Eating intuitively VS counting calories for fat loss?

[Renholder]

Hello everyone,

Back in the day when I was dieting for real, counting calories was the only way to go, but in recent years, there are many diets that states that eating the right foods when you`re hungry will make you lose fat, preserve muscle and eventually get ripped.

The paleo diets suggests this way of eating, right? Can it really be that easy?

A Norwegian guru created a concept called Health & Fitness, which is a semi-paleo diet. Basically, you have a 1-10 hunger scale and eat when you`re around 7-8. Some days you will eat only a few meals, but other days you will eat a lot depending on what your body needs on any given day. You are supposed to get all your carbohydrates from fruits and vegetables and avoid rice and grains. Rice may be permitted right after training. One meal consists of 1 large fruit for males, 40 gram protein (whatever you feel like, but preferrably whole foods) and a fat source if the meat is not fat. For example nuts.

One of his clients had tremendous results with this diet. He was grossly overweight and lost most of his pounds by performing IF for a long period of time, but then went on to this intuitive approach and in the end got ripped. Unbelievable results.

Personally, I eat intuitively and find that I`m able to maintain weight while gaining strength, but I`m not sure if it`s possible for me to really lean up eating like this. I tried this diet and was very strict once, lost some initial weight, but then progress stagnated.

I have learned that I suffer from high cortisol, which may be the reason I have not lost fat on this approach, but I can`t say for sure.

Either way, I`m looking for a good diet that will let me shed at least 10-15 pounds of fat. Current shape is not horrible, I can barely spot my abs in good light, but I obviously have a way to go before I`m satisfied. Not looking to get ripped, but I want to get into beach shape and maintain it.

Any opinions or suggestions for a good diet?

Thanks in advance,

Renholder

[Times Roman]

i don't know mate.

if my body craves sweet, do i eat a candy bar?

if i crave a beer, do i drink a six pack?

charting out your nutrition plan is probably the best way to go.

"Failing to plan....
.......is a plan for failure"

[Renholder]

Obviously, you are only able to eat pre-determined foods when you are hungry. No beer or candy, mate! I actually never crave sweets or even beer when eating like this.

[Times Roman]

the atkins diet was quite similar in that you controlled the food types you ate, and didn't bother with counting calories, and just ate til satiated. it works quite well. it could be this diet works along the same pathways. but if trying to bulk you would have to adjust the point at which you eat downwards, and if trying to cut, upwards.

I probably should not have wrote what i did in the first post, as now on reread, it is not an honest response to your post. Personally, most of the time, I simply control food types that i eat.

I try to avoid processed food, simple carbs
and embrace whole foods and complex "slo burn" carbs

another key is to only drink water.

Good thread!

[jimmyinkedup]

Id intuitively eat myself right into being a fat ass.

[gbrice75]

Id intuitively eat myself right into being a fat ass.

^^ this. My 'intuitive' eating would have me at around 4000 calories/day. I'd be fat in 3 months.

[MR-FQ320]

Personally speaking I think it would only work for if bulking. eating too much brown rice and chicken is not going to be too hard to shift if you are eating a low fat high protein high calorie diet, TBH it sound like what I have been doing for the last year, eating the right foods at the right time of day, just not measuring the quantities, on the other hand when cutting i have to measure every calorie and have the macro split spot on and doubly so if carb cycling like I am right now

[GirlyGymRat]

Hello everyone,

Back in the day when I was dieting for real, counting calories was the only way to go, but in recent years, there are many diets that states that eating the right foods when you`re hungry will make you lose fat, preserve muscle and eventually get ripped.

The paleo diets suggests this way of eating, right? Can it really be that easy?

A Norwegian guru created a concept called Health & Fitness, which is a semi-paleo diet. Basically, you have a 1-10 hunger scale and eat when you`re around 7-8. Some days you will eat only a few meals, but other days you will eat a lot depending on what your body needs on any given day. You are supposed to get all your carbohydrates from fruits and vegetables and avoid rice and grains. Rice may be permitted right after training. One meal consists of 1 large fruit for males, 40 gram protein (whatever you feel like, but preferrably whole foods) and a fat source if the meat is not fat. For example nuts.

One of his clients had tremendous results with this diet. He was grossly overweight and lost most of his pounds by performing IF for a long period of time, but then went on to this intuitive approach and in the end got ripped. Unbelievable results.

Personally, I eat intuitively and find that I`m able to maintain weight while gaining strength, but I`m not sure if it`s possible for me to really lean up eating like this. I tried this diet and was very strict once, lost some initial weight, but then progress stagnated.

I have learned that I suffer from high cortisol, which may be the reason I have not lost fat on this approach, but I can`t say for sure.

Either way, I`m looking for a good diet that will let me shed at least 10-15 pounds of fat. Current shape is not horrible, I can barely spot my abs in good light, but I obviously have a way to go before I`m satisfied. Not looking to get ripped, but I want to get into beach shape and maintain it.

Any opinions or suggestions for a good diet?

Thanks in advance,

Renholder

I had fatty pants when I ate intuitively I need a more structured approach to cut. Gbrice's guidance helped me lose 40 pounds and I did it the old fashioned way of deficit eating with 5 small meals with lean protein, complex carbs and healthy fats combined with cardio and weight training. but more cardio when i am cutting. My 2cents!

[baseline_9]

^^ this. My 'intuitive' eating would have me at around 4000 calories/day. I'd be even fatter in 3 months.

Fixed that for u m8.....

Only kidding...

But yeh, if u don't plan ahead then ur going to cheat... It's as simple as that

[Renholder]

Thanks for the input so far.

To clarify, the diet has restrictions as to what you can eat and while the methodology states that you can just estimate foods, I think most people who followed the approach weighed the food fairly accurately, at least the protein part of the meal. The flexibility lies in how many meals you eat per day. For example, if you wake up hungry, eat. If not, wait 3-5 hours and then eat. Some days you eat 7 meals. Another day you eat 3 meals. But the macros remain fairly consistent and accurate from each meal.

I attached a before and after picture of the guy I was talking about. Actually, that`s not his best last picture and a picture from prior to starting this intuitive approach is lacking. I think he was on IF for the first 7-8 months and then H&F for the last three months or so.

[Times Roman]

here's a flaw as i see it. suppose i wake up NOT hungry, but need to go to the gym. Am i to go on an empty stomach?

[Renholder]

here's a flaw as i see it. suppose i wake up NOT hungry, but need to go to the gym. Am i to go on an empty stomach?

Not 100% sure what the author of this methodology would do in that situation, but I know Martin Berkhan of Leangains (IF) condones fasted training on an empty stomach, but he recommends that you take a dose of BCAA first.

The general idea of this intuitive approach is that if you eat correctly, your body will be in supply of what it needs and your hunger will dictate when you need more nutrients. So, if you wake up not hungry, I`d say that was because you ate correctly the previous day and possibly had many meals. One other possibillity would be to just eat a small meal before going to the gym. I don`t think it matter in the grand scheme of things (months of dieting and 100s of meals).

[Renholder]

Seeing how most here recommends using a plan and counting calories, which is what I think I need myself for leaning up, can anyone recommend a dieting approach for me? A book or an online resource that can get me started?

The last time I did a serious diet where I counted calories for longer than a week, it was with intermittent fasting with Martin Berkhan of Leangains, and I ended up in worse physical shape than ever. BF% did go down some and I was able to retain muscle, but my physical condition and well-being reached an all-time low. It could very well be random, but I`ve had hormonal problems for probably at least 5 years now and I ended up feeling worse than ever after the IF approach. Either it was random, or it was the zero-fat diet that did it or I simply did not respond well to fasting (maybe starting the eating window earlier in the day than 3:00 would have helped).

[--->>405<<---]

what does intuitive eating get me? look at my avi!

[GirlyGymRat]

Thanks for the input so far.

To clarify, the diet has restrictions as to what you can eat and while the methodology states that you can just estimate foods, I think most people who followed the approach weighed the food fairly accurately, at least the protein part of the meal. The flexibility lies in how many meals you eat per day. For example, if you wake up hungry, eat. If not, wait 3-5 hours and then eat. Some days you eat 7 meals. Another day you eat 3 meals. But the macros remain fairly consistent and accurate from each meal.

I attached a before and after picture of the guy I was talking about. Actually, that`s not his best last picture and a picture from prior to starting this intuitive approach is lacking. I think he was on IF for the first 7-8 months and then H&F for the last three months or so.

Certainly the after pic is a healthier person...for me personally....he is too thin!

Lets just say i have a 50 lb rule. 50 is the respectable number of the minimium difference between me and a guy that I might find attractive.
I know it sounds vain and superficial, but i don't EVER want a man to ask me if he can borrow my jeans. EVER.

very interesting thread!

[--->>405<<---]

Certainly the after pic is a healthier person...for me personally....he is too thin!

Lets just say i have a 50 lb rule. 50 is the respectable number of the minimium difference between me and a guy that I might find attractive.
I know it sounds vain and superficial, but i don't EVER want a man to ask me if he can borrow my jeans. EVER.

very interesting thread!

LOL.. dont blame u there GGR!

[Times Roman]

and conversely, I want my women to be at least 75 lbs lighter than me

[Renholder]

Certainly the after pic is a healthier person...for me personally....he is too thin!

Lets just say i have a 50 lb rule. 50 is the respectable number of the minimium difference between me and a guy that I might find attractive.
I know it sounds vain and superficial, but i don't EVER want a man to ask me if he can borrow my jeans. EVER.

very interesting thread!

Not quite on topic, but I`ll keep that in mind if I decide to make a move.

[Renholder]

I`m now on the health & fitness diet until I find another approach. I`m gaining well in the gym now and am in the middle of a training cycle, so I think I want to complete that before I do something dramatic.

Any other suggestions for a good cutting diet is welcomed.

Remember, it is intuitive eating in the sense that you have a lot to choose from and you eat when you`re hungry, but there are still guidelines and meal compositions that you need to follow. So relax the pizza and beer jokes, ok?

If anyone is interested, I could run the original article through Bable Fish and put it up. I`m too lazy to translate the whole thing by myself.

[GirlyGymRat]

^^^ Seriously this is an interesting thread. If eating intuitively, wouldn't more people be less fat?

[GirlyGymRat]

only speaking for myself, proper nutrition is not widely understood. even by physicians who hand me a food pyramid and tell me to follow it.

trust me, i would be fat if i ate all those carbs. just saying.

[Times Roman]

My doc looks and my height and weight, then his head swivels to the BMI chart on the wall and says I'm obese and need to lose alot of weight. He's a kaiser doc.

Docs receive bonus' just like any other executive. I'm assuming one of his metrics to receive his bonus is the overall average BMI of his patients. If he can get everyone in the optimal range, then it's "cha ching" for him.

[Renholder]

Here`s the translated article from Google Translate. I`m sure the language is not pretty, but I think it`s understandable. I`ll be happy to translate if anyone is confused about anything.

http://translate.google.no/translate...pt-kosthold%2F

[Renholder]

^^^ Seriously this is an interesting thread. If eating intuitively, wouldn't more people be less fat?

If eating intuitively the correct foods, then yes.

But you Americans are too fond of eating intuitively at McDonalds!

[fatman225]

If eating intuitively the correct foods, then yes.

But you Americans are too fond of eating intuitively at McDonalds!

I eat McDonalds food, but when I do I fore SURE count the calories up.

[JohnnyVegas]

I cannot eat intuitively. I don't end up accomplishing my goals. I need the structure.

[Renholder]

Today:

10:00 AM: 50 grams gluten-free oatmeal, 150 gram milk, 40 grams cashewnuts, 50 g whey protein.

3:00 PM: 3 whole eggs, 4 whites, 50 grams of lean bacon, 1 banana and 1 small carrot.

5:30 PM: Cardio.

6:45 PM: 200 gram minced lean meat, 1 onion, 1 carrot, 1 banana.

9:30 PM: 40 grams cashewnuts, 1 apple, 50 g whey protein.

11:45 PM: 3 whole eggs, 4 whites, 50 grams of lean bacon, 150 grams of pineapple.

I`m going to bed soon and I`m not super hungry, but I think I will make myself one omelette and a bite of pineapple before going to bed, since I just got started with this and I did not eat very much today.

The diet is super easy to follow in my opinion, I`m just not sure if I will get lean on it, but I asked on a Norwegian forum yesterday and a lot of people still recommended this approach to lean up. I will try it for a few weeks and see.

EDIT: Added the final night meal.

[Super-Chump]

I eat intuitively during a bulk, but for a cut...? That's just setting yourself up for disaster

[lestat85]

Personally, I can't eat intuitively and get any real results, whether bulking or cutting. For me this would usually result in a lot of snacking and only 1 or 2 real meals.

[Renholder]

I eat intuitively during a bulk, but for a cut...? That's just setting yourself up for disaster

Why?

A lot of people seem to be doing it successfully.

Part of me is a disbeliever, but I`ve seen the results. Just not sure if it will work for me as I`m a skeptic.

Personally, I can't eat intuitively and get any real results, whether bulking or cutting. For me this would usually result in a lot of snacking and only 1 or 2 real meals.

Well, you`re not allowed to snack with the approach I mentioned in this thread. You eat when you`re hungry, but you eat quality meals with pre-determined macros and quantity.

[< <Samson> >]

I guess it depends on you as a person.


I am a huge fat man trapped in a fit man's body. If it was up to my intuition, I would weigh 300+ pounds and eat a pizza or 2 a day.


If you don't like eating like a hog and understand your daily nutritional requirements that is a different story.

[SEOINAGE]

I usually have a goal and then calorie layout, and to a degree count calories, but I used to do it more carefully when I was younger. See right now my diet is easy, try to get in my protein range, and then have minimal fat and carb intake. Occasional fast, occasional cheat, enough to keep it going.

As far as eating according to your appetite, well when I am lifting heavy weights I always have a higher appetite, I will always gain weight and get stronger, unless I'm too lazy to make food, but take that aspect out of it. If I stopped lifting weights I would lose a lot of weight because I wouldn't have the appetite anymore.

[lestat85]

I think intuitive eating can work well for some people. For a lot of people though, it could lead to either eating too much or not enough. Counting calories guarantees that you know exactly what you've eaten and doesn't really require that much extra work. IMO, it's better to count your calories and be sure if you're on track or not.

[SEOINAGE]

I think intuitive eating can work well for some people. For a lot of people though, it could lead to either eating too much or not enough. Counting calories guarantees that you know exactly what you've eaten and doesn't really require that much extra work. IMO, it's better to count your calories and be sure if you're on track or not.

Really it can get you closer but it isn't a guarantee.

[Renholder]

Today:

12:00 PM: 250 grams pineapple, 40 grams cashewnuts, 50 g whey protein.

3:00 PM: 250 grams pineapple, 40 grams cashewnuts, 50 g whey protein.

6:30 PM: 200 grams minced meat, 1 onion, 1 carrot, 1 banana.

8:30 PM: 25 grams whey protein, half banana. <-- Took a mini pre-workout meal, since I had been moving around some heavy stuff since the prior meal.

9:00 PM: Workout with weights.

10:30 PM: PWO: 1 large banana, 40 grams cashewnuts, 50 g whey protein.

00:00 AM: 3 whole eggs, 5 whites, 50 grams, 200 grams pineapple.


More shakes today than I normally prefer, but I was quite busy.

[Renholder]

I usually have a goal and then calorie layout, and to a degree count calories, but I used to do it more carefully when I was younger. See right now my diet is easy, try to get in my protein range, and then have minimal fat and carb intake. Occasional fast, occasional cheat, enough to keep it going.

As far as eating according to your appetite, well when I am lifting heavy weights I always have a higher appetite, I will always gain weight and get stronger, unless I'm too lazy to make food, but take that aspect out of it. If I stopped lifting weights I would lose a lot of weight because I wouldn't have the appetite anymore.

That`s the theory behind this approach. That hunger is regulated by your expenditure and needs, such that you will be less hungry on a day you lay on the couch all day, compared to a day where you are very active and maybe have some unplanned stuff on your plate.

For me though, I`m just not sure if my hunger can be trusted, as I can go long periods of time without getting really hungry.

He also stated that after training, you would probably be wise to override the hunger principle and eat within the hour regardless.

[lestat85]

Really it can get you closer but it isn't a guarantee.

True. I worded it badly, I suppose. All I meant was that you knew if you were at a deficit or surplus of calories.

Personally, even making proper food choices, I don't think I would be able to rely on eating based in my appetite.

[Renholder]

So, if eating intuitively does not work, is there any diets you guys would recommend me?

I`m down over 7 pounds since I started, but I suspect things may start getting tougher now. I also like the idea of being more in control, so I may want to go over to something structured after finishing this week.

Any suggestions?