Help with cutting please! like to get to 12% bf

[johnnymctrance]

Hi I am looking for help with cutting! i would like to drop my bodyfat % to around 12% if possible.. i have read some of the stickies about cutting and just want to set up a calorie intake which will allow me to preserve as much lean body mass as possible?

Also what is the best type of cardio that can be done? I do alot of cycling, would this be a good form of cardio?

Stats
5'5
18% bf
165lb
25years old

BMR = 1730kcal/dayTD

TDEE = approx 2400kcals/day

Thanks

[largerthannormal]

eat at 1550-1600

maintenance is 2000

cardio is cardio. dont over think just do it

[Gaspaco]

eat at 1500-1600

maintenance is 2000

cardio is cardio. dont over think just do it

Agree with large!

[johnnymctrance]

Would my tdee of 2400kcals not be maintenance?

[johnnymctrance]

Bump

[bigsiv]

On your stats I work your tdee at 2000 kcals not 2400 bud

[bigsiv]

165 x 0.82 = 135

135 x 15 = 2025 kcals

[johnnymctrance]

Sorry if i sound stupid but doesnt it depend on my level of activity per day? some are more sedentary than others? i work out 5 days per week with a moderatly physical job!

[auswest]

15 is very veryyyyy rough.. My tdee is actually 22.5xlbm so to generalise someone's tdee at x15 is a stretch.....tdee is best worked out through actual dieting experience.but yes we do all have to pick a number as a starting point....very active and ectos are closer to 20

[MajorPectorial]

self monitor mate. Truly is the only 'right'way. See how ur body responds or doesnt for instance. Change.diet or training to suit. Ive had to.do thus myself only recently and

Keep monitoring. Good.luck

[Dougiefresh7707]

165 x 0.82 = 135

135 x 15 = 2025 kcals

I agree with x 15 too as a starting point it works well for me and alot of other from what I hear, accept I take 165x.18(bf) the -29 from 165 and times that by 15 same thing I guess tho I just came up with 2040. Jw what does .82 stand for?

[poison]

If you're worried about losing too much muscle and you have time to spare, I'd start with 1800. Follow that for two weeks and then assess how far you've come. If you're losing only .5-.75 lbs/week then you can definitely drop the calories.

[Dougiefresh7707]

Yea 1800 is a good start just make sure your not losing over 2 lb a week and you muscle should be fine.

[baseline_9]

On your stats I work your tdee at 2000 kcals not 2400 bud

165 x 0.82 = 135

135 x 15 = 2025 kcals

LBM x 15 does not give you TDEE.... How the hell could it, it's not factoring in activity.... LBM x 15 is roughly your mtnce calories.... Ie. if you do nothing all day that is what you burn

[cue_artist]

I find it really annoying when I see members advising others to f***ckin start a cut on 1600 kcal . This guy works out! My 5 year old brother eats more than this . OP Listening to those noobs that advise such low calories on a start of a cut can cause you serious metabolic damage and muscle loss. The ideal way of cutting is to start high on calories and taper them down every week or 2 weeks . You dont need to even lower calories to much if u add in some extra cardio sessions .

[gbrice75]

There are days I consume only. 1700 cals, but that's not 7 days a week. I also have days around. 2500, and a single day around 3500.

[cue_artist]

^^ carb cycling is a different story bro. Some users are giving advise to the OP to start his cut on 1600 kcal. The OP is not carb cyclying. With there advise the OP will run into tons of difficulty losing more weight if his weight stalls because he wont have room for diet modification due to low calories from the beginning of the cut.

[Dougiefresh7707]

LBM x 15 does not give you TDEE.... How the hell could it, it's not factoring in activity.... LBM x 15 is roughly your mtnce calories.... Ie. if you do nothing all day that is what you burn

It is a start it works well for me and its a baseline lol to start from IMO.

[Dougiefresh7707]

I find it really annoying when I see members advising others to f***ckin start a cut on 1600 kcal . This guy works out! My 5 year old brother eats more than this . OP Listening to those noobs that advise such low calories on a start of a cut can cause you serious metabolic damage and muscle loss. The ideal way of cutting is to start high on calories and taper them down every week or 2 weeks . You dont need to even lower calories to much if u add in some extra cardio sessions .

I don't see 1600 if roughly he is 2050 to maintain 1800 is not a big drop he isn't a big guy and if you factor what actual lbm he had its even less I always advice to watch and listen to your body carfully and to not lose more than 2 pounds a week IMO.

[cue_artist]

I can see the stats of the OP. I don't care about any stupid inaccurate formulas that alot of members use down here. If a regular person was eating 3000 and maintaining his weight and then he uses one of the formulas that are posted here and it tells him that he needs 2000 calories to maintain his weight. Do u think its smart to drop to 1600 calories just to follow what the formula is saying and eating 400 cals below that number. Thats a drop of 1400 cals. The smart thing is that you should start your diet by following what you have been doing for a while. That is calculate all the food that you have been eating in the previous months for a typical day and make small modifications to it. There is a reason why alot of members down here can never leach really low bodyfats. Your body is way smarter than any formula. Why make dieting torture !?!?!

[cue_artist]

Plus the OP is a lifting weights ! he is not doing ballet dancing !!

[gbrice75]

^^ carb cycling is a different story bro. Some users are giving advise to the OP to start his cut on 1600 kcal. The OP is not carb cyclying. With there advise the OP will run into tons of difficulty losing more weight if his weight stalls because he wont have room for diet modification due to low calories from the beginning of the cut.

That was exactly my point, and why I posted to distinguish when 1600 calories *may* be ok (carb cycling), and when it probably won't be (calories too low on a daily basis).

[Dougiefresh7707]

I can see the stats of the OP. I don't care about any stupid inaccurate formulas that alot of members use down here. If a regular person was eating 3000 and maintaining his weight and then he uses one of the formulas that are posted here and it tells him that he needs 2000 calories to maintain his weight. Do u think its smart to drop to 1600 calories just to follow what the formula is saying and eating 400 cals below that number. Thats a drop of 1400 cals. The smart thing is that you should start your diet by following what you have been doing for a while. That is calculate all the food that you have been eating in the previous months for a typical day and make small modifications to it. There is a reason why alot of members down here can never leach really low bodyfats. Your body is way smarter than any formula. Why make dieting torture !?!?!

If he had a diet that work for him for awhile in your words do you think he would have to ask for advice on how to diet? I think not I'm 195 5'10 and cut at 2050 so who's to say this isn't ok for my cut. Also we give advice based on facts and opinions take it or leave but I see no use in complaining about it sry if you don't agree with our views.

[Dougiefresh7707]

Plus the OP is a lifting weights ! he is not doing ballet dancing !!

Ballet is a very physical activity

[cue_artist]

^^ The Op was asking for advise and I provided a solution to his question. Second of all it not a matter of agreeing or not agreeing to people views or not. Everybody has the right to post. And the way I see it is that a weight lifter should never go below 2000 calories. Third of all there is no science behind the TDEE formula except the fact that its an estimate. So that estimate might be correct or incorrect. Plus if you think that your science is doing you good why dont place a pic and lets see how defined you are. I have reached contest stage conditions and never went below 2500 Kcals an i am an endomorph

[cue_artist]

^^ also if you are so into research... Why dont you do yourself a favor and research metabolic damage ?

[Dougiefresh7707]

^^ The Op was asking for advise and I provided a solution to his question. Second of all it not a matter of agreeing or not agreeing to people views or not. Everybody has the right to post. And the way I see it is that a weight lifter should never go below 2000 calories. Third of all there is no science behind the TDEE formula except the fact that its an estimate. So that estimate might be correct or incorrect. Plus if you think that your science is doing you good why dont place a pic and lets see how defined you are. I have reached contest stage conditions and never went below 2500 Kcals an i am an endomorph

What works for you might not work for the next guy I don't go below 2 either but someone with less lbm should have no problem doing so on a cut and or carb cycling, furthermore we don't know how hard he's working at lifting and or cardio we must assume he's moderately doing so I see no solution in your post I saw you saw 1600 was too low but no numbers of what you were thinking was right for the op.

[Dougiefresh7707]

^^ also if you are so into research... Why dont you do yourself a favor and research metabolic damage ?

I do know a little about it I hardly beleave 1600 at his lbm will cause metabolic damage far from it.

[gbrice75]

a weight lifter should never go below 2000 calories.

I've gotta disagree with you on this one cue. 2000 is an arbitrary, or at the very least, relative number. It boils down to LBM and metabolic rate... some people just have a naturally slow metabolism... shit, I have the metabolism of a glacier. I will grant you that for probably 90% of guys (another arbitrary number lol), it will be too low - but that still doesn't mean everyone.

Again, I routinely dip below 2000 calories (granted, not 7 days a week) and have managed to maintain strength, even increased on some lifts - and I'm natural. The diet plan I usually follow when I cut is a spin-off of one Nark wrote for me a couple years ago when I was working with him. At first it seemed too low to me too, but I put my faith in him, seeing as he's spent years coaching guys through contest prep and even a few to their pro card... suggests he knows a thing or two about dieting and how our bodies operate.

Maybe it's apples and oranges; I'm talking about carb cycling, you guys aren't. But you did say "never" and I felt compelled to respond to that.

[poison]

He should just take his TDEE and multiply it by .8 and use that as his starting baseline for 2 weeks. After that, he can adjust up or down as need be. If he happens to need 1600, so be it. That does seem low, though.

[cue_artist]

I saw you saw 1600 was too low but no numbers of what you were thinking was right for the op.

This is what i am trying to explain too u for 2 days now . Why would u want to go with numbers ? Numbers are never accurate especially when it comes to our human bodies. I would advise u and the OP to start increasing calories slowly week by week to the point that your body would maintain the same weight with you eating alot of total calories per day . You will add fat in the beginning but then you will notice that your metabolism will adapt to that increase in calories and that fat gain will stop at some point .But on the good note this will allow you start a cut with a high amount of calories . I am saying this because i used to have one of slowest metabolisms in the world . I was 150 kg when i was 17 and now i compete . Before me meeting with my trainer i used to follow all the formulas that alot of members use down here . These numbers would always put me low on calories in the begining and then i reach a plateau and weight loss stops . I never reached lower than 9 % using these formulas . So the bottom line of my post is that i advise people not to go with formulas but going by the amount of calories u eat on a typical day and decrease 200 kcal from that number . This number is more accurate in my opinion because your body has adapted to this amount of kcal and once you decrease from it you will start noticing some weight loss.

[cj111]

Eat sensible, train hard.
Man, 10% is very achievable without all the head aches of crunching numbers and counting shit. You will just stress yourself out!
I'm sure some wont agree with that, but hey, everyones allowed an opinion

Best of luck with the 12%

[gbrice75]

Eat sensible, train hard.
Man, 10% is very achievable without all the head aches of crunching numbers and counting shit. You will just stress yourself out!
I'm sure some wont agree with that, but hey, everyones allowed an opinion

Best of luck with the 12%

^^ agreed. You don't have to go nuts to reach 10-12%. Consistency with a dialed in plan will pretty much get you there.

Leave the heavy thinking for guys training through contest prep.

[Dougiefresh7707]

This is what i am trying to explain too u for 2 days now . Why would u want to go with numbers ? Numbers are never accurate especially when it comes to our human bodies. I would advise u and the OP to start increasing calories slowly week by week to the point that your body would maintain the same weight with you eating alot of total calories per day . You will add fat in the beginning but then you will notice that your metabolism will adapt to that increase in calories and that fat gain will stop at some point .But on the good note this will allow you start a cut with a high amount of calories . I am saying this because i used to have one of slowest metabolisms in the world . I was 150 kg when i was 17 and now i compete . Before me meeting with my trainer i used to follow all the formulas that alot of members use down here . These numbers would always put me low on calories in the begining and then i reach a plateau and weight loss stops . I never reached lower than 9 % using these formulas . So the bottom line of my post is that i advise people not to go with formulas but going by the amount of calories u eat on a typical day and decrease 200 kcal from that number . This number is more accurate in my opinion because your body has adapted to this amount of kcal and once you decrease from it you will start noticing some weight loss.

This may be true for you and I did bulk from 175 to 195 by slowly increasing my cal but for me added bf and in wanted amount I got from 15 to 20 not quickly but it happened an never want to do that again. I agree numbers are a human concept in which the body knows nothing if but we do know that lbm burns its at a specific rate which varies from one person to the next. I am glad this worked for you but I haven't heard it work for many, I have heard getting rough tdee's and working off those have great results. Now I'm not trying to say your way doesn't work or discrediting you for any accomplishments you have made just giving my opinion for the op to chose from.

[crazy mike]

Eat sensible, train hard.
Man, 10% is very achievable without all the head aches of crunching numbers and counting shit. You will just stress yourself out!
I'm sure some wont agree with that, but hey, everyones allowed an opinion

Best of luck with the 12%

^^ agreed. You don't have to go nuts to reach 10-12%. Consistency with a dialed in plan will pretty much get you there.

Leave the heavy thinking for guys training through contest prep.

^^^ Yep, yep, that's the ticket. You training for and through a show. I didn't look bad in my shows back in 85' without counting and crunching numbers. I think you can guestimate and round up and down. That's just me ....crazy mike

[crazy mike]

Being ok, good, poor or get by. I did this without counting the first thing back when I was younger. Being an Ecto, I ate everything and don't have a clue s to my total calorie intake. Just an estimate. When I was leaning out I dropped calories, watched what I ate, had a plan and monitored it in the mirror.


Really just estimate and know what you are eating. This I did for a show. So that's a pretty
good example of what you can do , blind...crazy mike

Looking a bit smooth but I hadn't a clue and it was in 85'

[Dougiefresh7707]

Being ok, good, poor or get by. I did this without counting the first thing back when I was younger. Being an Ecto, I ate everything and don't have a clue s to my total calorie intake. Just an estimate. When I was leaning out I dropped calories, watched what I ate, had a plan and monitored it in the mirror.


Really just estimate and know what you are eating. This I did for a show. So that's a pretty
good example of what you can do , blind...crazy mike

Looking a bit smooth but I hadn't a clue and it was in 85'

Nice mike looking good man,I do think to get to 12 your right the headache of crunching numbers is a b I t c h I guess I just like knowing where I'm at at all times. Also for me carb sensitivity is a problem while cutting. I also hate cutting due to the fear of losing muscle so I do a slow steady cut and this week lost 3 pounds without feeling like I lost muscle and I like it lol.

[poison]

Being ok, good, poor or get by. I did this without counting the first thing back when I was younger. Being an Ecto, I ate everything and don't have a clue s to my total calorie intake. Just an estimate. When I was leaning out I dropped calories, watched what I ate, had a plan and monitored it in the mirror.


Really just estimate and know what you are eating. This I did for a show. So that's a pretty
good example of what you can do , blind...crazy mike

Looking a bit smooth but I hadn't a clue and it was in 85'

Mustache of the kings right there