How crucial to have complex carbs PPWO??

[Trying-Hard]

I know it is important to have complex carbs pre-workout out, PWO, and PPWO. But how important is it to consume complex carbs PPWO for muscle growth/development??

The issue at hand is that my PPWO happens to be my last meal of the day, and I am not sure how I feel about engorging myself with a crap load of complex carbs right before bed. I am bulking at the moment so it may not be so bad.

So my question is...should I change my current PPWO (see below) to include complex carbs? Or is my current PPWO sufficient despite the fact that it does not contain complex carbs?

M1: 6 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, 1c oats, 1 banana
M2: 2 tbs natural crunchy PB, 2 scoops of whey
M3: 6-8 oz chicken breast, 1 cup brown rice (cooked), salad bowl
Snack: 1/2 cup dry roasted edamame
M4: 1.5 cans tuna, 1 tbs oilve oil
M5: 1 cup Greek non-fat plain yogurt, 1/2 cup Ezekiel 4:9 sprouted grain cereal, .5 almonds, 2 scoops whey
workout
PWO: 2 white bagels, 2 scoops whey
PPWO: 1/2 cup cottage cheese, 1 tbs PB, 2 scoops whey

This meal plan is about 3700 calories, 320g carbs, 340g of protein, and around 100g fats.

Any help/advice would be much appreciated. Thank you!

TH

[gbrice75]

You don't need to 'engorge' yourself with carbs PPWO/before bed... or any other time of day. A simple meal containing a bit of carbs is fine given your goals.

PS - What are your current stats? Just from a personal preference standpoint, i'd likely drop protein and bump carbs a bit, and almost definitely would reduce fats in favor of carbs.

[baseline_9]

I agree with GB

Protein and fats don't need to be that high when consuming that many calories....

Protein especially

[Trying-Hard]

You don't need to 'engorge' yourself with carbs PPWO/before bed... or any other time of day. A simple meal containing a bit of carbs is fine given your goals.

PS - What are your current stats? Just from a personal preference standpoint, i'd likely drop protein and bump carbs a bit, and almost definitely would reduce fats in favor of carbs.

gbrice,

What meal would you recommend for PPWO, keeping in mind it is the one I will consume right before bed. I will most certainly revise my diet a tad and drop the protein / fats and up the carbs, especially since I have heard this before.

I am 5'7, 187 lbs morning weight, about 13%, on my first 12 week cycle of test - 500mg / wk - in my 6th week. Thanks.

[Trying-Hard]

I agree with GB

Protein and fats don't need to be that high when consuming that many calories....

Protein especially

Ok, so where should they be exactly, or around? Keep in mind I have a very hard time gaining weight - I am the pinnacle of an ecto, which is why I eat so much food and still barely put on weight.

[jimmyinkedup]

Then you def need to up carbs. ill let G give you his idea macro split for you but lower the protein for ure and up those carbs. If you are a hard giner i dont mind fats being higher than normal but even they could drop a tad.
JMO

[Trying-Hard]

Thanks, Jimmy. I will be certain to up the carbs and drop the fats. But I would like to hear from the vets is what the macro split should be around so I can tailor my diet accordingly.

Again, keeping in mind I have a very stubborn metabolism, even at age 30, and I am a true hard gainer.

I really would like to get this diet thing sorted once and for all. I have been chasing the right macro split for quite some time. Thanks everyone.

TH

[baseline_9]

Off the bat considering u say ur an ecto who struggles to gain weight I'd put u at about...

3475 cals
250 pro
450 carbs
75 fat

[Trying-Hard]

Off the bat considering u say ur an ecto who struggles to gain weight I'd put u at about...

3475 cals
250 pro
450 carbs
75 fat

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, base.

After the gym tonight I will go home and tailor my diet and see if I can come close to those macros. I would really appreciate it if I can get your input/advice (and gb's, Jimmy's, and other vets) after I post the revised diet with macros. I just want to do it right and quit second guessing my diet from week to week. I want to get a solid diet down and just follow it!

Thanks again.

[baseline_9]

Hang on for GB's macro advise too... Although I know GB and would expect he will be there abouts where my recommendations are..... He may change the carbs a little...

But TBH u just need to go with a plan and monitor... Then adjust when/ if required

[Trying-Hard]

Hang on for GB's macro advise too... Although I know GB and would expect he will be there abouts where my recommendations are..... He may change the carbs a little...

But TBH u just need to go with a plan and monitor... Then adjust when/ if required

I'll hold out for gb's advice before revising my diet. Thanks, base.

Gb, I thank you in advance for any forthcoming help, and anxiously awaiting your reply. =)

gb, sent you a PM.

[gbrice75]

Off the bat considering u say ur an ecto who struggles to gain weight I'd put u at about...

3475 cals
250 pro
450 carbs
75 fat

Man, this is spot on - pretty much exactly what i'd have you at. I wouldn't go over 275g protein at your stats. Carbs and fats look great here. Glad to see we're still thinking the same way with regards to macro splits Base!

I'll hold out for gb's advice before revising my diet. Thanks, base.

Gb, I thank you in advance for any forthcoming help, and anxiously awaiting your reply. =)

gb, sent you a PM.

Np bro, and i'll check out the PM in a minute - although I suggest you also post the revised diet here for a variety of feedback.

[Trying-Hard]

Thanks, gb, and others. I will post my diet here and if you just want to disregard the PM and reply here, that's obviously OK. Thanks again in advance.

Here is the revised diet I made.

Meal 1:
1 cup of oatmeal: 300cal, 10g protein, 52g carbs, 6g fats
6 egg whites and 2 whole egg: 230cal, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 15g fats
1 medium banana: 105cal, 1g protein, 27g carbs, 0g fats
TOTAL: 635 calories, 41g protein, 79g carbs, 21g fats

Meal 2:
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fat
1 tbsp PB: 110cal, 4g protein, 3g carbs, 8g fats
1/4 cup Bear Naked Granola: 120cal, 4g protein, 23g carbs, 2g fats
TOTAL: 350 calories, 30g protein, 30g carbs, 11g fats

Meal 3:
6-8 oz chicken: 220cal, 40g protein, 0g carbs, 3g fats
1.5 cup brown rice (cooked): 345cal, 7g protein, 66g carbs, 6g fats
bowl of salad: 70cal, 5g protein, 12g fats, 0g fats
1 tbs italian dressing: 45cal, 0g protein, 3g carbs, 4g fats
TOTAL: 680 calories, 52g protein, 81g carbs, 13g fats

Meal 4:
6 oz tuna (pepper/green onions): 180cal, 39g protein, 0g carbs, 3g fats
1 tbs olive oil: 120cal, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 14g fats
TOTAL: 300 calories, 39g protein, 0g carbs, 17g fats

Meal 5 - Pre-workout:
1c nonfat greek yogurt: 110cal, 15g protein, 12g carbs, 0g fats
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fats
3/4 cup Ezekiel sprouted whole grain cereal: 300cal, 12g protein, 57g carbs, 5g fats
TOTAL: 530 calories, 49g protein, 73g carbs, 6g fats

Meal 6 - Post workout:
2 scoop whey protein: 240cal, 44g protein, 8g carbs, 2g fats
1.5 white everything bagel: 420cal, 17g protein, 76g carbs, 6g fats
TOTAL 660 calories, 61g protein, 84g carbs, 8g fats

Meal 7 - PPWO (before bed):
2oz whole wheat pasta: 210cal, 7g protein, 41g carbs, 1g fat
4oz lean beef: 140cal, 25g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fats
.5 cup prego sauce: 70cal, 2g protein, 13g carbs, 1.5g fats
TOTAL: 420 calories, 34g protein, 54g carbs, 7g fats

GRAND TOTAL: 3575 calories, 306g protein, 401g carbs, 83g fats

Ok, so after reading the above replies, I am still too high on protein/fats/calories and too low on carbs? Hmmm...where should I add the carbs / take away protein/fats/calories?

gb, I made yet another addition to this posted diet versus the one I sent you via PM. The addition came in on meal #2 where I added the whole grain oats.

Thanks again gb, base, and all other involved in helping.

[Live for the PUMP]

Thanks, gb, and others. I will post my diet here and if you just want to disregard the PM and reply here, that's obviously OK. Thanks again in advance.

Here is the revised diet I made.

Meal 1:
1 cup of oatmeal: 300cal, 10g protein, 52g carbs, 6g fats
6 egg whites and 2 whole egg: 230cal, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 15g fats
1 medium banana: 105cal, 1g protein, 27g carbs, 0g fats
TOTAL: 635 calories, 41g protein, 79g carbs, 21g fats

Meal 2:
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fat
1 tbsp PB: 110cal, 4g protein, 3g carbs, 8g fats
1/4 cup Bear Naked Granola: 120cal, 4g protein, 23g carbs, 2g fats
TOTAL: 350 calories, 30g protein, 30g carbs, 11g fats

Meal 3:
6-8 oz chicken: 220cal, 40g protein, 0g carbs, 3g fats
1.5 cup brown rice (cooked): 345cal, 7g protein, 66g carbs, 6g fats
bowl of salad: 70cal, 5g protein, 12g fats, 0g fats
1 tbs italian dressing: 45cal, 0g protein, 3g carbs, 4g fats
TOTAL: 680 calories, 52g protein, 81g carbs, 13g fats

Meal 4:
6 oz tuna (pepper/green onions): 180cal, 39g protein, 0g carbs, 3g fats
1 tbs olive oil: 120cal, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 14g fats
TOTAL: 300 calories, 39g protein, 0g carbs, 17g fats

Meal 5 - Pre-workout:
1c nonfat greek yogurt: 110cal, 15g protein, 12g carbs, 0g fats
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fats
3/4 cup Ezekiel sprouted whole grain cereal: 300cal, 12g protein, 57g carbs, 5g fats
TOTAL: 530 calories, 49g protein, 73g carbs, 6g fats

Meal 6 - Post workout:
2 scoop whey protein: 240cal, 44g protein, 8g carbs, 2g fats
1.5 white everything bagel: 420cal, 17g protein, 76g carbs, 6g fats
TOTAL 660 calories, 61g protein, 84g carbs, 8g fats

Meal 7 - PPWO (before bed):
2oz whole wheat pasta: 210cal, 7g protein, 41g carbs, 1g fat
4oz lean beef: 140cal, 25g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fats
.5 cup prego sauce: 70cal, 2g protein, 13g carbs, 1.5g fats
TOTAL: 420 calories, 34g protein, 54g carbs, 7g fats

GRAND TOTAL: 3575 calories, 306g protein, 401g carbs, 83g fats

Ok, so after reading the above replies, I am still too high on protein/fats/calories and too low on carbs? Hmmm...where should I add the carbs / take away protein/fats/calories?

gb, I made yet another addition to this posted diet versus the one I sent you via PM. The addition came in on meal #2 where I added the whole grain oats.

Thanks again gb, base, and all other involved in helping.

Replace your simple carbs with complex carbs in your pre-workout meal. This will give you better sustained energy. The difference is big.

[baseline_9]

Drop meal 4 and then add some extra carbs over the day....

[Trying-Hard]

Replace your simple carbs with complex carbs in your pre-workout meal. This will give you better sustained energy. The difference is big.

My pre-workout is complex carbs. What am I missing here? Are you talking about the 12g of carbs coming from the yogurt and the 4g coming from the protein?

Drop meal 4 and then add some extra carbs over the day....

basaeline, that would put my protein at 267g and calories at 3,275. Given that I am bulking now and don't mind any minimal fat (and keeping in mind I have a hard time putting weight on), would you still recommend me getting rid of this meal?

And you mentioned adding extra carbs throughout the day...would you be kind enough to tell me where you would add it, and what you recommend to add?

[baseline_9]

Well u can do what u want but I would aim to hit around about that macro breakdown I gave you....

Protein is an expensive type of food and you don't need a load when calories are this high... It's just a waste TBH....

If your a hard gainer get the carbs up around the 450 mark and see how u go

[Trying-Hard]

Well u can do what u want but I would aim to hit around about that macro breakdown I gave you....

Protein is an expensive type of food and you don't need a load when calories are this high... It's just a waste TBH....

If your a hard gainer get the carbs up around the 450 mark and see how u go

Ok man, I have my diet all typed out in an xcell sheet with calculated cells so when I get home I will play around with it and see if I can get closer to your breakdown.

One thing that immediately comes to mind is dropping the PB in meal #2 and adding another 1/4 cup of whole grain oats. How do you feel about that?

[gbrice75]

Diet looks decent. I'd follow Base's advice and try to get those macros closer to what he laid out. You can easily drop the PB in meal 2 and bump carbs there.

Also, just a small critique but I always prefer protein blends over straight whey. Something you might want to consider. Love the beef in PPWO, good choice.

[Trying-Hard]

Diet looks decent. I'd follow Base's advice and try to get those macros closer to what he laid out. You can easily drop the PB in meal 2 and bump carbs there.

Also, just a small critique but I always prefer protein blends over straight whey. Something you might want to consider. Love the beef in PPWO, good choice.

Thanks. I will most certainly plug and play tonight when I get home with my diet and try to get as close to base's macro breakdown as I can. Although I am happy to hear the diet is looking "decent" If you see something that would take the diet from "decent" to "good", don't hesitate to tell me your opinion on what to add/delete...=)

I really appreciate all the help, fellas.

[gbrice75]

Although I am happy to hear the diet is looking "decent" If you see something that would take the diet from "decent" to "good", don't hesitate to tell me your opinion on what to add/delete...=)

It really would just be nitpicking on my part, but as I mentioned - i'd swap the whey for a blend (ON Pro Complex is my fav), and would probably replace meal 2 with a better quality meal TBH. One thing I'd definitely do is add veggies - you have hardly any. Greens, greens, greens!

[Trying-Hard]

I'll get some ON Pro complex, no problem.
As far as meal 2, I will drop the PB and add another 1/4 cup of whole grain oats. I'll have to research what TBH means, lol.
As far as veggies, I agree. That's one thing even I know for a fact that I am missing. I'll see if I can add some and figure out a good spot to add them.

I am gonna play around with my diet tonight after the gym and I'll post final results later on. I hope I can get one last critique from the vets and hope I can leave this thread with a "good" diet that I can rely on..=)

[gbrice75]

I'll get some ON Pro complex, no problem.
As far as meal 2, I will drop the PB and add another 1/4 cup of whole grain oats. I'll have to research what TBH means, lol.

lol... TBH = To Be Honest

As far as veggies, I agree. That's one thing even I know for a fact that I am missing. I'll see if I can add some and figure out a good spot to add them.

Admittedly, they're a pain in the ass. Pain to cook, pain to store, pain to eat, IMO. If you're having a hard time with them, get yourself a good 'green food' powder. When I was training with Nark and cried about veggies, he put me on Macro Greens by Macro Life Naturals. Real veggies are always best, but this actually contains a lot of good stuff that you wouldn't get otherwise... even with a veggie rich diet.

I am gonna play around with my diet tonight after the gym and I'll post final results later on. I hope I can get one last critique from the vets and hope I can leave this thread with a "good" diet that I can rely on..=)

You're pretty much there bro. Most important is to hit your macros and be consistent. The other stuff is just minor tweaks... TBH. lol

[MR-FQ320]

TBH = to be honest.

[Trying-Hard]

lol... TBH = To Be Honest


Admittedly, they're a pain in the ass. Pain to cook, pain to store, pain to eat, IMO. If you're having a hard time with them, get yourself a good 'green food' powder. When I was training with Nark and cried about veggies, he put me on Macro Greens by Macro Life Naturals. Real veggies are always best, but this actually contains a lot of good stuff that you wouldn't get otherwise... even with a veggie rich diet.

You're pretty much there bro. Most important is to hit your macros and be consistent. The other stuff is just minor tweaks... TBH. lol

Thanks man. I will look into the Macro Greens by Macro Life Naturals and I will get my macros down to where 'base' and yourself suggested. I will be bringing this thread back TTT in 4 weeks to give you an update on the weight gain.

TBH = to be honest.

Yup, got it. Thank you.

[Live for the PUMP]

[QUOTE=Trying-Hard;6157620]My pre-workout is complex carbs. What am I missing here? Are you talking about the 12g of carbs coming from the yogurt and the 4g coming from the protein?

I wouldn't consider your whole grain cereal a complex carb. If that is it's classification, there are better choices. Sweet potatoes and oats for example. If it works well for you, and you have good energy for your workout then by all means disregard. Just throwing it out there for you.

[Trying-Hard]

[QUOTE=Live for the PUMP;6157723]

My pre-workout is complex carbs. What am I missing here? Are you talking about the 12g of carbs coming from the yogurt and the 4g coming from the protein?

I wouldn't consider your whole grain cereal a complex carb. If that is it's classification, there are better choices. Sweet potatoes and oats for example. If it works well for you, and you have good energy for your workout then by all means disregard. Just throwing it out there for you.

Thanks for the tip.

[Trying-Hard]

Alright baseline, gb...here is what I came up with when switching around my diet. Please critique/advise so I can leave you guys alone and I can get my diet on..lol. Thank you for your time and efforts, and I will be sure to dedicate my next set of pics in honor of your nutritional assisatnce.

Meal 1:
1 cup of oatmeal: 300cal, 10g protein, 52g carbs, 6g fats
6 egg whites and 2 whole egg: 230cal, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 15g fats
1 medium banana: 105cal, 1g protein, 27g carbs, 0g fats
TOTAL: 635 calories, 41g protein, 79g carbs, 21g fats

Meal 2:
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fat
1 tbsp PB: 110cal, 4g protein, 3g carbs, 8g fats
1/2 cup 100% pure and natural Granola: 240cal, 8g protein, 46g carbs, 4g fats
TOTAL: 470 calories, 34g protein, 53g carbs, 13g fats

Meal 3:
6-8 oz chicken: 220cal, 40g protein, 0g carbs, 3g fats
2 cups Basmati rice (cooked): 440cal, 12g protein, 88g carbs, 6g fats
TOTAL: 660 calories, 52g protein, 88g carbs, 9g fats

Meal 4 - Pre-workout:
1c nonfat greek yogurt: 110cal, 15g protein, 12g carbs, 0g fats
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fats
3/4 cup Ezekiel sprouted whole grain cereal: 300cal, 12g protein, 57g carbs, 5g fats
.5 oz almonds: 100cal, 2g protein, 2g carbs, 10g fats
TOTAL: 630 calories, 51g protein, 75g carbs, 16g fats

Meal 5 - Post workout:
2 scoop whey protein: 240cal, 44g protein, 8g carbs, 2g fats
1.5 white everything bagel: 420cal, 17g protein, 76g carbs, 6g fats
TOTAL 660 calories, 61g protein, 84g carbs, 8g fats

Meal 6 - PPWO (before bed):
2oz whole wheat pasta: 210cal, 7g protein, 41g carbs, 1g fat
4oz lean beef: 140cal, 25g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fats
.5 cup prego sauce: 70cal, 2g protein, 13g carbs, 1.5g fats
TOTAL: 420 calories, 34g protein, 54g carbs, 7g fats

GRAND TOTAL: 3475 calories, 273g protein, 433g carbs, 74g fats

[Trying-Hard]

Oh, and I am aware that there are no veggies in this diet, which is a no no. I will find a place to put them later or I will purchase the green powder gb was talking about.

[Rwy]

Drop meal 4 and then add some extra carbs over the day....

Im just curious. If that is you in your avatar and you take in that many carbs? Shoulders are perfectly round no homo

[greenwell001]

Oh, and I am aware that there are no veggies in this diet, which is a no no. I will find a place to put them later or I will purchase the green powder gb was talking about.

I have been using greens powder for its alkalinity purposes and to replace some veggies as well. The best I have found is Barleans, all organic top notch stuff.

[spywizard]

ya know, I'm aware that everyone loves brown rice and sweet potato.. but i don't, every since i substituted those starches for green beans, broccoli, and lintels i have a more steady supply of energy with no crash..

[greenwell001]

ya know, I'm aware that everyone loves brown rice and sweet potato.. but i don't, every since i substituted those starches for green beans, broccoli, and lintels i have a more steady supply of energy with no crash..

This is something that one of my good freinds does as well, he will make a pwo greens shake with some almond milk that he says makes him feel amazing with outstanding recovery properties. I have to say it tastes like shit though. I will stick to the powdered greens, but I love me some broccoli.

[Trying-Hard]

I will most certainly buy powdered greens since I don't have any in my diet.

Now, just waiting on gb and/or baseline to give me the ok on the revised diet so I can get on with it and get big! lol.

Thanks all for your input.

[gbrice75]

Im just curious. If that is you in your avatar and you take in that many carbs? Shoulders are perfectly round no homo

Yea that's him, the cvnt!!! I hate him for his shoulders too... while I'm stuck with these flat mofo's lol

Alright baseline, gb...here is what I came up with when switching around my diet. Please critique/advise so I can leave you guys alone and I can get my diet on..lol. Thank you for your time and efforts, and I will be sure to dedicate my next set of pics in honor of your nutritional assisatnce.

Meal 1:
1 cup of oatmeal: 300cal, 10g protein, 52g carbs, 6g fats
6 egg whites and 2 whole egg: 230cal, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 15g fats
1 medium banana: 105cal, 1g protein, 27g carbs, 0g fats
TOTAL: 635 calories, 41g protein, 79g carbs, 21g fats

I don't wanna piss on your parade because I know you're getting close to working this all out, but for me personally, the fat macro is just too high here. However, where are you getting 15g of fat from in 2 whole eggs? 10g max. Even still, I might drop it to 1 whole egg, but that's me. 16g of fat looks better than 21g. Check your macros.

Meal 2:
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fat
1 tbsp PB: 110cal, 4g protein, 3g carbs, 8g fats
1/2 cup 100% pure and natural Granola: 240cal, 8g protein, 46g carbs, 4g fats
TOTAL: 470 calories, 34g protein, 53g carbs, 13g fats

Meh. I'd still try and get a whole food protein source in here.

Meal 3:
6-8 oz chicken: 220cal, 40g protein, 0g carbs, 3g fats
2 cups Basmati rice (cooked): 440cal, 12g protein, 88g carbs, 6g fats
TOTAL: 660 calories, 52g protein, 88g carbs, 9g fats

Meal 4 - Pre-workout:
1c nonfat greek yogurt: 110cal, 15g protein, 12g carbs, 0g fats
1 scoop whey protein: 120cal, 22g protein, 4g carbs, 1g fats
3/4 cup Ezekiel sprouted whole grain cereal: 300cal, 12g protein, 57g carbs, 5g fats
.5 oz almonds: 100cal, 2g protein, 2g carbs, 10g fats
TOTAL: 630 calories, 51g protein, 75g carbs, 16g fats

You don't need the almonds here. I'd ditch em personally. I realize that'll bring your calories down a bit. I wouldn't worry much at this point. can always add em' back in if you're not gaining.

Meal 5 - Post workout:
2 scoop whey protein: 240cal, 44g protein, 8g carbs, 2g fats
1.5 white everything bagel: 420cal, 17g protein, 76g carbs, 6g fats
TOTAL 660 calories, 61g protein, 84g carbs, 8g fats

Meal 6 - PPWO (before bed):
2oz whole wheat pasta: 210cal, 7g protein, 41g carbs, 1g fat
4oz lean beef: 140cal, 25g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fats
.5 cup prego sauce: 70cal, 2g protein, 13g carbs, 1.5g fats
TOTAL: 420 calories, 34g protein, 54g carbs, 7g fats

GRAND TOTAL: 3475 calories, 273g protein, 433g carbs, 74g fats

Looking decent overall. Not much different from the last from what I can see. You could make some cleaner choices (again, this is just nitpicking) - i.e. the bagel, the granola bar, etc. But at the end of the day if you're macros are in check and you're not a big fat gainer anyway, you should be fine. I'd run with it for 3-4 weeks and see how you do.