Need to reduce clean bulking diet for Sust cycle, help! :)

Hi guys, need some educated input here if possible. I am just about to start my 4th AS cycle of Organon Sust 250, 500mg per week for 12 weeks

My stats are:

Early 30's
5'11"
180lbs (before AS 140lbs)

What follows is the diet I followed for my third cycle on which I gained and kept well

My daily routine has now changed and I am physically not able to eat 8 meals a day. I can eat 6 and will be always be training about 9am

Am I looking to adapt the following diet accordingly but need some assistance with this. I can manage with less calories and I am on a budget if that helps too. I awake by 7am and to bed by midnight

CLEAN BULKING DIET

Meal 1: Pro/Carb 8am
8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 slices cereal bread
50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2: Pro/Fat 10am
Lean Ground Beef, cup swiss cheese, green veggies + 150g potatoes , rice or pasta
55g protein / 107g carbs / 20g fat

Meal 3: pre-workout
2 Scoops Whey Protein / 80g of rice
40g protein / 71 carbs / 0g fat


1pm workout

Meal 4: Pro/Fat
2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies+ 100g potatoes, rice or pasta
60g protein / 71g carbs / 13g Fat

Meal 5: Pro/Carb
Chicken Breast, 1 cup Brown Rice
55g protein / 62 carbs / 3g Fat

Meal 6: PPWO
Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, 3/4 cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)
50g protein / 100g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7: Pro/Fat
Lean Protein of your choice, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat

Meal 8: Before Bed
3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil
60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

Totals as 420 grams protein, 469 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat per day and roughly 3800 calories.

Any input will be greatly appreciated

eye whats ur bf%??

if ur macros above are correct then that diet is 4300cals which IMO is gonna be too high and ur gonna gain a fair amt of body fat.

this isnt the same diet from the PM?

I wanted to see the diet from the PM as well...I think it would have worked with some tweeking!!!!!

I'm a guru now cause I lost 5lbs lol!

Will just grab the diet from the private message :) Sorry guys but I'm a bit lost as you can tell

3500 CLEAN BULKING DIET

Meal 1 – Breakfast

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1

Meal 2 – Mid Morning Meal Replacement Shake (MRS)

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 3 – Lunch

200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 611.5, P = 41.6, C = 59.6, F = 21.8

Meal 4 – Post Workout

2 scoops Impact Whey
80 Maltodextrin (refer to this article)
Cal = 540, P = 47.2, C = 78.6, F = 2.1

Meal 5 – Post Workout MRS

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 6 – Dinner

150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 445.5, P = 38.7, C = 57, F = 6.81
Total Calories = 3521
Total Protein = 265.2
Total Carbs = 395.4
Total Fat = 95.21

It is the tweaking I am lost with. I always train at 9am so its just the moving it around a bit I need help with. I want to start the diet on monday...

The previous diet I posted, yeah it did seem a bit much but was suggested to me in the past. This one seems alot more reasonable and I'm happy to go with it. 405 and Lunk1 I am all ears :)

Use the sticky at the top to figure your TDEE, that second diet isnt the one you sent me..it had whipped cream in it everywhere!!!!!

TDEE?, feel bit stupid but just trying to get this sorted. The following diet is the one I want to go with defo, just need to know how I change it around bearing in mind I am awake at 7am, train at 9am and go to bed at midnight

3500 CLEAN BULKING DIET

Meal 1 – Breakfast

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1

Meal 2 – Mid Morning Meal Replacement Shake (MRS)

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 3 – Lunch

200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 611.5, P = 41.6, C = 59.6, F = 21.8

Meal 4 – Post Workout

2 scoops Impact Whey
80 Maltodextrin (refer to this article)
Cal = 540, P = 47.2, C = 78.6, F = 2.1

Meal 5 – Post Workout MRS

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 6 – Dinner

150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 445.5, P = 38.7, C = 57, F = 6.81
Total Calories = 3521
Total Protein = 265.2
Total Carbs = 395.4
Total Fat = 95.21

whats ur bf%??? u need this IMO to project caloric needs..

405 it's 18%

18%BF is too high IMO to be considering a bulk?? of course who am i to tell u how much fat u should carry around + ur gonna be fatter when ur done bulking than u are now..

180 x .82(%BF) = 147.6 (LBS LBM)
147.6 x 15 = 2214cals

starting surplus: 2700cals

personally id be cutting to 10% before considering a bulk and/or a cycle..

I appreciate the concern 405 and know you are just trying to help. I will adjust the calorie intake although the percentage I gave was the figure from a little while back, I am carrying less fat now

Are you able to copy and paste the diet I have chosen to go with but with it around the the lines of me always training at 9am. That is more what I am stuck on. If you could would be a great great help. Any adjustments in the content would also be welcome

i probably could copy and paste it around but im not going to :) reason being u need to learn how to manipulate ur diet urself. id be doing u less of a favor by doing it for u. i told u what u need to do.

pre workout get 75-100g carbs + 50g protein

post workout get 50-100g carbs + 50g protein

then just manipulate the rest around. id personally keep carbs in meal 1-4 and drop em later in the day and in meals 5-6 if u need supplemental fat this is where id put it (prob meal 6).

405 is this a bit closer then? Come on I am trying :) Have took out a meal so I dont get too fat ;)

Meal 1 – Breakfast 8am

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1

Meal 2 – Post Workout 10am

2 scoops Impact Whey
80 Maltodextrin (refer to this article)
Cal = 540, P = 47.2, C = 78.6, F = 2.1

Meal 3 – Lunch 1pm

200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 611.5, P = 41.6, C = 59.6, F = 21.8

Meal 3 – Afternoon Meal Replacement Shake (MRS) 4pm

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 5 – Dinner 7pm

150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 445.5, P = 38.7, C = 57, F = 6.81
Total Calories = 2888
Total Protein = 265.2
Total Carbs = 395.4
Total Fat = 95.21

405 before you spot it I've only calculated the changed calories, not the rest :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eyeothetiger

405 is this a bit closer then? Come on I am trying :) Have took out a meal so I dont get too fat ;)

Meal 1 – Breakfast 8am

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1 1liter of milk is too much sugar IMO but to each his own. id have maybe 16oz and the rest carbs from oats personally. is the 40g protein all from the milk? why not have like eggs and beef or chikn and oats?

Meal 2 – Post Workout 10am

2 scoops Impact Whey
80 Maltodextrin (refer to this article) not a fan of high gi pwo..
Cal = 540, P = 47.2, C = 78.6, F = 2.1

Meal 3 – Lunch 1pm

200g Turkey Mince have some green veggies here too
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 611.5, P = 41.6, C = 59.6, F = 21.8

Meal 3 – Afternoon Meal Replacement Shake (MRS) 4pm

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter id drop this meal.. again with the milk??
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 5 – Dinner 7pm

150g Chicken Breast personally id move the this to meal 3 +green veggies and lose meal 3 all together. here id have more meat and/or cottage cheese and peanut butter (if u need it. 20% total cals from fat is all u need which at 2900 cals is 64g fat)
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 445.5, P = 38.7, C = 57, F = 6.81
Total Calories = 2888
Total Protein = 265.2
Total Carbs = 395.4
Total Fat = 95.21

---

with both those shakes + ur sugar PWO ur getting a lot of sugar which IMO doesnt make for the greatest lean bulk. id go for more complex sources... id make adjustments and change macros to proper amts.. then re-post :)

405 just to be sure before I do my homework, I am still looking at 5 meals in total yeah?. If I switch it round and do my best, at least finish it off for me as new to all of this and it's late. Going shopping tomorrow! :)

There are 2 meals numbered a meal 3 there, my mistake. You meant loose the afternoon replacement shake yeah?

yeh i would drop the shake and have a regular meal with meat and veggies instead

405 in nicest way poss I ended up proper confused last night :) Could you copy and paste how the 5 meals should be structured and I will do the adjustments terms figures. If you could would really appreciate it as wanna jump on this diet tomorrow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeothetiger

3500 CLEAN BULKING DIET

Meal 1 - Breakfast

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1

Meal 2 - Mid Morning Meal Replacement Shake (MRS)

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 3 - Lunch

200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 611.5, P = 41.6, C = 59.6, F = 21.8

Meal 4 - Post Workout

2 scoops Impact Whey
80 Maltodextrin (refer to this article)
Cal = 540, P = 47.2, C = 78.6, F = 2.1

Meal 5 - Post Workout MRS

50g Oats
500ml Semi-skimmed milk (cook with oats, cool then add whey + peanut butter)
1 scoop Impact Whey
1 tbsp Smooth peanut butter
Cal = 632, P = 49.6, C = 60, F=22.2

Meal 6 - Dinner

150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
Cal = 445.5, P = 38.7, C = 57, F = 6.81
Total Calories = 3521
Total Protein = 265.2
Total Carbs = 395.4
Total Fat = 95.21

It is the tweaking I am lost with. I always train at 9am so its just the moving it around a bit I need help with. I want to start the diet on monday...

---

Tip: depending on ur macro split...
...if its 40/40/20 the grams of protein should equal the grams of carbs

...if its 60/20/20 the grand of protein should be 3 times greater then carbs.

How it sits now, u will have plenty of potential energy, but u will get fat because.

I didn't even consume that many carbs when I was wrestling. That's 1600 calories from carbs. That's 900 calories less then my daily caloric intake...

Replace all ur milk with natural unsweetened almond milk.

ADD MORE PROTEIN

Just my .02....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeothetiger

405 is this a bit closer then? Come on I am trying :) Have took out a meal so I dont get too fat ;)

Meal 1 – Breakfast 8am
16oz Semi-skimmed milk
1/2 cup oats
2scoops whey


Meal 2 – Post Workout 10am
2 scoops Impact Whey
cup oats


Meal 3 – Lunch 1pm
200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
broccoli


Meal 4 –
8oz chikn breast
50g Oats. brn rice, or sweet potato
raw spinach

Meal 5 – Dinner 7pm
150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
broccoli


meal 5 -
250g lowfat cottage cheese
almonds (if needed)
(maybe if needed) 8oz lean ground beef (96%fat free)

---

goal macros (IMO) 147.6lbs LBM LBM x 15 = 2200cals (600cal surplus - maybe a tad high monitor progress, body fat specifically)
2800cals
280g pro
280g carbs
62g fat

i posted a diet similar to what id eat and changed a few things around. quantities ur gonna have to figure out to hit macros

ur workin the heck outta me tiger ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

goal macros (IMO) 147.6lbs LBM LBM x 15 = 2200cals (600cal surplus - maybe a tad high monitor progress, body fat specifically)
2800cals
280g pro
280g carbs
62g fat

i posted a diet similar to what id eat and changed a few things around. quantities ur gonna have to figure out to hit macros

ur workin the heck outta me tiger ;)

---

Ur a bigger man then I lol

Tron3219 I've no reservations in saying I'm a little lost here and could really do with some help. 405 has been helpful but I've been left still wondering what's what a bit. I have posted my proposed diet below, feel free to rip it to pieces :) I am simply looking for a simple clean bulking diet, around me training at 9am

The figures aren't all there no but in general how is this looking and what should I change. 405 I appreciate you were trying to get me to manipulate my diet to make it work for me, but there is only so much I can with my knowledge and that's why I'm here in the first place

Meal 1 – Breakfast 8am

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1

Meal 2 – Post Workout 10am

2 scoops Impact Whey
250ml Semi-skimmed milk

Meal 3 – Lunch 1pm

200g chicken
75g Pasta
Green Veggies

Meal 4 – 4pm

150g Turkey
Rice
Green Veggies

Meal 5 – Dinner 7pm

????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeothetiger

Tron3219 I've no reservations in saying I'm a little lost here and could really do with some help. 405 has been helpful but I've been left still wondering what's what a bit. I have posted my proposed diet below, feel free to rip it to pieces :) I am simply looking for a simple clean bulking diet, around me training at 9am

The figures aren't all there no but in general how is this looking and what should I change. 405 I appreciate you were trying to get me to manipulate my diet to make it work for me, but there is only so much I can with my knowledge and that's why I'm here in the first place

Meal 1 - Breakfast 8am

50g Oats
1 litre Semi-skimmed milk (mix some with oats + cook, the rest in the glass)
Cal = 660, P = 38.5, C = 80.2, F = 20.1

Meal 2 - Post Workout 10am

2 scoops Impact Whey
250ml Semi-skimmed milk

Meal 3 - Lunch 1pm

200g chicken
75g Pasta
Green Veggies

Meal 4 - 4pm

150g Turkey
Rice
Green Veggies

Meal 5 - Dinner 7pm

????

---

Drop all the skim milk...too much sugar. In place of it use all natural unsweetened almond milk. Just mix it with ur oats. It will drop ur calories via carbs so u can reallocate it to either lean protein or complex carbs. You need a lean source of protein for breakfast like egg whites.

U need complex carbs after ur workout. Briwn Rice, yams, etc. again drop the milk!

Also try to alternate your meals between carbs and fats:

Meal 1: pro/carbs
Workout
Meal 2:pro/carbs
Meal 3:pro/fat
Meal 4:pro/carbs
Meal 5:pro/fats

Ur protein needs to b LEAN meats, fats need to come from healthy fats (fish, alvocado etc)

Tron3219 as mentioned....

Meal 1 – Breakfast 8am
16oz Semi-skimmed milk
1/2 cup oats
2scoops whey


Meal 2 – Post Workout 10am
2 scoops Impact Whey
cup oats


Meal 3 – Lunch 1pm
200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
broccoli


Meal 4 –
8oz chikn breast
50g Oats. brn rice, or sweet potato
raw spinach

Meal 5 – Dinner 7pm
150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
broccoli


meal 5 -
250g lowfat cottage cheese
almonds (if needed)
(maybe if needed) 8oz lean ground beef (96%fat free)


Recipe for weight gain shake

600ml full fat milk.
100g oats.(blend separately before if you like)
60g whey.
2x tbls walnut/almond/olive oil/ peanut butter

Should I implement it in diet and if so where?

Not keen on the idea of almond milk, apart from that all noted

Just looking to get the structure bang on now really.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeothetiger

Tron3219 as mentioned....

Meal 1 - Breakfast 8am
16oz Semi-skimmed milk
1/2 cup oats
2scoops whey

Meal 2 - Post Workout 10am
2 scoops Impact Whey
cup oats

Meal 3 - Lunch 1pm
200g Turkey Mince
75g Brown Rice
broccoli

Meal 4 -
8oz chikn breast
50g Oats. brn rice, or sweet potato
raw spinach

Meal 5 - Dinner 7pm
150g Chicken Breast
75g Brown Rice
broccoli

meal 5 -
250g lowfat cottage cheese
almonds (if needed)
(maybe if needed) 8oz lean ground beef (96%fat free)

Recipe for weight gain shake

600ml full fat milk.
100g oats.(blend separately before if you like)
60g whey.
2x tbls walnut/almond/olive oil/ peanut butter

Should I implement it in diet and if so where?

Not keen on the idea of almond milk, apart from that all noted

Just looking to get the structure bang on now really.....

---

U want a lean bulk right?

@405 Meal 4 - oats with chicken?. Two meal 5's? - are you trying to confuse me :)

Tron yeah I do, what I've posted was with assistance from 405 to whom I'm grateful

But as per my last post:

@405 Meal 4 - oats with chicken?. Two meal 5's? - are you trying to confuse me

I only have so much time to sort this and I don't think I can be blamed for being a little confused. Tron if you could fine tune it I will be forever grateful :) Almond milk just seems foreign to me, so apart from that anything else I'm cool with

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eyeothetiger

Tron yeah I do, what I've posted was with assistance from 405 to whom I'm grateful

But as per my last post:

@405 Meal 4 - oats with chicken?. Two meal 5's? - are you trying to confuse me

I only have so much time to sort this and I don't think I can be blamed for being a little confused. Tron if you could fine tune it I will be forever grateful :) Almond milk just seems foreign to me, so apart from that anything else I'm cool with

---

Yes u can eat chicken an oats OR rice OR sweet potatoes. Implying just eat a carb....

The meal 5 was a typo. We're all entitled to errors. The second meal 5 was clearly meant to b meal 6..............

If u want a lean bulk, IMO needs to b like a cutting diet but with more cals and slightly adjusted macros....meaning ALL clean foods. I eat things I don't like sometimes cuz it's what's best. I like regular milk WAY more then almond molk but the truth is u can't taste it mixed with stuff

I am happy with the diet, I am looking to bulk more on a clean than a dirty side so I'm happy to go with it. Along those lines does the diet get your nod?. Some meal times and a few more weight would also be helpful. Ie when a cup is said, how much is this generally in weight?

Meal 1 and 2....

Meal 1 - is two stand alones of oats and a shake, or is it all to blended?
Meal 2 - all to be blended yeah?

I'm taking it your advice is leave out the weight gain shake altogether?

Dude did u read the 2 stickies how to bulk and dieting 101: cutting???

I typed an example diet and it looks like u want someone to hold ur hand. Its not that hard dude.

Obviously the 2nd meal 5 should been meal 6 but the meal stands.

Use ur head a little bit and do some work for Goodness sake!!