*** DISCUSSION *** OVERTRAINING: Fact or Myth? I'm calling BS

[gbrice75]

Hi All, your old pal GB here.

Yes, this belongs in the workout section. But seeing as I spend 90% of my time here, this is where it's staying... deal!

This thread will serve as a friendly discussion with regards to overtraining. You hear about it all the time. So many people use the term and don't really understand what it means from a physiological standpoint.

Personally, I think it's a grossly overblown concept and even grosser overused term. Calling it a myth would be a stretch... because I do believe the condition can be reached... but not nearly as easily as most people tend to think. Somebody years ago mentioned it in a bodybuilding mag, and it got handed down and repeated, over and over again, until it became gospel. I would imagine that in everyone's effort to avoid overtraining, they're shortchanging themselves by letting opportunities to stimulate more growth slip by while they 'recover'.

Note I am referring to people who have a decent grasp on nutrition and the other big factors (sleep, training, supplementation, etc). Sure I could easily reach an overtrained state if I were to work the same muscle group every day for weeks while consuming a low protein 1200 calorie/day diet with little sleep. But for those of us who have these things in check for the most part, I don't think an overtrained state is NEARLY that easy to reach.

I absolutely do not believe any muscle group (with the POSSIBLE exception of legs) needs 6+ days to recover before being worked again. Even legs can be worked 2x a week (even 3 depending on your training style) unless you are absolutely DESTROYING them... which is not necessary to stimulate muscle growth. Damaging a muscle beyond the point of stimulating growth doesn't stimulate more growth; it simply adds to recovery time. But I digress. That's another discussion for another day.

Try telling a professional athlete that he or she is overtraining. Have you ever looked at the bodies of acrobats? They train total body workouts (just by practicing their routines) for hours a day. Do they look like they're losing muscle? Do they look overtrained?

Have you ever looked at the legs of a professional cyclist? They clock hundreds of miles a week. Do their legs look small? BUT ALL THAT WORK!!!!

You can make the argument that professional athletes have the very best doctors, nutritionists, trainers etc. at their disposal, and while you'd be right, I don't really see it as a valid argument. They eat the same food we do. They sleep through the same mechanisms we do. The only real advantage they have in my eyes is the professional guidance - BUT we are informed people, right? We seek knowledge to better ourselves. We monitor ourselves to see what works, and what doesn't. We can't just blindly follow a plan without reevaluating. That would be just plain dumb.

You would know if you were overtrained. You'd have no energy. You'd be irritable. You'd have no motivation and would probably feel depressed. You'd lack strength and enthusiasm. Your CNS would likely be fried. Now don't get me wrong - I don't think people should actually get to this point before backing off. That's not what this is about. It's about sitting there resting a perfectly healthy muscle group for days on end because you 'killed it' in the gym. From what I can see, most people don't train nearly as hard as they claim to.

So I say train. High volume. High reps. Low reps. High frequency. See what works best for you. Push your body to it's limits. You aren't supposed to feel 'comfortable'. It's all about pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. Nobody grows from just walking around through the gym arbitrarily bouncing from machine to machine, then thinking they need to rest for a week. I see this 80% of the time.

Feel free to comment. Expand on what I've said, or refute it. Either way, please keep it respectful.

[Tx89]

Dude, I am 100% with you! People need to realize that the decisive factor concerning overtaining is CNS(!!) and not the muscles. Muscles will adapt to almost every Humanly possible Training frequency. Cns however will not. So how do we get in maximum number of stimuli per week/month/year in without busting CNS? Easy, by training TO the personal limit, but not OVER. Avoiding failure, which anyway is not necessary for hypertrophy.
I personally have made the best Progress ever Training this way:-)
I either do 6 whole body sessions a week or if I feel like gettin a little closer to failure and turning the volume up a bit I do a 2day split trained 5 times a week.
Every 6-7weeks One complete week off. Combined with IF Nutrition approach this fkin rocks!

[LiveFitBeFit]

TRUE TRUE TRUE! Yes, Seriously I have been preaching this to so many people the past few years. My dad did bodybuilding in the early 90's and when we lift he tells me that I am "overtraining" all the time... I laugh in his face. All because I like to do high volume and push my limits doesn't mean i'm over training. I totally agree with you GB. Love talking about this topic. People always tell me, "you can't over train, you can only under eat!" Lol
.

[< <Samson> >]

What about overlapping workouts? This may be not the proper word for it. But, what I mean - Lets say you do a bicep day then 3 days later you are doing a back only day.

On the back workout day you are also hitting your biceps but only as a secondary muscle group.

Should you really throw in another bicep day theoretically?

[gbrice75]

What about overlapping workouts? This may be not the proper word for it. But, what I mean - Lets say you do a bicep day then 3 days later you are doing a back only day.

On the back workout day you are also hitting your biceps but only as a secondary muscle group.

Should you really throw in another bicep day theoretically?

It's hard for me to answer, because I personally think single bodypart training splits are ridiculous and inefficient wastes of time... i.e. i'd be training back and bi's on the same day if anything... but i'd say probably not, simply because biceps are such a small mucle. However, I don't think training them additionally will make them 'shrink'. Trial and error. If you see growth one way but not the other, then you know what to stick with.

[< <Samson> >]

It really is trial and error. The bottom line is you need to be in tune with your body, on what you want it to do and look like.

It does take time and some trial and error.

This is my first time of focusing on individual body parts, it seems to work pretty darn well. But, I still don't stick to just "one" body part. On bi day I will add in squats, on tri day I add in abs and so on. . . . It's been working so far.


You also need to remember to switch up your routines semi regularly. There was a time when I did the same exact workout for almost a year and seen damn near no results, yet had no idea why.

[gbrice75]

I'm big on switching up routines... for the sake of sanity if nothing else. There's nothing worse than trudging into the gym to do the same old routine again. Keeping it fresh = maintaining your interest and desire to train.

[< <Samson> >]

I'm big on switching up routines... for the sake of sanity if nothing else. There's nothing worse than trudging into the gym to do the same old routine again. Keeping it fresh = maintaining your interest and desire to train.

For sure, I like throwing random shit into my workouts every whenever.


I dunno, I wish there was just a total set routine to get certain gains without guesstimation.

[mockery]

stretching between sets cause im to old and fat to do it at home or after? your thoughts?

[Tx89]

I would only stretch after weights. Before or in between gives me less strength somehow

[YOLO10742]

Hi All, your old pal GB here.

Yes, this belongs in the workout section. But seeing as I spend 90% of my time here, this is where it's staying... deal!

This thread will serve as a friendly discussion with regards to overtraining. You hear about it all the time. So many people use the term and don't really understand what it means from a physiological standpoint.

Personally, I think it's a grossly overblown concept and even grosser overused term. Calling it a myth would be a stretch... because I do believe the condition can be reached... but not nearly as easily as most people tend to think. Somebody years ago mentioned it in a bodybuilding mag, and it got handed down and repeated, over and over again, until it became gospel. I would imagine that in everyone's effort to avoid overtraining, they're shortchanging themselves by letting opportunities to stimulate more growth slip by while they 'recover'.

Note I am referring to people who have a decent grasp on nutrition and the other big factors (sleep, training, supplementation, etc). Sure I could easily reach an overtrained state if I were to work the same muscle group every day for weeks while consuming a low protein 1200 calorie/day diet with little sleep. But for those of us who have these things in check for the most part, I don't think an overtrained state is NEARLY that easy to reach.

I absolutely do not believe any muscle group (with the POSSIBLE exception of legs) needs 6+ days to recover before being worked again. Even legs can be worked 2x a week (even 3 depending on your training style) unless you are absolutely DESTROYING them... which is not necessary to stimulate muscle growth. Damaging a muscle beyond the point of stimulating growth doesn't stimulate more growth; it simply adds to recovery time. But I digress. That's another discussion for another day.

Try telling a professional athlete that he or she is overtraining. Have you ever looked at the bodies of acrobats? They train total body workouts (just by practicing their routines) for hours a day. Do they look like they're losing muscle? Do they look overtrained?

Have you ever looked at the legs of a professional cyclist? They clock hundreds of miles a week. Do their legs look small? BUT ALL THAT WORK!!!!

You can make the argument that professional athletes have the very best doctors, nutritionists, trainers etc. at their disposal, and while you'd be right, I don't really see it as a valid argument. They eat the same food we do. They sleep through the same mechanisms we do. The only real advantage they have in my eyes is the professional guidance - BUT we are informed people, right? We seek knowledge to better ourselves. We monitor ourselves to see what works, and what doesn't. We can't just blindly follow a plan without reevaluating. That would be just plain dumb.

You would know if you were overtrained. You'd have no energy. You'd be irritable. You'd have no motivation and would probably feel depressed. You'd lack strength and enthusiasm. Your CNS would likely be fried. Now don't get me wrong - I don't think people should actually get to this point before backing off. That's not what this is about. It's about sitting there resting a perfectly healthy muscle group for days on end because you 'killed it' in the gym. From what I can see, most people don't train nearly as hard as they claim to.

So I say train. High volume. High reps. Low reps. High frequency. See what works best for you. Push your body to it's limits. You aren't supposed to feel 'comfortable'. It's all about pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. Nobody grows from just walking around through the gym arbitrarily bouncing from machine to machine, then thinking they need to rest for a week. I see this 80% of the time.

Feel free to comment. Expand on what I've said, or refute it. Either way, please keep it respectful.

Totally agree with you mate!!reckon we can see your weekly training routine????

[mockery]

Totally agree with you mate!!reckon we can see your weekly training routine????

His weekly routine is a upper / lower split. He uses his lower body to kick my ass and his upper body to slap 405 around for our over thinking tendencies haha,

This paragraph just expelled 78 calories

[mockery]

For sure, I like throwing random shit into my workouts every whenever.


I dunno, I wish there was just a total set routine to get certain gains without guesstimation.

Any routine is the best, get off the couch. Heaps of bodybuilders in every gym have poor lifting technique, no log book and spent rest periods reading muscle mags. They are not strong yet they grow, just get off the net and go lift. Today is 45 mins tops in the gym. Arnold trained 5 hours a day, look at him and look at today's 45 minute weekend warrior, big arms semi big chest that's concaved in the centre. No leg, lower back size and shroulder girdle not even developed. Only size they have is their body by Deca bloat. / rant

[< <Samson> >]

Today is 45 mins tops in the gym. Arnold trained 5 hours a day, look at him and look at today's 45 minute weekend warrior, big arms semi big chest that's concaved in the centre. No leg, lower back size and shroulder girdle not even developed. Only size they have is their body by Deca bloat. / rant

Oh yeah, direct comparison

[mockery]

Oh yeah, direct comparison

half the kids in gyms these days are on gear. i just joined a new gym and i swear every 18- 23 year old is on. you can tell the stupid ones who are using tren that have a waterfall of sweet and bright red faces, deca bloat or just taking orals and have yellow skin and using full stacks of weight on every life fitness machine., but they dont train or eat like Arnold. Even if they did they wont look like him, BUT they could look ALOT better or even better if they have the genetics.

im just angry, when i was 19 i grew like a weed had the genetics to make a living. but decided to spend the next 11 years of my life playing online games and binge drinking and chasing women. im just bitter,

fact remains, get off teh couch and lift.

look at your before and after pics, you did gear and you got fat and bloated. Again someone who ignored their diet and its importance. You were very proud of your pictures of you 100's of supplement powders and drinks you keep in your closet. then at the end of your cycle you wanted to stay on longer cause you were not making gains. im not hating im stating a fact, you should make a thread in the anabolic forum about your experience and why people shouldn't make the same mistake as you.

[< <Samson> >]

half the kids in gyms these days are on gear. i just joined a new gym and i swear every 18- 23 year old is on. you can tell the stupid ones who are using tren that have a waterfall of sweet and bright red faces, deca bloat or just taking orals and have yellow skin and using full stacks of weight on every life fitness machine

Ha ha ha, it's so true. I seem em' grow like weeds over summer. Seems like mostly college guys. . . .


But, yes - understand what you do. There is such a thing as overworking yourself, but who is close? I don't see people crawling out of the gym. Not a real comparison but, Arnold lifted until he puked. . . . Who has that drive? Not many

[mockery]

Over training comes down to how your CNS responds and recovers. And understanding the importance of post work out nutrition can help this factor a lot. Power lifters are familiar with fatigued CNS. Doing negatives for hypertrophy is another example. But as im saying there doesn't have to be a perfect routine that everyone looks for. just lift weights, thats the secret... get to the gym

[kronik420]

ok time to change routine again,been doing 1 body part per day might try:
Monday chest, triceps, biceps
Tuesday legs
Wednesday back, abs
Thursday chest, triceps, biceps
Friday shoulders, abs

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

When I'm cutting and my calories are lower then normal sometimes I can only handle 1 muscle group a day. This is also when I'm incorporating cardio 5-6x a week.

I was watching a documentary of Jay Cutler a few weeks ago and his wife had to massage and stretch him because he cramped up so bad in the middle of a routine. Her only explanation was over training, this was after he had been in the gym for over 2 hours and eating lower calories then what he is used to.

Unless you are eating and training like this I don't believe "over-training" is easily attainable.

There's maybe been 2-3 times in my life where I couldn't even roll out of bed because I was so soar and had such low energy, this was also when I was younger and did not have much knowledge on training and nutrition.