Frustration high, discipline low!

[Lunk1]

If you think you are frustrated at my failures....imagine my frustration!

I am hoping to try and shed some fat before the big conditioning comp and more importantly...before lake season!

I had attemted IF but it created mad cravings that pushed me to fail miserably! I had some success at a 60/20/20 before the Holidays rolled around and went from 240 down to 233.

Current complete stats:

6'
242
20+%
Waist 41 (measured at the belly button)
Chest 47
Neck 19
Bi's 18.5
Forearms 14
Quads 26.5
Calves 17.5

Currently cruising on 250mg test E

[Lunk1]

My TDEE is approx. 2900 and I will be shooting for around 2000-2500 per day!

Woke at approx. 8:00 a.m. and just finished 20 min of fasted elliptical at 11:30 a.m. (300 cals)!

[Back In Black]

Ha ha, here he is I knew you'd be here sooner or later mate.

Were you unhappy with your pre holiday success? Feel you need something different? If so, why?

60/20/20 can be pretty tough to get used to. Apparently. I've never felt the need to have carbs less than 30%, even cutting to sub 8%. But we aren't all cut from the same cloth. I do cardio when cutting, I know you have an allergy to the word, even

And your 20+%, is that like 21% or 29%?

Not that I'm gonna help you compete agains me, you understand.

[gbrice75]

If you think you are frustrated at my failures....imagine my frustration!

I am hoping to try and shed some fat before the big conditioning comp and more importantly...before lake season!

I had attemted IF but it created mad cravings that pushed me to fail miserably! I had some success at a 60/20/20 before the Holidays rolled around and went from 240 down to 233.

Current complete stats:

6'
242
20+%
Waist 41 (measured at the belly button)
Chest 47
Neck 19
Bi's 18.5
Forearms 14
Quads 26.5
Calves 17.5

Currently cruising on 250mg test E

Out of curiosity - with a 41" waist, what size pants are you wearing? And what about jeans? I ask because I'm willing to bet i'd measure somewhere around the same as you right now, yet i'm sitting here in 34's. I look and FEEL like a 41... but the pants don't lie.

[Lunk1]

Ha ha, here he is I knew you'd be here sooner or later mate.

Were you unhappy with your pre holiday success? Feel you need something different? If so, why?

60/20/20 can be pretty tough to get used to. Apparently. I've never felt the need to have carbs less than 30%, even cutting to sub 8%. But we aren't all cut from the same cloth. I do cardio when cutting, I know you have an allergy to the word, even

And your 20+%, is that like 21% or 29%?

Not that I'm gonna help you compete agains me, you understand.

I would gladely take a dive in the comp to hit 12-13% LOL.

Yes..I was happy with the pre holiday results...There was a serious bout of flu and Holidays..I simply was not able to get back on track like I had hoped! After talking to 405 I wanted to give IF a go but I feel it honestly set me up for failure (my failure I know)!

I wouldnt call it an allergy to cardio...more like a bad divorce! I had sooo much of it in my military and football days and feel like I divorced it!

Safe number is probably 22%. I am hoping to bod pod in March!

[Lunk1]

Out of curiosity - with a 41" waist, what size pants are you wearing? And what about jeans? I ask because I'm willing to bet i'd measure somewhere around the same as you right now, yet i'm sitting here in 34's. I look and FEEL like a 41... but the pants don't lie.

Depending on the cut....36-38!

[--->>405<<---]

Lunk im glad to see u started a thread.. heres the deal.. if u follow the diet u eventually get out of this thread u WILL get the results u want. the question is: will u comply??

i had a 42" waist and wore 36-38 and my bf was 26% at 5'9" 213lbs..

IMO u should consider 50/30/20 instead of 60/20/20.. at ur bf% it will not take a lot to get the fat to start coming off. u will do better to leave more room for tweaking down the road if u start with what id consider to be an easier split. this split, because it is easier, may actually prove to be more effective than 60/20/20 because itll be easier to stick to!

[Back In Black]

I haven't entered into the other thread/discussion about fasting but, I couldn't do it either. And I don't believe in it!!!!!

Anyhow, my preferred option when cutting, through lots of experiments with myself, is to run a straight 50/30/20 split over 4 meals per day. 4 meals give enough food each time to make me not particularly hungry throughout the day. Your maintenance, in theory, is approx 2850cals. The deficit is your choice really. If I was doing cardio 5-7x per week my deficit would start approx 200cals. If my cardio was 2-4xpw it'd be 500cals. I'd then adjust accordingly.

It's a straight forward approach, it's easy, same amounts every day(unless you want to eat less carbs on non workout days) and you can be on autopilot with it after only a few days.

Not that I'm helping you!

[--->>405<<---]

knowing what i now know about diet i think its safe to say i will never (never say never ) go back to 60/20/20 .. there are too many options that are just as, if not more, effective where u get to eat carbs. maybe not every day but on the days u do get em u actually get em. from my experience the most challenging aspect of cutting is ur ability to deal with carbohydrate deprivation..

[--->>405<<---]

it looks like we are in agreement stem.. lunk id go with 50/30/20 dude.. for all the reasons given. lets face it.. u have a good amount of fat on u. u do NOT have to go balls to the wall right now to get results. like ive already said, starting a bit easier will make it where u can comply better and itll leave room for when ur progress slows to make adjustments in order to break thru sticking spots.. and it will happen!

[gbrice75]

the most challenging aspect of cutting is ur ability to deal with carbohydrate deprivation..

^^ yep

[Lunk1]

Eatin breakfast now...I guess in a sense I still fasted for 5 hours....

3 eggs and 1 egg white
1 large venison burger
1 bag mixed seasoned veggies

[Lunk1]

I hear 100% about carb depletion...my cravings get sooo bad after a while that my brain forces me to stop at Subway even if I know better!

[--->>405<<---]

^^forget fasting for now dude.. that is unnecessary at ur bf%.. worry only about:
1. building a diet
2. sticking to a diet
3. doing cardio
4. lifting weights

in that order IMO

[Lunk1]

^^forget fasting for now dude.. that is unnecessary at ur bf%.. worry only about:
1. building a diet
2. sticking to a diet
3. doing cardio
4. lifting weights

in that order IMO

Was not intentional to fast..just worked out that way before I could get my cardio in and then eat!

[canesfan804]

Lunk try looking into John Keifer's books. The Carb Nite Solution and Carb Backloading. I tried to do a bulk with the carb backloading but actually lost weight. It was alot of cals to get in such a small window. I did get pretty ripped for my standards tho. Also you said 20 mins on elliptical thats just a warm up bro. Need minimum of 40 mins unless you are doing HIIT the I would still do 24 mins. I have a friend who is probably 5' 10" 205 lbs @8-10% bf naturally who swears by Keifers books. It is IF but you take 10 grams of whey with coffee and MCT oil every coup hrs which really helps with cravings. Good luck homie!

[Back In Black]

Eatin breakfast now...I guess in a sense I still fasted for 5 hours....

3 eggs and 1 egg white
1 large venison burger
1 bag mixed seasoned veggies

5 hours isn't fasting, don't worry.

Nice breakfast, I'm having venison for dinner in an hour.

Even if you go for 2350 cals at the suggested split you still get 180g carbs. I'd put them in first 3 meals rather than 2 to minimise cravings.

[Tron3219]

Good to see u on the right side of the fence lunk lol

-TroN-

[canesfan804]

I hear 100% about carb depletion...my cravings get sooo bad after a while that my brain forces me to stop at Subway even if I know better!

Subway! Man up Lunk! Cmon man if you gonna go go all out. Firehouse or Quizno's and double the meat!

[Tron3219]

And by right side of the fence I mean nutrition forum.... Not high bf...tho that is beneficial to me being we are arch enemies come march 15!!!

-TroN-

[RaginCajun]

old clunker started a log!

i didn't see DQ blizzards in your plan? are you ok?

glad to see you finally started this.

lay out your plan and let us pick it apart

i agree with the others and think 50/30/20 is easier to stick to

what are your daily workout/training times?

don't make me get your good couisin dan12313 in here to help you!

[--->>405<<---]

242lbs 22% (bet its higher)
242 x .78 = 188.76 (lbs LBM)
188.76 x 15 = 2831cals (rough maintenance)

if u run a 500cal deficit then 2350cals like stem said

2400 50/30/20
300g pro
180g carbs
53g fat

where id start..

carbs 60g meal 1, pre, PWO..

[canesfan804]

Wether its true or not I have read that you dont start BURNING fat till around 20 mis of cardio. Therfore I do 40-60 mins 3-5xs a week when I try to cut, sometimes more if I am up to it. You can do it man just gotta want it.

[Lunk1]

old clunker started a log!

i didn't see DQ blizzards in your plan? are you ok?

glad to see you finally started this.

lay out your plan and let us pick it apart

i agree with the others and think 50/30/20 is easier to stick to

what are your daily workout/training times?

don't make me get your good couisin dan12313 in here to help you!

DQ here closes over the winter but opens again mid March...just in time for the comp. That stuff puts muscle on like nobodys business lol!

I normally hit my weight training at 4pm. I was doing a 2 on 1 off 1 on 1 off 2 on split while I attempted IF. I will most likely go back to a 5 on 2 off routine now though!

I will do fasted am cardio AT LEAST 2 times per week and post workout cardio 3-4 times a week!

[Lunk1]

242lbs 22% (bet its higher)
242 x .78 = 188.76 (lbs LBM)
188.76 x 15 = 2831cals (rough maintenance)

if u run a 500cal deficit then 2350cals like stem said

2400 50/30/20
300g pro
180g carbs
53g fat

where id start..

carbs 60g meal 1, pre, PWO..

Your counting starchy carbs only thouigh correct? Not carbs from veggies....

[RaginCajun]

Your counting starchy carbs only thouigh correct? Not carbs from veggies....

i think that is how he does it.

[Lunk1]

Lunk try looking into John Keifer's books. The Carb Nite Solution and Carb Backloading. I tried to do a bulk with the carb backloading but actually lost weight. It was alot of cals to get in such a small window. I did get pretty ripped for my standards tho. Also you said 20 mins on elliptical thats just a warm up bro. Need minimum of 40 mins unless you are doing HIIT the I would still do 24 mins. I have a friend who is probably 5' 10" 205 lbs @8-10% bf naturally who swears by Keifers books. It is IF but you take 10 grams of whey with coffee and MCT oil every coup hrs which really helps with cravings. Good luck homie!

Perhaps I'm wrong but i guess I look at it as calories in/calories out. I burned 300 cals in that 20 min. (yes I will be ramping it up but I have a heavy gym day later and perhaps followed by more cardio)

[kelkel]

Crap. Just realized I was in the nutrition forum and I'm way out of place. Sorry. Leaving now.....

Be nice to Lunk.

[canesfan804]

Im not a expert so correct me if Im wrong but for us old guys a good fat burning hr is around 130. I believe if you get higher you eat into muscle also.

I have better sucess at the 130-140 range for 40-60 mins than the 150-160 range for 20-30mins. But everyone is a little different, hell some guys dont even do cardio. We unfortunately are not those guys any longer. My friend I referred to earlier prefers HIIT because he gets same results in less time.

[canesfan804]

I will admit that 405 seems to have his sh** together in the nutrition forum. I will be getting in touch with him also after this bulk of mine ends. If I ever stop bulking that is, kinda like no cardio.

[RaginCajun]

Crap. Just realized I was in the nutrition forum and I'm way out of place. Sorry. Leaving now.....

Be nice to Lunk.

you must have saw that cardio word and skeedattled!

[Lunk1]

you must have saw that cardio word and skeedattled!

He saw me create a thread and was hoping it was more fake boobs!

[RaginCajun]

He saw me create a thread and was hoping it was more fake boobs!

hahahaha, true!

[--->>405<<---]

Your counting starchy carbs only thouigh correct? Not carbs from veggies....

yes thats right.. now lets see u get a diet together and post it! enuff of this chit chat u have real work to do here mister!

[RaginCajun]

yes thats right.. now lets see u get a diet together and post it! enuff of this chit chat u have real work to do here mister!

pressure is on!

[Back In Black]

Re - cardio. Just burn cals. At 20+% your bf will help preserve you LBM. Even fasted, just drop 5-10g BCAA's or 2-3g l-tyrosine and 200-300mg caffeine 20-30 mins beforehand.

You can start being more technical about heart rates at 12% or less.

[--->>405<<---]

Re - cardio. Just burn cals. At 20+% your bf will help preserve you LBM. Even fasted, just drop 5-10g BCAA's or 2-3g l-tyrosine and 200-300mg caffeine 20-30 mins beforehand.

You can start being more technical about heart rates at 12% or less.

i usually do 120-135 HR what about u stem for single digit bf?? 60 mins..

[Back In Black]

i usually do 120-135 HR what about u stem for single digit bf?? 60 mins..

If I wasn't doing a HIIT/LIC/interval combo I'd be a steady 124.

[--->>405<<---]

not 123 or 125?

[canesfan804]

For me its easier to do 600 cals in 60 mins @120-130 than it is to do 300 cals in 20 mins at a higher hr even tho its a lot longer to do it.