Please Help with deciding on a Macro Ratio!

**mattvdh** · 07-09-2013, 12:30 AM

So there's obviously a million different macro ratios out there to choose from, so which do you guys recommend and why? I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the general rule regarding protein for lifters is 1g-2g per lb of body weight, but what are your opinions on carbs and fats?
Thanks

**Gaspaco** · 07-09-2013, 12:43 AM

40/40/20 p/c/f

When I go high carbs there is no need to go crazy on protein for me.

**Back In Black** · 07-09-2013, 04:58 AM

It's all goal and individual specific. And your general rule is about as specific as your question.

**krugerr** · 07-09-2013, 05:02 AM

As above, You need to decide what your goal is. Cutting? Bulking? Maintaining? This will effect your split, and also your TDEE / Projected calories will also limit the split, we tend to say 1-2g protein per lean lb of weight, but there is an upper limit to the protein that is recommended should be in your diet.

So to answer your question, im going to ask you to post up all your stats please, and a TDEE, and your goal. Age, height, weight, BF, training experince.

-Krugerr

**baseline_9** · 07-09-2013, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Gaspaco

40/40/20 p/c/f

When I go high carbs there is no need to go crazy on protein for me.

This is a pretty useless way IMO of working out macros....

As a general rule it may be ok... But spending a few mins to do some number crunching will give someone a much better macro breakdown that is specific to them

**THE HOGG** · 07-09-2013, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

This is a pretty useless way IMO of working out macros....

As a general rule it may be ok... But spending a few mins to do some number crunching will give someone a much better macro breakdown that is specific to them

Can you be a little more specific and explain? 40/40/20 is what I have been using, if there is a better way I would love to hear about it.

**krugerr** · 07-09-2013, 10:04 AM

As said, 40/40/20 is great for just a simple basic diet. But you can play with it intelligently and drop carbs, increase fats etc, going for certain ratios to create desired results for your body.

**baseline_9** · 07-09-2013, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by THE HOGG

Can you be a little more specific and explain? 40/40/20 is what I have been using, if there is a better way I would love to hear about it.

A better way would be to base it on goals, stats and training

So protein at between 1 and 1.5g/lb of LBM, fats at between 0.3 and 0.5g/ lb of LBM and then carbs fill the rest of the calories....

Carbs being the macro with the biggest variability

**mattvdh** · 07-09-2013, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Back In Black

It's all goal and individual specific. And your general rule is about as specific as your question.

I hear what you're saying but *my goal isn't really the point of the question--it's more of a general question on your point of view.

If I want to cut down I would just create a caloric deficit, if I wanted to bulk up I would simply increase all 3, to maintain I would figure out my LBM caloric requirements and use that as my guideline. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the ratio, that's just caloric intake.

The point of this thread is to figure out what's a good starting point if the user were to cut, bulk or maintain? When I browse around the net on calorie counters such as myfitnesspal or something of that nature, they seem to have their own predetermined macro-ratios embedded in the programming. I find that the carb ratios tend to be the highest, and to me that isn't correct. I really don't need all that much carbs. My body thrives on protein and fats for the most part.

Has anyone ever come out with a 33/33/33 (rounded)? split evenly right down the middle? anyone see any problems with this ratio?

apparently the guys in the golden age basically lived off of protein and fats, with only a small amount of carbs. I'm starting to think that carbs are severely overrated as an energy source and stores as fat the easiest. Fats for instance have 9 calories per gram, so it's incredibly dense energy source and actually really helps your brain and body for many functions. Carbs on the other hand only really serve one purpose of short term energy bursts, if not burnt it stores. so shouldn't carbs be on the bottom of the ratio? I only see carbs as beneficial before a workout really. And if you eat enough protein your body will manufacture its own carb supply.

Are there any bodily benefits to carbs, more specifically on gaining muscle? I've read that carbs can 'puff' up the muscle a bit, but that's about it. A friend also said that carbs spike an insulin response, which is the 2nd highest anabolic to test. But then you see contradicting studies regarding how spikes in insulin are unhealthy. I've also heard that carb deprivation is bad news for the boner dept. A lot of unclear info on carbs out there!

**baseline_9** · 07-09-2013, 02:30 PM

Jeez.... Ur over thinking this... Read my post above.... It answers your question.... If u want a specific answer u need to be specific about the person the macros are for...

For example, I have one guy who has low test and he wants to cut... As a general rule I like to keep fats low (around the 0.3-0.35g/lb of LBM... ) however for this guy I have decided to run it at an average of 0.4 because I don't want to hinder test production further by going so low on fats.... So he has less carbs...

If someone was on gear they could cut fats MUCH lower than someone who wasn't because test production isn't an issue....

As far as protein variability, that's going to depend on goals.... 1-1.5g/lb of LBM.... On the lower end for gaining weight and on the higher end for loosing weight...

Carbs just make up the remainder of calories so this is dependent on overall target calories....

**mattvdh** · 07-09-2013, 02:58 PM

nah, I don't think I'm over thinking it at all. I just want to understand it more thoroughly and the reasoning behind it all. WHY do we need those amounts? Has it been proven that the body runs at its best on those figures, and how can these figures be used in such general terms, we all have unique metabolisms(?)

where did this figure of 1-2g's of protein, 0.25-0.3gs' of fat and 1.5-2.0g's of carbs originate from? This seems to have a predetermined ratio embedded in it.

I want to sort it out for my own knowledge but honestly I'm starting to get away from this math stuff and trying hone in on my instincts of what my body wants. For instance if my muscles are sore I need more protein, if I lack concentration I need fat, if I feel tired I'll eat carbs.

**baseline_9** · 07-09-2013, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by mattvdh

nah, I don't think I'm over thinking it at all. I just want to understand it more thoroughly and the reasoning behind it all. WHY do we need those amounts? Has it been proven that the body runs at its best on those figures, and how can these figures be used in such general terms, we all have unique metabolisms(?)

where did this figure of 1-2g's of protein, 0.25-0.3gs' of fat and 1.5-2.0g's of carbs originate from? This seems to have a predetermined ratio embedded in it.

I want to sort it out for my own knowledge but honestly I'm starting to get away from this math stuff and trying hone in on my instincts of what my body wants. For instance if my muscles are sore I need more protein, if I lack concentration I need fat, if I feel tired I'll eat carbs.

LMAO.... Good luck with that philosophy.... What ur trying to say is your just going to 'wing it'....

I'm sure there is plenty of research and data out there that supports most of the quoted figures in this thread.... If you want to educate yourself look up the following

Eric helms
Layne norton
Lyle McDonald
Alan Aragon

**mattvdh** · 07-09-2013, 04:29 PM

I don't see what you find humorous. how do you think the old timers trained before they had knowledge of all this stuff? they relied on their instincts and studied how certain foods made them feel and if it helped muscle production. Watch some Ric Drasin, Leroy Colbert and Bill Grant interviews and see how they were doing things back then before supplements or steroids . It's pretty interesting.

anyway I'm familiar with those authors/BB's, especially Aragon, but which books are you referring to? If you can't express it yourself easily and clearly then do you really understand how it all works?

**baseline_9** · 07-10-2013, 12:26 AM

If I ate on instinct I would be a fat ****er....

Understand how what all works?

Did I do the research.... No....

Does that mean I shouldn't follow advise from experts who have done the research..... No

Is there anything wrong with making macro recommendations based off of what experts have to say.... No, it is sure as hell a better way to go than going by instinct where your just guessing

I'm pretty sure if you look your going to find plenty of research that supports the figures above.... Watch the protein discussion between Alan Eric and Ian on YouTube... They probably cover protein requirements in there...

There is also a tone of info on lyles site

**Back In Black** · 07-10-2013, 12:50 AM

Matt, it's all very well having an opinion but this is the second thread where you are being borderline offensive to staff.

If you think that the guys from 40 years ago had better physiques and better conditioning then that's cool, please go ahead and follow their methods. The rest of us are going to move on with the times.

**THE HOGG** · 07-10-2013, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

A better way would be to base it on goals, stats and training

So protein at between 1 and 1.5g/lb of LBM, fats at between 0.3 and 0.5g/ lb of LBM and then carbs fill the rest of the calories....

Carbs being the macro with the biggest variability

Thank you.

**mattvdh** · 07-10-2013, 10:41 AM

Yeah I've seen those numbers dozens of times before, but the question is what is based on? Who came up with these figures, why 1g or protein per body weight and not 3,4,5,6,7g's or some other numbers for fat and carbs? I've searched all over and can't find the source. I think it's a pretty important to know the why. I'm going to do some more digging.

**mattvdh** · 07-15-2013, 09:24 AM

This throws the 40/40/20 out the window, or any fixed ratio for the matter. The only consistent is 0.8-1g of protein per lb, and 0.45g of fat per lb of approximate LBM, if you're overweight/obese, reduce them a bit. Also kind of inherently throws the keto diet out the window as well.
Carb Protein And Fat Percentages Are Completely Useless - YouTube