Austinite-induced battle between all you nutritionists.... (Nutrient Timing)

[austinite]

Nutrient timing revisited: Is there a post-exercise anabolic window?

Abstract
Nutrient timing is a popular nutritional strategy that involves the consumption of combinations of nutrients–primarily protein and carbohydrate–in and around an exercise session. Some have claimed that this approach can produce dramatic improvements in body composition. It has even been postulated that the timing of nutritional consumption may be more important than the absolute daily intake of nutrients. The post-exercise period is widely considered the most critical part of nutrient timing. Theoretically, consuming the proper ratio of nutrients during this time not only initiates the rebuilding of damaged muscle tissue and restoration of energy reserves, but it does so in a supercompensated fashion that enhances both body composition and exercise performance.

Several researchers have made reference to an anabolic “window of opportunity” whereby a limited time exists after training to optimize training-related muscular adaptations. However, the importance - and even the existence - of a post-exercise ‘window’ can vary according to a number of factors. Not only is nutrient timing research open to question in terms of applicability, but recent evidence has directly challenged the classical view of the relevance of post-exercise nutritional intake with respect to anabolism. Therefore, the purpose of this paper will be twofold: 1) to review the existing literature on the effects of nutrient timing with respect to post-exercise muscular adaptations, and; 2) to draw relevant conclusions that allow practical, evidence-based nutritional recommendations to be made for maximizing the anabolic response to exercise.

Source: http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-5.pdf

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[mockery]

one simply has to ask, "whats happened to the food i consumed pre work out" Its still breaking down, being digested and partitioned. The anabolic window is not as important then knowing how to use fats and insulin mimic release to shuttle nutrients into the body.

People who train fasted, and dont eat till hours after their work out have no issues with gaining LBM.

Muscle depletion and refueling muscle stores is something with merit, IMO anabolic window not so much.

[Docd187123]

I agree with Aragon and Schoenfield.

[Beethoven]

Thanks Austinite.

[austinite]

Come on! Fight fight fight!

[--->>405<<---]

Come on! Fight fight fight!

u should get some tomorrow.. IMO there is something to be said for nutrient timing such as UD2 and glycogen supercompensation..

[Back In Black]

u should get some tomorrow.. IMO there is something to be said for nutrient timing such as UD2 and glycogen supercompensation..

But these are specific dieting techniques where I, at least, take it for granted that it is all about nutrient timing.

The article findings are pretty much what I do now. Protein before and after training with absolute minimal carbs in either of those 'meals'. My meal/ workout timings and macro's are currently

7.00 40g protein, 10g fat

8.30 workout

10.00 40g protein

11.15, 14.15, 17.15, 20.5. 110g carbs, 40g pro, 12-15g fat

I haven't eaten carbs within an hour post workout for maybe 2 years now and Since dropping carbs at 7am I haven't noticed a difference in workout intensity, strength or progress. In fact, since dropping these carbs and not eating any until over an hour after I finish my workout I think there has been slight improvement in body composition. Yes, even with those evil late night carbs

Now, there are other potential factors taken into account by not eating carbs for most of the morning ((the cortisol/insulin connection) this is something else that can be up for debate) If I were to train later in the day then I my workout nutrition would be different and would involve more carbs.

So, for me, workout timing is as relevant as any nutrient timing. But, ultimately, I want it hit my macro's with as much consistency as I can. Too many people try to worry about the small things and not about the bigger picture.

[kronik420]

i usually eat within 30 minutes post workout..

but only because im sooo hungry lol, not because of any 'window'

[marcus300]

This debate can go on for ever, I was always told breakfast, pre and post workout nutrition are the most important meals of the day. I would say every meal is important but I am a big believer in these 3 meals being extremely important to my development. I'm not interested in any new study or some skinny guru pushing some fancy fuking stupid bodybuilding diet I am interested in one thing and that's how my body repairs itself and which conditions will give me the edge in repairing the tissue I've broken down.

I don't know one bodybuilder who doesn't follow the pre and post workout advice what's been around for decades, I should slightly edit that line because there are a few beach bodybuilders ( that's what I call them) who do these fancy diets and read every current study on nutrition and sprout bull shit everywhere they go, but one thing is for sure they wont build a big huge thick physique. Anyone who is feeding every 3 hours whether dieting or bulking who is carrying large amounts of tissue is taking in some kind of nutrition straight after their workout. Its been done for decades it works, its built some huge guys, it works for me and why not fuel your body with the essential nutrition as soon as possible after you have broken down your muscles to a point were they are screaming for this cascade of events to take place so they can grow. Get it in there as soon as possible!

I train that hard and intense my body is screaming for fuel after each workout, ive had many occasion were ive not been able to feed and fuel myself due to things happening or something happening at work and I can tell my body is missing something, I fuel pre and post workout because it takes a hell of a lot of food to maintain and build new tissue at my size and if you ask any pro he will tell you the same, I lock in nutrition as soon as possible because ive just broken down my body to were it needs this fuel. Call it bro science if you want call it anything you like but I call it knowing my own body and what it wants. It works its been working for decades so why change when its not broken.

I will have a shake consisting of pro/carbs and fruit post workout and that's as soon as I possibly can which is normally within 30 mins then about an hour and half I will eat a meal. Carbs are not my enemy my body adores them whether dieting or bulking and there isn't enough hours in the day to feed IMHO

[kelkel]

Entirely to many big words in that study for me. A cornucopia of them.

[jimmyinkedup]

I think this..for 99.99% of us it makes no difference. However telll that to a competitive bodybuilder prepping for a show and trying to peak he will likely laugh at you. I think nutrients can be manipulated to provide a specific look, at a specific time. ie: peaking for show. For overall muscle development i think it bears much less if no significance as long as caloric requirements and macros are met.

[gbrice75]

I think this..for 99.99% of us it makes no difference. However telll that to a competitive bodybuilder prepping for a show and trying to peak he will likely laugh at you. I think nutrients can be manipulated to provide a specific look, at a specific time. ie: peaking for show. For overall muscle development i think it bears much less if no significance as long as caloric requirements and macros are met.

A-fcking-men. I agree with Jimmy 100%, whole-heartedly, on every point made. Coudln't have said it better myself.

[tarmyg]

So the professional bodybuilder who frequents shows and is looking for every single advantage he can get will not change his ways, big whoop. The big picture here is that it simplifies diet advice for Average Joe who wants to gain lean muscle, lose weight, or simply become more healthy. This Average Joe will many times feel very intimidate by all the “required” steps he/she should take, like eating every three hours or spend money on expensive protein shakes with a specific amount of carbs in it. More science like this will make it easier to give people advice and will, hopefully, scare less people away from what could be a much more healthy lifestyle.


Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

[gbrice75]

So the professional bodybuilder who frequents shows and is looking for every single advantage he can get will not change his ways, big whoop. The big picture here is that it simplifies diet advice for Average Joe who wants to gain lean muscle, lose weight, or simply become more healthy. This Average Joe will many times feel very intimidate by all the “required” steps he/she should take, like eating every three hours or spend money on expensive protein shakes with a specific amount of carbs in it. More science like this will make it easier to give people advice and will, hopefully, scare less people away from what could be a much more healthy lifestyle.


Thanks
~T

I have to agree. I spent years trying to 'perfect' my diet with all these tiny little tweaks and changes (all the while sitting at roughly 15% or more), when eventually I came to find out none of it really made much of a difference, if any at all. Maybe when you're in the single digit BF range and looking to get leaner, they make all the difference (and in fact, I believe they do). For the 'average joe', all they do is send him/her down a road of unnecessary complexity (which ultimately leads to frustration and misery for the dieter) to an otherwise relatively easy process.

[GirlyGymRat]

This debate can go on for ever, I was always told breakfast, pre and post workout nutrition are the most important meals of the day. I would say every meal is important but I am a big believer in these 3 meals being extremely important to my development. I'm not interested in any new study or some skinny guru pushing some fancy fuking stupid bodybuilding diet I am interested in one thing and that's how my body repairs itself and which conditions will give me the edge in repairing the tissue I've broken down.

I don't know one bodybuilder who doesn't follow the pre and post workout advice what's been around for decades, I should slightly edit that line because there are a few beach bodybuilders ( that's what I call them) who do these fancy diets and read every current study on nutrition and sprout bull shit everywhere they go, but one thing is for sure they wont build a big huge thick physique. Anyone who is feeding every 3 hours whether dieting or bulking who is carrying large amounts of tissue is taking in some kind of nutrition straight after their workout. Its been done for decades it works, its built some huge guys, it works for me and why not fuel your body with the essential nutrition as soon as possible after you have broken down your muscles to a point were they are screaming for this cascade of events to take place so they can grow. Get it in there as soon as possible!

I train that hard and intense my body is screaming for fuel after each workout, ive had many occasion were ive not been able to feed and fuel myself due to things happening or something happening at work and I can tell my body is missing something, I fuel pre and post workout because it takes a hell of a lot of food to maintain and build new tissue at my size and if you ask any pro he will tell you the same, I lock in nutrition as soon as possible because ive just broken down my body to were it needs this fuel. Call it bro science if you want call it anything you like but I call it knowing my own body and what it wants. It works its been working for decades so why change when its not broken.

I will have a shake consisting of pro/carbs and fruit post workout and that's as soon as I possibly can which is normally within 30 mins then about an hour and half I will eat a meal. Carbs are not my enemy my body adores them whether dieting or bulking and there isn't enough hours in the day to feed IMHO

Why don't you tell us what you really think. Lol.

[bigsiv]

I would still like to see a bit more evidence if it can be obtained on the subject. Personally I feed straight after a workout, I wouldn't like the thought of missing out on a good opportunity to repair the muscle a little quicker.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I think this..for 99.99% of us it makes no difference. However telll that to a competitive bodybuilder prepping for a show and trying to peak he will likely laugh at you. I think nutrients can be manipulated to provide a specific look, at a specific time. ie: peaking for show. For overall muscle development i think it bears much less if no significance as long as caloric requirements and macros are met.

I agree with jimmy but I usually eat a pwo shake anyway just in case I'm wrong.

[theRZA]

The concept of intermittent fasting always intrigued me because of the alleged hormone sensitivity, and metabolic advantages. I'm aware that some of the studies martin berkhan used in his arguments were a little shakey, overall he had built a solid case.

I think that's really what were trying to achieve with an "anabolic window". It's not the macros, cals, etc, that's an entirely different beast. We want to manipulate our hormones to stimulate maximum growth. Utilizing and enhancing this window is completely variable and mileage will most certainly vary across individuals. If you were prone to insulin resistance, or a shitty metabolism, I think you might benefit from the anabolic window, or even intermittent fasting. If you were blessed with great genetics, all it becomes is an eternal headache of compulsion.