diet questions before clen cycle

[joshh]

hi guys

decided to give clen a shot because i have hit a plateau that i haven't been able to bust for months. i'm currently on a dirty keto diet, bacon, cheese, sausage, eggs etc. i'm on a 2100 cal 70/30% fat/protein split, 150g protein/170g fat.
my stats are:
5'9
167lbs
15% BF
BMR: 2104
TDEE: 3629

would it be okay to stay on this diet whilst on a cycle of clen? or should it be tweaked/changed?

cheers

[gbrice75]

tbh bro, at 15% bodyfat, clen is hardly gonna be a game changer. Just didn't want you going in with unrealistic expectations and then being let down. I've been there!

[baseline_9]

I don't like the food choices or the macro breakdown...

If I was to do a keto diet the macros would be about 50/50..

I get u at about

2130 cals
266p
118f


I would shoot around that point and clean the diet up a bit.... Stick to healthy choices... Quality meats, healthy fats

Keto is not an excuse to eat crap

[baseline_9]

tbh bro, at 15% bodyfat, clen is hardly gonna be a game changer. Just didn't want you going in with unrealistic expectations and then being let down. I've been there!

Agreed...

I think it is probably better once you get below 10% and start to really struggle.

[joshh]

well the only reason i'm doing it dirty is because it's hard to get that much fat (~170g) eating healthy fats, and i'm doing 70/30 is because i previously did a 50/50 but i did not see results. i did some research and i came the the conclusion that the excess protein would have been converted to glucose for energy? anyway if you suggest going back to 50/50 i can definitely do that and i could go back to healthy fats as 120g is easier.

gbrice; i'm not sure what to do then, because i have been at this plateau for months and have tried many things; mitrotropin, keto, IF and even keto + IF together but i can't bust through.

i currently lift on an empty stomach in the morning with bcaa's, glutamine + caffeine. after lifting i do 45mins of low intensity cardio then i have my first of 5 meals. at night i will do another 60 mins low intensity cardio after my last meal of the day.
only resorting to clen as i feel i have tried it all..

[Papiriqui]

Why are you lifting plus cardio fasted!? Even though you are taking bcaa and glutamine you would see far better results by eating complex carbs with some protein source like egg whites!!

[joshh]

Why are you lifting plus cardio fasted!? Even though you are taking bcaa and glutamine you would see far better results by eating complex carbs with some protein source like egg whites!!

Because my primary goal is to cut fat and it works for me without the loss of muscle. i'd like different views on this this aswell

[Papiriqui]

Because my primary goal is to cut fat and it works for me without the loss of muscle. i'd like different views on this this aswell

Fair enough, as long as you dont lose precious lbm is okay i guess!! How are you feeling strength wise? I used to drink no xplode along w/ creatine, bcaa, glutamine and i added as well brown rice and eggs. Now i take everything and still drop bf, just my .02 cents

[joshh]

i feel fine strength wise. i know it would be best to incorporate carbs into my diet, however for now, fat loss is my main goal and keto is helping me achieve that faster

[Back In Black]

i feel fine strength wise. i know it would be best to incorporate carbs into my diet, however for now, fat loss is my main goal and keto is helping me achieve that faster

Haven't you hit a plateau months ago? How long have you been running keto? Btw, healthy fats are easier to consume than unhealthy fats, you can drink olive oil/fish oil etc.

Your pics in the transformation challenge thread where you hit 10%, is that not recent? How did you get to that level?

[V-ROID]

Did you have a higher BF% for years and drop down to 15% recently? If so it's tough once you get down to around 15. Have you tried eating loads of spinach, broccoli, asparagus, etc. and ditching all of the greasy bacon and sausage? I understand keto/Atkins but I consider it is a diet cop out. Maybe people think it is easier because they get to eat loads of tasty bacon? Lots of people try it, some have great results, but I think most successful dieters find it a stepping stone and move on to healthier methods. Not bashing or wanting to start a debate. Just curious what other diets you have explored?

[joshh]

Haven't you hit a plateau months ago? How long have you been running keto? Btw, healthy fats are easier to consume than unhealthy fats, you can drink olive oil/fish oil etc.

Your pics in the transformation challenge thread where you hit 10%, is that not recent? How did you get to that level?

have been running keto for ~6 months or so, changing it up here and there.
I hit 10% a while ago with the help of mitotropin, but I was not at that level for long because I went in for gyno surgery and couldn't lift for 6 weeks after and put it all back on again and lost muscle.

Did you have a higher BF% for years and drop down to 15% recently? If so it's tough once you get down to around 15. Have you tried eating loads of spinach, broccoli, asparagus, etc. and ditching all of the greasy bacon and sausage? I understand keto/Atkins but I consider it is a diet cop out. Maybe people think it is easier because they get to eat loads of tasty bacon? Lots of people try it, some have great results, but I think most successful dieters find it a stepping stone and move on to healthier methods. Not bashing or wanting to start a debate. Just curious what other diets you have explored?

i dropped around 15%BF. yes, I have tried many different diets, just basing carbs around my workouts and clean keto

[joshh]

anyway i think it's time for a new diet, maybe incorporating carbs around my workouts gbrice? or would clean keto still be beneficial for me?

[RaginCajun]

maybe look at it this way, maybe you need to pack on some more LBM to get to where you want to be. just a thought

[joshh]

well that's what i mean, maybe basing carbs around my workout only would help in the LBM department but overall still try and cut fat with calorie intake and cardio, waiting for gbrice to chime in

[joshh]

or maybe even complex carbs all throughout the day and very low fat? this is something i haven't done previously as i had in my mind that carbs = fat gains but i need to get my head around this!

[RaginCajun]

well that's what i mean, maybe basing carbs around my workout only would help in the LBM department but overall still try and cut fat with calorie intake and cardio, waiting for gbrice to chime in

that's what i was eluding to. they will get you sorted out, great transformation by the way!

[RaginCajun]

or maybe even complex carbs all throughout the day and very low fat? this is something i haven't done previously as i had in my mind that carbs = fat gains but i need to get my head around this!

i want to say that fireguy had a good thread on cycling carbs so you may want to look into this. can't remember what it exactly stated but search this forum for it, may have been this time last year.

[gbrice75]

I'm not a keto fan personally, however if you'd like to run a 'quasi'-keto diet, you should read up on Dave Palumbo's approach. He allows carbs around workouts.

Also, I agree with Baseline - I hate your macro breakdown, and Palumbo's approach will solve it. Also, healthy fats are VERY easy to eat - fish oil caps, natty PB/nuts, avocado, etc. Hell, a tbsp of EVOO is roughly 15g of fat!!

[joshh]

few questions. because it has been that long since i have based carbs around my workouts, if i start basing them around my workouts will i notice vast muscle gains? and if i were to eat clean complex carbs during the day and low fat, would i still be able to loose bodyfat if i stayed under maintenance calories? ultimately im asking if it's possible for me to eat clean carbs, gain muscle and loose fat at the same time

[joshh]

one more question.
if i do too much cardio, does that make my calorie deficit too much? Or can i do as much low intensity cardio and i want?

[gbrice75]

few questions. because it has been that long since i have based carbs around my workouts, if i start basing them around my workouts will i notice vast muscle gains?

Probably not

and if i were to eat clean complex carbs during the day and low fat, would i still be able to loose bodyfat if i stayed under maintenance calories?

Combined with a solid training and cardio regimen, I don't see why you wouldn't. Carbs aren't the enemy!

ultimately im asking if it's possible for me to eat clean carbs, gain muscle and loose fat at the same time

At the exact same time - no. But idk why you'd want to. Imo, choose a primary goal and focus on that while doing your best to maintain in the other area. In your case, commit to dropping the bodyfat while maintaining LBM - set a goal and define a timeframe - 12 weeks is popular. Once you're happy with your bodyfat, switch gears and focus on adding lean mass. I wasted 2 years trying to do both at the same time. It's just not very productive IMO.

[gbrice75]

one more question.
if i do too much cardio, does that make my calorie deficit too much? Or can i do as much low intensity cardio and i want?

No offense, but do you really need to ask this? Activity of any sort uses energy (calories)... so no, you cannot do cardio indiscriminately. Having said that, it would be very difficult to create a huge deficit with LIC just based on time and tolerance... I mean, how much could you really do before burning out? Shoot for an hour or so per day and you'll be fine.

[joshh]

i am currently doing 45 minutes LIC after my lifting and another 60 minutes at night, this should be okay?

okay so lifting fasted in the morning should be out of the picture? and would it be best for me to just have carbs pre, post and in my post meal? and not in my 2pm and 5.30pm meals?

[tall76]

If you have been stuck for 6+ months- try to change up ur diet. Maybe try a carb cycle type diet?? Don't think of carbs as bad- think of them like gasoline for an engine, but u don't want to overflow the gas tank and spill gas all over!!

[joshh]

so i guess we go back to my old diet?

8.00am - 60g oats 6/37/5/230 + whey 24/3/1/120 + 10g glutamine | 30/40/6/350
8.45am - 10g modern bcaa's + 300mg caffeine
9.00am - 60 minutes lifting
10.00am - 1.5 scoops vitargo 0/55/0/140 + whey 36/5/2/180 | 36/60/2/320
11.00am - 150g chicken breast 43/0/1/196, 125g brown rice 3/30/1/140 | 46/30/2/306
2.00pm - tuna 30/1/15/253 | 30/1/15/253
5.00pm - 150g chicken breast 43/0/1/196, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 15ml flaxseed oil 0/0/14/123 | 44/2/15/327
8.00pm - 200g 95/5 ground beef 43/0/10/260, 100g broccoli 3/4/0/34 | 46/4/10/294
8.45pm - 60 minutes cardio
total - 232/137/50/1850