns in the diet are that I take too many whey protein shakes (mainly due to work) as well as a lack of fruit in my diet and also carbs at night (not sure if the negative stories surrounding this are myths). Any thoughts/suggestions in this department? (Woukd a blend of whey and casein be better?) Would I be better subbing out whey protein for another type of shake if I can’t manage any other whole foods? Also is whey the best thing to take in the morning or would eggs be more beneficial?

Look forward to any advice

Cheers

[thedawg]

My diet surely cant be that good.

[Back In Black]

Not that good no, but I've seen much, much worse.

Firstly, welcome!

Secondly, do you know what your bodyfat is? If not I suggest you get it checked or post some pics so we know what we are dealing with.

Also can you list the macro's for the individual meals and advise where your workout fits into the day.

Finally, from where are you losing 500cals on non-workout days?

[thedawg]

Hi, thank you for your reply. Yes i can give you all that information. I'm not certain but i believe i'm in the 10-12% bodyfat range. I will post some pictures up when i can get on a computer rather than phone.

I can give the macros i am now on for each of my meals but please note i have now altered them a bit from my original post after reading a few threads on here. I workout between 7.30-8.30pm therefore have reduced the carbs in my second last (6th) meal of the day and put them into the first and 4th. I have also now decided to use a 50/50 split of oats and maltodextrin post wo. My macros are now (p/c/f):

1. 30/41/7 (whey protein, oats)
2. 24/36/2 (chicken and plain pasta)
3. 23/2/2 (whey protein)
4. 30/41/7 pre wo (whey protein and oats)
5. 45/4/4 post wo (whey protein and oats +maltodextrin)
6. 36/17/2 (chicken breast, potatoes or rice)
7. 28/13/2 (cottage cheese)

On non-training days meals 4 and 5 are removed and another protein shake is placed in between meals 6 and 7. This effectively removes oats from my pre- workout as well as the protein and carbs i take post workout. I also add the carbs removed from my pre workout shake into meal 2. The timing of these meals change a bit due to me having no training. Therefore on non training days i now have the following:

1. 30/41/7 ( whey protein and oats)
2. 25/45/3 (chicken and pasta)
3. 23/2/2 (whey protein)
4. 36/17/2 (chicken or similar protein with potatoes or rice)
5. 23/2/2 (whey protein)
6. 28/13/2 (cottage cheese)

Hopefully this helps with what you're looking for. From what ive read i think i need to look at changing to a protein blend or perhaps some whole protein sources and also try and increase my fats. However im interested to hear from those who have far better knowledge than myself.

Cheers

[thedawg]

Picture attached.

[gbrice75]

You're pretty damn lean bro. You don't need to overthink this IMO. Figure out your maintenance calories (via trial and error, NOT calculators and formulas), and eat a clean diet just a bit above maintenance. Your body doesn't require a huge caloric surplus to build muscle. i.e. 'the more, the better' doesn't apply in bodybuilding... unless you want to get fat.

Once you have your calories figured out, i'd opt for a 40/45/15 (P/C/F) macro split. If you start adding noticeable body fat, reduce carbs via carb cycling... i.e. incorporate low carb days on non-training days for instance, vs. eating exactly the same 7 days/week.

My .02

[thedawg]

Thanks gb, do you reckon 200 above maintenance per day is adequate? Im on an average of 1400-1500 at the moment. Im pretty certan im only very slightly below maintenance at that. I really just want to do things right this time and get a good grip on diet. its been a tough old slog getting rid of all the fat i piled on. I feel like i couldve been here a least 6 months ago.

[gbrice75]

Thanks gb, do you reckon 200 above maintenance per day is adequate? Im on an average of 1400-1500 at the moment. Im pretty certan im only very slightly below maintenance at that. I really just want to do things right this time and get a good grip on diet. its been a tough old slog getting rid of all the fat i piled on. I feel like i couldve been here a least 6 months ago.

200 above is a good starting point, but you'll need to monitor yourself closely and adjust as needed. Use all the tools at your disposal... scale, measurements, how clothes fit, how you look in the mirror... together these should give you a good idea of what your body is doing.

1400-1500 sounds low to me, but hey, I was cycling between 1500-1800 myself, so you could be pretty close.

I hear you on getting rid of the fat; I was 255lbs with a 40-42 inch waist at one point bro. The good thing is it's never too late, and now you look great... totally primed to start adding mass imo!!

[thedawg]

200 above is a good starting point, but you'll need to monitor yourself closely and adjust as needed. Use all the tools at your disposal... scale, measurements, how clothes fit, how you look in the mirror... together these should give you a good idea of what your body is doing.

1400-1500 sounds low to me, but hey, I was cycling between 1500-1800 myself, so you could be pretty close.

I hear you on getting rid of the fat; I was 255lbs with a 40-42 inch waist at one point bro. The good thing is it's never too late, and now you look great... totally primed to start adding mass imo!!

Lol getting on the scales defnitely wont be a problem, i've been doing it religiously for the past few months along with weekly measurements to monitor my cut progress.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback. Ill be looking to transition into a surplus in the next week or so. Would it be preferable to start this off by sticking with the same overall calories while adjusting the macros?

[tbody66]

How old are you? I like the look but think you would be happier bigger and stronger, post a pic with the legs and post your workout routine, also what specifically are you personally wanting to accomplish?

[thedawg]

Hey man, thanks.

I'm 29, and yeah i would like to be bigger and stronger however i dont want to be too big. I would say another 30lbs at similar bodyfat would be my ultimate goal.

I dont have any pictures including my legs at the minute other than a straight tensed quads shot which dont think is what you're looking for. My quads are however probably my strongest bodypart.

Weaknesses i can identify for building on are definitley my arms (mainly biceps) and shoulders. i want these bigger!

My routine is 2days per week and 3days every few weeks. (All i can manage and anytime i train more i dont feel right). My training is high intensity style similar to dorian yates with failure and forced reps on final sets. I try to work n the 8-10 rep range.

Typical back and shoulder session would be.

Deadlifts 3sets - final to failure
Pullups 2 sets - final to failure
Bb rows 2 sets - final to failure
Shrugs 3 sets - final to failure
Bb or db shoulder press 3 sets -final to failure.

I always hit abs as well on each workout with a variety of exercises and supersets.

Im considering introducing side raises more to work the side delts as shoulder width is lagging. (I had wide shoulders when fatter/heavier)

I also usually work chest and arms together and mix legs up with whatever bodypart feels fresh.

I can post up typical workouts for any of these bodyparts if it helps any.

Cheers

[gbrice75]

re: your question about calories/macros - adjusting macros won't make a difference in this case, at least nothing appreciable IMO. Start by adding a couple hundred calories. Re-evaluate, adjust as needed. Slow and steady is the way to go. A drastic increase could lead to unwanted (and unnecessary) fat gain.

[tbody66]

I'd like to see you hitting your bodyparts twice a week and would recommend you not using Dorian's style at your current body weight and composition. I'll help you design something to put on muscle and size to your lagging areas, also specifically designed to add mass to the easiest to add mass too bodyparts for your bulking/weight gaining goal accomplishment.

[thedawg]

re: your question about calories/macros - adjusting macros won't make a difference in this case, at least nothing appreciable IMO. Start by adding a couple hundred calories. Re-evaluate, adjust as needed. Slow and steady is the way to go. A drastic increase could lead to unwanted (and unnecessary) fat gain.

No problem, ill start out with just an increase in cals then. The reason i asked is because when i first started cutting i kept my calories the same and adjusted my macros to have less carbs and more protein and noticed after the first week of this that id dropped a tonne of weight (possibly due to carbs and water dropping) so i wondered if the reverse may be true when adjusting my macros back in the favour of carbs as well as an increase in calories.

[thedawg]

I'd like to see you hitting your bodyparts twice a week and would recommend you not using Dorian's style at your current body weight and composition. I'll help you design something to put on muscle and size to your lagging areas, also specifically designed to add mass to the easiest to add mass too bodyparts for your bulking/weight gaining goal accomplishment.

How would you suggest i get around to doing this? the real difficulty i have is that i only have 2 days sometimes 3 per week to train due to work and seeing my daughter the other days (i dont live with her) so its a tough schedule. Do you feel more volume in my training would be beneficial? I train hard and heavy every session and ache for days (even when i was eating lots)

[gbrice75]

No problem, ill start out with just an increase in cals then. The reason i asked is because when i first started cutting i kept my calories the same and adjusted my macros to have less carbs and more protein and noticed after the first week of this that id dropped a tonne of weight (possibly due to carbs and water dropping) so i wondered if the reverse may be true when adjusting my macros back in the favour of carbs as well as an increase in calories.

Ok I understand what you're saying now, wasn't so sure before.

Adjusting carbs down likely resulted in water loss as you said. Therefore bumping carbs and retaining more water really isn't doing anything for you but making you heavier on the scale... what's the point?

At the end of the day, calorie manipulation always going to be the biggest factor.

[tbody66]

If you are only hitting bodyparts once a week and they are sore until you work them again there is definitely some problem, whether it's in your lifting or your eating or your resting that is a problem. Muscles take anywhere from 48 - 96 hours to completely recover (depending on all the aforementioned variables) if your muscles are recovered and you are not training them you are missing growth opportunities, especially in a bulk phase.

[thedawg]

Ok I understand what you're saying now, wasn't so sure before.

Adjusting carbs down likely resulted in water loss as you said. Therefore bumping carbs and retaining more water really isn't doing anything for you but making you heavier on the scale... what's the point?

At the end of the day, calorie manipulation always going to be the biggest factor.

I think im getting a bit confused myself lol. Are you recommending that i keep my macro percentages the same as they are for now and just increase my overall calories? Then at a later stage adjust my macros to those you suggested in your earlier post?

Ill be adjusting my diet plan in the next week or so, really looking forward to getting some extra calories in

[thedawg]

If you are only hitting bodyparts once a week and they are sore until you work them again there is definitely some problem, whether it's in your lifting or your eating or your resting that is a problem. Muscles take anywhere from 48 - 96 hours to completely recover (depending on all the aforementioned variables) if your muscles are recovered and you are not training them you are missing growth opportunities, especially in a bulk phase.

Yeah id say about 4 days soreness is about right for my quads and back/traps following squats and deadlifts. Id say about 3 days on my chest following chest workouts. These are always worked on separate workouts. Arms, shoulders, lower legs only hurt for about a day or two.

I definitely hear what youre saying about missed opportunities but unfortunately i can only work with the days ive got available anyway so id need to figure a way of working weak parts more within that sort of schedule. Would you suggest a greater volume on certain exercises? Or perhaps arms and chest on separate days in order for tris to be worked directly and indirectly in the same week?

[tbody66]

It's not as much a volume question as an intensity question and it sounds to me as if it may even be overly thought out. There is a lot of validity to keeping it simple, especially in a mass building plan. The direct and indirect arm approach has some validity, but you should be hitting them directly in both instances. If you have particular days you are able to workout that might help me to better suggest a course of action.

[thedawg]

It's not as much a volume question as an intensity question and it sounds to me as if it may even be overly thought out. There is a lot of validity to keeping it simple, especially in a mass building plan. The direct and indirect arm approach has some validity, but you should be hitting them directly in both instances. If you have particular days you are able to workout that might help me to better suggest a course of action.

Yeah sure i can provide that. I pretty much always workout monday and wednesday. Im able to do a saturday now and again but i cant ever be certain with that. I gave a typical back/shoulder session earlier. A typical chest/ arm day would be similar to.

3 x bench press (mix up db and barbell)

2x incline db press

3 x db flyes

3 x dips

3 x db bicep curl or incline db curl or ez curl

2 x hammer curls

Again i progressively increase the weight on each set and the final set i always work to failure. I also do some abs with each session.

For a leg day i pretty much always do squats x3 i alternate between front and back each time i do them.

I also do hamstring curls x3 and calf raises x3. I sometimes throw in leg extensions or leg press depending on how theyre feeling. The rest of the leg session would normally be taken up with working another bodypart again.

[gbrice75]

I think im getting a bit confused myself lol. Are you recommending that i keep my macro percentages the same as they are for now and just increase my overall calories? Then at a later stage adjust my macros to those you suggested in your earlier post?

Ill be adjusting my diet plan in the next week or so, really looking forward to getting some extra calories in

lol sorry man. All I'm trying to convey is that calories in/calories out will make the biggest overall impact on a diet. Macro manipulation can make a difference to some extent, however it appears to do more for people who are already dialed in, diet wise. Hope this makes sense!

[thedawg]

lol sorry man. All I'm trying to convey is that calories in/calories out will make the biggest overall impact on a diet. Macro manipulation can make a difference to some extent, however it appears to do more for people who are already dialed in, diet wise. Hope this makes sense!

Haha no worries, i get you now and i appreciate the the feedback. Ill start on the surpkus calories next week and if i have aby qyestions as i go with it ill be sure to ask.

[tbody66]

Alternate these workouts everytime you can make it to the gym, if you go mon/wed you'll be fine if you get to make it on a saturday you will still be fine!

First:
Chest:
Flat Bench, warm-up sets, these should be three rep warm up sets with progressive weight until you reach your workout weight, then three sets of 8 - 12 reps, go to failure each time, go up in weight when you are hitting all three sets 12 or more reps
Incline Bench, no warm up sets here, your chest is warmed up from the flat bench, three workout sets, same rep range.
flat dumbell flyes - this is not a mass exercise, it is a stretching exercise, the weight does not matter, as a matter of fact it should be just heavy enough to help your arms get a full stretch at the bottom, too heavy and you can cause yourself damage, slow and controlled with a full stretch at the bottom and a pause, when you contract the muscle bring the weights as close together as possible without touching them, and then turn the pinkies in towards each other while feeling the middle of your chest come together.
Shoulders:
The front's of your shoulders have been thoroughly worked here, so we'll move onto the tops and rears.
Military press: sets and reps the same as the bench press, machine or barbell, depending on your gym
Dumbbell Shrugs. Pause at the top and bottom, straight up and down, don't roll your shoulders, put the tops of your shoulders into your ears, I like going progressively higher in poundages within the rep range until I can't properly perform the exercise.
Rear shoulder raises. Bend at the waist, pic a very...very...very...light weight, 5 lbs to start, lean over parallel with the ground with your knees bent and look in front of you at the wall/mirror, keeping your elbows locked and arms straight down in front of you raise them out to your sides with your pinkies up towards the ceiling. At the top of the movement you want them to be about 3 inches above your shoulders and even with your eyeballs, trust me, this hurts and is effective. 8-12 reps, pause at the top.
Triceps:
bodyweighted dips to failure, three sets
skull crushers, three sets 8-12 reps
Abs:
Crunches 3 sets 51 reps
Calves:
Toe Presses 3 sets 33 reps

Second:
Legs:
Squats: progressive warm up sets of 11 reps until workout weight, then three sets of 15 - 20 reps, same philosophy as the bench, go to failure, increase weight when you are performing over 20 reps for each of the three sets, when you add the weight it should drop you down to only being able to accomplish 15 reps on your last set.
Straight legged dead lifts super setted with standing calf raises or toe extensions, stiff legged deads should be done in the 15-20 rep range and calves should be done in sets of 21's, 7 toes in heels out, 7 heels in toes out and 7 straight on.
Back:
Deadlifts 3 sets 8-12 reps.
Lat Pull downs 3 sets 8-12 reps, followed by bent over barbell rows 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Biceps:
Straight bar curls, full range 3 sets 8-12 reps, concentration curls 3 sets 8-12 reps

[thedawg]

Thank you for doing that t.

After reading it I have a few general questions. You recommend working out 3 sets to failure, is this what you were meaning in terms of intensity? Is 3 sets to failure something a lot of lifters typically do or is this simply to do with the fact that I can only sometimes manage 2 workouts per week? I don’t think I’ve even witnessed many people training even 1 set to failure so I thought my training was intense lol.

Also you advise working 8-12 reps in the three sets until the 3 rd set hits the 12 reps. I’m assuming this is using the same weight for all 3 sets? And just to check with you that I’ve got this.…when the time comes that the third set hits 12 reps, this would mean that I’d be pushing out at least a good 15+ reps on the first set of that weight?

Finally just out of interest, how would you modify this if I were able to consistently workout 3 days per week. Say Mon/Weds/Sat

Thanks for the input.

[tbody66]

First things first, the failure referred to here is "temporary muscle failure" not, complete or total muscle failure. It might be hard for me to explain, but I'll try. If you are lifting your weight, let's say on bench press, and you are using a 2.0.1 tempo(two second lower, touch the chest for a zero second pause, and a one second press to lock out), and you are clicking along for your set and half way up on your 11th rep the weight sticks for a fraction of a second. What has happened is your muscle group failed and your body had to recruit different muscle tissue in order to provide for your safety. It won't be like you think it will be that you will be able to crank out twenty reps on your first set in order to do thirteen on your last, if that is the case there is something major wrong with your training program . For instance I load 225lbs on the bar for my bench press workout after warm-up, on the first set I get 9 reps, on the second set I get 9 reps and on the third set I only get 8 reps. Now I stick with this weight week in and week out until on the first set I'm hitting 15 reps, on the second 14 and on the third 13. Then I would add 20lbs to my bench press and it should drop me back down into the previous rep range, I stick with that until the same thing occurs. It would look as if I am progressing in either reps or weight almost every single week.

I would recommend this program for you for two months solid no matter whether you lift twice a week or three times a week or twice some and three times others. You should accomplish everything you want to by alternating these workouts during that time frame. After the two months I would look at changing up a few of the exercises and lowering your rep range to work with some heavier poundages.

[thedawg]

Yeah i think i follow this. Basically at the point where the movement isn't smooth and starts to 'judder' or 'shake' ie requires that extra bit of push?, the bit where i would normally force another 4-5 reps until i cant do another, this is where i stop? i do this for all 3 sets yes? And the same would apply to all major lifts such as deadlifts? I normally find myself sticking a bit here at the straighten/lock out part of the lift.

[tbody66]

Yes, that's it exactly. On the last set of the major lifts only you can go to complete failure, the point where your spotter has to lift the weight off of you, but not on every lift and not on every set.

[thedawg]

Yes, that's it exactly. On the last set of the major lifts only you can go to complete failure, the point where your spotter has to lift the weight off of you, but not on every lift and not on every set.

Awesome man, i've got it now. Thanks for all your input!

[JohnnyVegas]

Good info. I enjoyed reading the exercise plan, I don't see enough of that here.

Nothing valuable to add, other than "great thread guys."

[thedawg]

Good info. I enjoyed reading the exercise plan, I don't see enough of that here.

Nothing valuable to add, other than "great thread guys."

The guys here really know their stuff and are pretty damn helpful to everyone. Kinda got hooked on the various nutrition threads and picked up so much useful info from only about a week or so on the forum.

[SlimmerMe]

Stopping by to say....keep up the good work~

[tbody66]

Good info. I enjoyed reading the exercise plan, I don't see enough of that here.

Nothing valuable to add, other than "great thread guys."

I used to hang out in the workout section or the members pic section, but I find that the most serious people about making a true transformation in their body are here in the diet section, I personally think all three of them (workout/diet/pictures) should all be combined, but don't know how to make that happen.

[thedawg]

Alternate these workouts everytime you can make it to the gym, if you go mon/wed you'll be fine if you get to make it on a saturday you will still be fine!

First:
Chest:
Flat Bench, warm-up sets, these should be three rep warm up sets with progressive weight until you reach your workout weight, then three sets of 8 - 12 reps, go to failure each time, go up in weight when you are hitting all three sets 12 or more reps
Incline Bench, no warm up sets here, your chest is warmed up from the flat bench, three workout sets, same rep range.
flat dumbell flyes - this is not a mass exercise, it is a stretching exercise, the weight does not matter, as a matter of fact it should be just heavy enough to help your arms get a full stretch at the bottom, too heavy and you can cause yourself damage, slow and controlled with a full stretch at the bottom and a pause, when you contract the muscle bring the weights as close together as possible without touching them, and then turn the pinkies in towards each other while feeling the middle of your chest come together.
Shoulders:
The front's of your shoulders have been thoroughly worked here, so we'll move onto the tops and rears.
Military press: sets and reps the same as the bench press, machine or barbell, depending on your gym
Dumbbell Shrugs. Pause at the top and bottom, straight up and down, don't roll your shoulders, put the tops of your shoulders into your ears, I like going progressively higher in poundages within the rep range until I can't properly perform the exercise.
Rear shoulder raises. Bend at the waist, pic a very...very...very...light weight, 5 lbs to start, lean over parallel with the ground with your knees bent and look in front of you at the wall/mirror, keeping your elbows locked and arms straight down in front of you raise them out to your sides with your pinkies up towards the ceiling. At the top of the movement you want them to be about 3 inches above your shoulders and even with your eyeballs, trust me, this hurts and is effective. 8-12 reps, pause at the top.
Triceps:
bodyweighted dips to failure, three sets
skull crushers, three sets 8-12 reps
Abs:
Crunches 3 sets 51 reps
Calves:
Toe Presses 3 sets 33 reps

Second:
Legs:
Squats: progressive warm up sets of 11 reps until workout weight, then three sets of 15 - 20 reps, same philosophy as the bench, go to failure, increase weight when you are performing over 20 reps for each of the three sets, when you add the weight it should drop you down to only being able to accomplish 15 reps on your last set.
Straight legged dead lifts super setted with standing calf raises or toe extensions, stiff legged deads should be done in the 15-20 rep range and calves should be done in sets of 21's, 7 toes in heels out, 7 heels in toes out and 7 straight on.
Back:
Deadlifts 3 sets 8-12 reps.
Lat Pull downs 3 sets 8-12 reps, followed by bent over barbell rows 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Biceps:
Straight bar curls, full range 3 sets 8-12 reps, concentration curls 3 sets 8-12 reps

T


I’ve been trying your workouts and becoming a bit frustrated in doing so as I’m completely unsure if I’m executing them properly. I have a few questions regarding these workouts if you don’t mind taking the time to answer them.

With regards to the 3 rep warm up sets, these should be gradually increased in weight until I reach my working set weight so does this mean that when I’m executing the 3 warm up sets they should feel really very easy to do so and not challenging in any way? For example on a deadlift should I do the bar x3, 1plate/side x3, 2 plates/side x3 and then 3 plates/side x3 for my 3 working sets each in the 8-12 rep range? It just feels a bit like the warm ups are nothing at all and too easy, is this okay or should my warm ups be close in weight to my work sets?

Secondly, another problem I am really having is with identifying this point of ‘temporary’ muscle failure in the first two working sets, I am so used to taking one working set to complete failure that this has caused me problems. The following questions constantly play on my mind during the first two working sets ‘was that rep a struggle?’, ‘did that rep recruit some other muscle groups to complete the rep?’, ‘was that temporary muscle failure?’ etc etc. By thinking about whether that rep was failure or not is kind of putting me off balance with my exercise focus. There are certain exercises where temporary muscle failure is easily identifiable for me such as barbell rows, military press however on most others I just can’t tell when I should be dropping the weight and saying ok the sets over let alone use it as a basis for comparison in the next workout.

Also which exercises should I push to complete total muscular failure? Only the main compound lifts? Or perhaps on one final set of one exercise per bodypart? I’m weary of over or undertraining. Something i noticed when i went to deadlift was that my traps were still really sore from the previous workout.

Finally with the ab and calf work you indicate set reps. Do I just hit these reps for each set and then stop every time? Also I couldn’t work out if you meant all sets to failure on dips…this is what I did anyway but wasn’t sure if this was too much.

It would be useful if you had any links to videos of this type of training so that I could have a look for myself.Your input to this thread is much appreciated mate.

[tbody66]

T


I’ve been trying your workouts and becoming a bit frustrated in doing so as I’m completely unsure if I’m executing them properly. I have a few questions regarding these workouts if you don’t mind taking the time to answer them.

With regards to the 3 rep warm up sets, these should be gradually increased in weight until I reach my working set weight so does this mean that when I’m executing the 3 warm up sets they should feel really very easy to do so and not challenging in any way? For example on a deadlift should I do the bar x3, 1plate/side x3, 2 plates/side x3 and then 3 plates/side x3 for my 3 working sets each in the 8-12 rep range? It just feels a bit like the warm ups are nothing at all and too easy, is this okay or should my warm ups be close in weight to my work sets?
Sorry, that should read three 11 rep warm-up sets.
Secondly, another problem I am really having is with identifying this point of ‘temporary’ muscle failure in the first two working sets, I am so used to taking one working set to complete failure that this has caused me problems. The following questions constantly play on my mind during the first two working sets ‘was that rep a struggle?’, ‘did that rep recruit some other muscle groups to complete the rep?’, ‘was that temporary muscle failure?’ etc etc. By thinking about whether that rep was failure or not is kind of putting me off balance with my exercise focus. There are certain exercises where temporary muscle failure is easily identifiable for me such as barbell rows, military press however on most others I just can’t tell when I should be dropping the weight and saying ok the sets over let alone use it as a basis for comparison in the next workout.
For simplification purposes here then perform your first two sets to the top end of the assigned rep range and the last set to complete failure. For example if I am doing bench press with 185lbs for my three sets for a range of 8-12, I do the first to sets to 12 and stop, I do the last set to complete failure, if I do more than 12 reps the weight was too light, if I do less than 8 it was too heavy.
Also which exercises should I push to complete total muscular failure? Only the main compound lifts? Or perhaps on one final set of one exercise per bodypart? I’m weary of over or undertraining. Something i noticed when i went to deadlift was that my traps were still really sore from the previous workout.
The above mentioned explanation should address this failure issue, you will basically be going to complete failure on the last set of each lift, with this set range and the few number of exercises per bodypart, along with the lifting schedule, you should not be in danger of over or under training. I sould be lead to believe that the sore traps is a new thing due to some exercises that you aren't familiar with, or it could be a weaker area for you overall.
Finally with the ab and calf work you indicate set reps. Do I just hit these reps for each set and then stop every time? Also I couldn’t work out if you meant all sets to failure on dips…this is what I did anyway but wasn’t sure if this was too much.
You can go to failure on the last set of abs and calves. All sets to failure on the dips, the logic here is simple, by this time of the workout you should be totally loose and almost completely fatigued, with bodyweight only and using an exercise that involves chest/shoulders and triceps you should just be topping everything off and in no danger of injury
It would be useful if you had any links to videos of this type of training so that I could have a look for myself.Your input to this thread is much appreciated mate.
I'll look for some instructional video links to recommend for you.

I'll always be happy to clear up anything I can. I am looking forward to seeing how you progress with your goals.

[thedawg]

I'll always be happy to clear up anything I can. I am looking forward to seeing how you progress with your goals.

Lol awesome T, that clarifies it a bit more now, I was feeling a bit silly lifting light-ish weight for sets of 3

With the sore traps issue, none of the exercises are new to me other than military press so it may well be this. However soreness is normal with me for a few days, I think it was more to do with working an area again (with deadlift – which hits my traps hard) that is still sore from something in the previous workout. My previous routine sort of prevented from this happening on major lifts.

So to clarify some other points, warm ups should also only be required for the first exercise for a bodypart? i.e. Flat Bench only for chest, military press for shoulders, barbell curls only for biceps etc. The following exercises can get straight into the work sets? Final set of each exercise to all out failure?

Sorry for all the questions, It’s just good to have some confidence in what I’m doing which in turn leads to greater focus.

[tbody66]

I actually think that your shoulders don't need warmed up again after bench, and your triceps are already warm from chest and shoulder work. Also if you are on back day after back work your biceps are already warm as well.

On another note(about light warm-up sets) Poliquin wrote an article about warming up stating that most weight lifters wear themselves out on warm-ups and suggests that we only need to tell the body the range of motion we are taking it through and the speed at which we are doing so. When I am in my mass/strengthl building phase I use this approach, for example: I am looking to add to my max on bench press, my workout on flat bench would be as follows: 45lbs 4reps, 45lbs 4reps, 135lbs 3reps, 225lbs 2reps, 275lbs 1rep, 1 rep for whatever my max attempt is for the day, add 40-50lbs and perform one negative rep (7 seconds lowering), then drop down to my workout weight for my three working sets. So don't knock the light warm-up approach, it can be very affective and leave your strength for the workout, not the warm up.

[thedawg]

Thanks mate. Yeah its kind of the approach i used to use. for warm ups i just used these previously to get the blood pumping with a moderate weight set added in prior to my failure sets. The big difference for me with your programme is that im using my woking (failure set) weight for two sets prior to the very last one also.

[tbody66]

That's correct. It will make you grow and when that stops being affective, we'll change it up!

[thedawg]

With the dips t, is it definitely okay to do do 3 failure sets of these prior to the skullcrushers?