Diet without cycle

**charger69** · 09-10-2016, 12:35 PM

I Am presently starting my bulking phase but i cannot cycle at this point. Dr. To do bw in about 5 weeks. I am very good at lean bulking during cycle. I also compete in bodybuilding.
I have never started bulking while off cycle. Do I use the same diet criteria as when on cycle? Are there any changes in the diet recommended because I am not on cycle?
Not that I think it matters, I am almost 50 yo. I am usually right on on my diet, but Dr. Threw a monkey wrench in there and I need to obtain the best results possible under the present conditions.
Also, 0 supplements (no protein, creatine, pwo, vitamins, etc).

**InternalFire** · 09-10-2016, 12:43 PM

I see no issues being off supps, as its something I have been pondering myself about for the last while. knowing which nutrients minerals and vitamins you need most, based around that you could build your diet pretty handy, and having plenty red meats should do you well in good amount of creatine and protein that is complete and good quality too. 0 preworkouts you say - not even cup of espresso? If so I would just say take ice cold shower and go straight in, it still should be a blast.

Diet point - im not expert in this, but I understand off cycle it works very similar with taken benefit of leaner gains meaning gaining fat will be easier and gaining muscle will be harder, however not impossible, hence I would cut out on carbs for the biggest part and would do majority macros from protein, and then some from healthy fats, of course not so much but just few hundred kcal (depending on your weight class goals of course) on the daily caloric intake. Carb cycling is awesome tool to use, in fact it is so amazing - you would almost make yourself feel like youre "on something" when doing it right! Split your meals to small portions have them more frequently and use all the info you got to build some routine that will put you in to anabolic state, that will promote fat loss and lean mass gains along with improved metabolism. that would be my take.

I bet someone more experienced at answering all this will chime in soon.

**InternalFire** · 09-10-2016, 12:46 PM

oh and thats a one hell of a tool to have when looking in to very fine details of all the foods you eat, macros, minerals, vitamins, etc etc etc

Nutrition Facts » SilverTriad

**charger69** · 09-11-2016, 09:32 AM

Thanks Insane.
I was planning on increasing the carbs a little and did not think of the carbs converting to fat easier. I cut the carbs a little and play it by ear as I go.

**InternalFire** · 09-11-2016, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

Thanks Insane. I was planning on increasing the carbs a little and did not think of the carbs converting to fat easier. I cut the carbs a little and play it by ear as I go.

for some carbs go more in hand as fat gain for others as energy source an increased metabolism, its alot trial and error and knowing your body, but if I was in your shoes now I would seriously look in to carb cycling or more so in to one by dr Atkins called anabolic diet, I tried it before and its amazing tool, its amazing once getting in to it right, its not easy however but it delivers good results. just something to ponder about

**Livinlean** · 09-11-2016, 11:25 AM

Why no supplements?

Insane makes very good points. However, if you're goal is to maintain as much muscle mass as possible while off the AAS, I would throw any idea of "lean" out the window. Now this totally depends on your goals and how you want to look during this phase... It also depends on what your definition of "lean" is. Personally I wouldn't cut carbs at any point here because doing so can result in potential muscle loss. You want protein and fat to be used for repair and building, but that wont happen if sufficient carbs aren't present. Well, it will but if your carbs are low, then some fats will be used as fuel.

charger, what exactly are your goals here? Are you looking to be lean and look the part of the lifestyle or are you looking at making competing your priority here? My knowledge beyond what I have already said is limited but if your looking for input for experienced members, they will need to know things such as your goals and stats and even your current diet.

**Livinlean** · 09-11-2016, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

Thanks Insane.
I was planning on increasing the carbs a little and did not think of the carbs converting to fat easier. I cut the carbs a little and play it by ear as I go.

This is typically the best way! Its really hard to make a plan and stick to it because you really don't know how your body will react. Take progress pictures every couple days and compare them to your last one to measure progress.

**charger69** · 09-12-2016, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Livinlean

Why no supplements? Insane makes very good points. However, if you're goal is to maintain as much muscle mass as possible while off the AAS, I would throw any idea of "lean" out the window. Now this totally depends on your goals and how you want to look during this phase... It also depends on what your definition of "lean" is. Personally I wouldn't cut carbs at any point here because doing so can result in potential muscle loss. You want protein and fat to be used for repair and building, but that wont happen if sufficient carbs aren't present. Well, it will but if your carbs are low, then some fats will be used as fuel. charger, what exactly are your goals here? Are you looking to be lean and look the part of the lifestyle or are you looking at making competing your priority here? My knowledge beyond what I have already said is limited but if your looking for input for experienced members, they will need to know things such as your goals and stats and even your current diet.

I am planning on competing in july 2017 in bb.
I cannot take any sups because Dr wants bloodwork for trt . My BUN and creatinine were elevated and doc wants me 6 weeks without supplements . He thinks that these were elevated due to the sups.
When i talk lean, i am trying to stay less than 15% bf. The lower the better.

**InternalFire** · 09-12-2016, 04:35 AM

staying under 15% BF is easy, you should not have trouble with that almost regardless what dies approach you will take, providing you continue your training routines precisely and increase cardio when needed.

are your kidneys doing well? as looking from the tests your doc wants to do he may have some concerns regarding your kidney function maybe?
creatinine shows up higher (to my knowledge that is) usually due to increased muscle tissue damage with excessive protein intake, kidneys need to work extra hard and thus are taxed more when too much protein is being taken, so this may not change much if at all providing you keep on training and continue to have higher protein intake than necessary to maintain, and BUN is to do with nitrogen balance (may get elevated due to excess protein in the blood)

Im not hundred % certain but think its about right.

**charger69** · 09-12-2016, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

staying under 15% BF is easy, you should not have trouble with that almost regardless what dies approach you will take, providing you continue your training routines precisely and increase cardio when needed. are your kidneys doing well? as looking from the tests your doc wants to do he may have some concerns regarding your kidney function maybe? creatinine shows up higher (to my knowledge that is) usually due to increased muscle tissue damage with excessive protein intake, kidneys need to work extra hard and thus are taxed more when too much protein is being taken, so this may not change much if at all providing you keep on training and continue to have higher protein intake than necessary to maintain, and BUN is to do with nitrogen balance (may get elevated due to excess protein in the blood) Im not hundred % certain but think its about right.

My research shows that the BUN and creatinine relate to kidney function and there is a ratio that is used of BUN to creatinine which was also out. I took my preworkout that morning which contained creatine ( found out later). I also had glycigen and protein after my workout that morning. Hopefully this is the reason for the high results. Dr. Feels the same.

**TroyJackson3000** · 09-13-2016, 05:38 AM

sounds like a fine idea go for it

Originally Posted by charger69

I Am presently starting my bulking phase but i cannot cycle at this point. Dr. To do bw in about 5 weeks. I am very good at lean bulking during cycle. I also compete in bodybuilding.
I have never started bulking while off cycle. Do I use the same diet criteria as when on cycle? Are there any changes in the diet recommended because I am not on cycle?
Not that I think it matters, I am almost 50 yo. I am usually right on on my diet, but Dr. Threw a monkey wrench in there and I need to obtain the best results possible under the present conditions.
Also, 0 supplements (no protein, creatine, pwo, vitamins, etc).

**TroyJackson3000** · 09-13-2016, 05:41 AM

yeah that ratio of kidney function is not diluted

Originally Posted by charger69

My research shows that the BUN and creatinine relate to kidney function and there is a ratio that is used of BUN to creatinine which was also out. I took my preworkout that morning which contained creatine ( found out later). I also had glycigen and protein after my workout that morning. Hopefully this is the reason for the high results. Dr. Feels the same.