Am I on the right track??

**kyawookie** · 08-19-2014, 10:31 PM

Hey guy's my stats are 5'10, 180 pounds, around 13-14% body fat age 25. I have been lifting for about 6 years now. My cycle is 500mg test e 900mg deca I will run this for about 16 weeks (Untill I run out of deca) and then cruise 250mg test e until it's time to blast again. .5mg pharm adex EOD. pharm caber and accutane on stand by just in case. I also have pharm nolva/colmid just in case I need to stop for any reason. My training split will be upper body power day tuesday, lower body power day wednesday. Rest day thursday. Bodybuilding back and shoulders friday, Bodybuilding lower body day saturday and bodybuilding chest and arms sunday. rest day monday and then repeat. I do parachute sprints in sand On training days I don't do legs. Now to the hard part (for me at least) the diet. I am doing a 40/40/20 split and I'm doing 2 times my body weight in protein. My goal is to lean bulk. I am worried about putting on fat. Please don't flame me to bad this is my first post!

Meal 1. 1 serving size natural peanut butter. 2 serving size skim milk. 1 large banana. 2 scoops whey protein. 1 serving size fish oil. 1 serving size CQ10. Totals. 66g carbs 72.5g protein 23g fat. This is my meal when I wake up and is also my pre workout meal.

Meal 2. Post workout. 2 cups brown rice, 12 ounces of chicken. 1 fluid ounce multivitamin (It has 1g protein and 12g carbs so I count it in my marco totals) Totals. 102g carbs 76g protein 4.5g fat.

Meal 3. At work. 160g (2 cups) old fashioned oats. 8 ounces 93% lean ground turkey. Totals 112g carbs 66g protein 26g fat.

Meal 4. At work. Mixed veggie stir fry (tomatoes onions broccoli mushrooms peppers) 8 ounces 90% lean beef. 4 ounces chicken. Totals 25g carbs 81g protein 22g fat.

Meal 5. Bed time. Same as meal 1 just without the Natty peanut butter. Totals 60g carbs 65.5g protein 7g fat.

Daily totals for training day's 365g carbs 361g protein 82.5g fat. 3646.5 cals.

Non training day diet is about the same I just take out some of the carbs cut it down to 1 cup oats 1 cup brown rice from 2 each etc etc. Food remains the same just cutting back a little. Totals For non training days are 233g carbs 344.5g pro 75.5g fat.

If I left something out or you guys just want to give me advice feel free to post!

**Times Roman** · 08-19-2014, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by kyawookie

Hey guy's my stats are 5'10, 180 pounds, around 13-14% body fat age 25. I have been lifting for about 6 years now. My cycle is 500mg test e 900mg deca I will run this for about 16 weeks (Untill I run out of deca) and then cruise 250mg test e until it's time to blast again. .5mg pharm adex EOD. pharm caber and accutane on stand by just in case. I also have pharm nolva/colmid just in case I need to stop for any reason. My training split will be upper body power day tuesday, lower body power day wednesday. Rest day thursday. Bodybuilding back and shoulders friday, Bodybuilding lower body day saturday and bodybuilding chest and arms sunday. rest day monday and then repeat. I do parachute sprints in sand On training days I don't do legs. Now to the hard part (for me at least) the diet. I am doing a 40/40/20 split and I'm doing 2 times my body weight in protein. My goal is to lean bulk. I am worried about putting on fat. Please don't flame me to bad this is my first post!

Meal 1. 1 serving size natural peanut butter. 2 serving size skim milk. 1 large banana. 2 scoops whey protein. 1 serving size fish oil. 1 serving size CQ10. Totals. 66g carbs 72.5g protein 23g fat. This is my meal when I wake up and is also my pre workout meal.

Meal 2. Post workout. 2 cups brown rice, 12 ounces of chicken. 1 fluid ounce multivitamin (It has 1g protein and 12g carbs so I count it in my marco totals) Totals. 102g carbs 76g protein 4.5g fat.

Meal 3. At work. 160g (2 cups) old fashioned oats. 8 ounces 93% lean ground turkey. Totals 112g carbs 66g protein 26g fat.

Meal 4. At work. Mixed veggie stir fry (tomatoes onions broccoli mushrooms peppers) 8 ounces 90% lean beef. 4 ounces chicken. Totals 25g carbs 81g protein 22g fat.

Meal 5. Bed time. Same as meal 1 just without the Natty peanut butter. Totals 60g carbs 65.5g protein 7g fat.

Daily totals for training day's 365g carbs 361g protein 82.5g fat. 3646.5 cals.

Non training day diet is about the same I just take out some of the carbs cut it down to 1 cup oats 1 cup brown rice from 2 each etc etc. Food remains the same just cutting back a little. Totals For non training days are 233g carbs 344.5g pro 75.5g fat.

If I left something out or you guys just want to give me advice feel free to post!

I think the diet looks ok. Run with it for the entire cycle and see what happens. I'm thinking you could put on 10pounds of LBM in the 4 months. 10 pounds retained post cycle. Maybe a little more. Hard to say as each individual is a little different.

Keep a journal on your diet, your workout routines, your results, and importantly, how you FEEL during the day. If you begin to feel fatigued, or fade during training, you may wish to think about switching up the composition of your carbs somewhat from complex to simple (from oats to apples, for example).

And one final thought. Your body needs a break from the almost gram and a half per week of AAS you will take for four months. Cruising at a quarter gram a week and not allowing your body to recover could be a mistake which you may realize down the road by experiencing a variety of sides including sexual sides. Recommend PCT instead of cruising.

my .02

---Roman

**kyawookie** · 08-19-2014, 11:37 PM

I didn't even think about the journal. That's a great idea and I'll definitely do that. As far as cruising goes... I just find it so hard to keep body fat off and still have some size to me natty. I store fat very easy. I'll pct after this but would you recommend less gear for a blast so I can cruise afterwards or is cruising just a bad idea in general?

**600@50** · 08-20-2014, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by kyawookie

I didn't even think about the journal. That's a great idea and I'll definitely do that. As far as cruising goes... I just find it so hard to keep body fat off and still have some size to me natty. I store fat very easy. I'll pct after this but would you recommend less gear for a blast so I can cruise afterwards or is cruising just a bad idea in general?

Cruising is a bad idea considering your 25. Why not fully recover with pct and save the cruising for when you actually need TRT?
Remember you have to continue to eat when your cycle ends. If you gained 10 lbs you have to continue to eat to maintain that 10 lbs. You shouldn't revert back to your old diet.

**Times Roman** · 08-20-2014, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by kyawookie

I didn't even think about the journal. That's a great idea and I'll definitely do that. As far as cruising goes... I just find it so hard to keep body fat off and still have some size to me natty. I store fat very easy. I'll pct after this but would you recommend less gear for a blast so I can cruise afterwards or is cruising just a bad idea in general?

when you keep a journal, you can see quantifiably certain trends. this is when I realized I needed faster burning carbs in my diet. once I introduced more fruit, my lethargy and gym fade cleared up. And I have more energy at work. It's something you can adjust on the fly that really has no impact on your macros. There are a variety of things you can fine tune on the fly like this to get the most out of your diet. Keeping a journal will keep you honest and less confusing to notice "cause and effect".

After you have done this for a while, (months) you will understand and learn your body, and the need to constantly keep a journal is not as critical. And after you have been doing this for years, the seasoned pros know their body so well, they may periodically maintain a journal to recalibrate their understanding to actual, and make slight modifications.

You'll get there.....

**kyawookie** · 08-20-2014, 07:07 PM

Thanks for the tips guys I can't wait to get this cycle going and get some gains. I looked into it a little more and I will be doing my pct after the cycle. Again thanks.

**EquilibriumZ** · 08-22-2014, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by 600@50

Cruising is a bad idea considering your 25. Why not fully recover with pct and save the cruising for when you actually need TRT?
Remember you have to continue to eat when your cycle ends. If you gained 10 lbs you have to continue to eat to maintain that 10 lbs. You shouldn't revert back to your old diet.

I understand you shouldnt go back to your old diet since u got more musclemass hence higher metabolism. But if you keep the same diet, wouldnt you get fat? My thought was to lower the cals abit more than the cals on cycle to maintain and keep on bulking.

2700 cals off cycle
Like 3500 cals on cycle cuz u build alot more muscle in this period and they are less likely to turn into fat.
3200 cals for after cycle cuz u are back to being natural

^ is this correct?

**Roughneck82** · 08-22-2014, 04:11 PM

I upped my cals on on my cruise (100mg/week)to accommodate my new muscle mass, need to feed the new muscle. But I doubled my cardio to accommodate more cals. 4weeks in cruise haven't lost any weight, but people coming up to me at gym and telling me how lean I'm looking. So I wouldn't cut back on cals after, more like up them. My .02

**kyawookie** · 08-22-2014, 06:41 PM

That's kind of exactly how I think. If I go natty and keep cals the same or up them how would I not put on fat. I understand upping cardio but at the same time your lose muscle mass running becasue your body burns fat and muscle natty when you do cardio.... So you keep my muscle mass just eat more? I would put on fat like crazy upping it past 3500 natty.

**Roughneck82** · 08-23-2014, 09:50 AM

Keep a log and track your weight if you see it go up then cut back a little. I upped my cals 400 per day, and staying the same weight. Still dropping bf.

**Roughneck82** · 08-23-2014, 09:52 AM

Also what is your TDEE? Are you already over it? If so, just go to your TDEE and make sure you hit your protein intake ed.

**Times Roman** · 08-23-2014, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Roughneck82

I upped my cals on on my cruise (100mg/week)to accommodate my new muscle mass, need to feed the new muscle. But I doubled my cardio to accommodate more cals. 4weeks in cruise haven't lost any weight, but people coming up to me at gym and telling me how lean I'm looking. So I wouldn't cut back on cals after, more like up them. My .02

the way I would have said it:

based on changes to my stats, I recalculated my TDEE to accommodate my increased weight gain and my new activity level. While I am eating more calories reflecting my new TDEE, I have not lost any of the gains I made during cycle.

the only reason I say this is because TWO things have changed:

new weight - gains from cycle
new activity multiplier - by adding additional cardio

you are on the right path Roughneck.

So many want to "sluff off" when coming off cycle, and then become a nuisance complainer they have lost their gains.

**MR-FQ320** · 08-23-2014, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by kyawookie

I didn't even think about the journal. That's a great idea and I'll definitely do that. As far as cruising goes... I just find it so hard to keep body fat off and still have some size to me natty. I store fat very easy. I'll pct after this but would you recommend less gear for a blast so I can cruise afterwards or is cruising just a bad idea in general?

If thats the case then lower fats and carbs

**Times Roman** · 08-23-2014, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

If thats the case then lower fats and carbs

you are not implying that everything else being equal, eating fats makes you fat, are you?

**MR-FQ320** · 08-23-2014, 01:11 PM

In very basic terms Roman I am saying that the more fat i consume with the same daily calories my bf % will rise, for me consuming less fat makes it easier to stay lean, even when im bulking.

**Times Roman** · 08-23-2014, 01:15 PM

because the metabolic process of breaking down the fat you eat so you can use it for energy, and then when not used, recomposing it back into fat is a more complex process for fat than it is for simple carbs....

...not arguing, but the statement seems at odds with what I experience.

**MR-FQ320** · 08-23-2014, 01:20 PM

i thought it was the other way round, the body doesnt have to do anything with ingested fat to be stored as bodyfat

**Times Roman** · 08-23-2014, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

i thought it was the other way round, the body doesnt have to do anything with ingested fat to be stored as bodyfat

no. it doesn't work that way at all. your body has to break down the fat you eat first into a readily available energy source in the blood stream. then, excess "energy" not used is then stored as fat.

This is why we must hit the cardio for more than 25+ minutes before the body starts metabolizing it's own fat for energy use.

The body WANTS to burn simple carbs as a fuel source.

only after consuming all available blood sugars and glycogen stores will the body begin to burn fat.

your thought process is similar to the one that thinks that if you eat cholesterol your cholesterol levels will increase as a DIRECT causality.

no worries. there are many here that think the way you do. It's a myth, and it's incorrect.

Cheers!
---Roman

**Times Roman** · 08-23-2014, 01:29 PM

part of the myth is based on observation, and faulty conclusions.

See, fat is calorically very dense. And if you eat a meal heavily laden with fat to the point of being "full", then you've consumed a lot of calories. That same feeling of satiation would have significantly less calories if you had eaten lean meat and veggies with very low fat.

Its the calories in the fat that makes you fat, not the fat in and of itself.

**MR-FQ320** · 08-23-2014, 01:38 PM

I am convinced that if eat badly for a day or regularly eat a lot of fats i appear fatter, i like to keep my fats towards 15% daily

**MR-FQ320** · 08-23-2014, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

part of the myth is based on observation, and faulty conclusions.

See, fat is calorically very dense. And if you eat a meal heavily laden with fat to the point of being "full", then you've consumed a lot of calories. That same feeling of satiation would have significantly less calories if you had eaten lean meat and veggies with very low fat.

Its the calories in the fat that makes you fat, not the fat in and of itself.

But if my daily macros are say 25c 25 p 50f, i will get fatter even aeting at tdee or less

**RaginCajun** · 08-23-2014, 02:08 PM

Look at people on Keto diets, they are like 40% protein/60% fats and still burn fat/loss weight

**kyawookie** · 08-25-2014, 09:58 PM

Two quick questions because we are on the topic of fats.

1. Do you need to eat a lot of fat on gear? Because fat is used to make testosterone in your body and because I'm now getting it from an outside source is it that important? What vital role does fat play in bodybuilding if your on gear?

2. Do you need polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats in your diet? Can I get all my fats from meat and eggs? I find that I'm eating so much protein I'm getting almost all my fats from meat and eggs. Do I need to eat more almonds to get more "healthy fats"?

Thanks in advance.

**Khazima** · 08-26-2014, 01:53 AM

Doing cardio doesn't burn muscle or fat, it burns calories so in turn if you are eating less than your TDEE, your body starts burning fat for energy. And fat doesn't make u fat...

**kyawookie** · 08-26-2014, 08:46 PM

Maybe I'm reading that wrong. So your saying that when you do cardio you don't burn muscle? Because that's just flat out wrong. If that was the case just go on a long mass cycle and then start eating under maintenance and do cardio.... keep all your muscle and just simply lose all the fat. Hard to believe it's just that easy.

**tarmyg** · 08-27-2014, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by kyawookie

I understand upping cardio but at the same time your lose muscle mass running becasue your body burns fat and muscle natty when you do cardio....

This is high level bro science BS. The idea that one would burn muscle because you are doing cardio is ridiculous. Please get that out of your head. Diet will determine this NOT cardio.

**kyawookie** · 08-28-2014, 01:09 AM

So if I add a higher ammount of calories and do cardio. So now I'm eating over maintenance and doing cardio. Am I going to burn fat doing cardio? Because I'm still eating over maintenance so I'll gain weight. The flip side I guess would be to eat under maintenance and do cardio and because I'm eating under maintenance I'll lose weight and a little muscle natty. So cardio has nothing to do with it. Its eating over or under maintenance. So why do cardio at all? To raise tdee and be able to eat more that day while still eating under maintenance to cut or lose weight? I'm not trying to argue trust me I just want to make sure that what I'm thinking is correct so I can better my training, diet and possibly help the next guy that is a little confused on this topic.

**celeee** · 08-28-2014, 05:59 AM

If ypu are natty is it almost impossible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time unless you are new to bodybuilding but the best thing you can do would be carb cycling or lean bulk

**Khazima** · 08-28-2014, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by kyawookie

So if I add a higher ammount of calories and do cardio. So now I'm eating over maintenance and doing cardio. Am I going to burn fat doing cardio? Because I'm still eating over maintenance so I'll gain weight. The flip side I guess would be to eat under maintenance and do cardio and because I'm eating under maintenance I'll lose weight and a little muscle natty. So cardio has nothing to do with it. Its eating over or under maintenance. So why do cardio at all? To raise tdee and be able to eat more that day while still eating under maintenance to cut or lose weight? I'm not trying to argue trust me I just want to make sure that what I'm thinking is correct so I can better my training, diet and possibly help the next guy that is a little confused on this topic.

Cardio is for cardio lol, cardiovascular health is important too. You don't need cardio at all, it's an option and a great aid in cutting, and allows you to eat more. But yes you're right if your on a cut eating under maintenance you're probably gonna lose some muscle without any drugs to aid. How slowly you cut determines how much you maintain.

**Khazima** · 08-28-2014, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by celeee

If ypu are natty is it almost impossible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time unless you are new to bodybuilding but the best thing you can do would be carb cycling or lean bulk

You can recomp, basically the best natty version of losing fat and gaining muscle lol. Just eat at maintenance and your bodyfat will slowly go down as your LBM slowly rise.

Athlean-x made a great video on that today actually, I think he over exaggerates the extent to which it can be done (naturally) though.

**kyawookie** · 08-28-2014, 10:03 PM

Can you link that video?

**Khazima** · 08-29-2014, 03:22 AM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3AG-oCXTE

**JJ78** · 08-29-2014, 12:12 PM

I cannot understand how one can eat 12oz of chicken in one sitting. I struggle to get 6-8oz down. And 2 cups of oats? F*ck man, if im not drinkin them I really struggle to get 1 cup cooked down.
2 whole eggs, 3 whites and 1 cup cooked oats takes me 30 mins to get down.

Good luck brother.