** Cutting on junk food - Can it be done **

[baseline_9]

There is a poll but please discuss....


A Very broad discussion is welcome

[JimmySidewalk]

Define junk food more. What exactly are we talking about ?

[-KJ-]

Im not saying one cant lose weight but IMO it will be LBM.

Eating junk food will reek havoc on the metabolism. Junk food consists of refined carbs and sugar, which when eaten quickly raise blood sugar levels, leading to reduction in fat burning and increase in appetite thus eat more junk food.

[Gym_]

Not a chance in hell .... i cant even do it on fruit and complex carbs let alone junk

[Times Roman]

losing weight is just a function of being in caloric deficit mode

if you want those calories to be dirty or clean is up to you and your goals

[baseline_9]

Intresting to see diffrent opinions....


By junk food I'm talking... Pizza, pasta, chocolate, burgers, cheese etc......

Let's assume that macro goals are achieved each day.... Do you still think you can cud weight when also eating junk...

[baseline_9]

Pleas back up any statements with your opinions...

Don't just say no... I wanna know why u think what you think...

[Times Roman]

Intresting to see diffrent opinions....


By junk food I'm talking... Pizza, pasta, chocolate, burgers, cheese etc......

Let's assume that macro goals are achieved each day.... Do you still think you can cud weight when also eating junk...

absolutely

my buddy is a pro at eating those lean cuisine meals. he only counts calories and no attention to macros. and he's lost alot of weight.....

....which was his only goal.

But he has no muscularity to his body. He's a year younger than me, and doesn't work out, doesn't exercise. His only concern is if he can keep his younger GF happy in the sack, and apparently he's met that goal as well.

[JimmySidewalk]

In my opinion you can, but it will be harder. If you think about it, the ingridients that a pizza has for example are not that junk. Tomatoes, chicken(or some other type of meat), some sauces(ketchup, mayo and such are excluded) usually made from tomatoe, cheese etc. And you also get some carbs from the dough. I mean you probably eat those things separatly throughout the day anyway. If we're talking about fast food junk food, like nuggets, fries and such, The only problem i see is the excesevie oil that was probably used like a zilion times before change and maybe the fact that they usually get those products pre-cooked and frozen. But if you think about it, its still chicken, still potatoes etc. And the quality of those items is still the same you get from a supermarket, unless you buy "bio" which is a load of bullsh--in my opinion anyways.


And i would like to say another thing. Please think of Mariusz Pudzianowski's diet. He used to chug down truck loads of candy and chocolate to get the calories he needed, and we all know he was very nice cut at any given moment even though he was not a bb-er, but a strongman, and what a strongman he was.. So why wouldnt that be possible ? Of course you would also need chemical assistance(AAS, maybe slin), but its not imposible.

[baseline_9]

Good points jimmy

In my opinion you can, but it will be harder. If you think about it, the ingridients that a pizza has for example are not that junk. Tomatoes, chicken(or some other type of meat), some sauces(ketchup, mayo and such are excluded) usually made from tomatoe, cheese etc. And you also get some carbs from the dough. I mean you probably eat those things separatly throughout the day anyway. If we're talking about fast food junk food, like nuggets, fries and such, The only problem i see is the excesevie oil that was probably used like a zilion times before change and maybe the fact that they usually get those products pre-cooked and frozen. But if you think about it, its still chicken, still potatoes etc. And the quality of those items is still the same you get from a supermarket, unless you buy "bio" which is a load of bullsh--in my opinion anyways.


And i would like to say another thing. Please think of Mariusz Pudzianowski's diet. He used to chug down truck loads of candy and chocolate to get the calories he needed, and we all know he was very nice cut at any given moment even though he was not a bb-er, but a strongman, and what a strongman he was.. So why wouldnt that be possible ? Of course you would also need chemical assistance(AAS, maybe slin), but its not imposible.

[--->>405<<---]

i have no idea if u can cut with junk food or not.. my guess is it will be hard to hit proper protein macros without going over on carbs and fat.. i also think youll be alot hungrier cuz ull be eating less food.. and it will taste good which will make u want food more esp combined with the hunger...

one of the benefits of eating clean is u get to eat alot of food for the cals...

[baseline_9]

I'm going to look into designing a diet with plenty of the food 'you shouldn't eat'

It's going to be a challenge to get the macros to balance... However egg white will be a big help to up the protein content without adding any carbs or fats

I'm gonna plan a 2 meal per day diet this weekend with a 40 40 20 split and include as much junk as possible...

Obviously a lot of protein is going to have to come from whey and egg whites... But I shall see what I can think up


This could be a great experiment.... Looking forward to the pizza and lion bars already LOL

[-KJ-]

Maybe you can cut on junk but realistically it would surely take an awful long time. Some dedicated members would have there cut and bulk done in the time this was achieved

[RaginCajun]

here is an article that i found for you


http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html

[-KJ-]

After reading i may have a different insight now...

Does this not go against everything we do though?

[RaginCajun]

After reading i may have a different insight now...

Does this not go against everything we do though?

i would like to see before and after bloodwork. cannot be healthy long term

[baseline_9]

After reading i may have a different insight now...

Does this not go against everything we do though?

Yep it goes agains a lot of the bro science that floats around...

So does IF and eating carbs before bed.... However I believe this will work to a point.... I don't think you can get shredded like this...

Dorian Yates ate chocolate bars during his Olympia preps....


I may just go for this as an experiment... Not just yet...

[JimmySidewalk]

Go for it, i'm very curious how things will go.

[tbody66]

maybe some other factors involved, but I was lean...lean...lean all through high school and early twenties and ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted and most of the things you listed. I've always been a calorie in vs calorie out guy. Body needs to have enough testosterone to convert things properly so maybe that's why it seems different when you are young.

[-KJ-]

A big factor is portion control though... Thus eliminating eating whatever you want when you want

[gonnagethuge]

My buddy eats anything and everythin but at the usual planned intervals abd works out with a bit of cardio and looks awesome even eith poor genetics. It makes me think that people may worry and overthink things a bit 'bit too much' more than necessary sometimes. Saying that i still look to having a pretty good diet.

[SlimmerMe]

This will be an epic thread since WISHFUL THINKING for many.....

[-KJ-]

My buddy eats anything and everythin but at the usual planned intervals abd works out with a bit of cardio and looks awesome even eith poor genetics. It makes me think that people may worry and overthink things a bit 'bit too much' more than necessary sometimes. Saying that i still look to having a pretty good diet.

Consistency may be everything....

[gixxerboy1]

i think it depends on a starting part to. Can you cut from 20% to 15%. yes imo.
Can you go from 12%-8% i highly doubt it.

[jimmyinkedup]

Base -
Of course you can. I think if you hit your macros it then simply becomes cals in vs cals out.
The issue for me is not can u cut - the issue is overall health and nutrition. Whether we like it or not this is an unhealthy lifestyle - the body is put under constant stress. Add to that chemical assistance etc and it really is not a healthy lifestyle. There are more to micronutrients than vitamins - there are efa's , antioxidants, flavanoids and on and on and on. Even knowing you could cut on junk food i never saw the prudence in taking in empty calories from highly processed , nutritionally depleted , often sugar packed foods. Even though this is being touted as a recent development nutritonally speaking - it isnt. Its the oldest principle known as far as weight loss - cals in vs cals out.
I think nutrient timing is overstated and for the most part meaningless. I think meal frequency is meaningless. However IMO proper nutrition should never be overlooked. For you everyday person its important. For those placing their body under all the added stresses we do - its essential.

[SlimmerMe]

So.....I could have just counted and had fun chomping down in the process? Sounds too good to be true.....

[gbrice75]

I'm somewhat on the fence as my views have changed somewhat, but I believe it boils down to the 'you are what you eat' saying. If you can manage to eat junk, stay in a caloric deficit, and hit your macros (hitting protein will prove tricky, keeping fats and carbs in check even tricker, I believe you can lose fat to some degree. I also don't think you'd necessarily lose LBM, assuming a proper training routine is maintained. However, I don't believe you'd be very happy with the end result. I don't believe it'd be the nice hard physique that most of us desire when cutting. Furthermore, I believe it would be terribly inefficient (mainly due to sub par nutrients - i.e. processed crap, etc) process, and what could be done in 12 weeks might take double that time.

There's a reason the pro's eat clean. I'm sure people have tried this theory plenty of times in the past, and if there was something to it, it would have caught on by now.

So can it be done? I believe the answer is yes, to a degree. But why would anybody want less than the best?

[tbody66]

There are other health concerns involving this approach, but from a pure "weight loss" look it is possible. I don't know of anyone that would recommend it. Cheap fuel propels the engine, but it gums it up and has long term negative affects, use the cleanest fuel possible with the highest octain to extend the life and maximize the performance of your engine!

[gonnagethuge]

So.....I could have just counted and had fun chomping down in the process? Sounds too good to be true.....

Ive witnessed it working lol. Not just all junk but a lot of things that wouldnt come near a recommended diet.

[gonnagethuge]

Look at some of the junk ronnie coleman adds to his meals lol. Not your average guy i know byt still ..

[baseline_9]

I think nutrient timing is overstated and for the most part meaningless. Surprised you would say that Jimmy, after reading a bit about IF'ing I believe it to be more important than we think... I think meal frequency is meaningless.Agree 100%

Great to see u drop in here jimmy...

This is just a thread for debate guys... keep it all coming

[SlimmerMe]

Something to think about:

When I tried other ways of losing weight and then saw someone I hadn't seen in awhile, they rarely commented.

On this eating program? I have gotten comments from people telling me:
after 14 pounds, someone guessed I had lost 30. And this someone does not mince words. EVER.
and now after losing 30 pounds? the other day a lady didn't even recognize me except for my dogs. She thought I was someone skinny walking them until a day later I saw her and she was shocked it was me.

So.....depends on how ya wanna look after all is said and done I suppose.

[FireGuy]

Given an ample supply of GH, T3 and Clen you could get leaner on just about anything although that wouldn't be the route I would recommend.

[Papiriqui]

Im not going to argue that you can lean out on junk food but when it comes to hitting macros i see that a little hard, ie chocolate bar, has about 200 cals, 22g carbs, 14g f, 2g p, now you may have hit your carbs but most likely went over your fata and definitely not even close to your proteins, to make the macros for protein tou would have to eat 20lbs of chocolate.

IMHO is easier to just so a healthier diet since you would have to be looking or counting calories and looking at macros anyways, might as well do it healthier

[marcus300]

Its all about calories in calories out - of course you may lose LBM due to not sufficient protein to support the tissue but as far as cutting its all about Cal's in and Cal's out.

[JimmySidewalk]

So why cardio then ? Just provide enough protein(very high levels) to keep LBM and put the carbs 50-100g per day or less/more depending on day activity, with no cardio. Would that work to get cut ?

[Sgt. Hartman]

Couple things.

One thing is I think some people through wishful thinking are mistaking what base is saying, that a macro is a macro, for a calorie in - calorie out approach. The reality is if he hits his macros he will NOT be able to eat any significant amount of garbage food. Hell, one meal of junk food could max out your fat requirements for the day. How much pizza, ice cream, and cheesecake can you eat and still hit your macros? Not much, or it's really not "junk" food. If he were to just hit his calories in junk food though, with no regard for macros then body composition would definitely suffer.

The only part of "a macro is a macro" theory that I disagree with is that a macro of highly processed, or man made food is not the same as a macro from natural foods. Hydrogenated oils have a completely different effect in the body than a natural fat source. Some believe that high fructose corn syrup and other man made highly processed sweeteners have very different effects than real sugar. It'd be impossible but I'd like to see what would happen if macros were hit correctly but all fats came from hydrogenated vegetable oil, carbs from HFCS, and a man-made or highly processed protein source.

[SlimmerMe]

^^ exellent points Sgt.

Yep I suppose that would be about 2 slices with pepperoni on top and maybe a tiny treat.....

[baseline_9]

I would love to see someone do this...

I worked out that for me to hit 300p 200c 60f i could eat a pizza and a chocolate bar every day and make the protein up with lean sources... Fish, chicken, egg whites, whey...


I dont mind eating clean, I just think this would be very interesting to trial.... Maybe if its even just a few days per week as an ease off....

IF'ing is something that really interests me too....

[gbrice75]

I believe cals in/cals out is the biggest factor by far, but I do not believe that's all there is to it. Not if you care about how you actually look. Why do 2 people with identical stats look different, i.e. one looks better than the other, genetics aside? IMO, diet, no question. Like I said before - you are what you eat.