Eating less then TDEE, gaining weight?

[ma_fighter]

Hey all.
I've been trying to drop weight for a while now, and done pretty well. Down 77-80lbs'ish so far, however, recently I've hit a brick wall.

>>I'm off to work soon, so I dont have the time to post my entire story again, but alot of it is in the member pictures section.<<

The thing is this:
I've got shoulder impingement, which has messed with my training for a long long time, recently it's been feeling ALOT better, so I've ever so slowly started to work out again. Once I did this I added a protein-shake, split in 2 after two of my meals every day, that's all I've done nutrition-wise so far, and now I'm gaining weight again?
I know for a fact that I generally eat 500-700kcal below my TDEE, because I've been dropping 1-2lbs a week, so I really shouldnt be GAINING weight just by adding a shake, even if I hadnt started working out.. any ideas what's going on?

At first I just assumed that I'm carrying more glycogen because I'm taxing my muscles more, and because of that also carrying more water, but my weight is still on the rise, and has been for weeks
I shouldn't be building muscles while in a calorie-deficit either, so..

It's really bugging me, cause I do NOT want to start fatting up again =/

Training I do is as follows

*Rehab stuff for my shoulder excluded*

2 Warm up sets for each muscle
1-2 HIT sets depending on if I manage to exhaust my muscles fully on one set, at home with no spotter, or not. Aiming to manage about 8 strict, unassisted, reps. Then doing as many more forced as needed.

Shoulderpress, DB, slightly in front of my body due to shoulder.
Side lat. raise
*Dont know what this one is called, pulling 2 DB's up towards your chin, stopping when elbows are paralell to the shoulders.*
Front raise

Skullcrushers
Dips
Dumbbell extensions, NOT overhead cause I cant even bring my shoulder to that position without pain, but lying on a bench, going from across my chest.

Decline bench with DB's
Incline bench with DB's
Fly's on the floor, so I don't overextend

Pullovers, DB
Pullups, normal grip one set, rev grip one set
DB rows, elbows in, pulling towards stomach
DB rows, elbows out, almost a rev-fly
Bent knee "deadlift" with DB's

Isolated DB curls
Standing hammercurls
Isolated DB again, cause it's easy to help with the other hand

One legged "squats" carrying DB's x2
Stiff legged deadlifts

Other then that I do inner and outer rotators, as well as ab-exercises.

I currently split this into two or three days a week, and do kick-and-punch aerobic training twice a week to keep my GF active. There's also some weight training here, but in the very high rep range.


Any thoughts?
Cheers!

/Maf

[LiL P]

Have you taken into account that your TDEE will be changed now since you lose 77-80 lbs? just making sure..

[--->>405<<---]

Ma what r ur stats? Age weight height bf%?

[SlimmerMe]

Welcome to this forum! have you ever considered separating the shakes from your meals? to help spread out your nutrition? just a thought.

[gbrice75]

Have you taken into account that your TDEE will be changed now since you lose 77-80 lbs? just making sure..

^^ THIS.

Other than that though, the OP's post is why I still feel strongly that nutrient timing does in fact play a role in our progress. I have seen people eat under TDEE and gain fat. Overall weight may have gone down, but bodyfat went up. We aren't concerned with losing 'weight' like the general population, we're concerned with reducing bodyfat whilst maintaining (or dare I say adding... gasp) LBM. We have to be concerned with the composition of our 'weight' losses and gains.

[jpowell]

^^ THIS.

Other than that though, the OP's post is why I still feel strongly that nutrient timing does in fact play a role in our progress. I have seen people eat under TDEE and gain fat. Overall weight may have gone down, but bodyfat went up. We aren't concerned with losing 'weight' like the general population, we're concerned with reducing bodyfat whilst maintaining (or dare I say adding... gasp) LBM. We have to be concerned
with the composition of our 'weight' losses and gains.

You speAk a very good point. I have read studies/articles that support "it's not about timing but activity levels"
But I've given this a try- wen I first started my cut 9/24/12 my tdee was bout 2830, I then cut it by 500, giving me 2330. My foods were clean and I trained with intensity 4 days a week sumtimes 5. But wat I failed to do was stick to the traditional carbs at 3 meals, I split them for evry meal. And I nvr lost a pound of weight, following the 40/40/20 split.
I trained, analyzed, adjusted. Bumped up my numbers to a 60/20/20 split with carbs only at 3 meals and wooola sumthng. Clicked and started noticing not weight numbers but bodyfat decreasing.

[ma_fighter]

Yeah, I have taken that into consideration. Ive been constantly adjusting kcals all the way through my weightloss, and i was dropping at my regular pace up until the DAY i started doing heavy lifting again. I was up around 3lbs the next day, which is why I figured it was all just extra water.

Eating 5 times a day, Ill try taking my shake inbetween meals, but I doubt thats the culprit.
Bf.18ish % perhaps? Have a look in the pics section if ya wanna gauge my % and body composition yourself

My meals are generally around 400kcal, ending up at 1800-2200kcal a day, or thereabout. More often towards the low end. At work now but Ill check back in later.

/Maf

stats in pic thread btw

[--->>405<<---]

stats in pic thread btw

that does us no good here!

[ma_fighter]

that does us no good here!

Yeah, was at work on my cell, couldn't fiddle around for too long :P
6ft tall, was down to 176lbs, hovering around 182-183 lbs right now, started at 256lbs. 34 years old.

First one is me at 215-225 lbs


The next two is at 176 lbs




Me today, and my forearm getting home from work, just because I love the fact that my veins are popping again :P




Here's what I ate today, and this is a pretty typical day for me. Only difference is I only ate 4 times instead of my usual 5, skipping my evening snack. Kcals are on the low side of what's normal for me, ranging from this to about another 300-400 kcals at most.

Bread with pate' for breakfast. The bread is something I realize I will have to drop eventually, but at this point in time I doubt its what makes or breaks me.
One protein shake divided on two occations
500g Cottage cheese, along with 200g of flavored no-fat yoghurt. Also divided into two occations.
Chicken + rice + a bit of feta for flavour.
A glass of milk with the bread, and one with the chicken.
A couple of carrots at work.

Ending up:
Kcal: 1735 (and up to another 100kcal due to milk in coffee)
Protein: 161.9g (up to +7)
Carbs: 154g (up to +10)
Fat: 53.9g (up to +3) Almost half of it at breakfast. If I eat two slices of bread for breakfast I tend to stay full longer if I have a bit more fat in the morning.

That's like a.. well.. 39/36/25'ish split or so.

/Maf

[--->>405<<---]

Here's what I ate today, and this is a pretty typical day for me. Only difference is I only ate 4 times instead of my usual 5, skipping my evening snack. Kcals are on the low side of what's normal for me, ranging from this to about another 300-400 kcals at most.

Bread with pate' for breakfast. The bread is something I realize I will have to drop eventually, but at this point in time I doubt its what makes or breaks me. this is improper thinking and working against you IMO
One protein shake divided on two occations macros for shake? contents? whey, casein, blend??
500g Cottage cheese, along with 200g of flavored no-fat yoghurt. Also divided into two occations. cottage cheese is good (2%fat or less) im not a fan of yofurt. flavored prob equals sugar
Chicken + rice + a bit of feta for flavour. hmm cheese = fat. hopefully not a lot. would drop for now.
A glass of milk with the bread, and one with the chicken. milk and bread?? not good IMO. sugar
A couple of carrots at work. carrots i believe have a fair amount of sugar for a vegetable.

Ending up:
Kcal: 1735 (and up to another 100kcal due to milk in coffee)
Protein: 161.9g (up to +7)
Carbs: 154g (up to +10)
Fat: 53.9g (up to +3) Almost half of it at breakfast. If I eat two slices of bread for breakfast I tend to stay full longer if I have a bit more fat in the morning.

That's like a.. well.. 39/36/25'ish split or so.

/Maf

at 183lbs its hard to guesstimate ur bf% maybe 16(ish)

183 x .84 = 153.72

153.72 x 15 = 2305cals (rough maintenance)

i think a big part of ur problem is not how much ur eating but WHAT ur eating. how much cardio u doing?

id try something like:

workout days:
2300cals
275g pro
200g carbs (150g pre workout/50g post workout only)
44g fat

non-workout days:
200g pro
green veggies only carbs
44g fat

id hit cardio hard on non training days (60mins) and do no cardio on training days. try to alternate light intervals and moderate cardio. u need to gain some muscle and lose some fat. i would suggest u consider a routine that is upper body one day then lower body the next day. lift EOD. cardio by default will be EOD.

go for big lifts. such as:

upper day: bench, deadlift, shoulder press, rows, abs (no weight needed IMO); (3 heavy work sets (5-6 reps) for each, be sure to warm up good. i like to get on a piece of cardio equipment for 5 mins before i lift and have found it to be more effective than warming up with weights.

lower day: squat, leg extension, leg curl, calves, traps, abs (same applies here for work sets and rep range)

as regards to ur diet i am finding maintaining an anabolic environment for training days is ideal and get ur fat burning done on non training days. depending on ur progress u could also consider implementing a 6-8hr fast upon waking on non-training days.

u need to have a diet that includes more lean meat and complex carbs and good green veg like spinach (think chicken salad - not the kind with mayo but rather a salad with chikn in it )

post ur diet for review and be sure to include cals and macros.

[ma_fighter]

at 183lbs its hard to guesstimate ur bf% maybe 16(ish)

183 x .84 = 153.72

153.72 x 15 = 2305cals (rough maintenance) I always end up at around 2,8k when doing TDEE calcs, so I'm assuming that 2305 my BMR?

i think a big part of ur problem is not how much ur eating but WHAT ur eating. how much cardio u doing? Yeah, my diet would absolutely benefit from being cleaned up, thing is: I got my GF on board to loose some weight as well this time, and she needs it far far more then me. 5'6,9"@ 230lbs, her attitute towards food sucks big hairy..., if it doesent taste good, she just won't eat it. (working on that tho). AND she works at McD... So in an effort to keep her from eating fries and burgers I try to make the food we eat as healthy as possible while still tasting good, so she wont throw it in the garbage and grab a milkshake at work instead. I'll get rid of the bread in my own breakfast tho. As for cardio I do 2 days HIIT a week (kick-n-punch, working a sandbag and mitts) for about 1h15m each time. Aside from that I've got a crosstrainer at my disposal.

id try something like:

workout days:
2300cals
275g pro Last time I ate 300-400g of proteins a day my wee ended up frothing, probably from excreted proteins, and my doc told me to cut back on P, and drop the creatine, cause it was taxing my kidneys. I'll up P a bit at a time tho, and gauge the outcome
200g carbs (150g pre workout/50g post workout only) I work out almost first thing in the morning, 'cause I work evenings, so this will be hard to fully incorporate
44g fat

non-workout days:
200g pro
green veggies only carbs
44g fat

id hit cardio hard on non training days (60mins) and do no cardio on training days. try to alternate light intervals and moderate cardio. u need to gain some muscle and lose some fat. i would suggest u consider a routine that is upper body one day then lower body the next day. lift EOD. cardio by default will be EOD.

go for big lifts. such as:

upper day: bench, deadlift, shoulder press, rows, abs (no weight needed IMO); (3 heavy work sets (5-6 reps) for each, be sure to warm up good. i like to get on a piece of cardio equipment for 5 mins before i lift and have found it to be more effective than warming up with weights. Right shoulder is utterly buggered, so my delt and pec WO's are fairly gentle still.

lower day: squat, leg extension, leg curl, calves, traps, abs (same applies here for work sets and rep range)I'd love to be able to, but long story short: my Endo refused to give me treatment for my low T, cause I'm not 40 yrs+?? so Im on unapproved TRT (equal to 100mg/week, undecanoate ester tho so less frequent injections. And alot of ester weight), which will land me in jail if I get tested at a gym, and they do test the gyms around here completely at random several times a year. Ive had a few close calls before, so now its home workouts only, no spotter, 2nd floor of the house. I cant do too heavy deads, atleast not to failure, cause I'll have to gently lower the weights. Same with squats etc. I use DB's, got some fairly heavy ones which I can load up to around 150lbs on each. One legged squats, and stiff legged deads are the only leg exercises I've managed to think of so far :P

as regards to ur diet i am finding maintaining an anabolic environment for training days is ideal and get ur fat burning done on non training days. depending on ur progress u could also consider implementing a 6-8hr fast upon waking on non-training days. 100% completely fasted, or can I put a drop of milk in my morning coffee? :P not a problem otherwise tho, I'll give this a go!

u need to have a diet that includes more lean meat and complex carbs and good green veg like spinach (think chicken salad - not the kind with mayo but rather a salad with chikn in it ) Did stuff like this alot for a while, I have no idea why we just kinda.. stopped :P More often we'd cook a nice steak or similar tho, and make a nice salad, and that'd be it.

post ur diet for review and be sure to include cals and macros. I'll figure something out, probably this weekend when I get some free time, and get back to you with that.

As for the shake, it's whey: P:26g, C:1,8g F:1,8g, mixed with milk (P:3,5g C:4,9g F:1,5g/ DL). I'm a milk-o-maniac, and simply cant cut it completely, life would become utterly pointless without milk , but I can cut back more if needed. Used to drink 4,5 liters a day when I was young, now its more like 1l :P

Cottage cheese is 1,5% fat, and yes the flavored yoghurt contains alot of sugar. I added some frozen berries, and cut back to just a splash of yog this morning, and thats a flavor I absolutely can live with.

Feta with the chicken: Macro % for that meal ended up P/C/F:36/44/20, but I'd use less feta the next time, it was a cooking experiment, but the feta overpowered the other flavors.

Carrots at work, I initially had em for when I got munchies, starting this entire project. I'd go grab a carrot instead of having a cookie or whatnot from the vending machine. Takes forever to eat, keeps my mouth busy, and when doing lots of cottage cheese and shakes its nice to have something hard to chew on. Never really thought of it before, but carrots do taste kinda sweet. Had a look now and they are 45kcal, 7-8g of carbs/100g about 1/3 of which is fructose. Meh, stupid sugars!

As far as breakfast goes, how does an egg or two (mostly no yolk) and some oatmeal with milk sound? Or egg/beans. Breakfast have just simply GOT to be easy'ish, esp for my girl, who works really awkward hours.


I really REALLY appreciate you taking the time to help out here m8!
Having a place like this to go to when you're trying to accomplish something, or just toying with ideas, is immensely helpful! Instead of having to learn everything myself through time and energy consuming trial-and-mostly-error
I can get almost instant feedback by knowledgeable individuals, simply by posting my ideas or problems on a forum.

A huge thanks to everyone out there that has the good heart to spend a great deal of their time dealing with OTHER peoples problems.

I'll get back with a revised, more detailed, mealplan ASAP.

/Maf

[jpowell]

405, on his good shit like usual.

i realized the importance of getting a diet critiqued by the fellas for one main resin: input.

i can construct a diet in a matter of mins, but 405, as you have witnessed from my thread lol, it was quality foods. yea i was in a deficit and hitting macros, but my food sources were not clean.

that is the single most important factor to success. clean, cut, foods.

good luck broski.

[--->>405<<---]

ma we have a fair amount to address that i dont have time to do right now but ill get back with u later today (after lunch break).

[ma_fighter]

405
Yeah, I figured as much :P
No rush though m8, food wise we've alredy got about another weeks worth of stuff that I'd rather not throw in the bin
And as I said before, I really appreciate the effort you guys put in.

jpowell
Yeah, I guess I figured I was still chubby enough to keep the weightloss going without eating very clean, just because it "worked" so far. There's always that fat person inside you telling you that "oooh, but remember <insert random not-so-hard-thing-really-but-you-pretend-it-was, here> that you did before? you deserve having that cookie.. and that snack omNomNomNom" :P

/Maf

[jpowell]

405
Yeah, I figured as much :P
No rush though m8, food wise we've alredy got about another weeks worth of stuff that I'd rather not throw in the bin
And as I said before, I really appreciate the effort you guys put in.

jpowell
Yeah, I guess I figured I was still chubby enough to keep the weightloss going without eating very clean, just because it "worked" so far. There's always that fat person inside you telling you that "oooh, but remember <insert random not-so-hard-thing-really-but-you-pretend-it-was, here> that you did before? you deserve having that cookie.. and that snack omNomNomNom" :P

/Maf

mail that shit to me. ill eat it.

lol, we ourselves are our biggest enemy bro.

[SlimmerMe]

Try some plain greek yogurt and sweeten with sugar free sweetener and some raspberries or blueberries. It will end up tasting even better!

And remember slow wins the race and consistency is key.

Good luck to you!

[ma_fighter]

Try some plain greek yogurt and sweeten with sugar free sweetener and some raspberries or blueberries. It will end up tasting even better!

Thanks for the tip! I'll try this today

/Maf

[ma_fighter]

Tried the natural yoghurt, raspberries, cottage cheese thingie today, didnt have any sweetener tho, but it was still awesome! Just a bit sour.

Toying around with how and when I eat right now, will change *what* I eat as well once the food Ive got starts running out.
Breakfast [email protected] was three boiled eggs, one with the yolk the other two without, 14.00 I had a prot.shake with a tablespoon of flaxseed oil in it, 18.00 chicken with rice. More meat and less rice then usual. 21.30 500g cottage cheese with raspberries and a splash of natural yoghurt.

Macros and kcals today, I have no idea really. Bout the same as usual I suppose. Ill do a calculation when I get home.

Because of how I work I get to bed around 02.00am, and get up at 10.00, thats why I eat when I do.

[ma_fighter]

Gotta get to work, as usual when I post so I'll *try* to keep it brief :P
I get blisters around my mouth every now and then, when my immunesystem is low for some reason, having a cold or so. This happens perhaps 1-3 times a year, and takes around 10days to completely heal.
Now I've gotten these blisters 3 times in a row, within 1-2 days of the old ones healing over, so I'm calling the cut I've been on off for now. I'm pretty sure I need to start eating more and better.

I'll instead try to not gain any more fat (atleast minimal ammounts) while working on packing on some muscles. This is what I came up with to eat today, it still needs tweaking for sure, and the kcals came up a bit short. But I've not taken the occational glass of milk, or the milk I use in my coffee into consideration, so the macros are a tad off, and the cals a bit low.

Breakfast
5 boiled eggs, no yolk, 50g oatmeal, 2dl low fat milk

P 33,5g C 39g F 4,5g
40,6/47,3/12,1% split

"Lunch"
500g Cottage cheese, 200g nat yoghurt, 50g raspberries or there about

P 63g C 26g F 9,75g
56.9/23.5/19.8% split

Dinner
Chili with ground beef and beans, and some rice. 68% kidney beans, rest white.

P 64g C 56g F 13g
42,8/37,5/19,6% split

Inbetween meals:
Protein shake
P 46,5g C 16,8g F 3,3g
65,7/23,8/10,5% split

25g cashew nuts
P 3,75g C 6,5g F 11,5g


Total kcals: 1800 Plus whatever from milk, probably another 100-200.

This ok or horrible? Tried my best with the limited knowledge I've got :P
I hope the chili isn't TOO bad, cause I've got enough for another 9 meals, lol

off to work

/Maf out

Edit: Also I havent taken the veggies in the chili into the calculatuon, only the main ingredients. I simply didnt have time. Got some onion, garlic, peppers, chili and corn in there as well.. and peas. As well as a bit of olive oil, abt a tbspn or so, so macros are a bit off.

[ma_fighter]

Anyone? am I going in the right direction here, cause it'd suck to keep chugging along only to find out Im down the wrong track!