Bulking

[Ben_66]

First of all I would like to thank GBrice and <<405>> for all the support they gave me on nutrition and carb cycling.

I am done with carb cycling. I tried for 2 weeks and had great results. I will do it again next in November/December. I now know it works even though I only did it for 2 weeks I seen a bigger difference then going to 40/40/20 route and bunch of cardio. And plus the summer almost over.

I will like to bulk now since I have a wedding to go to in Mexico in January and would like to add some pounds to my frame as I am only 162pounds. then cut with carb cycling 6 weeks before the trip.

My story:

I have been on a cutting diet forever or low calorie diet since I do kickboxing and need to stay at 155-165 pounds. Long story short.. I now have quit kickboxing and chosen the spiritual path and will replace kickboxing with YOGA. I can now focus to get up to 175 pounds naturally and get to my max goal of 185pounds in the later time with help of aas.

Here are my stats:

28 (will be 29 very soon)
5'9
162 pounds this morning
BF % ?
Here is a pic:









My TDEE is roughly 2719 cal

I really dont want to have to count calories. I just want to eat healthy when I'm hungry. I dont mind if I get up to 15% bf. I can lose it no problem down to 11% and then do carb cycling

So far I will incorporate back fruits and milk.

I will post my diet soon after I do more research on bulking. In the meantime can anyone give me some pointers?

My workout I am changing to mon/wed/fri/ and going for strengh 5x5. On Tues and Thur. I will be doing fasted cardio for 45 min.

[tbody66]

You have a great base and a very realistic goal. I'd like to see the workout specifics if you get a chance. Thanks for the thread, looking forward to the progress.

[gbrice75]

Only 2 weeks!?!? Argh!! I understand though. You do what you think is best for you, but please DON'T fall into the trap that I have (and still do to some extent) where you're bouncing back and forth between these 2 distinct goals and effectively making NO progress.

You look good man, based on that pic, i'd put you at around 11% or so.

Bulking is just like cutting with regards to monitoring yourself. You need to be accountable and track your progress on a weekly basis. Your best tool will be a measuring tape. If the waist line starts growing too fast, you need to pull back a bit. If the muscles are looking bigger/better and the waist stays the same, great!!!

Personally i'd still incorporate some type of cycling - carb/calorie cycling, but you don't HAVE to. I'd go with high carbs on workout days, moderate on off days, and possibly (but not necessary) a single low day (off day). I'd eat carbs in all meals on workout days with the possible exception of bedtime (personal preference). I'd probably only have carbs in 3 of 6 meals on off days - if you do so, you'll calorie/carb cycle by default.

If you want to run a consistent diet with the same calories every day, you can - but I don't find that to be optimal. Easier, no doubt - but not optimal.

Another tip - don't make the 'bulk' your excuse to eat whatever you want. You should be concerned with adding LEAN body mass and keeping bodyfat gains to a minimum. Keeping foods relatively clean will help you in achieving this. I always say - eat the same foods you cut with, just more of them. Yes, there is some leniency. Fruits. Dairy (milk) to an extent. But all the obvious BS (chips, fried foods, etc) still have no place in this diet, IMO.

Hope this helps, PLEASE keep us posted!

[gbrice75]

PS - I wouldn't necessarily go with 5x5 as my primary plan for growth. Strength doesn't always equate to growth. I'd look into more of a hypertrophy focused routine - after all, you're looking to add size and look better, not necessarily strength, right?

I'd throw 5x5 in possibly but it wouldn't be the basis for my routine. You might find GVT (10x10) type workouts to be even more beneficial towards your goal. HST is another training method you should look into. Basically total body workouts, high frequency training. Just my .02.

[Ben_66]

You have a great base and a very realistic goal. I'd like to see the workout specifics if you get a chance. Thanks for the thread, looking forward to the progress.

Thanks I appreciate that! Yeah I'm not quite sure about my workout anymore. I was going to go with 5x5 on compounds exercise till I reached 300 pounds on my Full Squats and change my workout routine after.

PS - I wouldn't necessarily go with 5x5 as my primary plan for growth. Strength doesn't always equate to growth. I'd look into more of a hypertrophy focused routine - after all, you're looking to add size and look better, not necessarily strength, right?

I'd throw 5x5 in possibly but it wouldn't be the basis for my routine. You might find GVT (10x10) type workouts to be even more beneficial towards your goal. HST is another training method you should look into. Basically total body workouts, high frequency training. Just my .02.

Thanks a lot GBrice! That's great advice! I wish I had you as my personal trainer/diet nutrition guy. I just finished reading on HST, very interesting! Never heard of it before. I have been working out for over 10 years. I have followed a lot of Bodybuilding.com workouts. I thought I was pretty advanced in this diet/workout stuff but I'm far from it (well better then 70% of the people out there). I appreciate all the new knowledge your giving us.

For diet part:

I'm going to follow what you mentioned on the more carb on workout days/ low carb on off days. I'm not going to be counting calories (only buy eye/ portion size) and going to buy a measuring tape to see if my waist gets any bigger.

Quick question:
I workout in the morning. my Pre workout meal will be:
-whey protein with skim milk/blue berrys with oatmeal in my shaker,
-workout
Postworkout meal: 2 scoop of whey with a banana and a cup of oatmeal.

What do you think?

I think this is the most important part I need to be 100% on.

[Ben_66]

Also what do you think about doing cardio twice a week Tue/Thur. morning empty stomach for 45 min. moderate pace?

[gbrice75]

Thanks I appreciate that! Yeah I'm not quite sure about my workout anymore. I was going to go with 5x5 on compounds exercise till I reached 300 pounds on my Full Squats and change my workout routine after.



Thanks a lot GBrice! That's great advice! I wish I had you as my personal trainer/diet nutrition guy.

I just finished reading on HST, very interesting! Never heard of it before. I have been working out for over 10 years. I have followed a lot of Bodybuilding.com workouts. I thought I was pretty advanced in this diet/workout stuff but I'm far from it (well better then 70% of the people out there). I appreciate all the new knowledge your giving us.

For diet part:

I'm going to follow what you mentioned on the more carb on workout days/ low carb on off days. I'm not going to be counting calories (only buy eye/ portion size) and going to buy a measuring tape to see if my waist gets any bigger.

Quick question:
I workout in the morning. my Pre workout meal will be:
-whey protein with skim milk/blue berrys with oatmeal in my shaker,
-workout
Postworkout meal: 2 scoop of whey with a banana and a cup of oatmeal.

What do you think?

Decent. I personally prefer a protein blend over straight whey, but this is fine. Seeing as you'll be eating quite a few calories on workout days, can't you add more food here? I don't know your quantities above, but can you fit a whole egg in + some whites?

PWO looks solid. Again, personal preference would be a protein blend (yes, even PWO) and an apple, but nothing wrong with what you have here.

I think this is the most important part I need to be 100% on.

All of it is!

Also what do you think about doing cardio twice a week Tue/Thur. morning empty stomach for 45 min. moderate pace?

Tues/Thurs are your off days, right? If so, I think that's an excellent idea. If you can fit a Saturday session in as well, that'd be even better. I'd stay away from PWO cardio for a little while (I know you didn't specify doing any, but just in case you were thinking of it.... ) just to see how you do as-is. It can always be added later if need be.

Go get em!!!

[Ben_66]

Decent. I personally prefer a protein blend over straight whey, but this is fine. Seeing as you'll be eating quite a few calories on workout days, can't you add more food here? I don't know your quantities above, but can you fit a whole egg in + some whites?

I get my whey protein at Walmart 6 star, it was on sale for 29.98 $ for 4 lbs (Canadian). So much cheaper, I would definitely choose blend over whey.
Yes I can add more food. I can fit 1 egg and 4 egg whites. Should the egg and the whites be consumed Pre and Post for optimal benefits?

PWO looks solid. Again, personal preference would be a protein blend (yes, even PWO) and an apple, but nothing wrong with what you have here.



All of it is!



Tues/Thurs are your off days, right? If so, I think that's an excellent idea. If you can fit a Saturday session in as well, that'd be even better. I'd stay away from PWO cardio for a little while (I know you didn't specify doing any, but just in case you were thinking of it.... ) just to see how you do as-is. It can always be added later if need be.

Yeah I would not want to do cardio after my workout, I don't want to risk over training. Saturdays I can't in the morning, I work so Possibly after work or if I get super early.


Go get em!!!

Thanks again!

[Ben_66]

Ahh man, I wrote my answers in the quotes.

[gbrice75]

No problem on the protein. Re: the eggs - not necessarily PWO. I was just kicking it around as a possibility with your preworkout meal.

[Ben_66]

No problem on the protein. Re: the eggs - not necessarily PWO. I was just kicking it around as a possibility with your preworkout meal.

Awesome! just 2 more question if you dont mind and I'll have everything in place.

I would like to add greek yogurt (plain 0%) to my diet. I love the taste. what would you recommend as a desert to help add more calories or put in your shake or take it out of the diet?

And also I love eye round steak ( i buy them in pack of 2). Is 2 of them to much per meal? It would be 48 protein and 20 fat and no carbs with 2.

Thanks

[gbrice75]

Awesome! just 2 more question if you dont mind and I'll have everything in place.

I would like to add greek yogurt (plain 0%) to my diet. I love the taste. what would you recommend as a desert to help add more calories or put in your shake or take it out of the diet?

Not exactly sure what you're asking here. Are you asking what type of desserts you can make using plain nonfat greek yogurt?

And also I love eye round steak ( i buy them in pack of 2). Is 2 of them to much per meal? It would be 48 protein and 20 fat and no carbs with 2.
Thanks

If they fit into your macros for the day, then no. Can you get a bit of a leaner cut? Top round would be a great choice, but not as tasty.

[Ben_66]

Not exactly sure what you're asking here. Are you asking what type of desserts you can make using plain nonfat greek yogurt?

I don't even know anymore... I'm taking greek yogurt out. I'm just going to go with the same diet I had but less cardio and more calories and also more calories on my Pre Workout meal and Post work out meal.



If they fit into your macros for the day, then no. Can you get a bit of a leaner cut? Top round would be a great choice, but not as tasty.

Top round eh? cool.


My diet:
Pre workout meal: 1 scoop of whey with oat meal, blue berrys and skim milk. (will add one egg and white next grocery day)
Work out:
Post work out meal: 2 scoop of whey with oatmeal and a banana.
1H and 30 minutes to maybe 2 hours later: 2 eggs with 8 egg whites and oat
chicken with brown rice and brocoli (maybe add a couple fish oil pills)
Top round steak with sweet potato and brocoli
chicken with borcolli and green leafs with some olive oil.
Protein casein shake with skim milk and a tps of peanut butter. (will fight the urge to drown myself in PB)
Bed,

On none workout days I will take out one of the carbs out and just have fibrous veggies.

I'm learning through Trial and Error and will most likely be twicking it around a lot.

Please and recommendation is appreciated.

[M37H]

For someone that is 162 pounds your lookin bigger than that. I'm the same weight but don't look as big maybe because you has a lower bf? I'm at %11 .

[Ben_66]

For someone that is 162 pounds your lookin bigger than that. I'm the same weight but don't look as big maybe because you has a lower bf? I'm at %11 .

Yeah I know It's crazy, I have a small ass and my legs arent the biggest, I guess That could be a reason why.


Well this bulking is not going well, I weighted myself this morning 168 pounds. Mostly fat (6 pounds!). (f***g PB)

I'm going to start counting calories and reduce my carb intake.

[fatman225]

Ben, if you are willing to experiment with it, I honestly believe that what most folks suggest for bulking, like 500 calorie surplus daily, may actually be way too much. I have been wondering lately if gains could be made with only a 5-10% increase. Its worth giving a shot, just don't dirty bulk whatever you do. You look GOOD in the OP photo and excess calories will change that. After being in a cutting stage for a while now, due to my past dirty bulk eating, I've learned a hard lesson. Simply put, if I ever "bulk" again, it will be the minimum calorie increase to build muscle. Anything extra becomes fat. Also, set an upper limit to the amount of fat you are willing to gain, if you hit that limit, got to cut back down again.

[gbrice75]

^^ Agreed that the body really only needs a small surplus to grow. You'll see me say this all the time - more is not better when it comes to bulking. Your body will use what it can use, and the rest will be wasted and/or stored as bodyfat. Having said that, 500 calories above maintenance is a general starting point based on the idea that you'll need a 3500 calorie surplus in a week in order to add 1lb. 500 calories per day x 7 days = 3500. Now, we know our bodies don't work like this - i.e. they don't wait until the end of the week (or end of the day for that matter) to add everything up. Again, it's a general starting point based on a simple (but somewhat flawed) logic. You will ALWAYS need to monitor your progress and make adjustments until you're dialed in and making lean gains.

[Ben_66]

Ben, if you are willing to experiment with it, I honestly believe that what most folks suggest for bulking, like 500 calorie surplus daily, may actually be way too much. I have been wondering lately if gains could be made with only a 5-10% increase. Its worth giving a shot, just don't dirty bulk whatever you do. You look GOOD in the OP photo and excess calories will change that. After being in a cutting stage for a while now, due to my past dirty bulk eating, I've learned a hard lesson. Simply put, if I ever "bulk" again, it will be the minimum calorie increase to build muscle. Anything extra becomes fat. Also, set an upper limit to the amount of fat you are willing to gain, if you hit that limit, got to cut back down again.

Thanks Fatman, I'm actually going that way. I think from quitting kickboxing I have a lot more calories coming in.

^^ Agreed that the body really only needs a small surplus to grow. You'll see me say this all the time - more is not better when it comes to bulking. Your body will use what it can use, and the rest will be wasted and/or stored as bodyfat. Having said that, 500 calories above maintenance is a general starting point based on the idea that you'll need a 3500 calorie surplus in a week in order to add 1lb. 500 calories per day x 7 days = 3500. Now, we know our bodies don't work like this - i.e. they don't wait until the end of the week (or end of the day for that matter) to add everything up. Again, it's a general starting point based on a simple (but somewhat flawed) logic. You will ALWAYS need to monitor your progress and make adjustments until you're dialed in and making lean gains.

Thanks Gbrice. good to see you back.

I'm going to go with the approach of carb cycling again and never buiying peanut butter again. No carbs after 5pm. and on non workout day take out another carb meal.

[Ben_66]

update**

I weighed myself this morning after going to the bathroom and was a whopping 173pounds. I think I might of added probably 2-3% body fat (pic at bottom)

My workout outs are 5X5 to get my strenght up and really focus getting stronger with my squats. every exercise I add 5lb, I'm adapting very well to this program. I do squats now every Mon/Wed/Fri 5x5, Some might think this would be overtraining.

As soon as I get to 180 I will start my zig zag diet and planning to do a cycle sometime in October.

[gbrice75]

update**

I weighed myself this morning after going to the bathroom and was a whopping 173pounds. I think I might of added probably 2-3% body fat (pic at bottom)

Stop stressing bro, you're looking good. Probably no more than 12% or so.

My workout outs are 5X5 to get my strenght up and really focus getting stronger with my squats. every exercise I add 5lb, I'm adapting very well to this program. I do squats now every Mon/Wed/Fri 5x5, Some might think this would be overtraining.

Wow, that is quite a bit of work! I've worked the same groups 3x a week before, but not with that amount of volume. Hey, if it's working for you, stick with it.

As soon as I get to 180 I will start my zig zag diet and planning to do a cycle sometime in October.

Looking forward to watching your progress!