*KJ* Cutting Progress

[-KJ-]

Fcking awesome bro! How has strength been? Energy levels, etc?
Energy levels arent too bad; some good days and some bad days. Strength is around the same.. some lifts have gone up but I still had relatively newb gains to make.



To be expected. Nothing works forever! UD2.0, should you decide to go with it, should take care of this.
Im thinking U2.0 is a little extreme for where Im at rite now. I think it would be best utilised when I come to another sticking point maybe in 4-5 weeks time ans see where Im at then


^^ fixed. Not hopefully. It will.

Cheers GB. .

[alex.mitev]

If I were you, i would do upper/lower strenght workout days 1/2, upper/ lower hypertrophy days 4/5

Strenght - the moves are well known bench presses, military, squats, etc. would bump the sets (to mantain time under tension) a little bit and not go over 5 reps.
Hypertrophy - would swap exercises a little, rep range 8-12, control the eccentric with tempo 301 or similar.

Mantaining strenght while in deficit is vital part of retaining muscle. If you however are enhanced now, shouldn`t be worried about that

[-KJ-]

If I were you, i would do upper/lower strenght workout days 1/2, upper/ lower hypertrophy days 4/5

Strenght - the moves are well known bench presses, military, squats, etc. would bump the sets (to mantain time under tension) a little bit and not go over 5 reps.
Hypertrophy - would swap exercises a little, rep range 8-12, control the eccentric with tempo 301 or similar.

Mantaining strenght while in deficit is vital part of retaining muscle. If you however are enhanced now, shouldn`t be worried about that

Im all natty and yes I have looked at power/hypertrophy routines before but it comes down to recovery really. Can i recover in time for the next upper / lower workout.

[alex.mitev]

Hard question are u asking
Recovery depends on many many factors, but if you do not go overboard with training, do not use advanced techniques that will fry your CNS, keep the volume moderate but intensity high, sleep well, get enough fats and protein in your diet. you will recover well.
Recovery is also function of the nervous system wich could be trained! Have you heard of Bulgarian lifters? They squat every day, AM and PM training sessions and yet perfectly recover. I have had the chance to talk to Bulgarian strenght coach who asserted - Overtraining does not exist, what exists is illusion derived from putting undertrained individuals to proper routine!

[-KJ-]

Interesting... Ill look at the routine again. I know Base has one set up in here somewhere. Cheers Alex

[-KJ-]

Below is my proposed workout to get through my plateau. Ill be coming off full body circuit style workouts.

Cardio:
15minutes before each session. (Rower on leg days)
25Min PWO (5 Min SS, 15min HIIT, 5 Min SS)...


Day 1: Chest and Biceps
Decline Bench 3 x 10-12
DB Bench 3 x 10-12
Assisted Dips 3 x 10-12

Cable Curls 3x 10-12
DB/EZ Preacher Curls 3 x 10-12

Day 2: Back
Pull Ups 3 x 10-12
Lat Pulldowns 3 x 10-12
Narrow Tbar Row 3 x 10-12
Wide Cable Rows 3 x 10-12
Hypers 3 x 12-15

Day 3: Off / Cardio

Day 4: Legs
Squat 3 x 10-12
Leg Press 3 x 10 -12
Superset: Leg Ext / Leg Curls 3 x 10-12
Calf Raise 3 x 15

Day 5: Shoulders and Triceps
DB Press 3 x 10-12
Cable Side Laterals 3 x 10-12
Kneeling Face Pulls 3 x 10-12
DB Upright Row 3 x 10-12
Shrugs 3 x 10-12
Skull Crushers 3 x 10-12
Rope / VBar Down 3 x 10-12

Rest Periods will be 1 Min max to keep intensity high and HR up.

[RaginCajun]

i like it!

has everything healed up?

glad to see ya back logging

[-KJ-]

Yeah Ive no complaints now and certainly no excuses...

Im looking forward to this and will log nutrition and workouts on a daily basis as soon as I figure out where I plan to begin gettin past this plateau

[--->>405<<---]

Im 167-168 lbs rite now. A good guestimate from a fitness competitor I know. Also tape measurements and so on give me the same rough BF% so I judge from there. Not most accurate but its what I have rite now. Will do calliper readings soon.

Rough Maintenance for 168lbs 20% bf: 2016cals
Current diet:
227g pro
141g carb
41g fat

Total: 1841cals

2016 - 1841 = 175cal deficit

IMO u should reduce caloric intake further to @1600cals or somehow create a bigger deficit

I also see u are lifting 5 days (going off memory right now)

Personally id reduce this to 3-4 days .. I agree with alex regarding training to a point. Id concentrate in big lifts and heavy movements. Hypertrophy/strength days i cant say for sure about these types rep counts specifically but i can attest to heavy weight, big lifts, 5rep range to maintain strength and preserve LBM.

[--->>405<<---]

^ now i can see ur recent post i see u lift 4 days.. This is ok but u need to focus on deficit and cardio on non lifting days IMO. Personally i think u could eat at 1850-2000cals on lifting days and reduce vals further on non training days. Limit training to 3 days per week and this will give u 4 days for greater deficit which could come from reducing and/or eliminating starchy carbs altogether on these days.

Ur lifting routine resembles that of a mass gaining routine and remember ur focus should be maintaining muscle and BURNIG FAT! U dont need to do all that lifting (isolation, small lifts) because ur not gonna grow.

[--->>405<<---]

My cutting training looksike this and i have done well with it:

Upper:
Bench
Shoulder press
Row/chins
Deads

Lower:
Squat
Leg extension
Leg curl
Standing Calf raise

Thats it. I do 3 heavy work sets and im done.. 5 rep range. If u can do more than 5 reps ur not heavy enuff.

EOD protocol works well with this. So some weeks u will lift 4 times and others u will lift 3.. U do not get any days off though u always are doing either lifting or cardio. This may not be quite what u need to do now but a good direction to understand where u can head as ur bf% continues to drop.

[-KJ-]

405, Thanks for the help!

So eating @ 1600 Cals per day:
200g Protein
45g Fat
100g Carbs

1) Can this be 100g from complex carbs sources without adding the carbs from broccoli, green beans, spinach, onion etc...

2) Upper / Lower split 2x per week with Cardio PWO and on off days. If I only do 3 days 1 week I know to adjust Cals.

3) On off days, I will add the PWO shake protein to another meal or two. The PPWO carbs can be dropped and have carbs in AM only or drop altogether keeping same protein and fat requirements.

Cheers Bro.

[-KJ-]

Also using what you said about lifting 405 a Power hypertrophy routine may fit well here.
2 upper and 2 lower days. 2 Power days focusing on strength gains and 2 hypertrophy days weak points and variety in training.

Cardio could stay the same also.

[-KJ-]

Thinking of what you said 405;

Lifting days: 200g Protein, 150g Carbs, 45g Fat – 1805cals
Off Days: 200g Protein, 50g Carbs (Salad and Veggies Only), 45g Fat – 1405
Weekly Caloric Intake - 11435
Cardio on off days and lifting days will create a greater deficit.

Workout: Power / Hypertrophy

Monday: Lower Power
Tuesday: Upper Power
Off: Cardio
Thursday: Lower Hyper
Friday: Upper Hyper

Power days reps are 5 Max. Hyper days are 6-10range.

[alex.mitev]

that looks good now. power days 3-5 reps, hyper. 8-12

Hey 405, from what i have read and as your picture indicates, I`d conclude you are born with greater number of Type 2 muscle twitch - you show high affinity of gaining and retaining muscle mass and have achieved respectable physics in very very short period of time. Your cutting routine does not include direct arm stimulation but yet you have well developed guns - probably measure 43-44 cm (i don`t do inches, way too inacurate). What i`m trying to point out is that you`re more on the genetically gifted shore.

[-KJ-]

that looks good now. power days 3-5 reps, hyper. 8-12

Hey 405, from what i have read and as your picture indicates, I`d conclude you are born with greater number of Type 2 muscle twitch - you show high affinity of gaining and retaining muscle mass and have achieved respectable physics in very very short period of time. Your cutting routine does not include direct arm stimulation but yet you have well developed guns - probably measure 43-44 cm (i don`t do inches, way too inacurate). What i`m trying to point out is that you`re more on the genetically gifted shore.

Thanks alex..
Ill run with that workout split and hopefully the diet gets the go ahead too

[alex.mitev]

On another note, I think, and I`m not saying you MUST increase cals or similar, that those calories are very low for healthy athlete , with no endocrinological problem records.
Given the cardio and the level of weith training activity , this would roughly account for 1000 calories basal metabolic rate - you judge the figures yourself. Instead of pointing out renowned industry field specialist and their scientifically backed up opinions on the matter, I`d menion Blondee - female that came to the board asking for diet help. The girl ate 1500 cal a day and dropped fat and water like crazy. Well, is it any good to match healthy male trying to improve body composition caloric intake with female`s one ? Layne Norton has bikini competitors eating 2500 calories! Why do we have to go to extremes?

[-KJ-]

On another note, I think, and I`m not saying you MUST increase cals or similar, that those calories are very low for healthy athlete , with no endocrinological problem records.
Given the cardio and the level of weith training activity , this would roughly account for 1000 calories basal metabolic rate - you judge the figures yourself. Instead of pointing out renowned industry field specialist and their scientifically backed up opinions on the matter, I`d menion Blondee - female that came to the board asking for diet help. The girl ate 1500 cal a day and dropped fat and water like crazy. Well, is it any good to match healthy male trying to improve body composition caloric intake with female`s one ? Layne Norton has bikini competitors eating 2500 calories! Why do we have to go to extremes?

Your recommending eating a higher number of calories on working days or in general??

[--->>405<<---]

405, Thanks for the help!

So eating @ 1600 Cals per day:
200g Protein
45g Fat
100g Carbs

1) Can this be 100g from complex carbs sources without adding the carbs from broccoli, green beans, spinach, onion etc... ordinarily i would say yes but u are working with a lower amount of cals than is typical. id let a little broccoli here and there (and i do mean a little ) slide but dont take advantage of this to try to stave off hunger but piling on veggies because they do contain calories and at 1600cals ur only around 400cal deficit so anything extra u take in is gonna take away from this.

2) Upper / Lower split 2x per week with Cardio PWO and on off days. If I only do 3 days 1 week I know to adjust Cals.

3) On off days, I will add the PWO shake protein to another meal or two. The PPWO carbs can be dropped and have carbs in AM only or drop altogether keeping same protein and fat requirements.

Cheers Bro.

so far, so good. i think this will work for a little while and once u get into the lower teens (15% or less) u will need to incorporate some other methods. u may even need to do it sooner than that we will just have to see. i would prefer not to throw cycling carbs and cals at u yet as u still have a good bit of fat on u, the only problem is when u eat the same thing everyday u dont get much relief/break from deficit.

one of the good things about cycling carbs is u get to eat a good bit on some of the days while still dropping fat but i dont want to implement it too early. lets just see how u do with 1600cals everyday and make decisions based on ur progress.

[--->>405<<---]

Thinking of what you said 405;

Lifting days: 200g Protein, 150g Carbs, 45g Fat – 1805cals
Off Days: 200g Protein, 50g Carbs (Salad and Veggies Only), 45g Fat – 1405
Weekly Caloric Intake - 11435
Cardio on off days and lifting days will create a greater deficit.

Workout: Power / Hypertrophy

Monday: Lower Power
Tuesday: Upper Power
Off: Cardio
Thursday: Lower Hyper
Friday: Upper Hyper

Power days reps are 5 Max. Hyper days are 6-10range.

these numbers look pretty good to start but i would actually prefer to see u increase ur training day cals a little more and reduce ur non-training day cals a little more. we can iron this out when we get to it but for now lets just run the std diet with the modified deficit and see how u fare for 2 weeks or so first. we will keep this on the back burner. if we can squeeze a little more fat off u on a std diet i think it d be a good idea to do so.. once u plateau again we will re-evaluate and consider the carb cycle..

fair enuff?

[--->>405<<---]

that looks good now. power days 3-5 reps, hyper. 8-12

Hey 405, from what i have read and as your picture indicates, I`d conclude you are born with greater number of Type 2 muscle twitch - you show high affinity of gaining and retaining muscle mass and have achieved respectable physics in very very short period of time. Your cutting routine does not include direct arm stimulation but yet you have well developed guns - probably measure 43-44 cm (i don`t do inches, way too inacurate). What i`m trying to point out is that you`re more on the genetically gifted shore.

thx alex i appreciate it man and yes i suppose the Lord has blessed me with decent genetics. of course i would like them to be better but im just being ungrateful i suppose!

u are a pretty observant fellow

[--->>405<<---]

On another note, I think, and I`m not saying you MUST increase cals or similar, that those calories are very low for healthy athlete , with no endocrinological problem records.
Given the cardio and the level of weith training activity , this would roughly account for 1000 calories basal metabolic rate - you judge the figures yourself. Instead of pointing out renowned industry field specialist and their scientifically backed up opinions on the matter, I`d menion Blondee - female that came to the board asking for diet help. The girl ate 1500 cal a day and dropped fat and water like crazy. Well, is it any good to match healthy male trying to improve body composition caloric intake with female`s one ? Layne Norton has bikini competitors eating 2500 calories! Why do we have to go to extremes?

well alex this is the second time ive seen this as of late.. there are occasions where people are eating too few calories. this guy weighs 168lbs and has 20%bf.. this gives him 134.4lbs LBM

the body is a complex organism but typically when someone is losing fat and then stops it has to do with net energy balance. u have opened the door suggesting an increase of calories may be a solution for breaking thru a fat loss plateau.

lets see ur dietary and workout plan.. ??

[-KJ-]

these numbers look pretty good to start but i would actually prefer to see u increase ur training day cals a little more and reduce ur non-training day cals a little more. we can iron this out when we get to it but for now lets just run the std diet with the modified deficit and see how u fare for 2 weeks or so first. we will keep this on the back burner. if we can squeeze a little more fat off u on a std diet i think it d be a good idea to do so.. once u plateau again we will re-evaluate and consider the carb cycle..

fair enuff?

Thats a plan 405:
I will eat like this for the next two-three weeks and see where im at.
1600 Cals per day:
200g Protein
45g Fat
100g Carbs

Power Hyper routine is what I will rum and cardio PWO and off days.

I will log daily or when I have a chance.

[alex.mitev]

well alex this is the second time ive seen this as of late.. there are occasions where people are eating too few calories. this guy weighs 168lbs and has 20%bf.. this gives him 134.4lbs LBM

the body is a complex organism but typically when someone is losing fat and then stops it has to do with net energy balance. u have opened the door suggesting an increase of calories may be a solution for breaking thru a fat loss plateau.

lets see ur dietary and workout plan.. ??

In this respect, let`s presume we have a female that`s put herself in starvation mode by eating too little calories and ended up at 1000 cals a day with 20% body fat while lifting weights 4 times a week and complementing with cardio 5 times a week. Do we impose her to larger caloric deficit by eating even less or exercise more?

To break the fat loss plateu, I would do diet break for as long as it`s necessary to restore healthy metabolic rate. That`d imply increasing calories gradually while lessen cardio work to prevent post diet rebound. Once a decent metabolic rate and positive adaptations are established, I would re-introduce small caloric deficit alongside little cardio and make sure that there`s plenty of room for further adjustments in order to reach the goal bf digits.
IMO having attained one`s goals at all costs is never sustainable long term.

[--->>405<<---]

Beginning Stats: (jan 28, 2013)
Weight – 177 lbs
BF – 24/25%
Fat mass – 44 lbs
Lean mass – 132.75 lbs

current stats: (mar 22, 2013)
weight: 168lbs
bf%: 20
LBM: 134.4 lbs

134.4 - 132.75 = 1.65lbs LBM increase while simultaneously losing @11lbs fat.. this is over an 8 week period.. pretty decent IMO and the results are not cause to suspect metabolic slowdown as LBM has increased while bf% has decreases all being done at a deficit of approx 200cals per day (1400 per week)..

KJ u have been on this cut for 8 weeks approx and had great results IMO thus far. u could run maintenance for 2 weeks and then implement the reduction in cals. i do not suspect metabolic slowdown but ur body naturally has made adjustments hormonally and in other ways over my head due to being in a deficit and it would not hurt ur progress to run maintenance for 2 weeks. it actually could prove to be beneficial..

[--->>405<<---]

Thats a plan 405:
I will eat like this for the next two-three weeks and see where im at.
1600 Cals per day:
200g Protein correct
45g Fat reduce to 35g
100g Carbs increase to 120g

Power Hyper routine is what I will rum and cardio PWO and off days.

I will log daily or when I have a chance.

this will put u at 50/30/20 instead of 50/25/25

[-KJ-]

this will put u at 50/30/20 instead of 50/25/25

I havnt adjusted cals as of yet, so I will reduce cals and run the standard diet and see how it goes. if no loss in 2 weeks or loss in the wrong way I will run maintenance.

Best get cooking for all of my food!

[--->>405<<---]

I havnt adjusted cals as of yet, so I will reduce cals and run the standard diet and see how it goes. if no loss in 2 weeks or loss in the wrong way I will run maintenance.

Best get cooking for all of my food!

sounds like a plan.. now get to work!

[-KJ-]

sounds like a plan.. now get to work!

Cheers bro.. Appreciate all the help from everyone!

[-KJ-]

So I was still organising diets today! Cals were high but will be lowering.

240 p 145c 45f

Training tonight was a little primer for power hypertrophy on Monday!

Squat 4 sets
Hammer row (not sure correct name) 4sets
Bench 4sets
DB Press 4 sets
BB Curl
Skull Crushers 2 sets each

[-KJ-]

Morning all!

So today is an off day.. Cals will be lowered a little again before dropping tomorrow!

Tomorrow is also a cardio day only! 30 minutes fasted cardio on stepper followed by some stretching...

[-KJ-]

Meal 1 Pro Carbs Fats Cals
1 Scoop Whey 24 6 3.5 108
Oats - 30g 3 18 2 107
27 24 5.5 215

Meal 2
150g Tuna 39 1 1 170
Onion - 50g 0 5 0 28
Peppers - 100g 1 5 0 20
Spinach leaves … … … …
1 Oz Cashews 5 9 12 156

Meal 3
150g Tuna 39 1 1 170
25g Basmati 2 19 0 89
Green beans 1 6 0 28

Meal 4 (Immediately PWO)
2 Scoops whey 36 9 5 162

Meal 5
4Oz Chicken breast 24 0 1.5 110
Sweet Potato - 100g 2 20 0 86
100g Broccoli 3 5 0 28

Meal 6
4Oz Chicken Breast 24 0 1.5 110
100g Broccoli 3 5 0 28


Totals 233 133 33 1615

[-KJ-]

^^^ So guys this is the diet I will be running from tomorrow. Plan was to hit 200G protein, 120g Carbs and 35g Fats.
This will do for now otherwise i wont be eating very much but cals are working out at 1625.

I will try to reduce the protein and carbs a little to get it down but for now i thinks its ok.

[--->>405<<---]

Meal 1 Pro Carbs Fats Cals
1 Scoop Whey 24 6 3.5 108
Oats - 30g 3 18 2 107
27 24 5.5 215

Meal 2
150g Tuna 39 1 1 170
Onion - 50g 0 5 0 28
Peppers - 100g 1 5 0 20
Spinach leaves … … … …
1 Oz Cashews 5 9 12 156

Meal 3
150g Tuna 39 1 1 170
25g Basmati 2 19 0 89
Green beans 1 6 0 28

Meal 4 (Immediately PWO)
2 Scoops whey 36 9 5 162

Meal 5
4Oz Chicken breast 24 0 1.5 110
Sweet Potato - 100g 2 20 0 86
100g Broccoli 3 5 0 28

Meal 6
4Oz Chicken Breast 24 0 1.5 110
100g Broccoli 3 5 0 28


Totals 233 133 33 1615

how can 1 scoop whey = 24g pro and 2 scoops = 36g pro??

233 + 133 = 366
366 x 4 = 1464cals

33 x 9 = 297cals

297 + 1464 = 1761cals ??

also why would u use whey protein shakes if ur struggling with hunger?? u know 24g protein = 4 oz meat right?? by drinking shakes pre w/o and pwo assuming ur using 3 scoops total for ur 2 shakes this would = approx 75g protein which is also the equivalent to 3/4 pound of meat.. a LOT more substantial than a crappy shake.

when cutting u always wanna go with the most substantial option IMO>..

[-KJ-]

how can 1 scoop whey = 24g pro and 2 scoops = 36g pro??

233 + 133 = 366
366 x 4 = 1464cals

33 x 9 = 297cals

297 + 1464 = 1761cals ??

also why would u use whey protein shakes if ur struggling with hunger?? u know 24g protein = 4 oz meat right?? by drinking shakes pre w/o and pwo assuming ur using 3 scoops total for ur 2 shakes this would = approx 75g protein which is also the equivalent to 3/4 pound of meat.. a LOT more substantial than a crappy shake.

when cutting u always wanna go with the most substantial option IMO>..

That's the macros I added up and I checked it! I always wonder how the cals don't equal the macros given on the packet or websites...

Sorry I never changed that to 1.5 scoops 405! Sometimes its easier for shakes and other times its cheaper too! But I understand where ur coming from!

Ill have another look at this tonight!

[--->>405<<---]

^^^ So guys this is the diet I will be running from tomorrow. Plan was to hit 200G protein, 120g Carbs and 35g Fats.
This will do for now otherwise i wont be eating very much but cals are working out at 1625.

I will try to reduce the protein and carbs a little to get it down but for now i thinks its ok.

bold make it sound like ur not exactly happy with the quantity of food u get to eat (or dont get to eat)..

That's the macros I added up and I checked it! I always wonder how the cals don't equal the macros given on the packet or websites...

Sorry I never changed that to 1.5 scoops 405! Sometimes its easier for shakes and other times its cheaper too! But I understand where ur coming from!

Ill have another look at this tonight!

this bold makes it sound like quantity of food is not too big of a deal??

which one is it?

also u did not hit ur macros.
200g pro
120g carb
35g fat

NOT

233g pro
133g carb
33g fat

u shouldve known the cals wouldnt be GTG.

[-KJ-]

bold make it sound like ur not exactly happy with the quantity of food u get to eat (or dont get to eat)..

this bold makes it sound like quantity of food is not too big of a deal??

which one is it?

also u did not hit ur macros.
200g pro
120g carb
35g fat

NOT

233g pro
133g carb
33g fat

u shouldve known the cals wouldnt be GTG.

I understand it all! I guess I have to suck it up but the shakes are handy to have there and to go but I may change the morning to eggs and oats and keep the shake PWO.

On non workout days ill drop shakes altogether or at least try! After all it is a supplement!

And regarding the macros not adding up to the cals.. For example, the broccoli I have per 100g is 2p 5c 0f 28 cals. To me this shud be 35.
There is a few like this when searching mydit was pal etc...

[-KJ-]

little bit of tweaking. and im at...

Meal 1 Pro Carbs Fats Cals
Egg Whites -3 12 0 0 51
Oats - 30g 3 18 2 107
15 18 2 158

Meal 2
150g Tuna 39 1 1 170
Onion - 50g 0 5 0 28
Peppers - 100g 1 5 0 24
Spinach leaves … … … …
1 Oz Cashews 7.5 13.5 18 246

Meal 3
150g Tuna 39 1 1 170
25g Basmati 2 19 0 89
Green beans 1 6 0 28

Meal 4 (Immediately PWO)
1.5 Scoops whey 36 9 5 162

Meal 5
8Oz Chicken breast 48 0 3 220
Sweet Potato - 100g 2 20 0 86
100g Broccoli 3 5 0 28


Totals 208.5 120.5 32 1604

[--->>405<<---]

I understand it all! I guess I have to suck it up but the shakes are handy to have there and to go but I may change the morning to eggs and oats and keep the shake PWO.

On non workout days ill drop shakes altogether or at least try! After all it is a supplement!

And regarding the macros not adding up to the cals.. For example, the broccoli I have per 100g is 2p 5c 0f 28 cals. To me this shud be 35.
There is a few like this when searching mydit was pal etc...

more important than the listed cals are the macros IMO.. but ur macros u did not hit.. hit ur macros and forget calories.. but hit ur macros.. 3-5g is no biggie but 33g is a biggie, ur talking 130+cals which is a lot when ur total for the day is only 1600..

[-KJ-]

405,

Its not the quantity of food as much as convenience. If I have time meals will be all whole foods if im stuck for time shakes will be involved.
I moved two meals into one as looking at work schedule (I work 7 days every week) it fits better so hope this is ok if not I can change again.