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Thread: Help with clean bulk

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    Help with clean bulk

    Hey fitfam was gonna start a clean bulk finish reading up some stuff, but need a little help from all you vets out there! I posted pic in member section and got great feedback but Ned help figuring out my tdee and stuff, should I use the Harris-Benedict formula or mifflin-st jeor, or katch as put in my bf% which roughly y'all said I was 7-8% was needing some help would greatly appreciate it

    Stats
    19
    150lbs
    6'1
    Bf%7-8?
    Ready to put on some muscle baby ?

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    What caloric intake and macro split have you been following over the last 6 weeks and with what results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black
    What caloric intake and macro split have you been following over the last 6 weeks and with what results?
    Well I never counted my macros, I just ate 6 meals a day really clean watched my sugar intake ate my good carbs and just went beast in the gym! I used the Harris-Benedict formula and my tdee came out at 2800 for moderate active 5 days intense but then I did very active because I workout 6 dys and it came out at 3100 which I thought was high? What do you think! And my split that I was thinking about going with is 45/30/25

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    Ok figured my tdee and going to start bulk with 3300 cals right now and work up
    3300/ 6 meals=550 cals each meal planning on doing a split of 45p/30c/25f as I can be a little carb sensitive

    3300x.45p=1,485/4 =370g
    3300x.30c=990/4=250g
    3300x.25f=825/9=90g note these are rounded up, but was wondering what you all might think about it? Also do I divide thee 370,250 and 90 by 6 for the meals

    The only part having trouble with is making the food schedule a I'm not that smart at it! Haha

    Stats are:
    Age 19
    150lbs
    6'1
    Bf-7-8%

    Workout days
    Monday-chest,tris, abs & cardio after 15 min
    Tuesday-legs, back
    Wednesday-biceps, shoulders, abs
    thursday-rest day cardio 15-20 or some basketball
    Friday start all over again

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod
    Ok figured my tdee and going to start bulk with 3300 cals right now and work up
    3300/ 6 meals=550 cals each meal planning on doing a split of 45p/30c/25f as I can be a little carb sensitive

    3300x.45p=1,485/4 =370g
    3300x.30c=990/4=250g
    3300x.25f=825/9=90g note these are rounded up, but was wondering what you all might think about it? Also do I divide thee 370,250 and 90 by 6 for the meals

    The only part having trouble with is making the food schedule a I'm not that smart at it! Haha

    Stats are:
    Age 19
    150lbs
    6'1
    Bf-7-8%

    Workout days
    Monday-chest,tris, abs & cardio after 15 min
    Tuesday-legs, back
    Wednesday-biceps, shoulders, abs
    thursday-rest day cardio 15-20 or some basketball
    Friday start all over again
    I would suggest all of that is waaaaay too high. I have over 40lbs on you and eat 3300 to maintain. Set up something like this

    Protein 210g
    Fats 60-70g
    Carbs 300g

    That is about 2600cals. Weigh yourself every week and adjust your carbs accordingly. Eat too much too soon and you will gain fat.

    Now, about this workout. Why only a 3 day split? How on earth do you have energy to train back after legs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black

    I would suggest all of that is waaaaay too high. I have over 40lbs on you and eat 3300 to maintain. Set up something like this

    Protein 210g
    Fats 60-70g
    Carbs 300g

    That is about 2600cals. Weigh yourself every week and adjust your carbs accordingly. Eat too much too soon and you will gain fat.

    Now, about this workout. Why only a 3 day split? How on earth do you have energy to train back after legs?
    I did the Harris-Benedict formula!
    66+{13.7x68kg}+{5x185.42cm} - {6.8x19age}
    Comes out to 1,795 rounded to 1800 x's very active 1.725 come out to 3100 tdee bulk gonna start out at 200 above tdee 3300 I did that right didn't I??

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    I figure you need about 2100 to maintain your current weight and bf. 3000+ seems really high. I'd listen to Back in Black on the 2600...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazensol
    I figure you need about 2100 to maintain your current weight and bf. 3000+ seems really high. I'd listen to Back in Black on the 2600...
    Sounds good so my tdee would be 2600? And I'm in the gym 6-7 days very active hitting the weights . At 2600 that means I won't have to eat back my calories burned in gym right the numbers he gave me is already calculated?

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    Your lean body mass is ~138 pounds. A good rule of thumb for calculating tdee is lbm x 15. The formulas you've used have been known to not be accurate. When I use them they have me eating way more calories than needed. It was not until I used the tdee x 15 as my starting point and subtracting my deficit from that (I was cutting) did I start to lose weight. The Harris-Benedict formula had me consuming ~3000 calories for cutting! I am very active (4 day split with weights and 15-30 miles of biking every day) and it had me way too high. I never would have lost any weight with that formula.

    If you go with the calories you posted you will no doubt grow but I think you will put on a lot of fat too. I assume by the title of your thread that your goal is to put on lbm with a minimum of fat...
    Last edited by Brazensol; 07-22-2013 at 05:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazensol
    Your lean body mass is ~138 pounds. A good rule of thumb for calculating tdee is lbm x 15. The formulas you've used have been known to not be accurate. When I use them they have me eating way more calories than needed. It was not until I used the tdee x 15 as my starting point and subtracting my deficit from that (I was cutting) did I start to lose weight. The Harris-Benedict formula had me consuming ~3000 calories for cutting! I am very active (4 day split with weights and 15-30 miles of biking every day) and it had me way too high. I never would have lost any weight with that formula.

    If you go with the calories you posted you will no doubt grow but I think you will put on a lot of fat too. I assume by the title of your thread that your goal is to put on lbm with a minimum of fat...
    Thanks bro for pointing that out! Good eye and helpful tip.. Also just quick question how'd you get 138 by a chance my (lbm) jw? So next time I can figure this out without 50 questions, but hey that's why I'm here to talk to some vets. Lol ?
    I did 138 x 15 and got 2,070 I'm gonna add 300 just to be on safe side 2300 and add up depending on the results I'm pretty carb sensitive so was thinking about 45p/30c/25f which will be 260p/175c/65f these are rounded alittle bit how's it look?
    Still confused on how you got 138 so 2300 cals is what I need to eat no matter what when I workout I don't have to eat back the burned cals?

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    LBM is simply weight x LBM (as a decimal percentage)... Not sure that that makes sense, so here's an example

    200lbs total weight
    10% BF
    90% LBM
    200 x 0.90 = 180 lbs LBM

    And LBM x 15 is a good starting place but it can't be considered a good TDEE.... Factor in your weight training and cardio on top of LBM x 15 and take that as your rough TDEE....

    For a slow gaining phase I'd advise you start at that figure and watch the scale for about 3 weeks and assess.... Look to gain an average of 0.25 lbs a week....
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    Define 'carb sensitive' to me please.
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    Bib your brain works just like mine lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseline_9
    Bib your brain works just like mine lol
    Lol great minds my friend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black
    Define 'carb sensitive' to me please.
    Easily to get bloated or gain weight

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    Quote Originally Posted by baseline_9
    LBM is simply weight x LBM (as a decimal percentage)... Not sure that that makes sense, so here's an example

    200lbs total weight
    10% BF
    90% LBM
    200 x 0.90 = 180 lbs LBM

    And LBM x 15 is a good starting place but it can't be considered a good TDEE.... Factor in your weight training and cardio on top of LBM x 15 and take that as your rough TDEE....

    For a slow gaining phase I'd advise you start at that figure and watch the scale for about 3 weeks and assess.... Look to gain an average of 0.25 lbs a week....
    So us 2300 to low to high? Did I do it wrong? I'm sorry its just I want this bad and I keep thinking I did it right lol I workout 6 days a week Sunday is off day cardio 4x week

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod

    Easily to get bloated or gain weight
    Don't you want to gain weight? Bloat is normally from a poor choice of carb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black

    I would suggest all of that is waaaaay too high. I have over 40lbs on you and eat 3300 to maintain. Set up something like this

    Protein 210g
    Fats 60-70g
    Carbs 300g

    That is about 2600cals. Weigh yourself every week and adjust your carbs accordingly. Eat too much too soon and you will gain fat.

    Now, about this workout. Why only a 3 day split? How on earth do you have energy to train back after legs?
    This is what I recommend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black

    This is what I recommend.
    Ok sounds good 2600 it is! The only question is thats the cals I stick to no matter what? I guess in trying to say us I don't need to eat back the burned cals from workout just stick to 2600 and check scale each week I assess right?
    What about none training days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod

    Ok sounds good 2600 it is! The only question is thats the cals I stick to no matter what? I guess in trying to say us I don't need to eat back the burned cals from workout just stick to 2600 and check scale each week I assess right?
    What about none training days.
    Eat the same each day for the first week. See what the scale says and it can be adjusted where necessary.

    This figure is above your TDEE but, as we have no idea how many calories you burn in your workout, it's a good start.

    Please have your workout critiqued in our lifting section too.
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    I'm a lot older than you and really shouldn't be giving advice...lol. I stayed at 150 no matter how much I ate. I also worked out 6 days/week. I took the advice someone gave me here, started training every other day(3-4x a week). A year and a half later, I'm 25 lbs heavier with a decrease of 1 1/2" in the waist. I'm just saying that maybe you can decrease days at the gym. And as BIB stated, back/legs together is not the best idea.
    Last edited by Rusty11; 07-23-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11
    I'm a lot older than you and really shouldn't be giving advice...lol. I stayed at 150 no matter how much I ate. I also worked out 6 days/week. I took the advice someone gave me here, started training every other day(3-4x a week). A year and a half later, I'm 25 lbs heavier with a decrease of 1 1/2" in the waist. I'm just saying that maybe you can decrease days at the gym. And as BIB stated, back/legs together is not the best idea.
    So go with the cals he gave me?

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    If I asked for advice and Baseline and Back in Black gave me advice, I would definitely follow it. They both know what they're talking about. No doubt about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod View Post
    Thanks bro for pointing that out! Good eye and helpful tip.. Also just quick question how'd you get 138 by a chance my (lbm) jw? So next time I can figure this out without 50 questions, but hey that's why I'm here to talk to some vets. Lol ?
    I did 138 x 15 and got 2,070 I'm gonna add 300 just to be on safe side 2300 and add up depending on the results I'm pretty carb sensitive so was thinking about 45p/30c/25f which will be 260p/175c/65f these are rounded alittle bit how's it look?
    Still confused on how you got 138 so 2300 cals is what I need to eat no matter what when I workout I don't have to eat back the burned cals?
    I simply took your weight (150 pounds) and subtracted 8% (your estimated bf%) and it comes out to 138. 150 - 8% (12) = 138. Multiply it by 15 and it gives you a starting point. Add in extra calories for bulking (or subtract calories to cut) and monitor weekly to see how your body responds. Adjust accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11
    If I asked for advice and Baseline and Back in Black gave me advice, I would definitely follow it. They both know what they're talking about. No doubt about that.
    Ok brotha thanks, I was in know way dissing their knowledge I'm gonna consume 2600 cals watch my figure and scale weight and seeing I'm gaining or marinating just want to get this right then head to lifting section and get that detailed in... Quick question though for me to maintain my tdee is 2025 isn't that pretty low for my age and bf any answers to that..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11 View Post
    If I asked for advice and Baseline and Back in Black gave me advice, I would definitely follow it. They both know what they're talking about. No doubt about that.
    Oops...should have included Brazensol in that list.

    I'll let the vets answer the tdee questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod View Post
    Ok brotha thanks, I was in know way dissing their knowledge I'm gonna consume 2600 cals watch my figure and scale weight and seeing I'm gaining or marinating just want to get this right then head to lifting section and get that detailed in... Quick question though for me to maintain my tdee is 2025 isn't that pretty low for my age and bf any answers to that..?
    Is that your actual TDEE (based on data you have collected... Ie. average weight loss/ gain in alignment with calorie intake and energy output) or is it a figure someone has given you....

    If someone has told you that your TDEE is 2025 then they don't know how to work out a TDEE....
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseline_9

    Is that your actual TDEE (based on data you have collected... Ie. average weight loss/ gain in alignment with calorie intake and energy output) or is it a figure someone has given you....

    If someone has told you that your TDEE is 2025 then they don't know how to work out a TDEE....
    No that's my bmr lol and I added 2600! For a starting point to bulk they helped me with it. Is it not right?

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    Can't be bothered to number crunch but 2600 looks about right.... But it's going to depend on training and cardio.... Good place to start tho.... Listen to bib
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    Beefy Bod -

    Ok. Looking back through what I wrote I never meant to call lbm x 15 = your tdee. Don't know why I did it since my whole point was that tdee calculators are notoriously wrong and that was why I used lbm x 15 (as recommended by several knowledgeable site members) as a good place to start figuring out daily caloric requirements. According to the tdee calc's, when I started my cutting efforts, my tdee would have been over 3,000 calories. There is NO WAY I would have lost fat with that many calories. Anyway, I apologize for any confusion I may have caused in an earlier post concerning your tdee...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazensol
    Beefy Bod -

    Ok. Looking back through what I wrote I never meant to call lbm x 15 = your tdee. Don't know why I did it since my whole point was that tdee calculators are notoriously wrong and that was why I used lbm x 15 (as recommended by several knowledgeable site members) as a good place to start figuring out daily caloric requirements. According to the tdee calc's, when I started my cutting efforts, my tdee would have been over 3,000 calories. There is NO WAY I would have lost fat with that many calories. Anyway, I apologize for any confusion I may have caused in an earlier post concerning your tdee...
    Hmm! Ok so it's pretty much just a trial and error situation. Well idk how many cals I burn all I know is I workout 6 days a week and it's intense abs every other day the reason in loosing weight is because I don't eat much so I'm eating around 1400 cals (which I know is terribly bad almost like I'm starving myself) and also I don't know how many cals I burn in the gym so pretty much could be lower than 1400 just depends I eat any where from 1400-1900 and that not calculating what I burn I try to eat every 3-4 hrs small meals really really clean, workouts feel like shit sometime I it's I'm afraid that I'll get fat again. It's all in my mind another is I wanna start measuring meals but I suck at the calculations it would be easy if someone gave me a meal plan! I bought scale today and having some trouble

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    I just use an excel spreadsheet for all my meals. It is kind of a pain looking everything up at first but after awhile you start to remember a lot of the stuff you eat so it gets easier. It would be nice if there was a site out there where you could just put in your macros/calories you wanted and it would spit out several different options to fill each one. Of course sometimes it would be nice if someone could go to the gym and do my workout for me! Or my cardio!

    Even if the tdee calc's were accurate you would probably still have to make allowances for YOUR metabolism since we are all individuals and vary at least a little and often quite a bit. Your tdee does take into account your daily activity level. When I first started to cut I used one of those calculators and I was eating way to much. I thought it was wonderful I could eat so much to lose weight except I didn't lose anything. I started to gain actually. I think GBrice is the first one who told me to use lbmx15 - deficit (how many calories you want to cut each day). If I recall I was around 205 pounds at the time @ 28% bf. Thus; 205 - 28% = 147.6 pounds. So, 147.6 was my lbm Now multiply it by 15 and you get ~2,215. I wanted to cut 400 to 450 calories so my daily total was between 1,765 and 1,815 calories. This has worked very well for me. I adjusted it once a week as my lbm changed.
    Last edited by Brazensol; 07-25-2013 at 10:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazensol
    I just use an excel spreadsheet for all my meals. It is kind of a pain looking everything up at first but after awhile you start to remember a lot of the stuff you eat so it gets easier. It would be nice if there was a site out there where you could just put in your macros/calories you wanted and it would spit out several different options to fill each one. Of course sometimes it would be nice if someone could go to the gym and do my workout for me! Or my cardio!

    Even if the tdee calc's were accurate you would probably still have to make allowances for YOUR metabolism since we are all individuals and vary at least a little and often quite a bit. Your tdee does take into account your daily activity level. When I first started to cut I used one of those calculators and I was eating way to much. I thought it was wonderful I could eat so much to lose weight except I didn't lose anything. I started to gain actually. I think GBrice is the first one who told me to use lbmx15 - deficit (how many calories you want to cut each day). If I recall I was around 205 pounds at the time @ 28% bf. Thus; 205 - 28% = 147.6 pounds. So, 147.6 was my lbm Now multiply it by 15 and you get ~2,215. I wanted to cut 400 to 450 calories so my daily total was between 1,765 and 1,815 calories. This has worked very well for me. I adjusted it once a week as my lbm changed.
    Well appreciate you being kind and understanding on this whole confusion, I know now that I'll have just trial and error my tdee and macros like you said everybody is different, I'm just trying to get a hang down of the food scale, do you have a spread sheet? And ok question if I don't have a label for chicken because package got thrown away and I measure out 3 oz chicken how do you know the protein and fats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod View Post
    Well appreciate you being kind and understanding on this whole confusion, I know now that I'll have just trial and error my tdee and macros like you said everybody is different, I'm just trying to get a hang down of the food scale, do you have a spread sheet? And ok question if I don't have a label for chicken because package got thrown away and I measure out 3 oz chicken how do you know the protein and fats?
    Use myfitnesspal
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseline_9

    Use myfitnesspal
    That's what I'm doing so before I part ways with all the question asking I have my calories and my macros or the macros what bib gave me when I plug them in measure the food out thats on the back nutrition label then plug into myfitnesspal and stick to the protein/carbs/fats for that day?

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    Am I missing the question?

    What's the question again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefy_bod View Post
    That's what I'm doing so before I part ways with all the question asking I have my calories and my macros or the macros what bib gave me when I plug them in measure the food out thats on the back nutrition label then plug into myfitnesspal and stick to the protein/carbs/fats for that day?
    That's a bit incoherent... lol. Just build an excel spreadsheet that works for you. It's pretty easy and straight forward to do.

  40. #40
    Brazensol's Avatar
    Brazensol is offline Productive Member~ Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    CalorieKing is also pretty good and it let's you measure everything out in either grams or ounces or seving size.

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