Hey 405: What is carb cycling

[mockery]

^^ a single low day will never allow you to sufficiently deplete glycogen stores. Aside from creating a bigger caloric deficit (assuming you're not compensating for the lower carb macro by upping the protein and/or fat macros), it's pretty much pointless IMO.

i have 2 low days, that is not enough? what if i get a third and turn one of the mod days into the high day.

high mod low mod low low

thanks !

[gbrice75]

I'm saying I see no point of the single low day by itself. I'd opt for 3 consecutive low days which, if workouts are on point, will all but guarantee glycogen depletion.

[mockery]

I'm saying I see no point of the single low day by itself. I'd opt for 3 consecutive low days which, if workouts are on point, will all but guarantee glycogen depletion.

oh i get it now, but isnt this to similar to keto? or lyles depletion work outs? i still haven't read a book on carb cycling but my understanding was fibrous carbs only on non training days, maintenance on training days with a heavier loading day once a week not to be mistaken with a eat what ever you want day. Im carb cycling and daily fasting for body re comp. not a cutting diet.

[gbrice75]

oh i get it now, but isnt this to similar to keto? or lyles depletion work outs? i still haven't read a book on carb cycling but my understanding was fibrous carbs only on non training days, maintenance on training days with a heavier loading day once a week not to be mistaken with a eat what ever you want day. Im carb cycling and daily fasting for body re comp. not a cutting diet.

Not quite keto, but I understand why you would think so. By the 3rd day, most people would be at the onset of ketosis.

There are many ways to carb cycle, i'm definitely not saying my way is the only way. What you've laid out above (no carbs on non training days, maintenance on training days, single carb refeed high day) is a solid plan which works via different mechanisms than what I've suggested, and is fine for a recomp. You're not going to deplete glycogen in a single day but that's ok. Actually, it's similar to what i'm doing currently.

[mockery]

Not quite keto, but I understand why you would think so. By the 3rd day, most people would be at the onset of ketosis.

There are many ways to carb cycle, i'm definitely not saying my way is the only way. What you've laid out above (no carbs on non training days, maintenance on training days, single carb refeed high day) is a solid plan which works via different mechanisms than what I've suggested, and is fine for a recomp. You're not going to deplete glycogen in a single day but that's ok. Actually, it's similar to what i'm doing currently.

Is depleting glycogen a necessary tool thou? if its something i need to read a few medical journals over at the hopkins website i will, Is it dangerous to completly deplete my storage and be in a 16-18 hour fast?

my training this week feels like im training depleted already haha, doesnt help my routine reset starts with 15's so lactic acid (debatable if its is real) and the lack of carbs in my diet is kicking the shit out of me.

[gbrice75]

Is depleting glycogen a necessary tool thou?

To lose bodyfat? No. But it's an effective tool.

if its something i need to read a few medical journals over at the hopkins website i will, Is it dangerous to completly deplete my storage and be in a 16-18 hour fast?

Dangerous? I don't think so, at all.

lack of carbs in my diet

my training this week feels like im training depleted already

Maybe you are...

[mockery]

can gym progression, like linear progression still be made while depleted or training in a deficit ?? im wondering as i lose water, fat and become depleted if my rep maxes i am working towards are actually coming down from their previous numbers.

[mockery]

monday and tues i do depletion workouts.. 5-6 sets x 15 reps (trying to be under tension for 45secs per set). this is very difficult and i usually feel light headed and nausea by the time its all done as well as depleted.. i use this to deplete muscle glycogen.. it takes @10-12 sets per bodypart in this style of workout i have learnd to deplete muscle glycogen.. sometimes theres still some left even after the 2 workouts..

i over looked this before

you're doing negatives while depleted? .. u got some big balls son!

I do negatives every 8-10 weeks for 2 weeks and they put me borderline in the hospital with phenumia , im so sick during the past week and usually 2 weeks after from teh strain they put on me.

[--->>405<<---]

They are slow reps. Espec the negative portion of the rep. This is dun in order to deplete glycogen. 2 days in a row. By the end of workout on day 2 u are pretty much depleted (if u do the proper amt sets/reps with proper time "under tension"

Its very taxing and tuff to complete!

[mockery]

hey 405 or even my mate Gbrice can you have a look at this please...

its for my partner who has hit a wall after losing 80lbs. i will have her on daily fasts at 16/8 until or if she needs to drop to 14/10 and will be adding in carb cycling

Goals 27% - 13% BF
loss of 27lbs fat

July 14th - October 14th

weekly average of 2.3 lbs


2400tdee (27% bf) -900 deficit

maintenance day 1500

150 p
150 c
34 fat

Low (depletion) 1001

150 p
50c (fibrous only)
22.5

refuel 2250

150p
300 c
50f

day 1: low, fasted cardio
day 2: low, fasted cardio
day 3: low, fasted cardio and weights
day 4: refeed, fasted cardio
day 5: moderate, fasted cardio and weights
day 6: moderate, fasted cardio and weights
day 7: low, rest day


have a look and tell me what you think.,

[--->>405<<---]

women are a bit difft. stats r necessary...

u have her tdee and bf% which is fine but we need to see her LBM..

at a glance id have her weight training on day 1 instead of day 3. id also have her do total body that day. if u put her lifting on day 3 shes gonna be fairly depleted (depending on the intensity of her cardio). lifting on day 1 will help deplete her glycogen but one day of lifting (and a girl ) more than likely wont be enuff to deplete it totally.

[mockery]

her lean bm is 120.2lbs

she can workout wed, Fri, Sunday. She will doing squats, bench/ alternate with press, chin alternated with pull ups dumbbell rows alternated with back extensions. This style of training,

So my thought was she goes low 3 days in a row and that 3 day is also a gym day so she should be able to delete herself rather well, but again i dont know. looking forward to your reply when u are free.

thanks

[--->>405<<---]

i think her bmr is 1545 (or so). i wouldnt go under that for moderate days. maybe 1600-1650cals.

as far as the workouts go the lifting done in the beginning of the cycle will deplete muscle glycogen. this is followed by am fasted cardio to take advantage of the depleted state which causes the body to resort to fat for fuel. if shes not lifting til day 3 of low carb then she will not have much energy to get thru the workout and also its mentally challenging by day 3 simply cuz shes gonna be craving carbs so bad. not a good environment to be lifting IMO.

personally id try to have her day 1 be sunday. this way shell have strength to get thru the workout and use it to deplete glycogen early in the cycle and then do cardio mon and tue.. so something like this:

day1: sunday (low carb) lift total body depletion (15 reps, 5sets) chest, back, legs, arms, shoulders, calves
day2: monday (low carb) am fasted cardio
day3: tuesday (low carb) am fasted cardio
day4: wednesday (high carb) PM lift if possible (chest, back, arms) PWO cardio if poss.
day5: thursday (moderate) am fasted cardio
day6: friday (moderate) lift (legs, shoulders) PWO cardio
day7: saturday (moderate) off

something like this she could also just do total body all 3 days she lifts. 3 working sets per bodypart (except day 1)

[mockery]

Hello

yeah full body 3 x 12-15 i was thinking. how many sets on day 1, 5?

1.) she just asked if she can train fasted for 40 minutes then do 20-40 minutes cardio right after then 10g bcaa at 7am, 10g bcaa at 9 and feed 50% of daily intake at 11am after her fast.

2.) she will train twice a day if she has to but she would rather work out fasted so she doesnt have to wait so late in the day to eat her 50% calorie intake meal.

3.)for her maintenance ill add a shake into the mix 35g protein to help bring her closer to the 1650 calories. i got 1545ish as well but i was simplifying it. The shake added 140 calories should do the trick as she also has no shakes in my current meal plan im writing up.

thanks 405, come October ill paypal u some money ha ha if we get her to her goal.

[mockery]

btw following gbrices IF advice and your carb cycling advice in a week ive gone from 91kg to 87kg , the moring after my low days i have dropped as low at 85.8. Morning weigh in after the morning piss

somethings working, i cant record my fat to lbm loss, but the changes in just a week u can see visually x 100

so thanks a lot sharing your experience and opinions with all of us.

[--->>405<<---]

day1 = 5sets . if its too much for her to start have her do 3 sets and work up to 5 over a couple weeks. dont want her to burn out! its a tuff workout even for me and ive been doing it a lot. when ur not eating any carbs and doing total body x 5 sets it can be rough. but if depletion is what u want then it is necessary. like i said she prob wont fully deplete with just 5 sets. my depletion is spread over 2 days in a row at 5sets per day for a total of 10sets. also make sure she drinks like a gallon of water each of the 3 low days. if she does the day 1 workout properly (due to depletion) she should wake up on day 2 weighing 3-6lbs less than normal. this weight will return after the refeed so tell her not to get very excited!

i think i said previously i havent researched IF in detail but from what ive seen on here people do their workouts fasted if necessary

protein shake is a good idea i was suggesting pm workout on high day to give her some time to absorb the carbs shes gonna be eating after coming off a depleted state. i still think thats a good idea. the rest of the time i would think fasted workouts r ok. at least for now.

im not sure i understand the correlation between fasted workouts and her 50% meal. is it cuz thats her PWO meal?

[mockery]

yes in theory its the PWO so it has to be 50% calorie intake

where i train late so i eat my two small meals Train, then eat my 50% 2 hours before bed.

[mockery]

day4: wednesday (high carb) PM lift if possible (chest, back, arms) PWO cardio if poss.

i over looked this, and this is a huge deal, OMG thanks mate!! def PM training on this day.

[Ben_66]

Sorry to bump an old post back up...

405, I have my high carb day on Sunday's , I was wondering can you have a cheat meal on this day? I wanted to have beef jerky with popcorn on this day?

Do you have to be extremely strict?

[--->>405<<---]

Sorry to bump an old post back up...

405, I have my high carb day on Sunday's , I was wondering can you have a cheat meal on this day? I wanted to have beef jerky with popcorn on this day?

Do you have to be extremely strict?

thoeretically on high carb day it is better to keep fats low. when i cycle carbs i limit myself to one cheat meal per 4 weeks and then i allow myself whatever the heck i want! if ur doing it weekly id limit fats. popcorn and beef jerky should be fine IMO. make sure the popcorn isnt that high fat stuff that comes pre packaged and dont go crazy with portions

[Ben_66]

thoeretically on high carb day it is better to keep fats low. when i cycle carbs i limit myself to one cheat meal per 4 weeks and then i allow myself whatever the heck i want! if ur doing it weekly id limit fats. popcorn and beef jerky should be fine IMO. make sure the popcorn isnt that high fat stuff that comes pre packaged and dont go crazy with portions

Thank you!

One last question about the fat intake on high carb day.

Before bed I always have my casein proteing shake with 2 tbs of natural peanut butter. On high carb day I should avoid the peanut butter? If yes should I replace is with oatmeal?

[gbrice75]

Beef jerky and popcorn is your cheat meal?!?! Damn I wish I was you!!

One last question about the fat intake on high carb day.

Before bed I always have my casein proteing shake with 2 tbs of natural peanut butter. On high carb day I should avoid the peanut butter? If yes should I replace is with oatmeal?

No. On high carb days, you should avoid eating too much fat. Actually, you should always try to avoid this. IMO, 2tbsp of PB is a lot before bed; I'd knock it down to 1tbsp tbh.

[mockery]

i think her bmr is 1545 (or so). i wouldnt go under that for moderate days. maybe 1600-1650cals.

as far as the workouts go the lifting done in the beginning of the cycle will deplete muscle glycogen. this is followed by am fasted cardio to take advantage of the depleted state which causes the body to resort to fat for fuel. if shes not lifting til day 3 of low carb then she will not have much energy to get thru the workout and also its mentally challenging by day 3 simply cuz shes gonna be craving carbs so bad. not a good environment to be lifting IMO.

personally id try to have her day 1 be sunday. this way shell have strength to get thru the workout and use it to deplete glycogen early in the cycle and then do cardio mon and tue.. so something like this:

day1: sunday (low carb) lift total body depletion (15 reps, 5sets) chest, back, legs, arms, shoulders, calves
day2: monday (low carb) am fasted cardio
day3: tuesday (low carb) am fasted cardio
day4: wednesday (high carb) PM lift if possible (chest, back, arms) PWO cardio if poss.
day5: thursday (moderate) am fasted cardio
day6: friday (moderate) lift (legs, shoulders) PWO cardio
day7: saturday (moderate) off

something like this she could also just do total body all 3 days she lifts. 3 working sets per bodypart (except day 1)

Hey 405 opinions please, not after a micro check or anything like that just the food choices on the given carb cycled days. Can u see anything i may have done in food choice?

Maintenance/Moderate Carbs (-900) 1650

150 carbs
34 fat
185 protein

Meal 1: PWO Nutrition (40% daily caloric intake)

1 scoop protein powder (35p 1c) with 2 tbsp. ground milled flax seed (5c 7f)
200g chicken breast 40p 0.8f
2 cup broccoli 10c
250ml simply egg whites 24p
½ cup oatmeal 40c 8p 2f
2 tbsp. natty peanut butter 8p 6c 16f
1/3 cup blue berries 10c

Meal 2:

100g chicken breast 20p 0.4g f
1 cup broccoli 7c
125ml simply egg whites 12p
¾ cup brown rice 32c 3p 1f
2 tbsp. of low fat cheese 3.5p 2.5f

Meal 3:

100g chicken breast 20p 0.4g f
1 cup broccoli 7c
125ml simply egg whites 12p
¾ cup brown rice 32c 3p 1f
2 tbsp. of low fat cheese 3.5p 2.5f

Note:

• Friday fasted resistance training take 10g (1 scoop) BCAA 15 minutes before work out in 8 oz. water.

• Then 10g (1 scoop) BCAA at 7am

• Then 10g (1 scoop) BCAA at 9am






Low Carbs 1100

50 carbs (Fibrous veggies only)
22.5 fat
185 protein

Meal 1: (40% daily caloric intake)

1 scoop protein powder (35p 1c) with 1 tbsp. ground milled flax seed (2.5c 3.5f)
200g chicken breast 40p 0.8f
150g broccoli 7c
250ml simply egg whites 24p
1 tbsp. natty peanut butter 4p 3c 8f

Meal 2:

100g chicken breast 20p 0.4g f
150g broccoli 7c
125ml simply egg whites 12p

Meal 3:

100g chicken breast 20p 0.4g f
150g broccoli 7c
125ml simply egg whites 12p


Note:

• Sunday fasted resistance training take 10g (1 scoop) BCAA 15 minutes before work out in 8 oz. water.













High Carbs 2250

300 carbs
50 fats
185 protein

Meal 1:

100g chicken breast 20p 0.4g f
150g broccoli 7c
125ml simply egg whites 12p
1 cup brown rice 42c 4p 2f
¼ cup low fat cheese 7p 5f

Meal 2: (eat 3 hours before gym)

100g chicken breast 20p 0.4g f
150g broccoli 5c
125ml simply egg whites 12p
1 cup brown rice 42c 4p 2f
¼ cup low fat cheese 7p 5f

Meal 3: Pre Workout (eat 1 hour before the gym)

1 cup oatmeal 80c 16p 4f
2 tbsp. natty peanut butter 8p 6c 16f

Meal 4: PWO Nutrition (40% daily caloric intake)

1 scoop protein powder (35p 1c) with 2 tbsp. ground milled flax seed (5c 7f)
200g chicken breast 40p 0.8f
150g cup broccoli 7c
250ml simply egg whites 24p
1 cup oatmeal 80c 16p 4f
1/3 cup blue berries 10c

[--->>405<<---]

food choices look ok. not a fan of the cheese while cutting but its for a girl rite?

i would move ur fats to meal 3 and move the meal 3 "starchy" (rice) carb to meal 1,2 (u could split it) keep meal 3 protein, veggie, fat...

other than that looks ok.. (except the cheese )

also ive learned from experience (speaking for myself) spinach works better for regularity while on "no/fibrous only" days

[Ben_66]

Beef jerky and popcorn is your cheat meal?!?! Damn I wish I was you!!



No. On high carb days, you should avoid eating too much fat. Actually, you should always try to avoid this. IMO, 2tbsp of PB is a lot before bed; I'd knock it down to 1tbsp tbh.

Yeah your right, I went nuts and started drinking the Peanut butter from the container one time, so much fat... I'm disappointed i let myself go.. But never again.


Hey 405 I was wondering if you lower your protein by a bit on high carb days as oppose to keep your protein intake consistent everyday.

[--->>405<<---]

Yeah your right, I went nuts and started drinking the Peanut butter from the container one time, so much fat... I'm disappointed i let myself go.. But never again.


Hey 405 I was wondering if you lower your protein by a bit on high carb days as oppose to keep your protein intake consistent everyday.

on the diet im currently using i dont eat as much meat but it is intentional because im eating 1000g carbs on my high carb day! however as u know carbs sometimes contain a little protein as well so my macro total for the day reflects no decrease due to the fact that the little bit of protein in carbs piles up when ur eating 1000g!

but maybe a better answer for u is on a typical carb cycle diet the only macro i have manipulated intentionally was carbs. i ate the same meat amts everyday. fats and protein dropped a little or increased a little due to trace amts found in carbs but other than that i keep everything the same.

if i eat 12oz chikn and 12oz beef per day i do it 7days per week. high, low, moderate it doesnt matter.

hope this is clear enuff

[mockery]

i thought about keeping fats and carbs separate but with only three meals a day. that shits hard when you gotta eat 3 cup of rice at once lol. but ill try to add that as we both start to stall in the latter weeks. its definitely been on my mind. thanks for having a look 405

[--->>405<<---]

I suppose i have a capacity for a large amt of food in my stomach. Ive eaten 1lb beef 1cup (uncooked) rice in 1 meal!

[mockery]

yes my stomach has shrank, but 400g chicken breast, 1/2 cup egg whites and 300g brocolli then 3 cups of rice.. fml/. but i will be making the last meal of teh day fats only with protein. i can micro that pretty easy with the two other meals and heavy carbs.

[gbrice75]

i thought about keeping fats and carbs separate but with only three meals a day. that shits hard when you gotta eat 3 cup of rice at once lol. but ill try to add that as we both start to stall in the latter weeks. its definitely been on my mind. thanks for having a look 405

We used to preach this around here, but it simply isn't necessary. My only recommendation is to keep one predominant over the other... i.e. I wouldn't have a meal with 60g of carbs and 25g of fat... but i'd do 70g cabs and 10g of fat, or minimal carbs and 15-20g fat.

Having said that, if you're cutting and using carb cycling as part of the equation, i'd recommend carbs in only 2-3 meals - at least your pre and post workout meals.

[rmadd]

Hey what's your input on dairy in carb cycling? I've read some guys say absolutely no dairy but also read the other way.

[--->>405<<---]

ill put it to u like this: i eat 1300g carbs in 30hrs on my refeed and only drink 16oz milk and i love it! i dont recall specifically what was said about dairy but id suggest u keep it limited and on refeed day only.

[gbrice75]

^^ yea, I wouldn't say there is any 'rule' for dairy with regards to carb cycling. When cutting, I try to keep my dairy limited to a higher protein to carb ratio... meaning yes to cottage cheese and greek yogurt, no to milk. Some people do fine on dairy, others don't. It all comes down to how well you can handle it tbh.

[cue_artist]

IMO i see no need for a bodybuilder to go 2 days or 3 days sraight without carbs. Even when i carb cycle my low days have at least 100 g of carbs . No wonder why most of u guys complain that they feel small when dieeting

Day 1 High : 300 g
Day 2 moderate : 200 g
Day 3 moderate : 200 g
Day 4 low : 100 g
Day 5 low : 100 g
Day 6 low : 50 g (veggies only)

[jpowell]

IMO i see no need for a bodybuilder to go 2 days or 3 days sraight without carbs. Even when i carb cycle my low days have at least 100 g of carbs . No wonder why most of u guys complain that they feel small when dieeting

Day 1 High : 300 g
Day 2 moderate : 200 g
Day 3 moderate : 200 g
Day 4 low : 100 g
Day 5 low : 100 g
Day 6 low : 50 g (veggies only)

I like wen differnt guys ad their differnt exp and guides. Its helps out a lot!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

[mockery]

well i have seen first hand i can use low carbs and be lean and and vascular or i can use high carbs and be bloated. ill take the lean, some guys look better when they are filled out with bloat. personal choice on aesthetics

[mockery]

sticky!

[mockery]

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[--->>405<<---]

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[--->>405<<---]

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