Post workout 'window'

[gbrice75]

^^ plus, he's old.

[gearbox]

[/B]

from what i know of u TR, difficult doesnt even come to mind! u seem like a patient, peace keeping type of guy (which is a good quality IMO)

what do u do for a living?

he wishes he got paid to cruise his harley from bar to bar across the country side read his interview and it says what he does not a living.

I will look for some data myself regarding this matter because I have heard both sides and agree with one based on what i have read but more studies can help support or change my thinking

[jimmyinkedup]

Alan Aragon:

The post-exercise “anabolic window” is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you’re an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx. 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase post-exercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn’t support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast post-exercise carb orgy for optimal results.

Something that people don’t realize is that there’s no “magic anabolic window” that’s open for a short period of time near the workout & then rapidly disappears. As a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours (Burd et al, 2011).

[RaginCajun]

[/B]

from what i know of u TR, difficult doesnt even come to mind! u seem like a patient, peace keeping type of guy (which is a good quality IMO)

what do u do for a living?

he is an accountant by trade and an old fart by time (he once spotted moses doing squats with boulders!)

[Sgt. Hartman]

Jimmy beat me to it but I was gonna say to check out Alan Aragon's web site, he has plenty of studies to back what he says up and is considered one of the sharpest minds in exercise nutrition.

I've posted a bunch of studies debunking the magic pwo window on here before too, I'll see if I can dig some up.

[Times Roman]

[/B]

from what i know of u TR, difficult doesnt even come to mind! u seem like a patient, peace keeping type of guy (which is a good quality IMO)

what do u do for a living?

he is an accountant by trade and an old fart by time (he once spotted moses doing squats with boulders!)

you blokes are a hoot!

i'M a Certified Public Accountant / Certified Management Accountant that typically works as a controller/cfo for manufacturing companies but lately been shifting to international work in the middle east. I was a tax accountant at a large regional firm 10 years ago in charge of tax research.

Fun shit, huh?

[GreMos]

you blokes are a hoot!

i'M a Certified Public Accountant / Certified Management Accountant that typically works as a controller/cfo for manufacturing companies but lately been shifting to international work in the middle east. I was a tax accountant at a large regional firm 10 years ago in charge of tax research.

Fun shit, huh?

... The CRA (Canada revenue agency) is makig me pay $1100 because of HST (harmonized sales taxes) returns from my past of being self employed. Help.

[Times Roman]

... The CRA (Canada revenue agency) is makig me pay $1100 because of HST (harmonized sales taxes) returns from my past of being self employed. Help.

at this point, it is probably too late to do anything but pay it.

you can always type up a letter of hardship asking for time payments.

Tax planning is something you do to strategically minimize tax liablilty. An ounce of prevention.......

[Times Roman]

Alan Aragon:

The post-exercise “anabolic window” is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you’re an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx. 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase post-exercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn’t support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast post-exercise carb orgy for optimal results.

Something that people don’t realize is that there’s no “magic anabolic window” that’s open for a short period of time near the workout & then rapidly disappears. As a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours (Burd et al, 2011).

Jimmy beat me to it but I was gonna say to check out Alan Aragon's web site, he has plenty of studies to back what he says up and is considered one of the sharpest minds in exercise nutrition.

I've posted a bunch of studies debunking the magic pwo window on here before too, I'll see if I can dig some up.

If you mates want to throw me a link to a few of these websites I'd be happy to do my own research. Even happy to post what i find. May even do it in another tthread for all to see, with links to the clinical data.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I know first hand how data can be interpretted to fit a particular bias. And the book I have and the clinical data it cites may somehow be funded by the supplement industry. Who knows?

[GreMos]

... The CRA (Canada revenue agency) is makig me pay $1100 because of HST (harmonized sales taxes) returns from my past of being self employed. Help.

Damn. looks like my new bed will have to wait til next week. Jesus!

[Sgt. Hartman]

Here's a couple I had stored on my comp.



The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE.
Source
Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.
Abstract
It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.




IJSNEM Volume 19, Issue 2, April
Original Research

Effect of Protein-Supplement Timing on Strength, Power, and Body-Composition Changes in Resistance-Trained Men

The effect of 10 wk of protein-supplement timing on strength, power, and body composition was examined in 33 resistance-trained men. Participants were randomly assigned to a protein supplement either provided in the morning and evening (n = 13) or provided immediately before and immediately after workouts (n = 13). In addition, 7 participants agreed to serve as a control group and did not use any protein or other nutritional supplement. During each testing session participants were assessed for strength (one-repetition-maximum [1RM] bench press and squat), power (5 repetitions performed at 80% of 1RM in both the bench press and the squat), and body composition. A significant main effect for all 3 groups in strength improvement was seen in 1RM bench press (120.6 ± 20.5 kg vs. 125.4 ± 16.7 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively) and 1RM squat (154.5 ± 28.4 kg vs. 169.0 ± 25.5 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively). However, no significant between-groups interactions were seen in 1RM squat or 1RM bench press. Significant main effects were also seen in both upper and lower body peak and mean power, but no significant differences were seen between groups. No changes in body mass or percent body fat were seen in any of the groups. Results indicate that the time of protein-supplement ingestion in resistance-trained athletes during a 10-wk training program does not provide any added benefit to strength, power, or body-composition changes.




IJSNEM Volume 18, Issue 1, February
Original Research

Carbohydrate-Protein Drinks Do Not Enhance Recovery From Exercise-Induced Muscle Injury

This study examined the effects of carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate-protein (CHO+PRO), or placebo (PLA) beverages on recovery from novel eccentric exercise. Female participants performed 30 min of downhill treadmill running (–12% grade, 8.0 mph), followed by consumption of a CHO, CHO+PRO, or PLA beverage immediately, 30, and 60 min after exercise. CHO and CHO+PRO groups (n = 6 per group) consumed 1.2 g · kg body weight–1 · hr–1 CHO, with the CHO+PRO group consuming an additional 0.3 g · kg body weight–1 · hr–1 PRO. The PLA group (n = 6) received an isovolumetric noncaloric beverage. Maximal isometric quadriceps strength (QUAD), lower extremity muscle soreness (SOR), and serum creatine kinase (CK) were assessed preinjury (PRE) and immediately and 1, 2, and 3 d postinjury to assess exercise-induced muscle injury and rate of recovery. There was no effect of treatment on recovery of QUAD (p = .21), SOR (p = .56), or CK (p = .59). In all groups, QUAD was reduced compared with PRE by 20.6% ± 1.5%, 17.2% ± 2.3%, and 11.3% ± 2.3% immediately, 1, and 2 d postinjury, respectively (p < .05). SOR peaked at 2 d postinjury (PRE vs. 2 d, 3.1 ± 1.0 vs. 54.0 ± 4.8 mm, p < .01), and serum CK peaked 1 d postinjury (PRE vs. 1 d, 138 ± 47 vs. 757 ± 144 U/L, p < .01). In conclusion, consuming a CHO+PRO or CHO beverage immediately after novel eccentric exercise failed to enhance recovery of exercise-induced muscle injury differently than what was observed with a PLA drink.






Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.
Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.
Source
Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

[Live for the PUMP]

Where were all you debator's in my PWO carb thread??? You guys just wanted to watch the fireworks with Thompson and I. uh huh...

Well I am with TR on this one. I have multiple books with highly credible authors backing it up. Not saying the other argument is wrong, I am no professional, I just know what I read. Anyway if by chance my publications are wrong it's not gonna hurt me to get my PWO recovery meal in ASAP. A guy needs a simple carb here and there anyways. Mine is Cream of Rice so don't think I am doing too much damage. Well the milk with whey isolate too.

[951thompson]

Damnit I didn't even get to read it

Sorry to let you down brother haha