Insulin Resistance

[Turkish Juicer]

I agree about the cutting part. but since we were talking about insulin resistance. So as Turkish posted. The 1 large release would be better then a lower prolonged for insulin resistance. I'm curious if there is a study or some science behind it.

hey gixxer,

I went back and read all my posts under this thread after reading your post above, and I see that my contribution to this thread has solely revolved around the concept of continuous circulation of insulin in the metabolic system and its downsides concerning cutting purposes, not insulin resistance itself. Title of the thread may be Insulin Resistance but my contribution to the thread has been specifically along the lines of presence of insulin in the system and its disadvantage concerning fat loss from an anatomical perspective.

[gixxerboy1]

hey gixxer,

I went back and read all my posts under this thread after reading your post above, and I see that my contribution to this thread has solely revolved around the concept of continuous circulation of insulin in the metabolic system and its downsides concerning cutting purposes, not insulin resistance itself. Title of the thread may be Insulin Resistance but my contribution to the thread has been specifically along the lines of presence of insulin in the system and its disadvantage concerning fat loss from an anatomical perspective.

ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Bonaparte]

What about metformin? That is the first line treatment for type II DM.

Also, Biotest makes a supp called Receptormax, which is aimed at increasing insulin sensitivity. I would just look into each ingredient separately:

Acetyl-L-carnitine

Cinnamomum burmanni (water extract, standardized for type-A polymers, tetramers, and trimers)

Na (sodium) R-alpha-lipoic acid

Coenzyme Q10

4-hydroxyisoleucine

[SexySweetheart]

For those of you who know me, you know I have struggled to gain lean mass. In fact, i've struggled to gain any muscle at all. My last 'add lean mass' run, while I admittedly didn't stick to my plan 100%, was a total failure IMO as I didn't gain any noticeable muscle but did gain a lot of fat.

This really made me start questioning things. How could this be possible? I can understand the fat gain if the diet gets sloppy and cardio is neglected (both of which happened on my last run)... but I couldn't understand why i'd gain NO muscle. I met all the following criteria:

- trained sufficiently and with intensity, i.e. gave my body a reason to grow
- hit my macros (went over if anything)
- sufficient protein, carbs and fat - definite caloric surplus (evident in the fat gains)
- sufficient sleep
- bloodwork shows 'within normal range' test levels

I started thinking about insulin resistance. Without going too much into HOW we become insulin resistant (that's another topic that deserves it's own thread), suffice it to say a leading culprit is poor diet (high fat/sugar/processed calorie dense food) and no exercise. Well, that pretty much sums up my life throughout my 20's.

Insulin resistance is a 'condition' whereby our cells become resistant to insulin. Insulin is a hormone that's responsible for shuttling nutrients into our cells. Basically, we eat - let's say carbs for an easy example - carbs are eventually broken down into their simplest form, glucose. Our blood glucose levels rise. The pancreas is triggered to secrete insulin to 'clean up' the glucose in our bloodstream, shuttling it to be stored into our cells - muscle (as glycogen), liver (as glycogen), and fat (as tryglycerides). You can see how a constant diet high in fat and carbs (not to mention caloric surplus) can keep blood glucose levels high, requiring insulin to continuously be released. Continuous circulating insulin can, over time, cause cells to become insulin resistant.

This made perfect sense for my case - muscles weren't growing in proportion to my training because they weren't benefitting from insulin in my bloodstream. i.e. glucose uptake in the cells was limited. But why would I so easily store bodyfat then, if cells have become resistant? Isn't it an 'all or none' type of thing? Then I came across this little read, which was like an epiphony for me:

Once established, insulin resistance would result in increased circulating levels of insulin. Since insulin is the primary hormonal signal for energy storage into fat cells, which tend to retain their sensitivity in the face of hepatic and skeletal muscle resistance, IR stimulates the formation of new fatty tissue and accelerates weight gain - Elvira Isganaitis; Robert H. Lustig (2005). "Fast Food, Central Nervous System Insulin Resistance, and Obesity". Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis, and Vascular Biology

This spoke volumes to me. This answers my questions. Now it makes perfect sense as to why i'd add fat but not muscle, even though the environment for muscle growth is present. But finding this was the easy part. 'Fixing' it is a whole different animal. So what can we do to decrease insulin resistance, or better put - increase insulin sensitivity?

- limit sugar intake. This is a no brainer. Spiking BGL's and the subsequent insulin response is counter productive. So forget your PWO 'fast acting carbs' - they will only hurt you in this case.

- limit overall carb intake. If you're trying to lower your resistance to insulin, then eating 400g of carbs per day isn't going to help, even if they're the cleanest most complex carbs ever.

- extend the time between when your workout ends and you have your PWO meal, particularly carbs. Studies have shown an increase in insulin sensitivity when food isn't eaten immediately PWO.

- Exercise - duh

- Fasting - I'll be exploring this (again), with the new goal of increasing my sensitivty to insulin. It's logical to think that keeping BGL low and insulin supressed will, over time, increase sensitivity

- Keep fat intake low - I don't mean 10g a day, just be moderate. Personally, I don't let fat make up more than 15% of my diet.

- DO supplement with fish oil. Omega-3 fatty acids have been shown to have a positive effect in increasing insulin sensitivity

I will add more as I think of them/research further. Hopefully this will get a dialogue going which will prompt more questions... and responses. I hope this helps some of you with your own confusion on the topic.

Thanks for posting this GB!
i loved all the technical jargon and how you eloquently explain what you understand (not my strength lol) it really made me feel great cuz that’s what I have been thinking all along about myself and how my body works, which resulted in my diverting massively from the meal planning originally suggested by the guru’s~ which I, at first felt bad about doing, like I didn’t value their time or input (which I totally did value)

Also I see this in ALOT of the over weight gals on the site (and some guys) as I watch their frustration when they two start plans laid out for them by the board members that mean well, are educated, and are also males that were most likely never very over weight, with the result that alot of the females give up and leave the site

I wonder if it would be appropriate to ask the powers that be, too make this a sticky in the nutrition forum.
You know as another option for gals and some guys instead of just the main stream suggestions of 5 meal plans that PWO include brown rice, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, yogurts, fruits etc.

[Ishallnocheatmyself]

where i only have about 15-20% of my pancrease , will your guidelines to increasing sensitivty still apply mate? nice read btw

[gbrice75]

I want to thank you for posting this. It's something I've been aware of in the past, but I have never done any real research on. However, because my doctor recently recommended I get an insulin resistance test, I am starting to do so now.

Glad you enjoyed it! I'm likely going to be tested soon as well.

ok say you took 1 large meal. what ever the breakdown is and divided it into to smaller meals. Why would you have more insulin on the 2 meals instead of 1. Yes you would have another "pulse" but your body shouldnt produce a higher total amount of insulin since in theory you are eating exactly the same. it should be 2 smaller pulses instead of one larger one

I agree that total insulin would be roughly the same amount. The larger meal would provide a larger spike that would last longer. The smaller meals would provide smaller spikes that wouldn't last as long, however for cutting purposes I would prefer one big blast (could also help with growth if timed well) and then a prolonged period of supressed insulin.

I agree about the cutting part. but since we were talking about insulin resistance. So as Turkish posted. The 1 large release would be better then a lower prolonged for insulin resistance. I'm curious if there is a study or some science behind it.

^^ check out Leangains. Martin references many studies - I can't recall any specifically regarding insulin resistance, but you may be able to make an informed determination based on related info.

What about metformin? That is the first line treatment for type II DM.

Also, Biotest makes a supp called Receptormax, which is aimed at increasing insulin sensitivity. I would just look into each ingredient separately:

Acetyl-L-carnitine

Cinnamomum burmanni (water extract, standardized for type-A polymers, tetramers, and trimers)

Na (sodium) R-alpha-lipoic acid

Coenzyme Q10

4-hydroxyisoleucine

Thx for the info B. I have been thinking about Metformin lately myself, pending an IR test. Maybe i'll look into these 'ingredients'.

Thanks for posting this GB!
i loved all the technical jargon and how you eloquently explain what you understand (not my strength lol) it really made me feel great cuz that’s what I have been thinking all along about myself and how my body works, which resulted in my diverting massively from the meal planning originally suggested by the guru’s~ which I, at first felt bad about doing, like I didn’t value their time or input (which I totally did value)

You're welcome, glad you enjoyed it!

Also I see this in ALOT of the over weight gals on the site (and some guys) as I watch their frustration when they two start plans laid out for them by the board members that mean well, are educated, and are also males that were most likely never very over weight, with the result that alot of the females give up and leave the site

I wonder if it would be appropriate to ask the powers that be, too make this a sticky in the nutrition forum.
You know as another option for gals and some guys instead of just the main stream suggestions of 5 meal plans that PWO include brown rice, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, yogurts, fruits etc.

Feel free to PM admin and ask him to make this a sticky! I would, but I am enough of a self-promoting whore as it is, lol!

where i only have about 15-20% of my pancrease , will your guidelines to increasing sensitivty still apply mate? nice read btw

I'm no doctor and it would be irresponsible for me to advise you on this. Do you produce very low amounts of insulin due to having very little pancreas? i.e. are you borderline Type 1 diabetic?

[oscarjones]

Remember guys Adrenals relate to your blood sugar as well. For example, "a chocolate addiction" can be a symptom of adrenal problems. Or, if you ever wake up in the middle of the night at around 3-4 AM it can be be due to low nocturnal cortisol. Basically, cortisol reaches very low levels to the point where it causes hypogly***ia.

Lets say you eat a sugary carb meal right before bed or very late in the evening, the instant high sugar (in a candy bar, let's assume) triggers a strong insulin response. If your adrenals aren't healthy they will not make enough cortisol, specifically at night, to raise your glucose after that big surge of insulin dropped it. When you have low blood sugar the body produces adrenaline, and it just so happens that around 3-4 AM is the body's normal time to have the naturally lowest glucose levels, partly due to fasting for 5+ hours.

So basically, to recap, the reason you wake up, hypogly***ia causes production of adrenaline. And cortisol is responsible for helping to keep blood glucose stable via gluconeogenesis, which is the body's way of metabolizing glucose from non-carb sources, such as proteins and lipids.

[SexySweetheart]

Remember guys Adrenals relate to your blood sugar as well. For example, "a chocolate addiction" can be a symptom of adrenal problems. Or, if you ever wake up in the middle of the night at around 3-4 AM it can be be due to low nocturnal cortisol. Basically, cortisol reaches very low levels to the point where it causes hypogly***ia.

Lets say you eat a sugary carb meal right before bed or very late in the evening, the instant high sugar (in a candy bar, let's assume) triggers a strong insulin response. If your adrenals aren't healthy they will not make enough cortisol, specifically at night, to raise your glucose after that big surge of insulin dropped it. When you have low blood sugar the body produces adrenaline, and it just so happens that around 3-4 AM is the body's normal time to have the naturally lowest glucose levels, partly due to fasting for 5+ hours.

So basically, to recap, the reason you wake up, hypogly***ia causes production of adrenaline. And cortisol is responsible for helping to keep blood glucose stable via gluconeogenesis, which is the body's way of metabolizing glucose from non-carb sources, such as proteins and lipids.

*her hands start to shake* chocolate... did someone say chocolate?!

lol

[oscarjones]

*her hands start to shake* chocolate... did someone say chocolate?!

lol

I know! Nom nom nom... I want a chocolate factory.... bad..

[gbrice75]

Remember guys Adrenals relate to your blood sugar as well. For example, "a chocolate addiction" can be a symptom of adrenal problems. Or, if you ever wake up in the middle of the night at around 3-4 AM it can be be due to low nocturnal cortisol. Basically, cortisol reaches very low levels to the point where it causes hypogly***ia.

Lets say you eat a sugary carb meal right before bed or very late in the evening, the instant high sugar (in a candy bar, let's assume) triggers a strong insulin response. If your adrenals aren't healthy they will not make enough cortisol, specifically at night, to raise your glucose after that big surge of insulin dropped it. When you have low blood sugar the body produces adrenaline, and it just so happens that around 3-4 AM is the body's normal time to have the naturally lowest glucose levels, partly due to fasting for 5+ hours.

So basically, to recap, the reason you wake up, hypogly***ia causes production of adrenaline. And cortisol is responsible for helping to keep blood glucose stable via gluconeogenesis, which is the body's way of metabolizing glucose from non-carb sources, such as proteins and lipids.

Spot on, great post. Exactly why haven't we changed your color yet?

[gbrice75]

Bump

[gbrice75]

Bump!

[RaginCajun]

Just wanted to bump this

[gbrice75]

Just wanted to bump this

I think I have to this

I need to go back thru and read this again and find ways to combat this

Fasting
Low/non existent sugar intake
Supplement w/ chromium
Supplement w/ cinnamon polyphenols
Low-moderate carb intake
Resistance training (to increase muscle cell sensitivity)

To name a few. Good bump btw. Gonna have to read back through this again.

[RaginCajun]

Fasting
Low/non existent sugar intake
Supplement w/ chromium
Supplement w/ cinnamon polyphenols
Low-moderate carb intake
Resistance training (to increase muscle cell sensitivity)

To name a few. Good bump btw. Gonna have to read back through this again.

Fasting is what I was thinking about trying again.

Also been reading the benefits of green tea ECCG on insulin

I also have a mean sweet tooth!

[gbrice75]

I also have a mean sweet tooth!

Same here. However, indulging it *definitely* won't help either of us with increasing insulin sensitivity!

[RaginCajun]

Same here. However, indulging it *definitely* won't help either of us with increasing insulin sensitivity!

Hahaha!

Protein shakes help out and so does sugar free chocolate syrup! I always wonder if all that stuff has the same effect

[gbrice75]

Hahaha!

Protein shakes help out and so does sugar free chocolate syrup! I always wonder if all that stuff has the same effect

Me too, but I still use it in moderation, even during a cut. I'm making progress, so whatever.

[gearbox]

Hahaha!

Protein shakes help out and so does sugar free chocolate syrup! I always wonder if all that stuff has the same effect

gbrice, 405, back in black, baseline, mk, ggr, kel, aust, etc etc..
If you find out that is does effect insulin DO NOT TELL ME, LEAVE ME IN THE DARK!!