just have a few questions regarding cutting..

[kharfan]

hey guys , im 6'3 sitting at about 195 at 18% bf, i originally cut down from 265, so now im starting to take my cut more seriously as i lost alot of lbm cutting on low cals, (1500) i calculated my tdee to be 3200 cals which seems like quite a bit to be honest, would it really harm me if i cut at 1900 or 1800 with high protein? ive also been lurking here for quite a while and found some really new and important info regarding chosing proper foods and avoiding sugars and high gi foods because of insulan spikes, so one of my main questions is, how do you guys feel about IIFYM , where you can eat anything as long as it fits your macronutrients, wouldint it all be the same anyways in the grand scheme of things? thanks in advance
cheers

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

What's IIFYM? Eating anything as long as it's in your macros? I think you'll come to find that it is a bit more complex and difficult then that.

1500 is wayyy low for your height and weight. You could probably get beneficial cuts on a 2300-2400 cal range diet. I wouldn't go any lower then 2000 given your stats or you will continue to see LBM loss.

[kharfan]

hmm thanks man , and well on bb.com, everyones seemed to adopt the method of if it fits your macros.. i guess its seen as more sustainable, but well how would it differ? sorry im just confused is all

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I'm confused to....so you just eat whatever you want and match your macros? If you eat whatever you want wouldn't you go above your macros and cals? I'm having trouble understanding. If you're eating whatever you want how do you know the exact macros you're getting?

[kharfan]

yea well basically , iifym is the belief that you can eat what ever you like for the day as long as it fits in your macros ie: not going over them

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Would that not be a normal diet? You can't exactly eat whatever you want if you're trying to hit certain macros.

Post up a proposed diet with your macros and maybe this will make a little bit more sense.

[kharfan]

well not exactly,
for example,
regualr diet:
meal 1 egg whites and oats
meal 2 brown rice and lean beef
meal 3 pw0 oats and shake

IIFYM
meal one : peanut butter and jam sandwich
meal 2 lean beef with some ice cream
meal 3 mcdonalds (lol)
so with iifym it wouldint matter what you ate, as long as you filled in carbs protein and fats correctly, with iifym a calorie is viewed as just a calorie i guess, a carb is a carb whether it be sugar or oats

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I'm sorry but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, no offense.

The bottom 3 meals don't come anywhere close to the macros that are mentioned in the top 3 meals. So if you ate Ice Cream with your meals you would be adding cals that don't fit any of the macros, and eating McDonalds would send your calories off the ricter scale while adding barley any macros. Tell me exactly what macros you're getting out of ice cream?

This plan seems like a lazy teenage diet built by somebody who is trying to justify the way he eats and still claim that he is eating within his macros. There is so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I can't even comprehend why somebody would think this is a remotely good thing to do? Lol geeez..... BB.com

[kharfan]

I'm sorry but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, no offense.

The bottom 3 meals don't come anywhere close to the macros that are mentioned in the top 3 meals. So if you ate Ice Cream with your meals you would be adding cals that don't fit any of the macros, and eating McDonalds would send your calories off the ricter scale while adding barley any macros. Tell me exactly what macros you're getting out of ice cream?

This plan seems like a lazy teenage diet built by somebody who is trying to justify the way he eats and still claim that he is eating within his macros. There is so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I can't even comprehend why somebody would think this is a remotely good thing to do? Lol geeez..... BB.com

lol , im just giving an example of what it is, with foods that you wouldint consider eating on a regular diet.. i wasnt trying to match the macros specifically, just giving an example

[kharfan]

and well thats why im asking in the first place, im confused on why not have 200g of protein 150g of carbs and 40 g of fats through junk food, rather then chicken and rice and oats, would it really make a difference, im honestly just curious

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

and well thats why im asking in the first place, im confused on why not have 200g of protein 150g of carbs and 40 g of fats through junk food, rather then chicken and rice and oats, would it really make a difference, im honestly just curious

If you can develop a junkfood diet that gives me those macros while I stay in a 2300 cals range then I will bow to you. Heck I'll even give you 200 more cals, 2500 cals 200g protein 150g carbs 40g fats, junkfood diet, lets see it.

[kharfan]

lol, its not based around eating pure junk food, its about being able to incorporate small amounts of junk food here and there with some regular healthy meals

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

lol, its not based around eating pure junk food, its about being able to incorporate small amounts of junk food here and there with some regular healthy meals

If you eat small amounts of junk food here and there how will you not go above your target cals and macros? Then your cardio will just become inevitable because you will be working to burn off a bag of cheetos instead of the fat on your body which would be the reason a person is dieting and doing cardio in the first place....

[kharfan]

simple, say if you were to have chicken and rice for lunch, instead of having rice you coulld have a seldom amount of cheetos, say just enough to match the macros of the brown rice, sure cheetos may have more fat then brown rice, but you could always adjust that within what you eat that day , correct me if im wrong..

[Gronkowski]

lol, its not based around eating pure junk food, its about being able to incorporate small amounts of junk food here and there with some regular healthy meals

I read a study on some guy who all he ate was twinkies, and stayed 500 cal under his maintenance calories, and managed to still loose like 20 pounds. Not the most healthiest way to loose weight, but it proves a cal is a cal. So i don't see why it wouldn't hurt to have some junk food now and than. If it were me thou, and I wanted to take it very seriously. No junk food( chances are you will eat more than you plan on ) just because it's addicting. Stick to lean mean and veggies , avoid all carbs until your under 15 percent BF

[Sgt. Hartman]

The guys at bb. com didn't come up with that idea, it's actually been around a long time but Alan Aragon is the one that made it so popular over there.

The fact is though, you can't eat any significant amount of junk food and still hit your macros. Even if you could, it wouldn't be a good idea from an overall health standpoint. I think it would have very little effect on body composition though if at all but it doesn't really matter because it's impossible to make a junk food diet hit your macros.

The point is that if you're craving a pb & j then make it fit into your macros for that day, or make it fit your macros everyday if you can. Not that its okay to eat 8 pb&j's a day. Too many people use that idea as an excuse to make poor food choices and end up not hitting their macros at all.

[kharfan]

I read a study on some guy who all he ate was twinkies, and stayed 500 cal under his maintenance calories, and managed to still loose like 20 pounds. Not the most healthiest way to loose weight, but it proves a cal is a cal. So i don't see why it wouldn't hurt to have some junk food now and than. If it were me thou, and I wanted to take it very seriously. No junk food( chances are you will eat more than you plan on ) just because it's addicting. Stick to lean mean and veggies , avoid all carbs until your under 15 percent BF

true, it can be addicting, but thing is, ive tried that kind of diet for 3 days, all of them being pretty unsustainable for me i dont know why

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

simple, say if you were to have chicken and rice for lunch, instead of having rice you coulld have a seldom amount of cheetos, say just enough to match the macros of the brown rice, sure cheetos may have more fat then brown rice, but you could always adjust that within what you eat that day , correct me if im wrong..

Brown Rice and Cheetos are not the same carbs....Cheetos are processed crap carbs to where as Brown Rice are slow digesting complex carbs. Maybe you should do a little reading and as far away from BB.com as possible...

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I read a study on some guy who all he ate was twinkies, and stayed 500 cal under his maintenance calories, and managed to still loose like 20 pounds. Not the most healthiest way to loose weight, but it proves a cal is a cal. So i don't see why it wouldn't hurt to have some junk food now and than. If it were me thou, and I wanted to take it very seriously. No junk food( chances are you will eat more than you plan on ) just because it's addicting. Stick to lean mean and veggies , avoid all carbs until your under 15 percent BF

You can pretty much eat anything and if you're in a calorie deficient that you will lose weight. Gurantee the twinkie guy looked like an 80 year old and couldn't pick up a 10lb dumbbell.

[kharfan]

Brown Rice and Cheetos are not the same carbs....Cheetos are processed crap carbs to where as Brown Rice are slow digesting complex carbs. Maybe you should do a little reading and as far away from BB.com as possible...

see thats what im trying to get at, my main question is, in the end , wouldint the carbs be burned off the same way or stored the same way, so what would it matter

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

see thats what im trying to get at, my main question is, in the end , wouldint the carbs be burned off the same way or stored the same way, so what would it matter

No they would not.

[kharfan]

what would be the difference

[Gronkowski]

true, it can be addicting, but thing is, ive tried that kind of diet for 3 days, all of them being pretty unsustainable for me i dont know why

Just do the best you can man.. For every week of hard work at the gym, treat your self to a treat. You will feel like you deserved it. As for having a craving for candy / sweets, try your best to replace it with a piece of fruit to satisfy that sweet tooth. You will eventually train your brain to be able to avoid that regular unhealthy food choices. You will feel alot better too, perform better, and look better. As for brown rice vs Cheetos, they both are carbs but they are both completely different. As you probably know the Cheetos are processed and have very little ( none ) nutrition value, and if you were to have the rice, you would reap several more benefits from it. Ie feeling fuller longer, more energy.

[kharfan]

Just do the best you can man.. For every week of hard work at the gym, treat your self to a treat. You will feel like you deserved it. As for having a craving for candy / sweets, try your best to replace it with a piece of fruit to satisfy that sweet tooth. You will eventually train your brain to be able to avoid that regular unhealthy food choices. You will feel alot better too, perform better, and look better. As for brown rice vs Cheetos, they both are carbs but they are both completely different. As you probably know the Cheetos are processed and have very little ( none ) nutrition value, and if you were to have the rice, you would reap several more benefits from it. Ie feeling fuller longer, more energy.

thanks man, gonna give it another whirl tomorrow i guess, gonna aim for around 2000 calories tomorrow!

[kharfan]

also, im finding my hunger to be out of control, im literally alwys hungry now, any tips on controlling that

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Not only do complex carbs come with other nutrients such as dietary fiber but they are also slow absorbing which benefit in blood sugar levels and keeps insulin levels stable.

Simple carbs are fast absorbing and can cause fluctuations in blood sugar levels which could be harmful. It can also spike insulin and cause short energy bursts where as complex carbs would cause steady long lasting use of energy.

[kharfan]

Not only do complex carbs come with other nutrients such as dietary fiber but they are also slow absorbing which benefit in blood sugar levels and keeps insulin levels stable.

Simple carbs are fast absorbing and can cause fluctuations in blood sugar levels which could be harmful. It can also spike insulin and cause short energy bursts where as complex carbs would cause steady long lasting use of energy.

thanks for the input! im learning alot here

[Gronkowski]

also, im finding my hunger to be out of control, im literally alwys hungry now, any tips on controlling that

How often are you working out? It could be your body telling you that it needs more food. When your already in a calorie deficiency, and your working your ass off in the gym, it sometimes can be tough on your body. It needs those cals to help recover. Man I'd try 2500 and see how that goes, and if that's not enough, drop to 2250 . That's why I feel like you should be eating whole clean cals, it will make you feel more full for longer! When I'm hungry and cutting BF and having those cravings, I'll have a a cup of coffee before I workout or after a meal. I find the caffeine helps to suppress my appetite. Try to keep busy and to not think about food. You will find you will be alot more productive if your not always thinking about your next meal. Drink plenty of water during each meal to, it will help you feel fuller !

[kharfan]

How often are you working out? It could be your body telling you that it needs more food. When your already in a calorie deficiency, and your working your ass off in the gym, it sometimes can be tough on your body. It needs those cals to help recover. Man I'd try 2500 and see how that goes, and if that's not enough, drop to 2250 . That's why I feel like you should be eating whole clean cals, it will make you feel more full for longer! When I'm hungry and cutting BF and having those cravings, I'll have a a cup of coffee before I workout or after a meal. I find the caffeine helps to suppress my appetite. Try to keep busy and to not think about food. You will find you will be alot more productive if your not always thinking about your next meal. Drink plenty of water during each meal to, it will help you feel fuller !

well i have football 4-5 days a week, and try to get into the gym to lift about 3 days a week so they sometimes overlap

[Gronkowski]

well i have football 4-5 days a week, and try to get into the gym to lift about 3 days a week so they sometimes overlap

You should wait till off season to do your cut. If you eat healthy clean cals and have moderate junk snacks, you should still be able to loose some weight. No need being in a deficiency with that kind of workload.

[kharfan]

id usually agree with you on this , but for some reason, if i dont count cals im almost certain to gain weight