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  1. #241
    CookiesNCream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex.mitev
    If you train hard on the reefed day, you shouln`t feel tha much guilty the next day. On the hand this could be detrimental to the purpose of refeed - replenish partially/fully your glycogen stores. This is not and has never been an exact science. So many variables and sooner or later it all comes down to knowing your own body - not anyone is able to get there which accounts for flourishing personal training industry.

    Getting to your question - since you said you`re prone to holding water, having your carbs built up gradually would mitigate that effect your body is likely to experience. What do you think would happen if you jumped from 50 to 200 - that`s 4-fold increase after all. Not only will you gain weight due to water retention, but you`ll most likely (not saying for sure) will keep that with you for the following 3 days by having your current carb intake - and not to forget you do not refeed now, which will only amplify the above-mentioned process.
    The main reason of bringing your calories/carbs up every x days is mainly to prevent metabolic slow down (hormone restoration occurs), diet adaptation, cortisol control, mental break, and muscle loss to a degree. Remember the more muscle mass you bear the more calories you`d burn at rest. If you include very low carb days following refeed ( i consider 50 grams to be very low) you`re more likely to :
    1. Burn more fat - remember that metabolism would be elevated due to refeed, and any physical activity on that low calorie / carb day will make use of more fatty acids. Lyle Mcdonald refers to more than one study supportive of this concept
    2. get rid of the little extra water you might have gotten hold of.
    3. Prime your body to better utilization of the 100 carb grams just around the corner.
    I can go on and on, but think that`s enough of rationale?

    I`d like to once again reiterate my standpoint - this is not an exact science and approaches should be different.

    For instance, I started dieting with only one refeed a week. I reached 15% bf but hit plateau then. What i actually did was having 3 low , 1 high carb days and it worked fine. I never had to drop below 180 gr of carbs on a daily basis. THe leaner i was becoming the more food i could get away with.
    On the contrary, a person that i work with did not get along with 3/1 plan. When i put him on 5/1 approach he started loosing body fat. To advance further, we tweaked to 6 low carb days, 1 moderate refeed, 1 zero carb day, 1 high refeed and all over.
    Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that to me. I completely understand that approach now. I did something similar to this but I did it incorrectly. My refeed days were not clean. They were dirty, very dirty lol. Ice Cream, yam fries, etc. I'll try this approach incorporating my current meals, just more carbs (more oatmeal in the morning!! Heck yes!)

    I still haven't had a chance to make up my new menu plan, but as soon as i do I will post for critiquing

    Thx again for all your help Alex, I appreciate it!

  2. #242
    alex.mitev is offline Associate Member
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    Huh a cheat day is another story - i use to revolve around similar plan and never made a breakthrough with my physics. But heads up - it`s alway hard to get to a place for the first time, but once you`re there be sure you`ll be to eat little cheat meals occasionally. Awaiting your plan.

  3. #243
    CookiesNCream's Avatar
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    Okee dokee artichokeeeee. Here is my carb cycling outline. Feedback welcome

    Day 1/2 LOW CARB *50g*

    Meal 1 - 47P/22C/12F

    2 Omega 3 Eggs
    1 cup egg whites
    1 cup broccoli
    cup rolled oats

    Meal 2 – 49P/8C/6F

    5 oz chicken
    1 omega 3 egg
    2 cups spinach
    1 cup cucumber
    Red wine vinegar for dressing

    Meal 3 – 49P/8C/6F

    5 oz chicken
    1 omega 3 egg
    2 cups spinach
    1 cup cucumber
    Red wine vinegar for dressing

    Meal 4 – 34P/12C/13F

    1 cup egg whites
    1 cup spinach
    1 cup broccoli
    5 tomato slices
    medium avocado

    TOTAL = 179P/50C/36F
    1257 Calories

    __________________________________________________ ______


    Day 3/4/5 – MODERATE CARB *100g*


    Meal 1 30P/22C/12F

    2 Omega 3 Eggs
    cup egg whites
    1/3 cup rolled oats

    Meal 2 – 29P/43C/4F

    4 oz tilapia
    cup cooked white rice
    1 cup broccoli
    1 cup cucumber

    Meal 3 – 45P/24C/1F

    5 oz cooked chicken
    cup cooked yam
    1 cup broccoli

    Meal 4 – 39P/11C/18F

    1 cup egg whites
    1 omega 3 egg
    1 cup broccoli
    5 tomato slices
    medium avocado

    TOTAL = 143P/100C/34F
    1283 Calories


    __________________________________________________ _____


    Day 6 – REFEED DAY *200g*


    Meal 1 – 35P/65C/15F

    2 omega 3 eggs
    cup egg whites
    2/3 cup rolled oats
    1 cup blueberries

    Meal 2 – 37P/64C/2F

    4 oz chicken
    cup cooked white rice
    1 cup cucumber
    1 medium grapefruit

    Meal 3 – 24P/68C/3F

    4 oz Tilapia
    1 cup cooked yams
    5 tomato slices
    1 cup cucumber
    1 medium gala apple

    Meal 4 – 32P/5C/1F

    4 oz chicken
    1 cup spinach
    1 cup cucumber
    Red wine vinegar as dressing

    TOTAL = 127P/201C/21F
    1508 Calories

  4. #244
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    bump

  5. #245
    alex.mitev is offline Associate Member
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    All right , so far you have been taking 1500 cal, from what i see above you basically cut 250 cal in 5 days out of 6. I have to admit that have no idea of cup measurements - 1 cup of rice would differ from a cup of lettuce. I always do grams. One rule - never ever drop your fat cals below 15 % of total cals mark, preferebly 20%. Leave your days 12345 where they are in terms of cals but add 100 cals in day 6. This would again create deficit, don`t worry. I`m not a huge proponent of protein cycling. I see i do so according to your carbs. If i were you, i would set protein at 1/1.25 per pound of GOAL weight (goal weight in a month or so, not your perfectly dreamed body). Keeping things simple makes sense to me. In the refeed day - are you too frightened to spread your carbs evenly in all 4 meal and certainly this will not make you fat. Just will ensure small surges of insulin and stable blood sugar throughtout the entire day. Don`t stress the broccoli unless you eat 2 kg a day

  6. #246
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    Good advice here from Alex Blondee... I agree with keeping fats around the 15% mark and not going above 20%.

    Re: refeeding - I'd do it on a complete rest day. The goal is to replenish glycogen stores. This won't be accomplished if you workout that same day, and subsequent workouts may be sub par as a result.

  7. #247
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    Greet feedback guys, thank you! I'm still a little unclear of what changes need to be made, and where? I thought the goal of carb cycling was to have increased carbs and lowered fat (on moderate & refeed days only). I reduced my calories because I thought that would be the next logical step - 1500 down to high 1200 isn't too much of a difference (for me anyways).

    So to clarify, I need to increase my protein intake, and lower my fat? Am I understanding that correctly?

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondee View Post
    Greet feedback guys, thank you! I'm still a little unclear of what changes need to be made, and where? I thought the goal of carb cycling was to have increased carbs and lowered fat (on moderate & refeed days only). I reduced my calories because I thought that would be the next logical step - 1500 down to high 1200 isn't too much of a difference (for me anyways).

    So to clarify, I need to increase my protein intake, and lower my fat? Am I understanding that correctly?
    There's no 'right' way, but personally the only macro that changes for me is carbs. My protein stays high, my fats staw low-moderate, and carbs change based on where I'm at in the carb cycle. When I'm on a low/no carb day, calories are lowered by default. On the refeed day, they're higher than TDEE. Moderate days are right around TDEE. Again, this is just what I do and it has worked very well for me in the past.

  9. #249
    alex.mitev is offline Associate Member
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    Hm no Look I`l make it easy and comprehensive.
    Fats - 15-20% of total calories
    example (1300 cals a day *15)/ 100 = 195 cal coming from fats . 195/9 cal per gram of fat = 21,6 ABsolute minimum. I would personaly go for 20% on 1300 cal day and 15% on hight carb/calorie day
    What would you like your weight to be in a month?

  10. #250
    alex.mitev is offline Associate Member
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    I will outline macros here:

    Low carb days 1/2

    Fats 20% from 1200 cal = 240 cals/9= 27 gr
    Protein - goal weight 130 pounds*1.25= 162.5 gr (650 cal)
    Carbs 50 gr *4 cal= 200
    Total calories= 1090, 100 remaining for broccoli and salads

    Moderate day
    Keep things the same except for carbs

    Total calories = 1290

    Refeed

    Goal weight 130 pounds * 1 gr = 130 gr *4 cal=520 cal
    200 gr carb *4 cal= 800 cal

    Fats are again 27 gr but this now accounts for only 15% of the total calorie count.

    Total calories = 1560.......

    Does this help?

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex.mitev
    I will outline macros here:

    Low carb days 1/2

    Fats 20% from 1200 cal = 240 cals/9= 27 gr
    Protein - goal weight 130 pounds*1.25= 162.5 gr (650 cal)
    Carbs 50 gr *4 cal= 200
    Total calories= 1090, 100 remaining for broccoli and salads

    Moderate day
    Keep things the same except for carbs

    Total calories = 1290

    Refeed

    Goal weight 130 pounds * 1 gr = 130 gr *4 cal=520 cal
    200 gr carb *4 cal= 800 cal

    Fats are again 27 gr but this now accounts for only 15% of the total calorie count.

    Total calories = 1560.......

    Does this help?
    Yes! This is a huge help! Thank you soooo much. I'll do this up over the weekend and will start this on Monday (will post modifications when they are made).

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondee

    Yes! This is a huge help! Thank you soooo much. I'll do this up over the weekend and will start this on Monday (will post modifications when they are made).
    Talk to me!!!!

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat

    Talk to me!!!!
    Hey girlfriend ... Nice avi
    I'm doing okay! Think I may have found a way to combat my water weight problem, or at least eliminate some fluid retention by the end of the day

    How you doing? How's your injury... Is physio helping at all?

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondee

    Hey girlfriend ... Nice avi
    I'm doing okay! Think I may have found a way to combat my water weight problem, or at least eliminate some fluid retention by the end of the day

    How you doing? How's your injury... Is physio helping at all?
    I like to know what you found!!!! Very interested!!

    Doing good here. First lower body workout in months. Felt good!!!!!!

    How's the new carb cycling been treating you????

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