FMI ? Does Protein convert to Glucose ?

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I have not read in this section .

But in the section where the 19 year old girl was bulking on a high fat and low carb and low protein intake (Oh her theory didn't work) she stated that Protein was converted to glucose ? I do not have enough knowledge to know if this is true or not ? Would one of you smart ppl out there please clear this up for me as I lost several lbs on high protein , low carb and moderate fat nutrition intake ?

[Docd187123]

I have not read in this section .

But in the section where the 19 year old girl was bulking on a high fat and low carb and low protein intake (Oh her theory didn't work) she stated that Protein was converted to glucose ? I do not have enough knowledge to know if this is true or not ? Would one of you smart ppl out there please clear this up for me as I lost several lbs on high protein , low carb and moderate fat nutrition intake ?

Protein can convert to glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis but in very specific conditions such as in the absence of carbs.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Protein can convert to glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis but in very specific conditions such as in the absence of carbs.

So at 60% protein 25% Fats & 15% Cabs which is tuff to keeps carbs that low but was my target .

I take from what you stated that Protein should not turn to Glucose when eating 6 to 7 x's a day and carbs am and small mid level carbs post and pre w/o ?

[hellomycognomen]

There are many players in gluconeogenesis (hormones, feedback loops, etc).

Biggest reason why this exist is to maintain homeostasis in blood glucose level and partly to provide energy to the brain.

I'm not sure why you are concerned protein will turn into glucose.

[hellomycognomen]

I lost several lbs on high protein, low carb and moderate fat nutrition intake ?

Were those lbs lost, body fat or muscle mass?

Could also have been caused by low caloric intake compared to your expenditure?

[Docd187123]

So at 60% protein 25% Fats & 15% Cabs which is tuff to keeps carbs that low but was my target .

I take from what you stated that Protein should not turn to Glucose when eating 6 to 7 x's a day and carbs am and small mid level carbs post and pre w/o ?

The number of your meals has little if anything to do with it. It's the total amounts. In your case it would depend on how many grams of carbs 15% is.

Here's a pretty good article about it

Basic Nutrient Metabolism | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

One final thing is that at 60% of total calories coming from PRO you really don't need to worry about gluconeogenesis as even if it does happen it will happen from dietary protein not muscle or organ protein stores.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

There are many players in gluconeogenesis (hormones, feedback loops, etc).

Biggest reason why this exist is to maintain homeostasis in blood glucose level and partly to provide energy to the brain.

I'm not sure why you are concerned protein will turn into glucose.

I am Type II Diabetic, started TRT 10/2012 and saw large fat losse from 266 lbs in 4 mths down to 219 lbs back up to mid 230 I lost another 2 inches in my waist so just from the way things look and feel I would say some muscle lose and major fat lose ? I continue to increase protein intake as a target and restrict Carbs and they just sneak in there and healthy fat rounds things off ! At 54 & 235 + or - a few lbs and a 34 inch waist + above average mass I think my Split is pretty close ? I do not weight my food I read labels and stay away from canned food and go fresh . frozen, or home grown Target most Calories from Protein and strict on target carbs and healthy fats .

So seems that much of a weight change and if anything a little increase At the same time size increase in a good way and loosing fat in face, belly, waist, and getting more cut the harder I train .

On TRT and went to a VA Dr, and for mth he advised me to cut Dose of Test in Half 9feel bad again I am going back on the 7th and expect to be low end of normal serum level and I am doing this to see if I am figuring out my body !

After getting Testosterone Serum level I plan to go back to optiminal TRT Dose which is a little high but I am on high dose of opiates and normal Proticall for TRT is:

90 mg of Cypionate 2 x's a week = 720 Test level
.25 Generic Adex after each injection = gives me an E2 of 28
HCG rasises Test level to 868 taking 150 iu's every 3rd day and really makes me Feel mentally great.

So after 14 mths with a clueless Dr. and he scripts meds and I read my own BW and donate regularly I am feeling the best in 25 years @ 54

Just Protein converted to Glucose concerned me due to type II diabeties A1C is 5 though and due to diet and exercise = continue doing what I am doing and TRT has caused Type II Diabeties to reverse to metbolic syndrom

Thoughts and comments welcome ? I am a sponge ? Trying to learn and grasp all i can as far as nutrition and TRT and Bw goes and I gain a little more knowledge every day

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

The number of your meals has little if anything to do with it. It's the total amounts. In your case it would depend on how many grams of carbs 15% is.

Here's a pretty good article about it

Basic Nutrient Metabolism | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

One final thing is that at 60% of total calories coming from PRO you really don't need to worry about gluconeogenesis as even if it does happen it will happen from dietary protein not muscle or organ protein stores.

Thank you ! I am not sure if this is proper way to set Macros or not ? But I staart with 1.5 grams of protein per lb of total body weight and adjust from there So target 300 grams (as opposed to 360 because many ppl recommend a gram of protein per lb of total body weight ) of Protein @ 4 calories pre gram and 75 grams of fat @ 9 Calories per gram and this may actually be less and more protein ? 45 grams of Carbs @ 4 calories per gram so this is tuff probably a little higher since I carb in the am and no carbs after 12:00 except small amount pre 1 hour pre w/o amd then small amount post w/o so not way off on carbs IMHO ?

[hellomycognomen]

I am Type II Diabetic, started TRT 10/2012 and saw large fat losse from 266 lbs in 4 mths down to 219 lbs back up to mid 230 I lost another 2 inches in my waist so just from the way things look and feel I would say some muscle lose and major fat lose ? I continue to increase protein intake as a target and restrict Carbs and they just sneak in there and healthy fat rounds things off ! At 54 & 235 + or - a few lbs and a 34 inch waist + above average mass I think my Split is pretty close ? I do not weight my food I read labels and stay away from canned food and go fresh . frozen, or home grown Target most Calories from Protein and strict on target carbs and healthy fats .

So seems that much of a weight change and if anything a little increase At the same time size increase in a good way and loosing fat in face, belly, waist, and getting more cut the harder I train .

On TRT and went to a VA Dr, and for mth he advised me to cut Dose of Test in Half 9feel bad again I am going back on the 7th and expect to be low end of normal serum level and I am doing this to see if I am figuring out my body !

After getting Testosterone Serum level I plan to go back to optiminal TRT Dose which is a little high but I am on high dose of opiates and normal Proticall for TRT is:

90 mg of Cypionate 2 x's a week = 720 Test level
.25 Generic Adex after each injection = gives me an E2 of 28
HCG rasises Test level to 868 taking 150 iu's every 3rd day and really makes me Feel mentally great.

So after 14 mths with a clueless Dr. and he scripts meds and I read my own BW and donate regularly I am feeling the best in 25 years @ 54

Just Protein converted to Glucose concerned me due to type II diabeties A1C is 5 though and due to diet and exercise = continue doing what I am doing and TRT has caused Type II Diabeties to reverse to metbolic syndrom

Thoughts and comments welcome ? I am a sponge ? Trying to learn and grasp all i can as far as nutrition and TRT and Bw goes and I gain a little more knowledge every day

IMO Its always best to focus on bf% over weight until you hit your desired %.

Docd. gave me some good info on a different thread about how proteins can be just as insulinogenic as carbohydrates.

However I dont think the conversion (protein-glucose) if any would be of concern if you are already monitoring your blood levels.

I would however defer to Docd.

-Cheers

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

The number of your meals has little if anything to do with it. It's the total amounts. In your case it would depend on how many grams of carbs 15% is.

Here's a pretty good article about it

Basic Nutrient Metabolism | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

One final thing is that at 60% of total calories coming from PRO you really don't need to worry about gluconeogenesis as even if it does happen it will happen from dietary protein not muscle or organ protein stores.

Hey Doc the Tag you gave just wet my appitite ? What is the name of the book ? ( Amazon or eBay for best price ?Does the book consider other health conditions as Type II Diabeties ? My AC1 is 5 now so not a real concern but still have to execise and keep diet in check . Thank you sooo much !

Rather analitic but good info . ! ! ! !

Myself being on TRT and actually wanting to give me a Christmas persent of six pac abs at 54 ? If I read this short read correctly I could target a pure Protein and fat diet with maybe 20 grams of Carbs a day and I would cut and lean out like no tomorrow ? Just would the fat give me enough energy to train daily ? I find even now that with restricted Carbs and energy drain ?

If I rode it out and depleted carbs to a minium would the Fat I eat and what is left in my body eventually give me all the energy I need to train with intensity ?

Please share the name of that book ? I am 54 and only been learning and attempting to eat and train healthy since Oct of 2012 and I am pleased with the results compared to other average 54 year olds but . . . .I don't want to compare to other 54 year olds I want to compare to all men and be one healthy as possible and yet lean as possible ? Please share your thoughts ~ !

[slfmade]

Hey Doc the Tag you gave just wet my appitite ? What is the name of the book ? ( Amazon or eBay for best price ?Does the book consider other health conditions as Type II Diabeties ? My AC1 is 5 now so not a real concern but still have to execise and keep diet in check . Thank you sooo much !

Rather analitic but good info . ! ! ! !

Myself being on TRT and actually wanting to give me a Christmas persent of six pac abs at 54 ? If I read this short read correctly I could target a pure Protein and fat diet with maybe 20 grams of Carbs a day and I would cut and lean out like no tomorrow ? Just would the fat give me enough energy to train daily ? I find even now that with restricted Carbs and energy drain ?

If I rode it out and depleted carbs to a minium would the Fat I eat and what is left in my body eventually give me all the energy I need to train with intensity ?

Please share the name of that book ? I am 54 and only been learning and attempting to eat and train healthy since Oct of 2012 and I am pleased with the results compared to other average 54 year olds but . . . .I don't want to compare to other 54 year olds I want to compare to all men and be one healthy as possible and yet lean as possible ? Please share your thoughts ~ !

The book is "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook" by Lyle McDonald

[hellomycognomen]

delete

[slfmade]

I'd take down that link and PM it to him.

[Docd187123]

If you're diabetic id suggest looking at possibly going to a ketogenic diet (which by your macros it seems like you already are) and/or an intermittent fasting diet. My sister is diabetic and after some research I suggested she try it out. She's having some pretty good success with it and is noticing she's needing less insulin. There are some things to watch out for obviously but first you should decide what you want to do.

I'm not too sure how gluconeogenesis can affect diabetics but I cannot imagine it having any more of an affect than carbs would and as a diabetic you know how to deal wih carbs. Honestly in the interest of minimizing or stopping GNG while low carbing it like you are doing, the best way is to not take too much protein. Taking too much protein will only increase the chance of it happening bc your carbs are low so not enough glucose from those and if your fats are too low you won't have enough ketones to fuel your body which leaves protein to be converted to glucose. Most keto diets, again basically what you're doing by having <50g of carbs, will typically be around ~60-65% of total calories coming from dietary fat, around 30-35% of total calories coming from protein, and he rest is trace carbs from veggies and possibly fruits.

Give me your current stats and I'll help set something up from which you can tweak. Basically get your TDEE. Allocate ~1-1.2g/lb of BW to protein (or base it of lean mass if you have BF%), and the rest of your calories will be coming from dietary fat but leave room for some trace carbs (<200 calories worth). Another thing to bunk about is timely structured calorie/carb refeeds. Bc you're going low carb this will deplete glycogen stores eventually, can kill your intensity in the gym, and down regulate certain hormones. A refeed will refill glycogen, help wih intensity, and up regulate things like leptin, ghrelin, T3/T4, etc.


Hellomycognomen: I agree with you. If he's monitoring serum glucose levels for diabetes anyway it shouldn't be a concern. At most maybe take a few extra readings just to be safe since I'm no diabetes expert.

The only issue I see with protein being converted to glucose is hat it's an inefficient pathway and there will be energy loss. GNG can be derived from glycerol (which comes from fat oxidation but is 10% efficient meaning only 10% of the oxidized fat will be converted), from certain amino acids (the protein aspect), and lactate and pyruvate (comes from carbohydrate metabolism). Lactate and pyruvate are the most efficient and preferred pathways. In the absence of carbs, you'll rely on either GNG from fat and protein OR ketones and this is why you want enough dietary fat. Ketones can provide all the energy needed except for certain tissues like the brain, CNS, and some others.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

If you're diabetic id suggest looking at possibly going to a ketogenic diet (which by your macros it seems like you already are) and/or an intermittent fasting diet. My sister is diabetic and after some research I suggested she try it out. She's having some pretty good success with it and is noticing she's needing less insulin. There are some things to watch out for obviously but first you should decide what you want to do.

I'm not too sure how gluconeogenesis can affect diabetics but I cannot imagine it having any more of an affect than carbs would and as a diabetic you know how to deal wih carbs. Honestly in the interest of minimizing or stopping GNG while low carbing it like you are doing, the best way is to not take too much protein. Taking too much protein will only increase the chance of it happening bc your carbs are low so not enough glucose from those and if your fats are too low you won't have enough ketones to fuel your body which leaves protein to be converted to glucose. Most keto diets, again basically what you're doing by having <50g of carbs, will typically be around ~60-65% of total calories coming from dietary fat, around 30-35% of total calories coming from protein, and he rest is trace carbs from veggies and possibly fruits.

Give me your current stats and I'll help set something up from which you can tweak. Basically get your TDEE. Allocate ~1-1.2g/lb of BW to protein (or base it of lean mass if you have BF%), and the rest of your calories will be coming from dietary fat but leave room for some trace carbs (<200 calories worth). Another thing to bunk about is timely structured calorie/carb refeeds. Bc you're going low carb this will deplete glycogen stores eventually, can kill your intensity in the gym, and down regulate certain hormones. A refeed will refill glycogen, help wih intensity, and up regulate things like leptin, ghrelin, T3/T4, etc.


Hellomycognomen: I agree with you. If he's monitoring serum glucose levels for diabetes anyway it shouldn't be a concern. At most maybe take a few extra readings just to be safe since I'm no diabetes expert.

The only issue I see with protein being converted to glucose is hat it's an inefficient pathway and there will be energy loss. GNG can be derived from glycerol (which comes from fat oxidation but is 10% efficient meaning only 10% of the oxidized fat will be converted), from certain amino acids (the protein aspect), and lactate and pyruvate (comes from carbohydrate metabolism). Lactate and pyruvate are the most efficient and preferred pathways. In the absence of carbs, you'll rely on either GNG from fat and protein OR ketones and this is why you want enough dietary fat. Ketones can provide all the energy needed except for certain tissues like the brain, CNS, and some others.

I am possibly not stating it plainly do to my rambeling but I stated above :

300 Grams of Protein possibly a little more I do not weight my food ... just no canned food and try to eat fresh, frozen or home grown

75 grams of fat probably less and more protein

35 grams of Carbs and tuff to stay this low I do read labels and watch very close what I ingest but I may ingest a small anout more carbs ?

I hope this is what you were looking for and when I say target this is not weighting and I am trusting labels on packaged food and I even stear clear of sweet fruit due to more carbs ?

WITH THIS SPLIT AS OF 7 MTHS AGO i SEEM TO LOOSE ABOUT 3 TO 5 LBS OF FAT A MTH AND ACTUALLY GAIN WEIGHT AND LOOSE BELLY FAT, LOOSE IN MY FACE AND . . .lol ONLY HAVE 1 CHIN NOW ? NOT DRASTIC CHANGE BUT A SLOW AND STEADY CHANGE ! iN A DESIRED WAY @ BUT ANYTHING AN BE IMPROVED ON


BEEN IN THE GYM, EATING HEALTHY & ON TRT SINCE OCT , 2012. BALANCED
To be clear I am in Metobolic syndrom now and was Type II Diabetic ; never been shut down or type I Diabetic
6 FT
235 LBS
54 YEARS AND MY AVATAR IS 2 MTHS OLD
DR SAYS I AM OBESE AND A 34 IN WAIST ( lol NOT WHERE MY PANTS FIT ACTUALLY MY WAIST ) SO I AM MODERATLY PLEASED AND SEKING IMPROVEMENT !

MY ISSUE IS BELLY FAT NO MORE REAL BELLY BUT CAN'T LOOSE THAT 1/4 IN. IN FAT BETWEEN OBLIQUES . AND AS I STATED STILL LACKING IN INTENSITY IN THE GYM SOOO SEEMS LIKE A CATCH 22 ?

[Docd187123]

First of all congratulations on you're current progress, you look pretty darn good in your avi if you ask me! Secondly, if I may assume anything from your choice of usernames, I truly thank you for your service to others .

The most EFFICIENT way to get your desired body physique is to be counting calories/macros. It can be done without but that's not usually the case bc of certain hunger hormones and whatnot which may cause ppl to over/under eat. For this I recommend myfitnesspal app on a smartphone like iPhone or android (or computer). It's a great app, easy to use, and is customizable. It will track and record everything you plug in making it easier on you.

The stomach and hips are considered trouble spots usually for fat loss. Bc of poorer blood flow and other factors it's usually the place where fat loss labs behind and the only real way to counter it is by adding a few tricks in your arsenal and cutting down BF further. Things like fasted cardio MAY prove to be useful in this situation, HIIT, refeeds so you can go low calorie and continue fat loss, etc.

With your diet I'd have to suggest slightly dropping some of your protein intake and upping either the fats or the carbs. You'll have a BMR of around 2100 calories and if moderately active a TDEE of around 2900 cals. A 10-15% calorie deficit puts you at 2500-2600 calories.
PRO: 1.2g/lb BW = ~275g PRO X 4cals/gram = 1100 calories
FAT: TDEE - cals from pro = 2600 - 1100 = 1500 cals / 9cals/gram = ~150g of fat

This leaves room for around 20-25g of carbs per day. You'll need to tweak this and see if it causes fat loss or not. You might need a bit more or less cals depending on your metabolism, activity, etc. If you need to add cals add more fat mainly and a bit of protein. If you need to take out cals, remove fats mainly and a bit of protein after that. You'll need a refeed every so often depending on your leanness. That means same protein intake, less fats (maybe 75g or so), and the rest comes from carbs. This refeed will replenish glycogen and up regulate your 'hunger and satiety' hormones.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Please forgive me for lack of knowledge of buzz words ? But what does refeed mean ? I hate when ppl want to be spoon fed but I am trying to tweak what is a rough nutrition plan that has been working . . . except in the last fat deposits in as you say, my abs and not as much my . . . lol side handles are not noticeable to others but I see everything and got to loose that 1/4 in layer on my belly ! For me ! Others say you look great for 54 . .. .I hate that for 54 part ! .. lol

Oh part of my disability is a hip implant and only elipitical bike . . . so boring ! Also leg work is very light weight and high reps and for ab work I do not add weights just do tons of reps . . .set gaol and do to failiur ?

THANK YOU FOR TEMPOERED PACIENTS !

[Docd187123]

You've got the willingness to learn which should help you tremendously here. I didn't think you're trying to be spoon fed brother.

A refeed is a way of reversing the physiological adaptations your body undergoes during times of dieting and caloric restriction. Things like leptin and ghrelin down regulate, your thyroid will produce less hormones, glycogen stores may be depleted, etc. It will basically undo these process, temporarily though, and allow you to keep progressing.

A great article on what happens inside your body during dieting:

Calorie Partitioning: Part 2 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Those last bit of love handles are usually the last to go. Just keep cutting fat and maintaining your muscle and you'll get there no doubt.

Let me preface this with a warning: don't ignore any signs of injury or worsening of an existing injury to follow this advice.

I personally think you should be able to keep doing leg work and what not wih pretty good weights. Don't let the injury defeat you mentally. What I mean is so many ppl think an old injury is a limiting factor when in reality it's the willingness to test it. I would try to slowly start adding weight and dropping some reps (raise intensity) and work your legs and abs like everything else. Don't jump up 50lbs on squats in 2 wks but maybe every week or other week try adding a few pounds. It adds up quick though. High reps will work anaerobic endurance more than anything else. It's a less efficient way to build muscle and in fact can hinder muscle growth by never using more efficient methods. Just ferment this doesn't mean to ignore any symptoms or signs. Just keep an eye on everything and progress slowly with your weight increases.