Milk is bad?

**ChiveOn** · 04-17-2013, 06:13 PM

So I've been reading a lot lately about milk givin you that "soft look" and I was wondering just to what extent there is truth behind this.
22y/o
188lbs
6'0
12%~ bf
Consistent training
Starting 2nd complete cycle test/tren /mast/T3 after 23rd birthday (6 weeks)
I've posted diet with complete macros in the past months for critique and come down from 15-16% body fat. Probably will be around 11% when I start
Goals: looking to hit 8-10% body fat for the duration of the summer months

I really only drink skim but it's a gallon a week plus Greek yogurt daily. Would cutting milk out entirely change my physique at all if, say, I changed nothing else?
I take multivitamins, liver support, and fish oils daily. Is there anything I would need to add to supplement for losing dairy in my diet?

Thanks all!

**Sgt. Hartman** · 04-17-2013, 06:45 PM

I'm sure you'll get a lot of differing opinions re milk but what is it specifically that makes you think a gallon of skim a week would make you look soft if you're hitting your macros?

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 06:50 PM

Not this again....lol

Hey sarge, since we're in the topic. I've noticed anything from a cow has a tendency to cause us to secrete insulin even if it has a low GI. Ie mil has a GI of roughly 46 which is relatively low but will cause a good insulin spike. And beef, well is pure protein and partial fat, should have next to nothing as a score in the GI but releases almost as much insulin as an apple. Thoughts on why?

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

**austinite** · 04-17-2013, 06:51 PM

I think he means feeling bloated. op?

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

I think he means feeling bloated. op?

The bloat is a sign of lactose intolerance, no?

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

**ChiveOn** · 04-17-2013, 07:20 PM

I'm not feeling bloated at all. More of I see advice given that you should try to avoid dairy when tryi to get into the lower bf %s. off the top of my head Austinite seems to have a strong opinion against milk quoting that "milk is the enemy"
I was just wondering if I dropped dairy and replaced it with something else to make up the calories lost. Say extra eggs or something. Would I see any type of difference

**austinite** · 04-17-2013, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tron3219

The bloat is a sign of lactose intolerance, no?

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

yes and no. Even tolerant folks can feel bloated.

**Sgt. Hartman** · 04-17-2013, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tron3219

Not this again....lol

Hey sarge, since we're in the topic. I've noticed anything from a cow has a tendency to cause us to secrete insulin even if it has a low GI. Ie mil has a GI of roughly 46 which is relatively low but will cause a good insulin spike. And beef, well is pure protein and partial fat, should have next to nothing as a score in the GI but releases almost as much insulin as an apple. Thoughts on why?

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

I don't pay too much attention to Gi to be honest. I've learned that I process carbs very efficiently and I make a lot better gains when i eat a lot of them lol.

Honestly I didn't know and have no explanation why beef would be higher gi than any other meat with the same macros.

Regardless though a little insulin release doesn't deter me at all. Hell I eat jasmine rice and white potato pretty much everyday.

Everyones different though and imo it's all about learning how your body grows/cuts best.

Originally Posted by ChiveOn

I'm not feeling bloated at all. More of I see advice given that you should try to avoid dairy when tryi to get into the lower bf %s. off the top of my head Austinite seems to have a strong opinion against milk quoting that "milk is the enemy"
I was just wondering if I dropped dairy and replaced it with something else to make up the calories lost. Say extra eggs or something. Would I see any type of difference

You should try it and find out. I drink over a gallon of milk a week and at the risk of sounding arrogant I'm shredded and dry looking even off cycle right now.

I could definitely see an issue though if you had any type of allergy to dairy or lactose intolerance but really that goes for any type of food that anyone has those issues with (gluten, nuts, etc).

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman

I don't pay too much attention to Gi to be honest. I've learned that I process carbs very efficiently and I make a lot better gains when i eat a lot of them lol.

Honestly I didn't know and have no explanation why beef would be higher gi than any other meat with the same macros.

Regardless though a little insulin release doesn't deter me at all. Hell I eat jasmine rice and white potato pretty much everyday.

Everyones different though and imo it's all about learning how your body grows/cuts best.

Beef has a low GI, but has a relatively high insulin index. Too different scales. And i was just seeing ur thoughts on the subject

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

**GirlyGymRat** · 04-17-2013, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tron3219

Beef has a low GI, but has a relatively high insulin index. Too different scales. And i was just seeing ur thoughts on the subject

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

I have never seen an insulin index. Very interesting comment TroN! To google I go!

**austinite** · 04-17-2013, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman

I don't pay too much attention to Gi to be honest. I've learned that I process carbs very efficiently and I make a lot better gains when i eat a lot of them lol.

Honestly I didn't know and have no explanation why beef would be higher gi than any other meat with the same macros.

Regardless though a little insulin release doesn't deter me at all. Hell I eat jasmine rice and white potato pretty much everyday.

Everyones different though and imo it's all about learning how your body grows/cuts best.

You should try it and find out. I drink over a gallon of milk a week and at the risk of sounding arrogant I'm shredded and dry looking even off cycle right now.

I could definitely see an issue though if you had any type of allergy to dairy or lactose intolerance but really that goes for any type of food that anyone has those issues with (gluten, nuts, etc).

Perfect statement above. I myself love milk. Always have, but I simply can't drink it anymore. Not because I'm intolerant, but my body just won't shed at a reasonable rate if Milk is in my diet.

Whether there is a study behind it or not, it really boils down to you, and how your body reacts. Maybe I'm just jealous of milk drinkers. lol, but really if someone is at a stand still with a spot on macro/caloric intake, an elimination process wouldn't hurt.

My business partner is the most ridiculous human being I have ever met. Anyone who sees him that doesn't know him, would never ever believe that he eats nothing but fast food. He's easily at 8 or 9% BF, and a milk drinker, too! I'm still waiting to speak to my nutritionist about my personal issues with milk, she is a genius and I value her opinion. I look forward to sharing her thoughts.

But OP, if you feel that something might be bogging you down, eliminate it for a while and see if anything changes. It's that simple. If you're happy with your progress while drinking milk, keep drinking it. It certainly has it's place in nutritional value.

**ChiveOn** · 04-17-2013, 07:59 PM

Ok, fair enough. Ill give it a month and see if I see any noticeable differences thanks guys

**gbrice75** · 04-17-2013, 08:00 PM

That whole 'milk makes you soft' is sick a ridiculous statement. Protein wise, milk is an excellent source. Half the people saying this shit are chugging whey and/or casein shakes by the bucket!

Some handle milk just fine, others not as good. As stated, there's the lactose intolerance issue (a lot of people are and don't even realize it) and associated bloating, gassiness, etc. I assume this is where the 'soft' mantra started.

I love milk, but my body doesn't - so when I'm cutting, it's out. Almond and coconut milk only. When I'm not cutting, I allow it in moderate amounts, mainly to maintain a level of bodily comfort... and so my wife doesn't divorce me citing abuse via the Dutch oven!

**austinite** · 04-17-2013, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by ChiveOn

Ok, fair enough. Ill give it a month and see if I see any noticeable differences thanks guys

Would LOVE to hear a follow up on this. thanks Chiveon.

**MickeyKnox** · 04-17-2013, 08:07 PM

Try to find this online. Its one of the best Milk Documentaries on the net. I do not eat most dairy products buy choice, especially the big 4.

Got the facts on Milk? The Milk Documentary Trailer. GTFOMilk - YouTube

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat

I have never seen an insulin index. Very interesting comment TroN! To google I go!

For most things the glycemic index and insulin index show a direct correlation, but doesn't seem to b so with anything from a cow (milk and beef).

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

**stackedbro** · 04-17-2013, 08:16 PM

As long as your hitting your macros you should have no problem. Find a good low carb diet and carb cycle for cutting.

**GirlyGymRat** · 04-17-2013, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tron3219

For most things the glycemic index and insulin index show a direct correlation, but doesn't seem to b so with anything from a cow (milk and beef).

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

I just read an article but haven't seen any values yet. I am diabetic controlled with diet exercise and oral med. it's hereditary and I think I have insulin resistance so this index interests me.

I don't really eat much beef but I do drink kefir made from 2% milk however it is lactose free so if I am eating low gi non beef and non milk, I should be ok. Always learning something new

**ChiveOn** · 04-17-2013, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Would LOVE to hear a follow up on this. thanks Chiveon.

I'll enjoy killing all the dairy I have over the next week

and ill give it a go. Ill update after a few weeks

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat

I just read an article but haven't seen any values yet. I am diabetic controlled with diet exercise and oral med. it's hereditary and I think I have insulin resistance so this index interests me.

I don't really eat much beef but I do drink kefir made from 2% milk however it is lactose free so if I am eating low gi non beef and non milk, I should be ok. Always learning something new

Almonds reduces insulin resistance and decreases insulin secretion.

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 08:44 PM

Also ggr, I started a post awhile back that got no replies called insulin index. There's some values in that link

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

**Sgt. Hartman** · 04-17-2013, 08:57 PM

I'm not familiar with this insulin index but how can it be even remotely accurate when different individuals have such varied responses based on their own sensitivity to insulin?

**MACKATTACK** · 04-17-2013, 08:59 PM

I just ditched Milk from my diet the past week for the first time ever and I have seen a difference in water retention and insulin spikes and sugar/food hungers.

**Tron3219** · 04-17-2013, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman

I'm not familiar with this insulin index but how can it be even remotely accurate when different individuals have such varied responses based on their own sensitivity to insulin?

good question! lol honestly i dont have an answer for you. it was just one of those things i ran across and thought id throw out there to be tossed around. just to see what was said about it.

**Perseverance1** · 04-17-2013, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by ChiveOn

So I've been reading a lot lately about milk givin you that "soft look" and I was wondering just to what extent there is truth behind this.
22y/o
188lbs
6'0
12%~ bf
Consistent training
Starting 2nd complete cycle test/tren /mast/T3 after 23rd birthday (6 weeks)
I've posted diet with complete macros in the past months for critique and come down from 15-16% body fat. Probably will be around 11% when I start
Goals: looking to hit 8-10% body fat for the duration of the summer months

I really only drink skim but it's a gallon a week plus Greek yogurt daily. Would cutting milk out entirely change my physique at all if, say, I changed nothing else?
I take multivitamins, liver support, and fish oils daily. Is there anything I would need to add to supplement for losing dairy in my diet?

Thanks all!

6'0
188
12% bf and you're on your second cycle?!?!?!

O-M-G

In the words of Marcus...what ever happened to hard work?

#provingapoint-_-"

As far as the dairy goes....I know your body digests it differently and Skip from intense muscle generally tells people to steer clear of it while on a cut...take what you will from that : /