How many Carbs PWO?

[fatman225]

Once your body has run out of glycogen say after 40 hours, your body turns cattobolic temporary while changing over to ketotis. Your body will only be cattobolic for 12-24 hours,then when in ketotis your body will live off your stored fat reserves, your body while in ketotis can live off your stored bodyfat for over 4 months without food.

I disagree that after a workout your body is in a highly cattobolic state. Yes your glycogen is depleted, but cattobolic, no. Imo you can wait an hour or so to get your PWO meal, but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one lol

This is why I think daily fasts are perfectly safe for muscle preservation when losing bodyfat. I don't ever go over 24 hours without a meal, and that contains both carbs and fats most of the time within 4 hours of a workout. I've been on a steady cut now for about 6 months, and went from around 250 with an unknown bodyfat% and 44" waist all the way down to a current 187 with a 34" waist, with zero reduction in strength and my muscles certainly seem bigger if anything.

Granted for the last couple months have been on a test cycle, but when I started IF I was natty, and did not have any problems doing it. I think PWO does not have to be within 1 hour of WO, sure it may help a little bit, but in terms of actually results you can measure in terms of muscle gain, you would need a large group study. Two groups plus a control, and then have one test group consume a PWO within and hour, and the other after 4 hours passed (but the same meal), and then after several months compare and see if any significant changes in LBM have occurred.

Has anyone ever conducted such study? I have not found one. In my own body I have not found the PWO being within an hour to be critical.

[951thompson]

This is why I think daily fasts are perfectly safe for muscle preservation when losing bodyfat. I don't ever go over 24 hours without a meal, and that contains both carbs and fats most of the time within 4 hours of a workout. I've been on a steady cut now for about 6 months, and went from around 250 with an unknown bodyfat% and 44" waist all the way down to a current 187 with a 34" waist, with zero reduction in strength and my muscles certainly seem bigger if anything.

Granted for the last couple months have been on a test cycle, but when I started IF I was natty, and did not have any problems doing it. I think PWO does not have to be within 1 hour of WO, sure it may help a little bit, but in terms of actually results you can measure in terms of muscle gain, you would need a large group study. Two groups plus a control, and then have one test group consume a PWO within and hour, and the other after 4 hours passed (but the same meal), and then after several months compare and see if any significant changes in LBM have occurred.

Has anyone ever conducted such study? I have not found one. In my own body I have not found the PWO being within an hour to be critical.

I agree, when I cut I fast once per week for 36 hours ( eat stop eat style) also when cutting I train fasted ( fasted for 18 hours) none of these thing have made me lose muscle mass.

They many such studies, there is a recent one that suggests training fasted increases growth hormone .
Many study's suggest that if you have a decent pre workout meal there is no need for a immediate PWO meal.

Congratulations on your progress with you fat loss, I used to be fat also, so I know and respect where you are coming from, well done :-)

[gearbox]

Once your body has run out of glycogen say after 40 hours, your body turns cattobolic temporary while changing over to ketotis. Your body will only be cattobolic for 12-24 hours,then when in ketotis your body will live off your stored fat reserves, your body while in ketotis can live off your stored bodyfat for over 4 months without food.

I disagree that after a workout your body is in a highly cattobolic state. Yes your glycogen is depleted, but cattobolic, no. Imo you can wait an hour or so to get your PWO meal, but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one lol

Where is a study that shows we can live off stored bf for 4 months.

[951thompson]

Where is a study that shows we can live off stored bf for 4 months.

It's no secret, we people have been doing it since the days of Jesus, Jesus himself used to abscond from food for long periods of time. They are plenty of studies out there if you want to google it. There is one very interesting one that I have read, where a bunch of Swedish people travel a stupid amount of miles with no food. Taking them months, on return they where of full health.

I will try to find for you if you please? But yeah google will lead you to studies, people have been absconding from food for religious reasons since the dawn of time.

[951thompson]

Where is a study that shows we can live off stored bf for 4 months.

This is from Wikipedia

Mohandas Gandhi was imprisoned in 1922, 1930, 1933 and 1942. Because of Gandhi's stature around the world, British authorities were loath to allow him to die in their custody. It is likely Britain's reputation would have suffered as a result of such an event. Gandhi engaged in several famous hunger strikes to protest British rule of India. Fasting was a non-violent way of communicating the message and sometimes dramatically achieve the reason for the protest. This was keeping with the rules of Satyagraha.

In addition to Gandhi, various others have used the hunger strike option during the Indian independence movement. Such figures include Jatin Das (who fasted to death) and Bhagat Singh 116th day of their fast, on October 5, 1929 that Bhagat Singh and Dutt gave up their strike (surpassing the 97 day world record for hunger strikes which was set by an Irish revolutionary). During this hunger strike that lasted 116 days and ended with the British succumbing to his wishes, he gained much popularity among the common Indians. Before the strike his popularity was limited mainly to the Punjab region.

After Indian Independence, freedom fighter Potti Sreeramulu used hunger strikes to get a separate state for Telugu-speaking people. Morarji Desai went on fast twice during NAVNIRMAN in the seventies and prior to that Indulal Yagnik alias Indu Chacha went on a long fast during Maha Gujarat and thereafter in the seventies.

[RaginCajun]

This is from Wikipedia

Mohandas Gandhi was imprisoned in 1922, 1930, 1933 and 1942. Because of Gandhi's stature around the world, British authorities were loath to allow him to die in their custody. It is likely Britain's reputation would have suffered as a result of such an event. Gandhi engaged in several famous hunger strikes to protest British rule of India. Fasting was a non-violent way of communicating the message and sometimes dramatically achieve the reason for the protest. This was keeping with the rules of Satyagraha.

In addition to Gandhi, various others have used the hunger strike option during the Indian independence movement. Such figures include Jatin Das (who fasted to death) and Bhagat Singh 116th day of their fast, on October 5, 1929 that Bhagat Singh and Dutt gave up their strike (surpassing the 97 day world record for hunger strikes which was set by an Irish revolutionary). During this hunger strike that lasted 116 days and ended with the British succumbing to his wishes, he gained much popularity among the common Indians. Before the strike his popularity was limited mainly to the Punjab region.

After Indian Independence, freedom fighter Potti Sreeramulu used hunger strikes to get a separate state for Telugu-speaking people. Morarji Desai went on fast twice during NAVNIRMAN in the seventies and prior to that Indulal Yagnik alias Indu Chacha went on a long fast during Maha Gujarat and thereafter in the seventies.

anyone can post on wikipedia. what we are asking for is a scientific article/journal entry.

[GirlyGymRat]

u guys are still going at it i see..

yup!

[951thompson]

anyone can post on wikipedia. what we are asking for is a scientific article/journal entry.

Do you know who Ghandi is? (one of the most famous people to ever of lived) the info is not hard to find my friend, if your interested. Google it ;-)

[951thompson]

anyone can post on wikipedia. what we are asking for is a scientific article/journal entry.

The world record for hunger strike is 385 days, wowza he must of been a dead man walking lol

Who holds the guinness world record for longest hunger strike?

In: Society & Culture > Demographics Searching for longest ever recorded hunger strike? The Hunger Strike amazon.co.uk/The Hunger Strike Low Prices on The Hunger Strike. Free UK Delivery on

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Dennis Galer Goodwin is a U.K. in Guinness World Records as going on the world's longest hunger strike, lasting 385 days in 1973.

[Capebuffalo]

FYI


He pointed out that the longest hunger strike ended in 1973 after 385 days when Dennis Galer Goodwin protested his innocence in Wakefield Prison, West Yorkshire, of a rape charge. He was fed by tube orally.


Your awesome 951.

[AXx]

The world record for hunger strike is 385 days, wowza he must of been a dead man walking lol

Who holds the guinness world record for longest hunger strike?

In: Society & Culture > Demographics Searching for longest ever recorded hunger strike? The Hunger Strike amazon.co.uk/The Hunger Strike Low Prices on The Hunger Strike. Free UK Delivery on

Ads by Chitika

Dennis Galer Goodwin is a U.K. in Guinness World Records as going on the world's longest hunger strike, lasting 385 days in 1973.

Why are your replies so condescending towards people??

[RaginCajun]

The world record for hunger strike is 385 days, wowza he must of been a dead man walking lol

Who holds the guinness world record for longest hunger strike?

In: Society & Culture > Demographics Searching for longest ever recorded hunger strike? The Hunger Strike amazon.co.uk/The Hunger Strike Low Prices on The Hunger Strike. Free UK Delivery on

Ads by Chitika

Dennis Galer Goodwin is a U.K. in Guinness World Records as going on the world's longest hunger strike, lasting 385 days in 1973.

Still waiting on the articles.

[AXx]

Why are your replies so condescending towards people??

I still wanna know this. If you have a valid point then you should be able to relay it without telling someone to google it.

Words of wisdom, you can catch more flies with sugar then you can $hit!

[Live for the PUMP]

Once your body has run out of glycogen say after 40 hours, your body turns cattobolic temporary while changing over to ketotis. Your body will only be cattobolic for 12-24 hours,then when in ketotis your body will live off your stored fat reserves, your body while in ketotis can live off your stored bodyfat for over 4 months without food.

I disagree that after a workout your body is in a highly cattobolic state. Yes your glycogen is depleted, but cattobolic, no. Imo you can wait an hour or so to get your PWO meal, but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one lol

You have totally ruined my thread with this endless B.S. Are you kidding me?! We can live 4 months without food off of our stored BF?! If someone is stupid enough to believe you they should just shoot themselves.
You remind me of a guy I went to college with. Biggest Bull $hitter to mankind. This guy would create the wildest stories and if you disagreed he got really angry. Only difference between you and him is...well nevermind there is no differences. I wish I could find a post of yours I could have a positive response to. I really looked, but sorry haven't found anything. Not trying to declare WAR again bud, just a bit annoying reading all this as it is in MY thread. No that I finally replied everyone will squander here...

[951thompson]

You have totally ruined my thread with this endless B.S. Are you kidding me?! We can live 4 months without food off of our stored BF?! If someone is stupid enough to believe you they should just shoot themselves.
You remind me of a guy I went to college with. Biggest Bull $hitter to mankind. This guy would create the wildest stories and if you disagreed he got really angry. Only difference between you and him is...well nevermind there is no differences. I wish I could find a post of yours I could have a positive response to. I really looked, but sorry haven't found anything. Not trying to declare WAR again bud, just a bit annoying reading all this as it is in MY thread. No that I finally replied everyone will squander here...

No the fact is I replied to bon, and again people are trying to mince my words once again. What's so hard to believe that we can live without food. Bears do it for months when in hibernation for months, as do penguins, seals and many other animals too, why Is so hard to believe humans cant do this. Guinness world records don't give records to anyone, the have to be regulated and fully checked (385 days) the magician David Blaine sat in a see though glass box suspended in the air while absconding from food for over 40 days.

It's not uncommon for green guys to detox for a month (look it up)

I see everthing I say on this thread is going to be criticized so I expect no less. You are not a open minded person.


You people are not open to new ideas, as much as I prove my case! All you have to come back with is "your full of shit" no point or info to indicate that to be the case. Hey maybe what you can smell is your own nose too close to your own ass?

I will not comment on your thread no more. You people can't debate with respect!

[Bulkn]

951 please give up. You talk about how fasting works and you dont lose muscle but no offence i dont see any size on you and you dont look lean at all.

[951thompson]

951 please give up. You talk about how fasting works and you dont lose muscle but no offence i dont see any size on you and you dont look lean at all.

That's an ignorant way of looking at it, there are many cases out there that prove it works. I am currently 185lb at 12.5% that's not light and fairly lean. Im bulking at the moment so im holding a high bodyfat. I start cutting in November. Follow my log, if I haven't achieved my goal by the end of April next year, you can say what you pls about fasting. I will put my money where my mouth is!

You can't make a point by saying you don't look very lean, that's not proof. I have given you people a scientific explanation, all you guys reply with us your talking bullshit or you fat. Im wasting my time. You ask for studies and evidence, I give you it, it's not enough.
I prove my point, then you guys start an argument about something else.
Human can live for very long periods of time without food (fact) you people have no argument. You can call me Fat all you want does'nt prove a thing your say correct.

I deal with facts, not hear say!

Check out GPrice thread and the progress he has made using IF

Im nit wasting my time on this thread no more, you people are borderline ignorant!

[AXx]

Well you still never answered my question?? I have asked you twice??

[951thompson]

Well you still never answered my question?? I have asked you twice??

Why should I keep proving myself to you people on this thread. If you want to learn about fasting, do your own research. Why should I give you my time and effort. I have given you proof time and time again, im wasting my time here. I've proved my point by showing you the Guinness world record. Why don't you show me some evidence that proves what im saying is wrong. You can't argue against the world record /385 days)

Isnt this thread supposed to be about PWO nutrition?

Answer- yes it is! People are pointlessly taking the subject off topic, picking at my comments!

My friend you have no point here!

This whole argument is plain stupid, and is totally off topic. I was trying to have an intelligent conversation with bon, until you haters arrived.

Keep hating people, I love it!

This is my very last post.

[Capebuffalo]

Why should I keep proving myself to you people on this thread. If you want to learn about fasting, do your own research. Why should I give you my time and effort. I have given you proof time and time again, im wasting my time here. I've proved my point by showing you the Guinness world record. Why don't you show me some evidence that proves what im saying is wrong. You can't argue against the world record /385 days)

Isnt this thread supposed to be about PWO nutrition?

Answer- yes it is! People are pointlessly taking the subject off topic, picking at my comments!

My friend you have no point here!

This whole argument is plain stupid, and is totally off topic. I was trying to have an intelligent conversation with bon, until you haters arrived.

Keep hating people, I love it!

This is my very last post. (boring)

Dumb aas. He was tube fed during that year. He was on a hunger strike and force fed.
You can't think he didn't eat for over a year

And 185 isn't light if your 5-5

[AXx]

Why should I keep proving myself to you people on this thread. If you want to learn about fasting, do your own research. Why should I give you my time and effort. I have given you proof time and time again, im wasting my time here. I've proved my point by showing you the Guinness world record. Why don't you show me some evidence that proves what im saying is wrong. You can't argue against the world record /385 days)

Isnt this thread supposed to be about PWO nutrition?

Answer- yes it is! People are pointlessly taking the subject off topic, picking at my comments!

My friend you have no point here!

This whole argument is plain stupid, and is totally off topic. I was trying to have an intelligent conversation with bon, until you haters arrived.

Keep hating people, I love it!

This is my very last post.

My question had nothing to do with the thread I was simply stepping up asking why you answer people in a condescending tone.

I have used IF, I did well on it. I chose not to do it while bulking but may eventually go back while cutting in the spring. But you continue to tell peoria how ignorant they are. There are many skilled people in the area of diet and gear on this board. Just because you are passionate about something doesn't mean everyone else that doesn't agree with you are fvcken retards.

SO YES I DID HAVE A POINT.

[RaginCajun]

That's an ignorant way of looking at it, there are many cases out there that prove it works. I am currently 185lb at 12.5% that's not light and fairly lean. Im bulking at the moment so im holding a high bodyfat. I start cutting in November. Follow my log, if I haven't achieved my goal by the end of April next year, you can say what you pls about fasting. I will put my money where my mouth is!

You can't make a point by saying you don't look very lean, that's not proof. I have given you people a scientific explanation, all you guys reply with us your talking bullshit or you fat. Im wasting my time. You ask for studies and evidence, I give you it, it's not enough.
I prove my point, then you guys start an argument about something else.
Human can live for very long periods of time without food (fact) you people have no argument. You can call me Fat all you want does'nt prove a thing your say correct.

I deal with facts, not hear say!

Check out GPrice thread and the progress he has made using IF

Im nit wasting my time on this thread no more, you people are borderline ignorant!

No, I'm not ignorant at all. All I asked for is proven research to your points. I did the IF diet all year and I'm getting leaner, not arguing the point of that, Martin berkman has great articles/research on it.

[Capebuffalo]

This is from Wikipedia

Thompson951 was imprisoned in 1922, 1930, 1933 and 1942. Because of Gandhi's stature around the world, British authorities were loath to allow him to die in their custody. It is likely Britain's reputation would have suffered as a result of such an event. Thompson951 engaged in several famous hunger strikes to protest British rule of India. Fasting was a non-violent way of communicating the message and sometimes dramatically achieve the reason for the protest. This was keeping with the rules of Satyagraha.

In addition to Thompson951 various others have used the hunger strike option during the Indian independence movement. Such figures include Jatin Das (who fasted to death) and Bhagat Singh 116th day of their fast, on October 5, 1929 that Bhagat Singh and Dutt gave up their strike (surpassing the 97 day world record for hunger strikes which was set by an Irish revolutionary). During this hunger strike that lasted 116 days and ended with the British succumbing to his wishes, he gained much popularity among the common Indians. Before the strike his popularity was limited mainly to the Punjab region.

After Indian Independence, freedom fighter Thompson951 used hunger strikes to get a separate state for Telugu-speaking people. Thompson951 went on fast twice during NAVNIRMAN in the seventies and prior to that Indulal Yagnik alias Thompson951 went on a long fast during Maha Gujarat and thereafter in the seventies.

Please read the above from Wikipedia

[951thompson]

My question had nothing to do with the thread I was simply stepping up asking why you answer people in a condescending tone.

I have used IF, I did well on it. I chose not to do it while bulking but may eventually go back while cutting in the spring. But you continue to tell peoria how ignorant they are. There are many skilled people in the area of diet and gear on this board. Just because you are passionate about something doesn't mean everyone else that doesn't agree with you are fvcken retards.

SO YES I DID HAVE A POINT.

Well excuse me if I miss understanded what you ment. Sir with respect. I treat people how they treat me. If they show me respect I show them the same, treat one as they treat you is my motto. I have nothing against people having a different opinion to me, it's when someone comes up to me and says your opinion is bullshit, your opinion is not valid because you look fat in your photo. Liveforthepump started all this mess of by repeatedly disrespecting me. I have respect for everyones point of view and would never dream of calling someone a retarded for expressing it. All im doing here is putting my point of view across.

Have you see me insulting anyone today, unlike other childish people here towards me?

Im pleased you have had success with IF, I also have,it's something I really strongly believe in. It annoys me when someone says hey that's bullshit.

Peace

[Bulkn]

Some of your points are valid while some of them are NOT!

For total starvation in healthy individuals receiving adequate hydration, reliable data on survival are hard to obtain. At the age of 74 and already slight of build, Mahatma Gandhi, the famous nonviolent campaigner for India's independence, survived 21 days of total starvation while only allowing himself sips of water. In a 1997 article in the British Medical Journal, Michael Peel, senior medical examiner at the Medical Foundation for the Care of Victims of Torture, cites well-documented studies reporting survivals of other hunger strikers for 28, 36, 38 and 40 days. Most other reports of long-term survival of total starvation, however, have been poorly substantiated. [Editor's Note: Reports of the 1981 hunger strike by political prisoners against the British presence in Northeast Ireland indicate that 10 individuals died after periods of between 46 and 73 days without food.]

http://www.scientific american. com/article.cfm?id=how-long-can-a-person-sur

[951thompson]

Some of your points are valid while some of them are NOT!

http://www.scientific american. com/article.cfm?id=how-long-can-a-person-sur

This pretty much backs up what im saying (case dismissed)

[DanB]

why are you all talking about hunger strikers it has absolutely nothing to do with bodybuilding, bonapartes arguement, or the op's question

do you want to look like an euthopian? then by all means starve yourself for prolonged periods (days not hours)

951 stop trying change subjects and dig yourself out of holes

[Capebuffalo]

The Bulking Primer
By LeanMeOut & rambo @anabolicreview.com

Well since the old “How to Bulk” thread was erased with the server issues, we have decided to create this post with the details of how to gain lean mass with minimal fat gain.


The BASICS-
1. Postworkout Nutrition- I’m a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amo2. Carbs- unt of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

2.carbohydrates are a very helpful macronutrient when you are trying to gain lean mass. However, carbohydrates are only useful if they are used at the correct times. In my opionion carbohydrates are only necessary for 3 meals of the day. These meals include breakfast, your PWO Shake, and your PPWO Meal. Your breakfast and PPWO meals should be comprised of slow burning complex carbs that are low on the glycemic chart. Some good examples of low glycemic carbs are brown rice, yams, and oatmeal. Others may include whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta.

[951thompson]

why are you all talking about hunger strikers it has absolutely nothing to do with bodybuilding, bonapartes arguement, or the op's question

do you want to look like an euthopian? then by all means starve yourself for prolonged periods (days not hours)

951 stop trying change subjects and dig yourself out of holes

I never changed the subject, if you actually read the thread you might realize that! It's people picking at my comments that changed the subject.

[DanB]

I never changed the subject, if you actually read the thread you might realize that! It's people picking at my comments that changed the subject.

yes because your comments are irrelevant in the first place and like the op stated, you derailed his thread when he had a genuine question

and as cape pointed out, condesending answers such as above, if that is all you have to contribute then please keep it to yourself in the future

thanks

[Bulkn]

This pretty much backs up what im saying (case dismissed)

No its not, you said over 4 months and in one case 385 days.

[jsn23]

I always do- 2 scoops whey isolate, with a banana PWO. And on my low carb day I do half cup oats instead of the banana. I stick with either 25-50ish grams post workout.

put your oats in a food processor and it turns into a powder! makes it super easy to get carbs, just throw it in your whey shake

[Bulkn]

I never changed the subject, if you actually read the thread you might realize that! It's people picking at my comments that changed the subject.

I agree, your body feeds off you glycogen stores post work out. Anything you eat post workout will just top up your glycogen stores, if you are eating well though out the day, you don't need to eat straight after your workout.
People who intermittent fast prove this by going long periods of time without food, some even workout fasted, the fuel your body is using though the fasted period of time is your glycogen stores and fat reserves. It takes 48 hours without food for your body to run out of glycogen, then your body turns cattobolic. It takes 48 hours for your body to turn cattobolic! So in a nutshell there is no one hour window.

You kinda did there

[DanB]

You kinda did there

thank you

im on app so couldnt be arsed as he would prob just try keep digging lol

[austinite]

You kinda did there

lol, nice quotes there, Bulkn!

[951thompson]

yes because your comments are irrelevant in the first place and like the op stated, you derailed his thread when he had a genuine question

and as cape pointed out, condesending answers such as above, if that is all you have to contribute then please keep it to yourself in the future

thanks

Who are you? the ruler around here? I don't think so. I will voice my opinion as much as I like thank you!

I understand whats going on here, let's all have a witch hunt!

Im outta here,off to the gym, I've got better things to do then scwobble with you children all day.

Dude I wouldn't mind if you even had some substance behind your comments.

I get it, your trying to back your homie up, but pls do me a favour, save it!

I give you people information, you people give me insults, you guys don't know how to debate, your a bunch of sheep!

[Bulkn]

Anyway to get back on topic, it looks like the 2:1 carb : protein method looks good for bulking.
I think ill stick to having half simple and half complex carbs.
Cutting would be alot different, i would use a 1:1 carb : protein ratio with no simple carbs.

[austinite]

951, I think all they're asking is that you stay on topic. Nothing wrong with opinions.

[951thompson]

You kinda did there

No my friend that was like 3 weeks ago! We are talking about today ;-)

[951thompson]

951, I think all they're asking is that you stay on topic. Nothing wrong with opinions.

I was talking to bon, then these rude people hijacked our conversation. Switched the subject to hunger strike.

I get it it's lets have a witch hunt!