Protein sources - Meat, Egg, Vegetable, Milk, Whey etc

[cherrydrpepper]

Wanted to discuss the different protein sources. Specifically want to discuss is protein protein?

I think the answer is no. I don't think a slab of steak and a scoop of some otc whey supp are the same thing. I would be open to any scientific evidence that points to different protein sources having a different reaction in the body. I also am open to testimonies of what different proteins have done for people. We can take milk for an example ("casein protein"). It is a slower digesting protein. The fact that it can break down in the body with even a small attribute that is different like this leads me to believe different proteins can react in different ways. I wonder also take egg whites for example. Does the body break it down differently in liquid form vs a cooked egg white pancake? Everyone I have ever met with a good body consumes a lot of solid proteins from the big three - red meat, chicken and fish. Just want to get some perspectives.

[gbrice75]

IMHO, for the most part, protein is protein. Let me correct that. Complete protein is protein as far as what we're concerned with here. Digestion rates etc. aside, at the end of the day, we're dealing with all the EAA's required to build muscle, whether that comes from a powder or a piece of chicken. If you want to get into the actual amino profile's of different sources, that's another story - but might be a topic for another thread. I have used a shake only diet for a number of weeks and saw no noticeable difference, positive or negative, vs. my standard diet containing all different sources.

Having said all that, I like to stick with variety for the sake of sanity first and foremost, as well as the benefit of varying absorption and digestion rates and varied amino profiles.

[< <Samson> >]

Tough to say, I guess.

I did the same before. I ran shakes about 3x a day and only ate real food 2x a day in low amounts. I still had good results.


But, I just like the idea of real food Vs. powder. Not to mention the powder does not settle too well at all.


Right now 25-30% of my daily protein is still from powder. I am trying my best to get it bellow 20%. But it is hard, when I have over 50 pounds of protein powder on hand and it's easy to slam down.

[gbrice75]

^^ I'm 50/50 powder/real food at worst, and 65/35 real food/powder at best. I should note though that even my shakes are blended with real food (cottage cheese, egg whites, greek yogurt, oats, PB, etc). My true 'powder only' meal is my PWO shake, although even that contains oats.

[krugerr]

I have used a shake only diet for a number of weeks and saw no noticeable difference, positive or negative, vs. my standard diet containing all different sources.

I think for cutting that a very high portion of whey protein could be a good thing? Mine particularly per 25g. Scoop is ~21g protein and 1g carbs.
So you could achieve a real nice split? I realise you could do this with real foods. But shakes are very convenient. Powder, water, blend, drink!

[< <Samson> >]

Oh yeah, the whey has a very nice looking split. But, so does fat stripped chicken.

I just don't know how well powder sticks within our body.


Same here, I do whey and egg whites like no other. Sometimes with Greek yogurt. This way you still get real food within a shake.

[Flagg]

GBrice really helped me out with my diet. I consume 6 meals, and two of those are from whey protein sources. My other meals protein content come from egg whites, low fat natural yoghurt, pork, turkey/chicken mainly. I will sometimes have tinned tuna but ugh, it's so bland. I used to have milk with my whey protein, but again thanks to GBrice I take all that with water now.

Shakes are very convenient, they are extremely quick to prepare and consume and often a hell of a lot cheaper than making a meal.

Most of us here I expect spend a lot of money on food, so I could see why whey protein is used a lot as it is also economical.

[< <Samson> >]

Also a good way to do powders is egg or the meat protein powders.

[gbrice75]

I think for cutting that a very high portion of whey protein could be a good thing? Mine particularly per 25g. Scoop is ~21g protein and 1g carbs.
So you could achieve a real nice split? I realise you could do this with real foods. But shakes are very convenient. Powder, water, blend, drink!

Wouldn't be my personal preference, but to each his own. For one, i'd be starving. I'm already hungry enough when cutting. I need real food to help keep me satiated. Second, whey is absorbed and assimilated very quickly, roughly 30 mins. It won't do much for the long term, and as such I don't consider it a proper 'meal'. If anything, when supplementing meals with protein powder, I use a blend (whey, casein, egg, etc). As stated earlier, aside from my PWO shake I always blend in a bunch of other foods to boot.

I just don't know how well powder sticks within our body.

Not sure what you mean by this. Please elaborate. If by 'sticks' you mean 'is digested and assimilated by' our bodies... it's the same as anything else. It'll be broken down into its amino counterparts, then utilized by the body for various things, including rebuilding tissue.

GBrice really helped me out with my diet. I consume 6 meals, and two of those are from whey protein sources. My other meals protein content come from egg whites, low fat natural yoghurt, pork, turkey/chicken mainly. I will sometimes have tinned tuna but ugh, it's so bland.

Check out the recipe section. I posted a recipe for tuna yesterday that you might find useful.

I used to have milk with my whey protein, but again thanks to GBrice I take all that with water now.

You're welcome!

[< <Samson> >]

Not sure what you mean by this. Please elaborate. If by 'sticks' you mean 'is digested and assimilated by' our bodies... it's the same as anything else. It'll be broken down into its amino counterparts, then utilized by the body for various things, including rebuilding tissue.

I guess the way I look at it as powder has to break down way faster than solid food.

[krugerr]

Good feedback GbRice and Samson. I still use 2-3 shake a day to get my macro split in the right direction, as well as steak/eggs/tuna/chicken to bump up the rest. I'm loving Rocket Salad at the moment, so everything is bulked up with that!

[gbrice75]

I guess the way I look at it as powder has to break down way faster than solid food.

No doubt about it (depending on which powder vs. which food source). However once either is broken down into it's respective amino counterparts, it's all the same from that point.

[cherrydrpepper]

No doubt about it (depending on which powder vs. which food source). However once either is broken down into it's respective amino counterparts, it's all the same from that point.

Not sure I agree with this not trying to start an argument just a debate but i'll give an extreme example. A nutritionist does a controlled study with three groups of people. The first group derives almost all their protein from milk sources. The second group derives almost all their protein from powdered whey. The third group from all meat sources. I just don't believe the first two groups would have the exact same strength and muscle mass gains and will further speculate they would be less on the muscle gain.

The truth is you can go on google and you're going to find people who support supps and people who are against it so its really to each person to decide. I did find this article against whey protein and here are his reasons below
http://robbwolf.com/2012/05/03/wheyi...powders-paleo/

Here are his points against whey to pick the most common supp

#1 Supps industry you really have no idea what they are putting in the product at the end of the day.. (see proprietary blend)
#2 Whey "(is) often a waste product of cheese making". - To me this sounds like its derived from dairy.
#3 "be it whey or egg white often utilizes extremely high heat (like higher than cooking). This ‘hot air’ denatures the protein to an extent that may increase its carcinogenic load". I dont know what he means here unless he is saying much like burnt red meat it can be an attribute in causing cancer which is not such a big deal as pretty much anything even breathing air in your house could cause cancer.
#4 Its a processed food essentially

Another whey hate article
http://www.holistickid.com/the-probl...otein-powders/
#5 Back to the processed food notation "dehydrated, powdered food with prolonged shelf-life is probably not really a food."
#6 "The saturated fat and fat soluble vitamins in dairy and meat helps the body to properly use the protein, vitamins, and minerals... Protein powders are generally unnecessary and often toxic. When too much protein is consumed without saturated fat, a myriad of health problems can occur. Eat Real Food."

I have a theory that about 90% of the people arguing for whey are consumers who enjoy the product and enjoy their results from their mixed diet and 10% are people with an interest in the supplements industry intent on selling their product.

The truth is though you could find pages and pages of the benefits of whey so really you have to make your mind up for yourself.

[gbrice75]

Not sure I agree with this not trying to start an argument just a debate but i'll give an extreme example.

Never taken that way bro. You're a respected member here and there's a reason you're red.

A nutritionist does a controlled study with three groups of people. The first group derives almost all their protein from milk sources. The second group derives almost all their protein from powdered whey. The third group from all meat sources. I just don't believe the first two groups would have the exact same strength and muscle mass gains and will further speculate they would be less on the muscle gain.

This may very well be the case, but I believe it boils down to the amino profiles of each source. Not all sources are created equal, as we well know. This, among other things, is why I opt for variety.

The truth is you can go on google and you're going to find people who support supps and people who are against it so its really to each person to decide. I did find this article against whey protein and here are his reasons below
http://robbwolf.com/2012/05/03/wheyi...powders-paleo/

Here are his points against whey to pick the most common supp

#1 Supps industry you really have no idea what they are putting in the product at the end of the day.. (see proprietary blend)

Agreed 100%. You get what you pay for, so to speak. There are well known quality brands that have been tested (independently) and are tried and true. There are also companies that literally allow you to build your own protein blend, so you know exactly what's in there. It's expensive, but worth it for the peace of mind you get.

#2 Whey "(is) often a waste product of cheese making". - To me this sounds like its derived from dairy.

lol. Whey is a byproduct of cheese making. I wouldn't call it waste. Yes, it's 1 of 2 proteins that make up dairy, the other being casein. I lol'd at this one because I just recently posted a study that was arguing against casein. Probably a huge manufacturer of whey!!

#3 "be it whey or egg white often utilizes extremely high heat (like higher than cooking). This ‘hot air’ denatures the protein to an extent that may increase its carcinogenic load". I dont know what he means here unless he is saying much like burnt red meat it can be an attribute in causing cancer which is not such a big deal as pretty much anything even breathing air in your house could cause cancer.

Not sure on this one, but anything is possible. Like you said, it's hard to find anything that doesn't cause cancer these days, supposedly.

#4 Its a processed food essentially

Absolutely.

Another whey hate article
http://www.holistickid.com/the-probl...otein-powders/
#5 Back to the processed food notation "dehydrated, powdered food with prolonged shelf-life is probably not really a food."

Agree with this. It's not natural, it is processed. I have never argued in favor of whey (for the record, I never use whey by itself anyway) in terms of it being a natural food. It clearly isn't.

#6 "The saturated fat and fat soluble vitamins in dairy and meat helps the body to properly use the protein, vitamins, and minerals... Protein powders are generally unnecessary and often toxic. When too much protein is consumed without saturated fat, a myriad of health problems can occur. Eat Real Food."

Absolutely. Again, my 'argument' has nothing to do with the overall quality of whey vs. real food, or health benefits due to naturally occuring vitamins, minerals, fats, etc. Real food will win this one 100% of the time. I'm strictly speaking in terms of a protein source and usable EAA's.

I have a theory that about 90% of the people arguing for whey are consumers who enjoy the product and enjoy their results from their mixed diet and 10% are people with an interest in the supplements industry intent on selling their product.

Wow, you're generous! I would have gone with 50/50!

The truth is though you could find pages and pages of the benefits of whey so really you have to make your mind up for yourself.

Yep. There is plenty of data from both sides of the fence. This goes for just about anything in this game though. At the end of the day, you have to do what works for you. As mentioned previously, I saw no appreciable differences, neither positive or negative, while using a powder only diet for a few weeks straight. Nor did I see or feel any difference when I reincorporated whole foods.

[gearbox]

Great debates/info.
I always try viewed whole foods vs protein powder as breast milk is to formula.
Breast milk has certain enzymes and antibodies that formulas just do not.
But formulas can add or take away things we think we need more or less of. Fats, pro, aminos, etc..

In other words whole foods are still better overall but powder still has its benefits of convenience.
I to like gb mix my shake with whole foods. Skim milk, peanut butter, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, cinnamon

[cherrydrpepper]

Thanks for the debate Gbrice75. I think I came across a chocolate cake recipe you posted after I posted my initial notation points and I remember stopping and thinking "well if you create something with it and throw some other protein sources in (nuts, cottage cheese etc) then it seems like a good idea to use whey" so I definitely think it has a place when used creatively. After all when you eat a brownie all it is is a powder that has been constituted with other ingredients and the same could be said about a lot of recipe based foods.