PWO: Your muscles benefit more from one large portion of whey than ten small ones

[Turkish Juicer]

17.04.2013

Post workout: your muscles benefit more from one large portion of whey than ten small ones

Post workout: your muscles benefit more from one large portion of whey than ten small ones
After a workout muscles recover and grow faster the more amino acids they can absorb from the blood. That's why so many strength athletes drink a shake with whey or another easily absorbed protein after working out. Sports scientists at McMaster University in Canada have discovered that strength athletes benefit more from ingesting the whey in one large portion than in several small ones.

There are indications that proteins have a strong anabolic effect in elderly people if you administer them in concentrated form: to start with you deny your body protein for a number of hours and then you give it a couple of dozen grams at once.

Research on protein pulse feeding is popular among athletes who believe in intermittent fasting. Logical, as an increased anabolic effect from a concentrated administration of protein meshes seamlessly with the idea of intermittent fasting.

The Canadians make no comment about intermittent fasting or protein pulsing. Their article is more fundamental.

The researchers got male students to train their upper leg with 8 sets of 10 reps on a leg extension machine and then gave the students proteins. Half of the students were immediately given a giant-size shake containing 25 g whey [BOLUS], the other half were given a mini-shake every 20 minutes containing 2.5 g whey [PULSE]. [A little confusing as we just talked about protein pulses: our apologies.]

The set up for the experiment is shown below.



Throughout the 320 minutes that the researchers monitored the students' blood they found the same amounts of essential amino acids [below left] and leucine [below right] in both the 25 g group and the 10 X 2.5 g group.







But over time there's a clear difference: in the 25 g group [BOLUS] you can see that there was a peak in the essential amino acid and leucine concentration an hour after intake. In the 10 X 2.5 g group [PULSE] there’s no peak.

The excessive amount of essential amino acids and leucine stimulates the production of muscle fibre protein [Myofibrillar FSR] the Canadians discovered when they studied samples of muscle tissue from the subjects.



"In conclusion, we report that BOLUS after resistance exercise is more effective in stimulating myofibrillar protein synthesis than is PULSE", the researchers conclude. "The greater myofibrillar protein synthesis response after BOLUS was associated with greater acute phosphorylation of anabolic signaling proteins that regulate translation initiation. The rapid rise in extracellular essential amino acid concentrations, or possibly of leucine alone, that occurred after BOLUS appears to underpin the greater signal activation and protein synthetic response that are observed after an acute bout of resistance exercise."

Source: Am J Clin Nutr. 2011 Sep;94(3):795-803.

ergo-log

[stackedbro]

Great read

[jimmyinkedup]

Good post. Just as an example and to show the problem when it comes to studies, especially on nutrition, is if you look after reading the above you then find one like this:

J Physiol. 2013 Mar 4. [Epub ahead of print]

Timing and distribution of protein ingestion during prolonged recovery from resistance exercise alters myofibrillar protein synthesis.

Areta JL, Burke LM, Ross ML, Camera DM, West DW, Broad EM, Jeacocke NA, Moore DR, Stellingwerff T, Phillips SM, Hawley J, Coffey VG.


Source

RMIT University;


Abstract


Quantity and timing of protein ingestion are major factors regulating myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS). However, the effect of specific ingestion patterns on MPS throughout a 12 h period is unknown. We determined how different distribution of protein feeding during 12 h recovery after resistance exercise affects anabolic responses in skeletal muscle. 24 healthy trained males were assigned to three groups (n=8/group) and undertook a bout of resistance exercise followed by ingestion of 80 g of whey protein throughout 12 h recovery as either: 8x10 g every 1.5 h (PULSE); 4x20 g every 3 h (intermediate: INT); or 2x40 g every 6 h (BOLUS). Muscle biopsies were obtained at rest and after 1, 4, 6, 7 and 12 h post-exercise. Resting and post-exercise MPS (L-[ring-13C6] phenylalanine), and muscle mRNA abundance and cell signalling were assessed. All ingestion protocols increased MPS above rest throughout 1-12 h recovery (88-148%, P<0.02), but INT elicited greater MPS than PULSE and BOLUS (31-48%, P<0.02). In general signalling showed a BOLUS>INT>PULSE hierarchy in magnitude of phosphorylation. MuRF-1 and SLC38A2 mRNA were differentially expressed with BOLUS. In conclusion, 20 g of whey protein consumed every 3 h was superior to either PULSE or BOLUS feeding patterns for stimulating MPS throughout the day. This study provides novel information on the effect of modulating the distribution of protein intake on anabolic responses in skeletal muscle and has potential to maximise outcomes of resistance training for attaining peak muscle mass.

Study you posted TJ is a great read and I appreciate you sharing it - my point is just nutrition wise there is so much conflicting yet very real data.

[Turkish Juicer]

Good post. Just as an example and to show the problem when it comes to studies, especially on nutrition, is if you look after reading the above you then find one like this:

Study you posted TJ is a great read and I appreciate you sharing it - my point is just nutrition wise there is so much conflicting yet very real data.

Agreed. Thank you!

[951thompson]

Interesting

[gearbox]

Good post. Just as an example and to show the problem when it comes to studies, especially on nutrition, is if you look after reading the above you then find one like this:

J Physiol. 2013 Mar 4. [Epub ahead of print]

Timing and distribution of protein ingestion during prolonged recovery from resistance exercise alters myofibrillar protein synthesis.

Areta JL, Burke LM, Ross ML, Camera DM, West DW, Broad EM, Jeacocke NA, Moore DR, Stellingwerff T, Phillips SM, Hawley J, Coffey VG.

Source

RMIT University;

Abstract

Quantity and timing of protein ingestion are major factors regulating myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS). However, the effect of specific ingestion patterns on MPS throughout a 12 h period is unknown. We determined how different distribution of protein feeding during 12 h recovery after resistance exercise affects anabolic responses in skeletal muscle. 24 healthy trained males were assigned to three groups (n=8/group) and undertook a bout of resistance exercise followed by ingestion of 80 g of whey protein throughout 12 h recovery as either: 8x10 g every 1.5 h (PULSE); 4x20 g every 3 h (intermediate: INT); or 2x40 g every 6 h (BOLUS). Muscle biopsies were obtained at rest and after 1, 4, 6, 7 and 12 h post-exercise. Resting and post-exercise MPS (L-[ring-13C6] phenylalanine), and muscle mRNA abundance and cell signalling were assessed. All ingestion protocols increased MPS above rest throughout 1-12 h recovery (88-148%, P<0.02), but INT elicited greater MPS than PULSE and BOLUS (31-48%, P<0.02). In general signalling showed a BOLUS>INT>PULSE hierarchy in magnitude of phosphorylation. MuRF-1 and SLC38A2 mRNA were differentially expressed with BOLUS. In conclusion, 20 g of whey protein consumed every 3 h was superior to either PULSE or BOLUS feeding patterns for stimulating MPS throughout the day. This study provides novel information on the effect of modulating the distribution of protein intake on anabolic responses in skeletal muscle and has potential to maximise outcomes of resistance training for attaining peak muscle mass.

Study you posted TJ is a great read and I appreciate you sharing it - my point is just nutrition wise there is so much conflicting yet very real data.

I believe its about finding your sweet spot. Personally I have always done about 30 grams cause if I do 20 I am hungry and 40 I feel bloated in stomach area. I just believe you find that spot. obviously Marcus who weighs around 250 will have a different amount per serving then my 190.

[tigerspawn]

Both studies are correct in their findings. The first study uses such small amount for periodic feedings that it doesn’t make sense. The human body can only use around 30g of protein at a time. Taking a bolus serving around 30g makes more sense. The second study has researchers dividing 80g of protein throughout 12hr. If an individual consumed the large bolus of 80g over half of the bolus would be wasted. Dividing the dosages into usable amounts is going to equal better gains.

[Indymuscleguy]

Both studies are correct in their findings. The first study uses such small amount for periodic feedings that it doesn’t make sense. The human body can only use around 30g of protein at a time. Taking a bolus serving around 30g makes more sense. The second study has researchers dividing 80g of protein throughout 12hr. If an individual consumed the large bolus of 80g over half of the bolus would be wasted. Dividing the dosages into usable amounts is going to equal better gains.

Interesting...I thought the body could handle up to 50g of protein. I do between 46-50g PWO. Am I now wasting 16-20g's?

[cj111]

Good post man.

Am I now wasting 16-20g's?

No, the only way protein is wasted I believe is if you're eating more through the entire day than your body needs. Protein content per sitting shouldn't matter as much as your daily figure.

[Indymuscleguy]

Good post man.

No, the only way protein is wasted I believe is if you're eating more through the entire day than your body needs. Protein content per sitting shouldn't matter as much as your daily figure.

So, being 185lbs, I strive for 1-1.25g per lb bodyweight/per day. (1g most days) What would be my 'daily figure' or 'daily maximum'?

[MajorPectorial]

Great post.

I now do 1-1.1/2 hours intense weights session.
Immediate shake but half the recommended amount of water.
Half hour break
half hour to 45 mins hiit style workout.

Seeing how this works. Damn hard to do hiit after a damn hard workout. But feels damn good after doing it.

I feel more definition is definitely coming through yet weights stable at 110kg.

I check this daily. In the same way. Religiously.

Cant wait for my 6monthly body stamp ;-);-)

[tigerspawn]

"How much protein in one meal?
QUESTION: How much protein can a bodybuilder or athlete absorb in one meal?

ANSWER: The amount of protein an athlete (or non-athlete) can absorb/metabolize is referred to as the protein threshold and is very specific. The storage capacity of proteins, also called the protein threshold, relates to the maximum amount of protein the human body can process without negative consequences. The protein threshold in humans has been well established in the scientific literature and in current research. One of the most interesting aspects of protein research is that, no matter how much a human weighs, the protein threshold is still the same: 30 grams of elemental protein. For example, in world class powerlifters (who weigh up to 400 pounds) the protein threshold does not exceed 30 grams within a 2-3 hour period. During the time I worked with Mr. Universe Ron Coleman (Editor’s Note: Just for clarification there are two champion bodybuilders named Ron Coleman – one is Mr. Universe and the other is eight-time Mr. Olympia) and the World Powerlifting Federation, my research team experimented with different forms of protein and varying levels of protein intake. Women powerlifters were squatting 650 pounds, and the men were lifting 1000 pounds! This gave us the perfect test subjects to determine the maximum amount of protein a human could metabolize at one time.

Additionally, the Glycemic Research Institute just completed a two million dollar research project on protein thresh holding, which reflects the same findings as the study published in the February 2010 issue of the journal of Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, in which researchers concluded that there is “Significantly reduced loss of lean body mass with increased protein compared with a normal protein diet in healthy lean athletes.”

The bottom line in protein research reflects the following guidelines:

• In world class bodybuilders, such as Mr. Olympia, who hold huge amounts of muscle mass and low amounts of body fat, regardless of weight or size or calories burned, the 30-gram protein rule does not change. The same holds true with other elite athletes.

• The average non-athlete does not require an intake of 30 grams of protein at one time and can achieve protein homeostasis by ingesting specific forms and amounts of protein throughout the day.

• Based on my research, using proteins at the 30-gram dose in an inappropriate ketogenic formula or product (proteins without carbohydrates) can cause serious problems, including ketosis, elevated liver enzymes, and liver strain.

• Some research suggests that humans ingesting ketogenic proteins (i.e., those without any carbs) and low carb meal replacement products may result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin and LPL fat storage in fat cells. Ketogenic protein drinks and meal replacements are contraindicated.

• Protein drinks and protein products that contain only sugar alcohols, certain synthetic sweeteners, and other non-carbohydrate ingredients may hinder healthy protein storage capacity and push the body into ketosis.

• For maximum growth hormone (GH) release, protein drinks should not be consumed near bedtime, as this causes lowered delta-stimulated GH and testosterone production.

• Proteins that contain high glycemic ingredients result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin, lipoprotein (LPL), and fat storage in adipose tissue fat cells.

The Doctor’s Prescription

Bodybuilders cannot metabolize more than 30 grams of protein at one time, regardless of athletic ability, energy output, weight or size. In terms of maximum muscle mass, the optimum protocol for an anabolic state is:

• Ingest 30 grams of protein combined with low glycemic carbohydrates, taken every 4 waking hours (not during or near sleep cycles).

• Do not ingest proteins 2 hours prior to sleep (avoids blunting GH).

• Do not ingest ketogenic proteins (protein without carbohydrates).

• Low glycemic carbohydrates are superior in protein drinks (as compared to high glycemic carbohydrates) for increasing lean muscle mass and decreasing body fat."

This article and several others give limits on amount of protein that a body can metabolize in a single setting. This is the site that I copied this article from.How much protein in one meal? | MUSCLE INSIDER

[Indymuscleguy]

How much protein in one meal?
QUESTION: How much protein can a bodybuilder or athlete absorb in one meal?

ANSWER: The amount of protein an athlete (or non-athlete) can absorb/metabolize is referred to as the protein threshold and is very specific. The storage capacity of proteins, also called the protein threshold, relates to the maximum amount of protein the human body can process without negative consequences. The protein threshold in humans has been well established in the scientific literature and in current research. One of the most interesting aspects of protein research is that, no matter how much a human weighs, the protein threshold is still the same: 30 grams of elemental protein. For example, in world class powerlifters (who weigh up to 400 pounds) the protein threshold does not exceed 30 grams within a 2-3 hour period. During the time I worked with Mr. Universe Ron Coleman (Editor’s Note: Just for clarification there are two champion bodybuilders named Ron Coleman – one is Mr. Universe and the other is eight-time Mr. Olympia) and the World Powerlifting Federation, my research team experimented with different forms of protein and varying levels of protein intake. Women powerlifters were squatting 650 pounds, and the men were lifting 1000 pounds! This gave us the perfect test subjects to determine the maximum amount of protein a human could metabolize at one time.

Additionally, the Glycemic Research Institute just completed a two million dollar research project on protein thresh holding, which reflects the same findings as the study published in the February 2010 issue of the journal of Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, in which researchers concluded that there is “Significantly reduced loss of lean body mass with increased protein compared with a normal protein diet in healthy lean athletes.”

The bottom line in protein research reflects the following guidelines:

• In world class bodybuilders, such as Mr. Olympia, who hold huge amounts of muscle mass and low amounts of body fat, regardless of weight or size or calories burned, the 30-gram protein rule does not change. The same holds true with other elite athletes.

• The average non-athlete does not require an intake of 30 grams of protein at one time and can achieve protein homeostasis by ingesting specific forms and amounts of protein throughout the day.

• Based on my research, using proteins at the 30-gram dose in an inappropriate ketogenic formula or product (proteins without carbohydrates) can cause serious problems, including ketosis, elevated liver enzymes, and liver strain.

• Some research suggests that humans ingesting ketogenic proteins (i.e., those without any carbs) and low carb meal replacement products may result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin and LPL fat storage in fat cells. Ketogenic protein drinks and meal replacements are contraindicated.

• Protein drinks and protein products that contain only sugar alcohols, certain synthetic sweeteners, and other non-carbohydrate ingredients may hinder healthy protein storage capacity and push the body into ketosis.

• For maximum growth hormone (GH) release, protein drinks should not be consumed near bedtime, as this causes lowered delta-stimulated GH and testosterone production.

• Proteins that contain high glycemic ingredients result in increased body fat levels via elevation of insulin, lipoprotein (LPL), and fat storage in adipose tissue fat cells.

The Doctor’s Prescription

Bodybuilders cannot metabolize more than 30 grams of protein at one time, regardless of athletic ability, energy output, weight or size. In terms of maximum muscle mass, the optimum protocol for an anabolic state is:

• Ingest 30 grams of protein combined with low glycemic carbohydrates, taken every 4 waking hours (not during or near sleep cycles).

• Do not ingest proteins 2 hours prior to sleep (avoids blunting GH).

• Do not ingest ketogenic proteins (protein without carbohydrates).

• Low glycemic carbohydrates are superior in protein drinks (as compared to high glycemic carbohydrates) for increasing lean muscle mass and decreasing body fat.

This article and several others give limits on amount of protein that a body can metabolize in a single setting. This is the site that I copied this article from.How much protein in one meal? | MUSCLE INSIDER

Undoubtedly THE single most informative article I have ever read. This needs to be a sticky

THANK-YOU!

[cj111]

30g protein every 4 hours? That would put me at 90-120 for the day cause I am not awake long enough.. So to me that doesn't really make sense.

[baseline_9]

So, being 185lbs, I strive for 1-1.25g per lb bodyweight/per day. (1g most days) What would be my 'daily figure' or 'daily maximum'?

1-1.5g/lb of LBM..... The leaner and harder you are cutting the higher, the opposite being true for the lower range, i.e. fat and not cutting....


And I suggest that everyone reads layne nortons research on MPS.... Search layne norton muscle protein synthesis

[baseline_9]

Undoubtedly THE single most informative article I have ever read. This needs to be a sticky

THANK-YOU!

Hmmmmmm...... I don't think so, plenty of that article is questionable

[tigerspawn]

So, being 185lbs, I strive for 1-1.25g per lb bodyweight/per day. (1g most days) What would be my 'daily figure' or 'daily maximum'?

The amount of protein that you would take in a day would depend on which school of thought you use for determining body weight. Some individuals take their body weight and multiple that by 1-1.5g/lb. That doesn’t make that much sense. We are using protein to help rebuild damaged muscle in order to help it grow. Most agree that you figure amount of muscle your body has and you multiple that by 1-1.5g/lb.

[tdoe11]

Not nearly enough protein. I can eat a huge meal and be completely starving in three hours. Why would it take four to digest and utilize a protein shake. Seems fishy. I would bet you 20 bucks Ronnie Coleman eats a lot more than 120 grams a day of protein to maintain his muscle!

[Hulking2016]

Great thread