How would the body respond...

[Tron3219]

Idk if I should post here or the insulin forum, so I'm posting in both.

So I'm carb depleting and in a deficit. I know that when insulin is present lipolysis halts. But say I work out from 5am to 630a take insulin post workout with 10g simple sugars per iu and consume only trace carbs throughout the day. Overall carbs in a day is less then 75g. Thoughts?

[gbrice75]

Idk if I should post here or the insulin forum, so I'm posting in both.

So I'm carb depleting and in a deficit. I know that when insulin is present lipolysis halts. But say I work out from 5am to 630a take insulin post workout with 10g simple sugars per iu and consume only trace carbs throughout the day. Overall carbs in a day is less then 75g. Thoughts?

What are you going for here... reaping the benefits of an 'insulin surge' whilst otherwise maintaining a near-ketotis state?

[Tron3219]

What are you going for here... reaping the benefits of an 'insulin surge' whilst otherwise maintaining a near-ketotis state?

Pretty much, hoping to use the insulin to at very least maintain muscle mass. Theoretically (in my head lol) the carbs should go directly to my glycogen depleted muscles post workout. I guess it's also pertinent to say that for the following 5 hours after insulin shot only protein is consumed. The rest of the day protein/fat.

[gbrice75]

Pretty much, hoping to use the insulin to at very least maintain muscle mass. Theoretically (in my head lol) the carbs should go directly to my glycogen depleted muscles post workout. I guess it's also pertinent to say that for the following 5 hours after insulin shot only protein is consumed. The rest of the day protein/fat.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me, I'd be interested in hearing about your results if you don't mind keeping me posted.

I'm actually considering a keto diet again... I know the mistakes I've made in the past and think I can make it work this time. I am *really* wanting to 'correct' my issues (i.e. insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, etc) and I see no other way than to drop carbs completely for an extended period and force my body to dip into fat stores and become more efficient at converting/burning dietary fats.

You've been mainly protein/fat forever now, right?

[Tron3219]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me, I'd be interested in hearing about your results if you don't mind keeping me posted.

I'm actually considering a keto diet again... I know the mistakes I've made in the past and think I can make it work this time. I am *really* wanting to 'correct' my issues (i.e. insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, etc) and I see no other way than to drop carbs completely for an extended period and force my body to dip into fat stores and become more efficient at converting/burning dietary fats.

You've been mainly protein/fat forever now, right?

I just started it a few days ago, this is the route I'm using: Saturday ill have a carb up day using insulin to super compensate my glycogen stores after being depleted all week. On Sunday ill use low dosed insulin to drive my body into ketosis, getting BG levels in the 50-60mg/dl range. Come Monday morning ill be deep in ketosis (keto strip verified). Ill work out throughout the week and use insulin post workout and only taking about 8g carbs per iu, generally taking 4iu (relatively low dose) but just using it to keep glycogen muscles as full as possible. But enough insulin to keep me in ketosis. Even with my carbs at 75g a day I should stay in ketosis without it, but hoping the insulin keeps me deeper and more controlled. However, I think I may do away with the Saturday carb up, I think it may b over kill even tho it's only about 200g. Ill know if I am in a few weeks. Depending on progress.

I just came off a bulk where I ate high carbs, why? Just to see, I personally didn't see much difference in lbm growth, but did notice I climbed to 15-16% relatively quick. However my intensity in the gym was much better with carbs. I slowly weened myself off high level carbs with a goal to get to 8%. I THINK I'm approaching 10 now lol

[gbrice75]

I just started it a few days ago, this is the route I'm using: Saturday ill have a carb up day using insulin to super compensate my glycogen stores after being depleted all week. On Sunday ill use low dosed insulin to drive my body into ketosis, getting BG levels in the 50-60mg/dl range. Come Monday morning ill be deep in ketosis (keto strip verified). Ill work out throughout the week and use insulin post workout and only taking about 8g carbs per iu, generally taking 4iu (relatively low dose) but just using it to keep glycogen muscles as full as possible. But enough insulin to keep me in ketosis. Even with my carbs at 75g a day I should stay in ketosis without it, but hoping the insulin keeps me deeper and more controlled. However, I think I may do away with the Saturday carb up, I think it may b over kill even tho it's only about 200g. Ill know if I am in a few weeks. Depending on progress.

I just came off a bulk where I ate high carbs, why? Just to see, I personally didn't see much difference in lbm growth, but did notice I climbed to 15-16% relatively quick. However my intensity in the gym was much better with carbs. I slowly weened myself off high level carbs with a goal to get to 8%. I THINK I'm approaching 10 now lol

I've seen a general range of about 30-50g for maintaining ketosis, 75g might be a tad high but everybody's different, plus with the added benefit of the slin you have nothing to worry about.

So, how long did you run the 200g carb diet? Also, how were you consuming those carbs - throughout the day, or localized around your workout for the most part? Just curious.

What do you think would be an optimal time to jump into a keto diet (CKD basically)? I have a 2 week deload planned (started today) which might be ideal considering that awful transition period to a primarily fat burning metabolism... the low intensity might be the perfect pairing. Thoughts?

[gbrice75]

Fuk, we're talking in 2 different threads simultaneously and I just realized I posted this in yours, not mine. Don't mean to hijack, we can take this convo to my thread if you'd like.

[Tron3219]

I've seen a general range of about 30-50g for maintaining ketosis, 75g might be a tad high but everybody's different, plus with the added benefit of the slin you have nothing to worry about.

So, how long did you run the 200g carb diet? Also, how were you consuming those carbs - throughout the day, or localized around your workout for the most part? Just curious.

What do you think would be an optimal time to jump into a keto diet (CKD basically)? I have a 2 week deload planned (started today) which might be ideal considering that awful transition period to a primarily fat burning metabolism... the low intensity might be the perfect pairing. Thoughts?

No worries, it fit in both threads lol

My bulk diet with carbs was more like 400g carbs. I was running a good dose of gear and eating 1000cal above tdee. (4500 cal). I ran that for about 10weeka and got to 248 and about 15%.

As far as when to go keto, I understand ur reasoning, but I think I'd use the deload to ween myself off the carbs then start an actual keto on ur intensity cycle. Reason being, one, ur already deloading so ur not pushing hard on purpose, then add in the lethargy. Hell might as well stay home lol but hit it on ur loading phase, just slam double dose preworkout and get after it. The increased work load will help deplete ur BG levels faster as well, getting u into ketosis faster. No carbs + intense workouts = faster utilization of glucose.

[gbrice75]

No worries, it fit in both threads lol

My bulk diet with carbs was more like 400g carbs. I was running a good dose of gear and eating 1000cal above tdee. (4500 cal). I ran that for about 10weeka and got to 248 and about 15%.

400g of carbs just sounds.... fun. lol

As far as when to go keto, I understand ur reasoning, but I think I'd use the deload to ween myself off the carbs then start an actual keto on ur intensity cycle. Reason being, one, ur already deloading so ur not pushing hard on purpose, then add in the lethargy. Hell might as well stay home lol but hit it on ur loading phase, just slam double dose preworkout and get after it. The increased work load will help deplete ur BG levels faster as well, getting u into ketosis faster. No carbs + intense workouts = faster utilization of glucose.

Good point about being able to deplete much faster w/ a real workout... my deload workouts won't even scratch the surface (190lb squat today lol) so yea, it's probably a waste of time. Funny you mention weaning off though; that's exactly what I've already started today, took roughly 50% of my usual carb intake PWO. Glad we're on the same page, and thx for the feedback.

[Tron3219]

400g of carbs just sounds.... fun. lol

Good point about being able to deplete much faster w/ a real workout... my deload workouts won't even scratch the surface (190lb squat today lol) so yea, it's probably a waste of time. Funny you mention weaning off though; that's exactly what I've already started today, took roughly 50% of my usual carb intake PWO. Glad we're on the same page, and thx for the feedback.

Fun? Not when it's like 8 cups of rice a day lol chicken and rice was ALL I ate for 10 weeks lol

What's ur cal consumption vs tdee like while on deload? R u planning on using keto to drop cut?

[gbrice75]

Fun? Not when it's like 8 cups of rice a day lol chicken and rice was ALL I ate for 10 weeks lol

Ugh, lol. Yea, nvm.

What's ur cal consumption vs tdee like while on deload? R u planning on using keto to drop cut?

Calories are staying the same. They're actually already low, once you cut out all the bullshit I've been eating unplanned.

I'm looking to keto more as a tool to help correct some of my long term issues, the underlying causes as to why I store fat so easily and have such a fuk of a time building any decent muscle.

[Tron3219]

Gotcha, yeah, I can personally attest that keto, even with surplus will help control body fat more efficiently. I'd load up on the almonds and coconut oil for fats in ur keto diet for the insulin resistance