PWO Meal

[Ajc330]

cheers to everyone that posted, i learned a lot , ill just have to experiment a little and see what works/feels best

[gbrice75]

The only reason you were seeing greater results with missing your PWO meal or running IF was because you were in a longer period of increased GH levels.

Don't you think that's a bit of an absolute statement to make? You know this for fact, that this is the absolute only reason? For the record - I said nothing about seeing greater results, I said that I saw no negative impact.

My argument in this thread was to digest some sort of hydrolized or bcaa straight after your workout without any type of sugar to fully utilize the benefits of all anabolic harmones that get secreated post workout and then wait around 30 mins and you choose to eat a protein + carb meals or just a protein meal depending on goals. Gbrice no disrespect but any person that eats clean the whole time will see results if he stays consistent with his diet regardless of PWO nutrition but my point lies is which method will yield faster results ? I tried IF and I got great results from it in terms of reaching lower body fat but at the same time I lost around 5 pounds of muscle in comparison with my previous methods of dieting. Now I have a different approach to dieting and am getting great results.

If you reached a lower bodyfat but lost 5lbs of muscle, then your overall calories clearly weren't high enough. You can certainly use IF to cut (sounds like you did), but the approach can also be used to add mass... hence the name of the currently popular leangains.

If you feel you're seeing greater results by immediately consuming nutrients PWO, then by all means you should stick with that. Again, there's nothing wrong with facilitating protein synthesis right away. My issue is with the false notion that one MUST do this in order to grow. You can't argue with science. Protein synthesis is heightened PWO but this does NOT magically disappear after 30-45 minutes... it stays heightened for many hours and in fact continues to rise.... so again I want people to understand that you should not freak out because you can't eat immediately PWO. If you can, great. If you can't, so what? Eat later. It won't hurt.

[Ajc330]

Nothing in particular. If I had the time and money I would rarely use whey. As it is I use a British brand of isolate. You have bulk powder company mail order over there. Or Dymatize do a recommended isolate.

ok thanks

Cheers to everyone who posted, i have learned a lot and ill experiment a little to see what works best for me

[Ajc330]

Don't you think that's a bit of an absolute statement to make? You know this for fact, that this is the absolute only reason? For the record - I said nothing about seeing greater results, I said that I saw no negative impact.



If you reached a lower bodyfat but lost 5lbs of muscle, then your overall calories clearly weren't high enough. You can certainly use IF to cut (sounds like you did), but the approach can also be used to add mass... hence the name of the currently popular leangains.

If you feel you're seeing greater results by immediately consuming nutrients PWO, then by all means you should stick with that. Again, there's nothing wrong with facilitating protein synthesis right away. My issue is with the false notion that one MUST do this in order to grow. You can't argue with science. Protein synthesis is heightened PWO but this does NOT magically disappear after 30-45 minutes... it stays heightened for many hours and in fact continues to rise.... so again I want people to understand that you should not freak out because you can't eat immediately PWO. If you can, great. If you can't, so what? Eat later. It won't hurt.

good info, exactly what i needed to know -- thank you gbrice DDD

[cue_artist]

you reached a lower bodyfat but lost 5lbs of muscle, then your overall calories clearly weren't high enough. You can certainly use IF to cut (sounds like you did), but the approach can also be used to add mass... hence the name of the currently popular leangains.

If you feel you're seeing greater results by immediately consuming nutrients PWO, then by all means you should stick with that. Again, there's nothing wrong with facilitating protein synthesis right away. My issue is with the false notion that one MUST do this in order to grow. You can't argue with science. Protein synthesis is heightened PWO but this does NOT magically disappear after 30-45 minutes... it stays heightened for many hours and in fact continues to rise.... so again I want people to understand that you should not freak out because you can't eat immediately PWO. If you can, great. If you can't, so what? Eat later. It won't hurt.

GB the time I ran IF my calorie intake did not change. I was still eating the same foods and same exact calories as I did before running it. So im positive that my calories weren't to low. But being on 16 hour fast period proved to be catabolic in my case. Take infact that I ran IF for 12 weeks and haven't cheated once with it. In this thread I was trying to emphasize the importance of PWO nutrition without effecting GH Levels in the body i.e. by ingesting a fast absorbing protein only. Why would you not want to initiate protein synthesis at a time that GH levels are high ??

[cue_artist]

Don't you think that's a bit of an absolute statement to make? You know this for fact, that this is the absolute only reason? For the record - I said nothing about seeing greater results, I said that I saw no negative impact.

I wasnt trying to make any absolute statements down here. I was just stating my opinion. And I would be the first to agree with you that if you have proper nutrition throughout the day you wont die by missing your PWO nutrion. You are only making it slower on yourself to see results. Thats just my opinion and I mean no disrespect to anyone down here.

[Ajc330]

[QUOTE=cue_artist;6341748]GB the time I ran IF my calorie intake did not change. I was still eating the same foods and same exact calories as I did before running it. So im positive that my calories weren't to low. But being on 16 hour fast period proved to be catabolic in my case. Take infact that I ran IF for 12 weeks and haven't cheated once with it. In this thread I was trying to emphasize the importance of PWO nutrition without effecting GH Levels in the body i.e. by ingesting a fast absorbing protein only. Why would you not want to initiate protein synthesis at a time that GH levels are high ??[/QUOTE

my thoughts exactly

[Zodiac82]

Ah yes, but everything is more expensive here. ON's hydro whey 3.5lb is close on $100 here!

I have to go with a zero carb, zero fat isolate as my protein choice.

wow steM where are u that its cost that much if u dont mind me askin

[Back In Black]

wow steM where are u that its cost that much if u dont mind me askin

In the UK.

[Zodiac82]

In the UK.

man thats a far cry from the 60 here

[gbrice75]

GB the time I ran IF my calorie intake did not change. I was still eating the same foods and same exact calories as I did before running it. So im positive that my calories weren't to low. But being on 16 hour fast period proved to be catabolic in my case. Take infact that I ran IF for 12 weeks and haven't cheated once with it. In this thread I was trying to emphasize the importance of PWO nutrition without effecting GH Levels in the body i.e. by ingesting a fast absorbing protein only. Why would you not want to initiate protein synthesis at a time that GH levels are high ??

With that in mind, I wouldn't mind having a look at your complete IF protocol and schedule.

I wasnt trying to make any absolute statements down here. I was just stating my opinion. And I would be the first to agree with you that if you have proper nutrition throughout the day you wont die by missing your PWO nutrion. You are only making it slower on yourself to see results. Thats just my opinion and I mean no disrespect to anyone down here.

I didn't feel disrespected bro, I just don't want people to be misled to believe that they MUST consume food immediately PWO or they are losing some sort of 'magical opportunity'. Again, if consuming nutrients immediately PWO works best for you, then you should stick with that. For others who it seems to work best for, they should stick with it as well. For some, me included, it's made no difference one way or the other. Again, I am trying to alleviate the PANIC I see newbs go in to because they miss a meal PWO and think their bodybuilding 'career' is over. I say stop sweating the small stuff and look at the big picture - consistency is EVERYTHING in this game. All the rest is just minor tweaks that likely won't make a huge impact one way or the other. IMO.

Why would you not want to initiate protein synthesis at a time that GH levels are high ??

my thoughts exactly

I already do. I have a bedtime meal.

[cue_artist]

With that in mind, I wouldn't mind having a look at your complete IF protocol and schedule.



I didn't feel disrespected bro, I just don't want people to be misled to believe that they MUST consume food immediately PWO or they are losing some sort of 'magical opportunity'. Again, if consuming nutrients immediately PWO works best for you, then you should stick with that. For others who it seems to work best for, they should stick with it as well. For some, me included, it's made no difference one way or the other. Again, I am trying to alleviate the PANIC I see newbs go in to because they miss a meal PWO and think their bodybuilding 'career' is over. I say stop sweating the small stuff and look at the big picture - consistency is EVERYTHING in this game. All the rest is just minor tweaks that likely won't make a huge impact one way or the other. IMO.





I already do. I have a bedtime meal.

I agree on looking at the big picture when it comes to bodybuilding But IMO i truly feel like I wasted a lot of time since I started lifting 9 years ago and could of achieved what I have now in half the time.There are alot of secrets to this sport and this is one of the reasons most of us down here arent pro bodybuilders. With time I came to notice the importance of maximizing the effects of certain hormones in my body naturally with some food manipulation and timing i.e eat your bedtime meal at least 3 hours before sleeping. And as i stated before I try to advise according to methods that worked for me after experimentation but I am certain that if it worked for it can work for anyone because I have some really bad genetics. 9 years ago I was 368 lbs and could barely move without running out of breath.

[gbrice75]

I agree on looking at the big picture when it comes to bodybuilding But IMO i truly feel like I wasted a lot of time since I started lifting 9 years ago and could of achieved what I have now in half the time.

Possibly... but isn't it fair to assume that there could have been other factors? Surely your nutrition timing isn't the only variable you've played with over the course of 9 years...

There are alot of secrets to this sport and this is one of the reasons most of us down here arent pro bodybuilders. With time I came to notice the importance of maximizing the effects of certain hormones in my body naturally with some food manipulation and timing i.e eat your bedtime meal at least 3 hours before sleeping. And as i stated before I try to advise according to methods that worked for me after experimentation but I am certain that if it worked for it can work for anyone because I have some really bad genetics. 9 years ago I was 368 lbs and could barely move without running out of breath.

Re: the main topic - we could go back and forth all day. It doesn't sound like I'm going to convince you (not that i'm trying to) and until I see tangible evidence to the contrary of what I believe, I won't be convinced otherwise. Let's agree to disagree.

Re: the bold - now we're getting into a weird territory, because I have always been an advocate of nutrient timing (to an extent).... however some of the other staff (Jimmyinkedup immediately comes to mind) feel nutrient timing has no bearing whatsoever. It'd be interesting to have his input.

[cue_artist]

Gbrice you are such a great and knowledgeable guy that I hate to disagree with you sometimes I was hoping that 405 would chime in and give us his thoughts on the topic too !!

[gbrice75]

Gbrice you are such a great and knowledgeable guy that I hate to disagree with you sometimes I was hoping that 405 would chime in and give us his thoughts on the topic too !!

Disagreeing and/or debating is what makes the world go round'. If we all agreed, it'd be a pretty boring place.

[cue_artist]

Spot on bro . Nicely said

[Ajc330]

the more you guys debate the more i am learning, thank you to both of you, your insight and knowledge has taught me a lot, i think what it comes down to is there are different methods for different people, i will just have to experiment a little

[gbrice75]

the more you guys debate the more i am learning, thank you to both of you, your insight and knowledge has taught me a lot, i think what it comes down to is there are different methods for different people, i will just have to experiment a little

^^^ AMEN!!! You've said more in this sentence than Cue and I have said in our entire debate! THIS is what it's all about... finding what works best for YOU as an individual. Trial and error baby....!!!

[--->>405<<---]

its funny about this topic! i did not read the entire thread but will just give my opinion based on my experience.

i think the importance of nutrient timing varies depending on goals. personally i have found nutrient timing to play a big role when it comes to reducing body fat. specifically as it pertains to the carb macro.

currently i do NOT have carbs PWO and actually only have carbs pre workout. this has enabled me to get leaner than ive ever been able to get while still having food choices that most would not consider ideal!

ID ALSO LIKE TO NOTE it is my opinion pre workout is more important than PWO due primarily to the fact that the nutrients will be available immediately PWO when a proper pre workout meal is eaten. i say this specifically as it pertains to a fat loss diet where PWO carbs are not allowed.

when lean bulking or running maintenance i also believe nutrient timing can be key for maintaining a lean physique.

[Ajc330]

its funny about this topic! i did not read the entire thread but will just give my opinion based on my experience.

i think the importance of nutrient timing varies depending on goals. personally i have found nutrient timing to play a big role when it comes to reducing body fat. specifically as it pertains to the carb macro.

currently i do NOT have carbs PWO and actually only have carbs pre workout. this has enabled me to get leaner than ive ever been able to get while still having food choices that most would not consider ideal!

ID ALSO LIKE TO NOTE it is my opinion pre workout is more important than PWO due primarily to the fact that the nutrients will be available immediately PWO when a proper pre workout meal is eaten. i say this specifically as it pertains to a fat loss diet where PWO carbs are not allowed.

when lean bulking or running maintenance i also believe nutrient timing can be key for maintaining a lean physique.

awesome, thanks for your input, i think im gonna just wait til i get home from the gym and eat a real meal instead of doin shakes, now i wont stress about rushing home for PWO meal

[gbrice75]

awesome, thanks for your input, i think im gonna just wait til i get home from the gym and eat a real meal instead of doin shakes, now i wont stress about rushing home for PWO meal

Good idea. And in so doing, you'll have more clarity of mind to focus on the bigger picture.