Ketosis & testosterone help & advice needed.

[jamesthompson91]

Ok 1stly I'm sorry if I'm doing this wrong but I'm not big on forums and unsure how they work, so I found a relative one to post on. That been said...
I'm 21 6ft 1inc 80kg and down to 12% bf my diet is ok quick example...

Morning:
Half a shake 30g
Morning cardio for 20mins HIIT usually
5/6 eggwhites 1 hole egg 30g cheese or some bacon served on top of spinach.
Green tea
20g peanut butter= 12g fat

2nd meal
Usually 200g of chicken grilled on a Forman served with handful of greens, spinach I like to add small serving of tinned chopped tomatoes to add some flavour and moisture
20g peanut butter= 12g fat

Pre workout,
I take an ECA stack or simple black coffe and caffeine as well as 10g of creatine
Mid way through workout I have half a protein shake
Post workout full shake 2scoops and another 10g of creatine.

3rd meal usually about 30 mins after workout
Another meat serving that will give me 50g proteins. No carbs usually again with brockerly or spinach.

4th and 5th
Usually relatively close to the second meal.

Using fitness pal on average it says
I consume 65g fat (sure this should be higher)
243g of proteins
18g carbs


so not going to go too much into it. I'm doing a ketosis diet and I consume 2200 kcal in a mix of proteins and the remaining in good fats and what have you. I get 300g protein in daily. I have 1 refeed day a week in which I eat pretty much what I want. What I would like to know is how effective a testosterone cycle will be, should I maybe up carbs or will my refeed dates service for my cut? When is the best time to take test, around my refeed and dieting? And finally are there any other good supplements I could be taking to help myself in anyway possible? I read about anabolic pump and P-slim to take on refeed to up my glycogen uptake during insulin spikes?!? I say all this loosely as I have no actual background in this and is all based on what I have read, and these days everything seems to contradict them selfs. Should I maybe scrap ketosis and just aim to lean gain on test? Thanks for any help in advanced, sorry if anything I have said is naive but the best way for me to find out is asking.

[Damienm05]

YOUR FATS ARE TOO LOW! 2200 kcal keto should be more like ~200g protein ~150g fat -- you're hindering your fat loss right now. In fact, your body is probably converting that protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis because it's not getting enough fat, so it's not even a keto diet right now. Your meals should be like 5 whole eggs or dark meat chicken with spinach and olive oil, ribeye steaks, etc.

NOW, onto the the fun stuff:

I'd run your keto diet until you're as lean as you want to be. This will A) reduce the risk of sides from the test, B) allow you to maximize your cycle gains by not having to focus on cutting at the same time, and C) prime you for glycogen supercompensation when you start your cycle (basically you'll be more sensitive to carbs and soak that shit up and maximize gains).

To recap: up the fat, finish cutting, slowly add back carbs at 50g a day over the course of a week, begin your cycle and continue to eat slightly above maintenance with plenty of complex carbs daily. If you want to minimize any fat gain and bloating on your cycle, try localizing your carbs around your workout and have pro/fat meals for the rest. Also, anabolic pump is a great supplement for running a balanced complex carb-based diet and not just for refeeds. Good luck!

[jamesthompson91]

Thanks for your quick response and advice. Although I posted this yesterday I wrote it about two weeks ago and massively upped my fats. I am happy with how lean I am now I'm at about 10%. So in response to you do you recone I should scrap the idea of using test to help increase the intensity of my workouts whilst cutting and instead head more towards lean gaining? And if so lean gaining then would you maybe recommend carb cycle then, to increase glycogen uptake whilst staying reasonably lean? For example just something simple like 4days off carbs 3 days on. Maybe low carbs pre and post workout? Thanks again.

[gbrice75]

YOUR FATS ARE TOO LOW! 2200 kcal keto should be more like ~200g protein ~150g fat -- you're hindering your fat loss right now. In fact, your body is probably converting that protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis because it's not getting enough fat, so it's not even a keto diet right now. Your meals should be like 5 whole eggs or dark meat chicken with spinach and olive oil, ribeye steaks, etc.

NOW, onto the the fun stuff:

I'd run your keto diet until you're as lean as you want to be. This will A) reduce the risk of sides from the test, B) allow you to maximize your cycle gains by not having to focus on cutting at the same time, and C) prime you for glycogen supercompensation when you start your cycle (basically you'll be more sensitive to carbs and soak that shit up and maximize gains).

To recap: up the fat, finish cutting, slowly add back carbs at 50g a day over the course of a week, begin your cycle and continue to eat slightly above maintenance with plenty of complex carbs daily. If you want to minimize any fat gain and bloating on your cycle, try localizing your carbs around your workout and have pro/fat meals for the rest. Also, anabolic pump is a great supplement for running a balanced complex carb-based diet and not just for refeeds. Good luck!

Who. Are. You???

LoL... welcome back from the dead, again!!

Sorry for hijacking OP.

[RaginCajun]

YOUR FATS ARE TOO LOW! 2200 kcal keto should be more like ~200g protein ~150g fat -- you're hindering your fat loss right now. In fact, your body is probably converting that protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis because it's not getting enough fat, so it's not even a keto diet right now. Your meals should be like 5 whole eggs or dark meat chicken with spinach and olive oil, ribeye steaks, etc.

NOW, onto the the fun stuff:

I'd run your keto diet until you're as lean as you want to be. This will A) reduce the risk of sides from the test, B) allow you to maximize your cycle gains by not having to focus on cutting at the same time, and C) prime you for glycogen supercompensation when you start your cycle (basically you'll be more sensitive to carbs and soak that shit up and maximize gains).

To recap: up the fat, finish cutting, slowly add back carbs at 50g a day over the course of a week, begin your cycle and continue to eat slightly above maintenance with plenty of complex carbs daily. If you want to minimize any fat gain and bloating on your cycle, try localizing your carbs around your workout and have pro/fat meals for the rest. Also, anabolic pump is a great supplement for running a balanced complex carb-based diet and not just for refeeds. Good luck!

Well look what the cat dragged in!!!!

[Damienm05]

Who. Are. You???

LoL... welcome back from the dead, again!!

Sorry for hijacking OP.

Man, it is good to hear from you or see you, or whatever this is considered! Looks like you've made some serious changes to your body composition for the better in my prolonged absence.

Once I got 1/2 way through my MBA, I just couldn't justify spending time on the boards anymore, especially considering I barely had time to lift/diet myself. Never fell off the program, just seriously limited my time as a productive member of the online bodybuilding community. It's great to have some time to peruse these boards again and chime in when I can. I'm also trying to break what's been like a two-year plateau, so I have a lot to learn, too -- I'll be tuned into your posts!

[Damienm05]

Thanks for your quick response and advice. Although I posted this yesterday I wrote it about two weeks ago and massively upped my fats. I am happy with how lean I am now I'm at about 10%. So in response to you do you recone I should scrap the idea of using test to help increase the intensity of my workouts whilst cutting and instead head more towards lean gaining? And if so lean gaining then would you maybe recommend carb cycle then, to increase glycogen uptake whilst staying reasonably lean? For example just something simple like 4days off carbs 3 days on. Maybe low carbs pre and post workout? Thanks again.

Yes, OP, sorry it's taken me so long to reply. It's not that test won't be a big help in cutting, it's just that you're not really getting the most out of your cycle if you're not able to eat a surplus of cals and really gain some serious lean mass. I know it's hard to just be patient and hold out, but just stick to your CKD and up the low intensity cardio if you're really in a hurry. When the time comes, you'll know you're ready.

As for these lean gains, I wouldn't over-think it. I'd just set your calories a little above maintenance and get plenty of good carbs in, especially pre/post WO. Carb cycling is great and all, but you'll be on test and really clanging and banging hard, I wouldn't worry about gaining fat with a balanced diet (as long as you keep the cals reasonable).

[MakeEveryRepCount]

Surprised no one chimed in on 21 being too young... How long have you been training? 175 lbs is pretty light for someone who is 6'1. I'd wait until you build more of a natural base. You'll get more out of your cycle.

[Damienm05]

Surprised no one chimed in on 21 being too young... How long have you been training? 175 lbs is pretty light for someone who is 6'1. I'd wait until you build more of a natural base. You'll get more out of your cycle.

You're right. That's the main issue here. I was kinda hoping someone else would try to get him sorted on the long term goals front. OP, you really should go to the AAS forum and post your proposed cycle, stats, and history and those guys will let you know RIGHT AWAY if it's even a good idea.

[jamesthompson91]

You're right. That's the main issue here. I was kinda hoping someone else would try to get him sorted on the long term goals front. OP, you really should go to the AAS forum and post your proposed cycle, stats, and history and those guys will let you know RIGHT AWAY if it's even a good idea.

Hey guys thanks again for all the info. Yes 21 does seem young. I have been training since I was 15. This year (college year) I managed to get up to 104kg or 230 lbs for my American brothers. Naturally needless to say It was an epic bulk and I ended up with a lot of fat although I ate clean. Shortly after I gained an injury. Wasn't able to train and alone when I was able to was edging towards the summer so I stripped fat. Anyway I have taken on board all the info and completely change my diet. I'm slowly shuttering up the carbs and kcals so not to cause metabolic damage. I'm now running test 350 at 0.75 twice a week alond side 30mg of Dbol( also been shuttled up). My new diet is following tell me what you think( this is week 1 diet kcal and complex carbs are been upped weekly in large amounts).

Week 1

Everyday:
Monday & Thursday: 0.75 test
Keep salt low to avoid bloat
2000mg vit c keep water bloat low
30mg Dbol everyday (beggin bring up to 50)
Water 5-6 ltrs everyday
Increase peanut butter to increase kcal (GNC)

Sunday-Thursday
Meal 1:
Wake up, Half a shake 30g & mulit vits,
complex carb 100g oats, 2 pieces of toast with peanut butter
5/6 eggwhites 2 hole egg
Probiotic yogurt with chopped fruit and usually some full fat cream
Green tea
Expresso coffe
Fat: 34g, carbs: 100g, protein: 80g

2nd meal
1-2 hours before workout
Usually 200g of chicken grilled on a Forman served with handful of greens, spinach/ brockerly
Complex carb 250g serving
20g peanut butter
Fat: 18g, carbs: 55g, protein: 78g

Pre workout,
5g of creatine, 5g taurine, 5g BCAA, Grenades pre workout
Mid way through workout half a protein shake
Post workout full protein shake 2scoops and another 5g of creatine, 5g taurine.
Dextrose 80g/ or / and piece of fruit
Fat: 8g, carbs: 78g, protein: 76g

3rd meal usually about 30 mins after workout
Another meat serving that will give me 50g proteins. No carbs usually again with brockerly or spinach. Try to avoid fats for this one as fat slows down protein uptake. (Will eventually add complex carb)
Fat: 14g, carbs: 0g, protein: 54g

4th meal
Usually relatively close to the second meal. Last meal some sort of red meat with some green vedge.
(Need to add some natural oils to up fat. I.e olive/sunflower)
Fat: 14g, carbs: 0g, protein: 54g

Pre bed time:
5g taurine, 5g BCAA
150g cottage cheese & peanut butter.
Fat: 11g, carbs: 20g, protein: 24g

Day Total: 3600kcal
Fat: 103g, carbs: 262g, protein: 385g

Friday
Binge meal!!!
Dbol every two hours to maximise glycogen uptake. 50-70 mg aday
Like meals Sunday- Thursday before but all meals with 250g of a complex carbs

Saturday
Dbol every two hours to maximise glycogen uptake. 50-70 mg aday
Like meals Sunday- Thursday before but all meals with 250g of a complex carbs

[jamesthompson91]

As I said all the meals now have complex carbs at at least 250g each as well as higher kcal. Using USN anabolic mass as my shakes. And massively upped my natural fats to get those sneaky kcals in... Ow and I'm taking Anastrozle 1mg a day to min any sides.