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Thread: Fasted cardio…an undeserved good reputation

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    tarmyg's Avatar
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    Fasted cardio…an undeserved good reputation

    This is a great write-up on this myth. Recommended for anyone who is doing fasted cardio because they "know" it is better for fat loss.

    Fasted Cardio…an Undeserved Good Reputation – Weightology

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    There are also studies that suggest up to 20% more fat is burned with fasted cardio, I think the jury is out on this one. I've had success with fasted cardio before but I can't really quantify what the difference was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redz View Post
    There are also studies that suggest up to 20% more fat is burned with fasted cardio, I think the jury is out on this one. I've had success with fasted cardio before but I can't really quantify what the difference was.
    The verdict has been in for quite sometime according to all that data I have seen but if you have other resources I'll be happy to keep an open mind.

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    Good read.
    I personally enjoy fasted cardio better than fed, just as I prefer fasted weight training in the AM.
    When I train, I train hard and heavy, and anything in my stomach tends to come up, specially on leg day!

    Interesting though to see there is no benefit. At least, not from that small study.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    This is a great write-up on this myth. Recommended for anyone who is doing fasted cardio because they "know" it is better for fat loss.

    Fasted Cardio…an Undeserved Good Reputation – Weightology
    Thank you!

    Maybe people can realize that you can burn fat with elevated insulin levels also.

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    I had some studies up yesterday that showed different results. I'll have to find them again I can assure you there are studies that show better results fasted.

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    One was a British journal of nutrition study that showed a 20% difference but it's hard to reference only one study for a conclusive result unless it is a very large study with very strict over sight.

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    20 person 4 week study with little details to be honest I'd take that whole thing for an opinion more than straight fact. I doubt there was even controls on the study or accurate diets the second study for 6 weeks was even less people and they were obese women. I would not draw conclusions from this.

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    wellshii is offline Associate Member
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    Total TDEE vs calories in.
    TOTAL.
    Fasted though, when I did it, I seemed more focused.
    One study I recall is that when fasted,more fat was burned right then and there vs fed,but overall more fat was burned throughout the day when fed.

    My take it? Vary it up. Always always vary. HIIT works for sure ,so combine the two. Besides I cant run with a full stomach anyways. Eh

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Thank you!

    Maybe people can realize that you can burn fat with elevated insulin levels also.
    That contradicts pretty much any personal belief I held regarding nutrition. I need to update my knowledge...

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    For me cardio is cardio. Its burning calories. Fed cardio is easier IMO. If u burn 500cals it's 500 cals... whether u have a stomach full of food or not.

    I've read UD 2.0 and run it sucessfully. I've read Lyle Macdonalds explanation of FFA mobilization and how fat can't be mobilized while Insulin is present, but in spite of all this I can still get lean AF doing 450cals fed cardio...

    As of late for me the best diet and training program is the one that requires the least amount of thinking! Simple is better. No need to over-complicate IMO.

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    Well, in my experience, oh wait, nevermind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Well, in my experience, oh wait, nevermind.
    Back in 2012-13 I did lose more than 60 pounds by means of diet and weight training but no cardio. I had thyroiditis already.

    Now I'm doing diet and cardio, and I struggle to see any result, no matter I fixed the hypothyroidism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Back in 2012-13 I did lose more than 60 pounds by means of diet and weight training but no cardio. I had thyroiditis already.

    Now I'm doing diet and cardio, and I struggle to see any result, no matter I fixed the hypothyroidism.
    I do respond well to cardio if I can be bothered to include it.

    But, I can't say with any degree of certainty whether that's the cardio, or the fact that I'm dieting properly and focused enough to be doing cardio in the first place. Haha.




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    fasted cardio is a no brainer ..

    yes you will burn more fat during fasted cardio but... some studies look at the after effect , 4-8-12-24-48 hours post cardio and most show eating before cardio burns less fat during the work out but boost fat during post workout 3x longer than fasted ,

    I honestly don't think it will make a difference in the long run

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    That contradicts pretty much any personal belief I held regarding nutrition. I need to update my knowledge...
    Insulin is a storage hormone, and acts to drive nutrients into fat cells as well, but by no means does that equate to fat loss being impossible with elevated insulin levels.
    I've not only read as much, but my own experience with long acting insulin tells me that as long as you got high insulin sensitivity, then nutrients will preferentially be shuttled to muscle cells instead of fat cells.

    That's why I kinda shake my head when people say BCAAs are bad for fat loss due to raising insulin and being converted to glucose. Yes they do, but to what degree? And wouldn't the anti catabolic and anabolic response outweigh this effect.
    I can't know for certain, have no proof.
    Just had several people lose weight while sipping on BCAA drinks through their workouts. So if it hinders fat loss, it doesn't equate to drinking a bottle of Coca Cola at least.

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    Those who fixate on insulin blocking fat loss (and it does indeed regulate fat loss) usually looks at insulins effects of stuff like LPL/Lipoprotein Lipase.
    I'm just going to use this one enzyme as an example, but there are several.
    LPL is increased in adipose tissue by insulin, but for this to happen, other factors so need to be present. Furthermore, LPL activity differs in different types of adipose tissue.

    Hormone sensitive lipase/HSL is another enzyme involved in fat metabolism and influenced by insulin.
    ACP is also involved, but doesn't need insulin to be activated.

    On the whole, insulin in itself affects many enzymes involved in fat storage,
    and seems to hinder fat loss, but it's pretty complex overall,
    with several studies reporting the same weight loss from different types of diets, where one would have higher insulin levels than the other.

    So to fixate on insulin can easily get to simplified.
    Whether catecholamines overrides the effect of insulin on fat cells also seem to be different in which adipose tissue you look at, and the gender.
    (Males being 11 times more sensitive, or 11x as many receptors, to catecholamines in adipose tissue around the stomach in one study I found.)

    When it's hard to define whether catecholamines or insulin will be the strongest influence, it gets a lot harder when you factor in all the other hormones as well.

    My point is simply that insulins actions on adipose tissue is more complex than what is usually presented.

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    I was going to just use LPL as an example, but I drifted off as usual...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Insulin is a storage hormone, and acts to drive nutrients into fat cells as well, but by no means does that equate to fat loss being impossible with elevated insulin levels.
    Oh, put that way it makes sense. I was rather thinking what dietary habits (despite normo-caloric intake) might lead to (eventually chronic) high insulin levels, I wasn't considering elevated levels per se.

    What I know personally is that I can eat all the fat I want and not gain weight at least, but let me have some simple sugars, and my %bf is quickly on the ramp.
    Last edited by hammerheart; 03-04-2017 at 09:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Oh, put that way it makes sense. I was rather thinking what dietary habits (despite normo-caloric intake) might lead to (eventually chronic) high insulin levels, I wasn't considering elevated levels per se.

    What I know personally is that I can eat all the fat I want and not gain weight at least, but let me have some simple sugars, and my %bf is quickly on the ramp.
    Yeah, that's not so easy to scientifically explain.
    But simple carbs are linked to obesity.

    Actually, if you just add simple sugars to the same diet then many studies have concluded that to cause fat gain.
    And one would think insulin is involved ofcourse.
    But, as with some of the enzymes i mentioned;
    They can require both insulin and glucose to store fat.

    So insulin alone, either exogenous or caused by protein,
    may elicit a totally different response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Those who fixate on insulin blocking fat loss (and it does indeed regulate fat loss) usually looks at insulins effects of stuff like LPL/Lipoprotein Lipase.
    I'm just going to use this one enzyme as an example, but there are several.
    LPL is increased in adipose tissue by insulin, but for this to happen, other factors so need to be present. Furthermore, LPL activity differs in different types of adipose tissue.

    Hormone sensitive lipase/HSL is another enzyme involved in fat metabolism and influenced by insulin.
    ACP is also involved, but doesn't need insulin to be activated.

    On the whole, insulin in itself affects many enzymes involved in fat storage,
    and seems to hinder fat loss, but it's pretty complex overall,
    with several studies reporting the same weight loss from different types of diets, where one would have higher insulin levels than the other.

    So to fixate on insulin can easily get to simplified.
    Whether catecholamines overrides the effect of insulin on fat cells also seem to be different in which adipose tissue you look at, and the gender.
    (Males being 11 times more sensitive, or 11x as many receptors, to catecholamines in adipose tissue around the stomach in one study I found.)

    When it's hard to define whether catecholamines or insulin will be the strongest influence, it gets a lot harder when you factor in all the other hormones as well.

    My point is simply that insulins actions on adipose tissue is more complex than what is usually presented.
    In graduate school part of my research duties was centered around Insulin and adrenaline. As it turns out, which was not known well at the time. The insulin receptor is a three part receptor that migrates through the plasma membrane to unite and form the completed receptor, in the presense of insulin.
    This wasn't my area of focus or my labs I should say. So I don't particularly know what signaled the incomplete receptor to form.

    However where my specific area or interest was in what happened in the cytosol after the second messager cascade was initiated. Many of the same second messenger intermediaries are the same for the adrenaline and insulin receptor. What was not clear, at least at the time, was what signal would change IPL or PPL (among others) from a adrenaline specific or a insulin specific intermediary. They seemed to know which molecule they were working for even though they were no different in structure.

    This was a hot area of research in that if they could figure out how to develope a pharmacuetical that could cause adrenaline like activity in the fat cells to release fatty acids AND cause fatty acid oxidation increase in muscle cells, they could potentially develope exercise "in a bottle."
    Essentially that is what happens during exercise. Part of what so many researchers were interested in is that when adrenaline is released, insulins actions in fat cells is decreased as far as fatty acid deposition but increases glucose sensitivity in MUSCLE cells.

    If they could have figured that out. Morbidly obese individuals or those who couldn't exercise safely, could potentially get the benefits of chronic exercise with just a pill., thus improving their morbidity.

    I haven't looked at this stuff since 2007 so I have no idea where it's at. I suspect as Doc Toxic mentions they found more processes deeper down in the chain and are still trying to figure it out.
    Last edited by MuscleScience; 03-12-2017 at 07:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by --->>405<<--- View Post
    Simple is better. No need to over-complicate IMO.
    +1....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Well, in my experience, oh wait, nevermind.
    Yeah Yeah Yeah.... showoff!!

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    Enjoyed the article.

    This is last paragraph in article.

    Do What You Prefer


    This is last sentence in last paragraph.


    The bottom line is that you should simply do the type of cardio that you prefer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat View Post

    The bottom line is that you should simply do the type of cardio that you prefer.
    100%

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    What kind of cardio do you guys prefer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    What kind of cardio do you guys prefer?
    The kind were you put plates of metal on pieces of metal and lift up and down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post

    The kind were you put plates of metal on pieces of metal and lift up and down.
    Have I been lied to this whole time :O

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    As long as it gets done.

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