Tdee ++ if

Hey guys and gals. I'm currently on day one of my second go around of IF. I have read all of leangains and somehow I am missing how I should break my TDEE down. My TDEE is 3192, if I am doing IF should I still reduce the TDEE by 300-500?

I'm not new to working out or AAS, Im think I'm currently very strong (to have 2 horrible shoulders). I have always been the fat kid w/ some muscle tone. I am 6'0 228lbs and don't really know which BF scale to use the Jackson one or the Wamberly(sp?) one. Jackson says I am 16.6% and Wamberly says I'm 23.5%. If you take the average of the two then I'm 20%. I will post a pic if need be, lol. The best I have ever done is 242lbs with 14% while taking gear!!

I will provide more info on macros when someone helps me out with the question I have, lol. Thanks anyone for the info, glad to be here look forward to learning more and more everyday.

Welcome to the board.

First, how did you arrive at a TDEE of 3192? Based on your stats, your LBM is roughly 180lbs. I'd eyeball your TDEE much closer to 2700 unless you're VERY active. This is probably half the reason you're still ~20% bodyfat.

Second, I don't know if you have plans to use gear in the near future, but most who have already done it always do, and I would recommend against it. Get your diet in check first. What's the point of using gear at 20% bodyfat?

Finally, and to get to your actual question - I am assuming you want to go for straight fat loss as a primary goal. I'd stick with 500 behind your (real) TDEE every day (not just on non-workout days) and monitor youself closely, adjust if/when needed.

What is your specific IF plan? Since we're both in our 2nd round of IF, check out my thread if you haven't already, maybe it'll offer some insight: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ttent-fasting)

Well GB I never was good at math, lol!!

Yes primary goal is fat loss, I will email you a pic since I can't post them here. I have done the math several times and I keep coming up with 3192. You bring up that's why I may still be where I stand, that's a great point my friend. I have read both of your threads the current one and the one from last year.

Also, by my calculations I get that guts, bones and muscle is 180lbs, that's lbm, right? So assuming I wanted to get to 10-12% BF then that would make me losing 25-28lbs of pure blubber. That would be fantastic.

No I am not planning on doing gear at my current body comp. really there is no point. I have learned from here there is no sense in doing it until the 10-12% BF range.

I think I answered all the questions. Standby for email pic!

Specific IF plan would be

18/6 is what I did before so I will give it a go again.

I workout full body every 3rd day at 9am-10am, then 35-45 min of cardio while I am at Fire Dept. Cardio consists of inclined brisk walking.

Then cardio on mornings coming off from FD, (we work 24/48 ) but don't get paid enough so I can only workout while at FD due to having a side job. So my FAST breaking meal will come around 1-2pm consisting of 1/2 my macros. How does that sounds. Should I also do this non-workout days as well?

I know carbs are great but they make me feel crappy, can I still retain all I have and eat Paleo/IF style?

Your getting 2700 that's what I get when I times it by the (desk job) rate?? Do you not take in account for working out and cardio, or is that extra? That's would explain a lot, if that's the case then I have been maintaining this blubber by only surviving not being under TDEE.

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Originally Posted by 3Js

Well GB I never was good at math, lol!!

Yes primary goal is fat loss, I will email you a pic since I can't post them here. I have done the math several times and I keep coming up with 3192. You bring up that's why I may still be where I stand, that's a great point my friend. I have read both of your threads the current one and the one from last year.

Also, by my calculations I get that guts, bones and muscle is 180lbs, that's lbm, right? So assuming I wanted to get to 10-12% BF then that would make me losing 25-28lbs of pure blubber. That would be fantastic.

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Everything exept bodyfat... even water is considered LBM.

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Originally Posted by 3Js

No I am not planning on doing gear at my current body comp. really there is no point. I have learned from here there is no sense in doing it until the 10-12% BF range.

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Glad to hear this bro, I think you'll be happier in the long run if you go the slow and steady route.

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Originally Posted by 3Js

Specific IF plan would be

18/6 is what I did before so I will give it a go again.

I workout full body every 3rd day at 9am-10am, then 35-45 min of cardio while I am at Fire Dept. Cardio consists of inclined brisk walking.

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Ahh, another fireman.. so I guess working out 3x a week is out of the question for you right?

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Originally Posted by 3Js

Then cardio on mornings coming off from FD, (we work 24/48 ) but don't get paid enough so I can only workout while at FD due to having a side job. So my FAST breaking meal will come around 1-2pm consisting of 1/2 my macros. How does that sounds. Should I also do this non-workout days as well?

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Sounds good for the most part. I wish you could get a 3rd workout day in (e.g. Mon/Wed/Fri) but you have to work with what you've got. Do cardio fasted every day except 1 (leave yourself 1 complete rest day a week). Only change i'd make on non-workout days is to reduce carbs - I try and keep mine around 25-50g tops. I also do not up fats on those days; I simply try and benefit from the wider caloric deficit.

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Originally Posted by 3Js

I know carbs are great but they make me feel crappy, can I still retain all I have and eat Paleo/IF style?

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Ah ok, so you're hardly eating carbs as it is. Well, IMO carbs are an important part of bodybuilding. Could you add carbs to a single meal, say just your fast breaker?

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Originally Posted by 3Js

Your getting 2700 that's what I get when I times it by the (desk job) rate?? Do you not take in account for working out and cardio, or is that extra? That's would explain a lot, if that's the case then I have been maintaining this blubber by only surviving not being under TDEE.

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TDEE takes into account everything - working out, cardio, walking to the bathroom to take a piss. I assume you've been using an online calculator and/or one of the formulas. The problem I have with them (I know I sound like a broken record) is they are far too subjective. What YOU consider 'moderately active' may vary greatly from what I consider 'moderately active'. So if our stats were identical and we both used the same formula, we could very well come out with very different (and inaccurate) TDEE's.

Listen to your body, not math. If you've been eating X amount of calories for X length of time and have not really reduced your bodyfat (assuming you've stayed true to the diet), chances are you've been eating too much.

Yeah GB I could do my breaking fast meal with say brown rice or sweet potato, then shut down the carbs to a minimum.

Ah another fireman?? What's that suppose to mean, lol??

Technically it is 3 times a week, in a full 7 day week

Here would be my schedule

Let's say start with this week starting with Sunday:

Sunday-(WORK) workout/cardio
Monday-(no work) cardio
Tuesday-nothing
Wednesday-(WORK) workout/cardio
Thursday-(no work) cardio
Friday-nothing
Saturday-(WORK) workout/cardio
Sunday-(no work) cardio

On the nothing days I am not close to a gym, I am working a side/part time job. That's also why I do a full body WO with a partner, when he finishes his set I do my set.

Leg ext 8-10-12
Leg curl 8-10-12
Leg press 8-10-12
Incline Bench press 8-10-12
Back/deads/low row/ 8-10-12
Shoulder press 8-10-12
Bicep curl 8-10-12
Tricep press 8-10-12
Calf 8-10-12

The other $hitty part is we are only allowed 2 hrs in gym. That being said minus the cardio I don't need a lot of time working out. I do a very intense IMO workout. I'm actually pretty pleased considering I just started back to work in Feb after a 4 month off time due to shoulder surgery.

Critique my routine to whatever you think might be more useful. I don't think it's to bad the way it is but more eyes and ears are better.

GB I agree with you on the TDEE, I will go with the lesser one and see how the mirror looks.

Cool bro, looks decent although personally i'd change up the leg routine to include some form of squat and perhaps a deadlift. If you're doing total body workouts and relatively low volume (as you are), work as many muscle groups as you can in one shot... leg extensions definitely aren't doing it.

Nothing negative meant with the fireman comment, lol, only that I was recently working with another new member who is a fireman. ;)

I'm willing to bet your training is fine. Diet is 80% IMO. Get it in check, and I believe you will begin seeing better results fast.

Thanks GB! I'm going to try ~500 of TDEE first to see how that goes. 2200 kcal. 40/40/20? If I could post pics I would post progress pics, oh well.

I actually do squats and deads. The leg ext and curls or mainly warmups.

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Originally Posted by 3Js

Thanks GB! I'm going to try ~500 of TDEE first to see how that goes. 2200 kcal. 40/40/20? If I could post pics I would post progress pics, oh well.

I actually do squats and deads. The leg ext and curls or mainly warmups.

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That's 220g of carbs.... too high IMO. I wouldn't go over 30% tbh, and allow protein to account for about 50%.

Good deal on the squats and deads.

Cool deal, 50/30/20 it is then.

Mr. Brice,

TDEE-2700

My daily intake while trying to get UNfat

Total macro-2200 kcal

1100 kcal pro=275g
660 kcal carbs=165g
440 kcal fats=48g

I'm going to do 3 meals they will look like this.

Meal 1/break fast meal
550kcal pro=137g
330kcal carb=83g
220kcal fat=24g

Meal 2
275kcal=68g
165kcal=42g
110kcal=12g

Meal 3

Same as meal 2

Looks good man, pretty similar to mine although i'm cycling calories and carbs. I am also keeping meal 3 as carb-free as possible, but that's just personal preference.

Thanks GB. Should I create a new thread for a log or use this one?

Definitely start a new one, and name it appropriately so it grabs attention and others can subscribe! ;)