Gaining Diet - need some feedback

[tarmyg]

Hi guys,

My cutting cycle is going as planned so I have started to plan my clean build cycle that starts after that. This would be my first clean bulk cycle so what I have done is take my TDEE of 2749 and added about 200 kcal on top of this. I have read the sticky on the subject and there it is recommended to add 500 kcal and reduce as necessary. I prefer to go the other way in adding kcal if this is not enough.

I have put it all in this Google spreadsheet (I know it is one more click) and would very much appreciate some feedback.

Google Spreadsheet: Clean Build Diet - Food

There is a Test-E cycle that goes with this clean bulk that is detailed in the Anabolic section of the forum.

Thanks
~T

[austinite]

Is that you in the AVI?

500 calories over is a great start. You can always increase intake if need be.

I'm on the phone and cant see the spreadsheet for some reason.

[krugerr]

Hey Tarmy - That diet looks wrong, can you check it again? Its calculated at 287g protein, 18g carbs, 196g fat.

Did you mean to bulk on an almost zero carb diet?? I would consider upping your carbs to 150-200g as a minimum. Reducing the fat heavily too.

Can I ask what inspired this diet?

[baseline_9]

If your currently cutting just add a small amount of carbs and fat per week untill your gaining 1-2 lbs per month....

Add maybe 20g of carbs and a few grams of fat daily per week...

[tarmyg]

Is that you in the AVI?

I can't say it is :-)

[tarmyg]

I am a bit confused. I thought I could simply up calories and keep carbs low to make more of a clean "bulk". Have I misunderstood it?

Also, two different replies to my diet makes a bit hard to know what to do.

~T

[krugerr]

I am a bit confused. I thought I could simply up calories and keep carbs low to make more of a clean "bulk". Have I misunderstood it?

Also, two different replies to my diet makes a bit hard to know what to do.

~T

Base and I have said a similar thing in a round about way.
He's suggesting that you slowly transition from cutting to lean bulking by each week, increasing by 20g carbs and 2-3g fat (~100cals) until you are gaining approximately 2lbs a month.

I was just saying that your diet of >20g carbs and super high fat/protein is poorly designed.

[tarmyg]

I understand. So, I guess I must have misunderstood something. Why would my approach not work?

[krugerr]

I understand. So, I guess I must have misunderstood something. Why would my approach not work?

Its not that it wouldnt work, its just an unusual approach to bulking. How are you going to get enough energy to really push yourself through workouts? Also, I'm not sure if that much fat is healthy, its not all coming from good sources. This seems like a Keto approach for bulking, it isnt something I have heard of.

[tarmyg]

I spent last night searching for Keto Bulk diets and reading up on the Subject and ended up finding an article by my favourite guy Mark McManus who published an article on Bodybuilding.com (Bodybuilding.com - Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: The Best Ever Bodybuilding Diet?). I will be incorporating a Carb-up day once per week to start with and see how it goes. I will update my diet sheet to reflect this during the next few days and then ask for a review again.

Thanks
~T

[baseline_9]

I spent last night searching for Keto Bulk diets and reading up on the Subject and ended up finding an article by my favourite guy Mark McManus who published an article on Bodybuilding.com (Bodybuilding.com - Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: The Best Ever Bodybuilding Diet?). I will be incorporating a Carb-up day once per week to start with and see how it goes. I will update my diet sheet to reflect this during the next few days and then ask for a review again.

Thanks
~T

Why would you want to do a keto diet?

[tarmyg]

Why would you want to do a keto diet?

To do a clean as possible build cycle.

~T

[tarmyg]

Hi guys,

I have updated my spreadsheet and would very much appreciate some feedback. For anyone wondering why I am doing Keto 6 days/week and then a Carb-up day there seems to be significant evidence that this will produce a much cleaner build cycle.

So, without further ado here is my modified Clean Build Diet. I have put it all in this Google spreadsheet (I know it is one more click) Google Spreadsheet: Clean Build Diet - Food

TIA
~T

[krugerr]

Hey again Tarmy... Your carb up day is only 130g carbs, is that correct? Thats already considered a low carb goal. I would probably suggest dropping the fat on this day and eating 300g carbs at least.

[tarmyg]

Much appreciated krugerr. I have updated the carb-up day to reflect your feedback. How does it look now?

Thanks
~T

[krugerr]

Much appreciated krugerr. I have updated the carb-up day to reflect your feedback. How does it look now?

Thanks
~T

I'm on my phone currently, so I can't view it now. Ill take a look later!

[tarmyg]

Hi guys,

Decided to import the Google Docs here so perhaps it will generate some more feedback. Anyone have more input on this one or can I take it to the bank?

Thanks
~T

Clean Build Diet - Keto Days
Breakfast	Servings	Calories	Fat	Carbohydrate	Protein
Protein shake (grams)	50	196.5	3.4	3	41
Snack
Eggs	3	270	21.12	1.23	18.81
Bacon (grams)	50	266.5	20	0.75	19.5
Lunch
Eggs	2	180	14.08	0.82	12.54
Ground Beef (grams)	250	677.5	45	0	65
Peanut Butter (grams)	32	190	16.1248	6.2592	8.0288
Snack
Babybel Light	6	300	18	0	36
Dinner
Salmon (grams)	200	432	22	0	54
Broccoli (grams)	100	34	0.37	6.64	2.82
Snack
Babybel Original	6	420	36	0	30
Total		2966.5	196.0948	18.6992	287.6988	502.4928	grams
Percentage			39.02%	3.72%	57.25%
	CAL LEFT TO TDEE	-217.5
Clean Build Diet - Carb-Up Day
Breakfast	Servings	Calories	Fat	Carbohydrate	Protein
Protein shake (grams)	50	196.5	3.4	3	41
Snack
Yoghurt (grams)	250	255	7	40	7.75
Muesli (grams)	50	208	7.8	25.3	6.6
Protein Bar (grams)	80	230	6.5	20.4	29.2
Lunch
Turkey (grams)	500	520	8.3	21.05	85.35
Tortilla Bread (grams)	116	364.24	8.352	61.48	9.628
Banana (grams)	150	133.5	0.495	34.26	1.635
Snack
Protein Bar (grams)	80	230	6.5	20.4	29.2
Dinner
Salmon (grams)	200	432	22	0	54
Broccoli (grams)	300	102	1.11	19.92	8.46
Snack
Banana (grams)	150	133.5	0.495	34.26	1.635
Bread (grams)	57	145.92	3.135	22.8	5.13
Total		2950.66	64.687	259.87	230.838	555.395	grams
Percentage			11.65%	46.79%	41.56%
	CAL LEFT TO TDEE	-201.66

[baseline_9]

Here is my take.... Keto is ****in stupid... Your logic behind wanting to do it is not valid... You would be much better off eating a balanced diet with carbs

[tarmyg]

baseline,

What do you mean the logic is not valid? I am willing to admit I am experimenting here but it is complete based on other people who have done this before. Could you elaborate a bit more?

Appreciate the feedback!
~T

[tarmyg]

baseline,

I am pretty much following this: Best Bodybuilding Diet Plan Revealed!

Thanks
~T

[baseline_9]

Why don't you just stick to a basic plan that will work.... That has worked for decades..... There is no secret to any of this.... People always want to try and do something that is outside of the box because they think it will be the answer....

I just don't see why you would want to restrict yourself to a keto diet.... It simply is not optimal of your goals are to gain LBM....

If u want to keep your gains lean, make sure your tracking your macros accurately and logging calories burned during training and cardio.... Just know what your eating and you can make the gains as slow and lean as you like....

[tarmyg]

baseline,

I think there is something to be said for always looking at new science around diet and how it can apply to oneself. Looking at how far we have come in just the last 50 years in regards to how the body responds to different kinds of food and our understanding of this is quite remarkable IMHO. Now, that said, I have taken your advice to heart and created a diet based on the "Clean build" found in this Forum. It is just about 40% Protein 40% Carbs and 15% Fats. I would appreciate the feedback if you have the time.

Clean Build Diet

Thanks
~T

[baseline_9]

I honestly think your making a great move in getting away from keto...

Post ur stats (weight Bodyfat) and ur planned macros in one post and I will tell u what I think and what I would do...

Include planned energy output (calories burned via exercise per week)...

Include your training and cardio schedule

[tarmyg]

baseline,

STATS
Age: 41
Weight: 163.7lbs/74.3Kg
Height: 5ft 8in/173cm
BF: 11%

MACROS
Fat: 64.192g - 12.37%
Carbs: 225.61g - 43.47%
Protein: 229.203g - 44.16%
Total: 519.005g/3013.66Calories

WORKOUT
Weights
Monday: Shoulders/Traps
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Triceps/Biceps
Thursday: Back
Friday: Pecs
Saturday: Abs
Calories burned: 2100kcal

Cardio (20min Elliptical going at 165-170 BPM heart rate)
Monday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
Sunday
Calories burned: 1500kcal

TDEE: 2749

Thanks
~T

[baseline_9]

This is how I do things guys, it may be different to other but I find it a good place to start...

Weight - 163.7
BF - 11%
LBM - 145.6
Mtnce - 2185.... 15295 (weekly)
Training - 4 x 300 cals (I count upper body sessions as 300 cals), 1 x 400 cals (I count lower body sessions as 400 cals) ...... 1600 (weekly)
Cardio - 1500 cals (weekly)

Rough TDEE (weekly) - 18395

TDEE - 3500 (weekly) - 14895

14895 / 7 = 2127 (This is the daily adverage guide to loose 1 lb a week)



Protein - LBM x 1.5 = 218 (round down to 215)
Fats - LBM x 0.35 = 51 (round down to 50)
Carbs - remainder = 204 (round up to 205)

Weekly average macros - 215p 50f 205c

Daily plan based on your current training program...


M - 215p 50f 180c
T - 215p 50f 205c
W - 215p 50f 180c
T - 215p 50f 205c
F - 215p 50f 180c
S - 200p 50f 320c
S - 215p 50f 180c



When doing cardio go by calories burned rather than time.... So ur goal is 1500 a week over 5 sessions so 300 cals a session...

[baseline_9]

Lol just realised u are trying to grow... I'm a nob, I will re-do this l8r

[krugerr]

Lol just realised u are trying to grow... I'm a nob, I will re-do this l8r

Haha!! I'm sure Tarmy appreciates the input anyway

Tarmy - you're in good hands with Baseline. Please keep a log of pictures and training along with your diet progress? Be interested to follow it!

[tarmyg]

krugerr,

Will do. Still cutting for another 15 days (Assuming my values are what I want) and then onto Test cycle and lean bulking.

Thanks
~T