Continue calorie surplus after cycle?

**Octaneforce** · 04-03-2017, 10:20 AM

24 years old, 5.5, dabbling with weights since i was a kid but training seriously since about 19. I just finished a 13 week test e cycle this week and about to begin pct. i started at about 165lbs and ended at 182lbs. Percentage wise for a guy as short as myself, i think 17lbs is alot. Im bigger and stronger than ever i dont even really feel fat. So the question is, do i continue eating like a god damn animal off cycle? Or will it stop synthesizing as well and just give me love handles? At the moment i eat my 3 meals daily along with a mass gainer shake in the morning and at night. Im right around the 300g of protien mark which is more than i did before i cycled. Im not really a hard gainer i think i fall somewhere in the middle. Summer is here and id like to lean out a little but i dont want to lose the amazing gains i got in the last few months.

**Obs** · 04-03-2017, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

24 years old, 5.5, dabbling with weights since i was a kid but training seriously since about 19. I just finished a 13 week test e cycle this week and about to begin pct. i started at about 165lbs and ended at 182lbs. Percentage wise for a guy as short as myself, i think 17lbs is alot. Im bigger and stronger than ever i dont even really feel fat. So the question is, do i continue eating like a god damn animal off cycle? Or will it stop synthesizing as well and just give me love handles? At the moment i eat my 3 meals daily along with a mass gainer shake in the morning and at night. Im right around the 300g of protien mark which is more than i did before i cycled. Im not really a hard gainer i think i fall somewhere in the middle. Summer is here and id like to lean out a little but i dont want to lose the amazing gains i got in the last few months.

You can continue a clean bulk diet to the end of pct and possibly continue gaining. At least thats what certain intelligent individuals say on here.

**Octaneforce** · 04-03-2017, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

You can continue a clean bulk diet to the end of pct and possibly continue gaining. At least thats what certain intelligent individuals say on here.

I want to continue gaining until my next cycle! Haha. I mean i dont mind carrying a litte extra fat if it means maintaining my size and strength. Im debating dropping the mass gainer shakes. They are 1600 calories each alone

**lntense** · 04-03-2017, 12:42 PM

In my opinion eating the same would be silly, if you're cycling/pcting.

Your body isn't going to metabolize the food at the same rate, and not near as efficiently. So protein and nutrients that while on cycle might have been utilized may not when off, and trying to get your hpta going again.

Another thing you should also ease up on is the training, I used to have the mind set that I needed to train twice as hard and eat the exact same or better during pct and when I was off cycle, to maintain any possible gains. I learned the hard way that's the complete opposite.. and the result was losing muscle mass and gaining a lot of fat. Because you just don't have the high hormone levels as support.

As for the food, I would keep protein moderately high like you were on cycle, but watch the amount of carbs and fats and utilize carbs more intelligently around workouts etc. to maintain or increase as much insulin sensitivity as possible.

You won't be superman anymore for a while.. sucks. Quality sleep and clean diet is very important during this period.

Matt Porter has an interesting series on youtube, it was several months ago where he came off all drugs and tried to maintain his mass. He basically had to limit his training and had almost a perfect diet, and he STILL gained fat and loss muscle mass/strength. It's also highly genetic but for the majority of us that is the case. He was an ifbb pro though so he was on some serious cycles I'm sure and his body was fucking terrified when he came off everything lol.

He went from this

to average looking and pretty weak. I wish I had an after picture.

Edit:
ok here's a screen grab but it's before he lost even more mass and gained even more fat, with a great diet/training regimen.

.

**Obs** · 04-03-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

I want to continue gaining until my next cycle! Haha. I mean i dont mind carrying a litte extra fat if it means maintaining my size and strength. Im debating dropping the mass gainer shakes. They are 1600 calories each alone

I think it was mr. BB talking about this a while back. I can't find it. Those shakes sound terrible. I have dreams of maintaining a lot for three months off but we all know how that goes. Atm I am just happy my balls are swelling back up on clomid. Was a little worried

**Richard Cabeza** · 04-03-2017, 01:04 PM

Honestly If holding a little exrtra weight isn't really an issue for you I'd say go for it, maybe adjust macros just to control unnecessary excessive fat, increase cardio and continue to lift with the same intensity as much as possible. Lots of guys i see do this when they pct to not only continue to gain but so they don't all of a sudden drop a shit ton of weight and mentally fuck themselves after a cycle, i purposely stopped creatine on cycle so when i get off and start taking it again that added water retention will help me maintain some size and strength, i also plan on eating pretty much the same with probably a few adjustments of my macros until i fully recover and its time to cut

**Octaneforce** · 04-03-2017, 03:05 PM

Intense, its interesting you said that i shouldnt push as hard during pct. im at 110% training wise right now and really taking every workout to my limit 5-6 days a week religiously. Thats why i was worried about pct because i dont think theres any room to push harder. But your saying maybe focus on sleep and diet and drop training to 3 days a week? I could understand that. I guess it explains guys i see that do a half assed cycle and barely train but still seem to stay big. Its pretty frustrating to see but good genetics is probably on their side too.

**Octaneforce** · 04-03-2017, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Cabeza

Honestly If holding a little exrtra weight isn't really an issue for you I'd say go for it, maybe adjust macros just to control unnecessary excessive fat, increase cardio and continue to lift with the same intensity as much as possible. Lots of guys i see do this when they pct to not only continue to gain but so they don't all of a sudden drop a shit ton of weight and mentally fuck themselves after a cycle, i purposely stopped creatine on cycle so when i get off and start taking it again that added water retention will help me maintain some size and strength, i also plan on eating pretty much the same with probably a few adjustments of my macros until i fully recover and its time to cut

This is what i had in mind. I guess everyones different and the only way to find out exactly what works for me is trial and error.

**lntense** · 04-06-2017, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Intense, its interesting you said that i shouldnt push as hard during pct. im at 110% training wise right now and really taking every workout to my limit 5-6 days a week religiously. Thats why i was worried about pct because i dont think theres any room to push harder. But your saying maybe focus on sleep and diet and drop training to 3 days a week? I could understand that. I guess it explains guys i see that do a half assed cycle and barely train but still seem to stay big. Its pretty frustrating to see but good genetics is probably on their side too.

Find out what works for you. But when coming off your hormone levels are going to be low.. Pretty hard to hold on to mass and keep off fat when they are so low, you're almost always catabolic. Then throwing in intense training which can tax the CNS and increase cortisol makes for an even more catabolic environment, which is the opposite of what you want. Being on testosterone and some other AAS decreases cortisol and provides a perfect environment for building muscle and recovering from those brutal workouts.

Rest, moderate training, and clean food is key in my experience. Until your hormones return to what they were before cycling, which they rarely do but at least you can maintain a physique when your levels come back up some.

Seeing the gains pack on from hard work for 15 weeks, then going off and losing half if not more with an even better diet than on cycle and training just as hard was discouraging. So I chose the blast and cruise route. At least with TRT doses you can maintain a lot, you won't have the freaky vascularity or fullness as when blasting but you can have a very good physique on 100-150mg of test a week. Btw I'm not advising trt, pinning all the time blows.

**Octaneforce** · 04-11-2017, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by lntense

Find out what works for you. But when coming off your hormone levels are going to be low.. Pretty hard to hold on to mass and keep off fat when they are so low, you're almost always catabolic. Then throwing in intense training which can tax the CNS and increase cortisol makes for an even more catabolic environment, which is the opposite of what you want. Being on testosterone and some other AAS decreases cortisol and provides a perfect environment for building muscle and recovering from those brutal workouts.

Rest, moderate training, and clean food is key in my experience. Until your hormones return to what they were before cycling, which they rarely do but at least you can maintain a physique when your levels come back up some.

Seeing the gains pack on from hard work for 15 weeks, then going off and losing half if not more with an even better diet than on cycle and training just as hard was discouraging. So I chose the blast and cruise route. At least with TRT doses you can maintain a lot, you won't have the freaky vascularity or fullness as when blasting but you can have a very good physique on 100-150mg of test a week. Btw I'm not advising trt, pinning all the time blows.

Im looking forward to trt because of this. Obviously it wont be for a long long time but the benefits are great from what ive read. I also dont want to get frustrated and rush into another cycle too soon.

**Juced_porkchop** · 04-11-2017, 08:15 AM

I rec keeping cals/diet high while in pct and just after, helps limit muscle loss IMO. either wait a couple months AFTER pct to start pct or... well.. cut at end of cycle.

**Mr. Small** · 04-11-2017, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Juced_porkchop

I rec keeping cals/diet high while in pct and just after, helps limit muscle loss IMO. either wait a couple months AFTER pct to start pct or... well..cut at end of cycle.

Cutting straight after a cycle would be a waste though

**Couchlock** · 04-11-2017, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Small

Cutting straight after a cycle would be a waste though

Cut after a cycle is a perfect combination of events to perfectly loose muscle in the quickest fastest way.

Cut after a cycle during pct is how you purposely loose everything you gained (don't know why or who would want to, but that's how you'd do it)

**Octaneforce** · 04-11-2017, 02:26 PM

Cutting calories and going catabolic is exactly what im afraid of. I probably times this cycle bad because now its warm out and im gonna be in a bathinsuit alot. Whatever i dont mind the "puffy" look. Id rather be a little less lean for a summer than ruin my gains. I think im already shedding water weight though. Debating supping with creatine even though it makes me feel gross. I'll keep the calories high. Alot of great input in this thread

**Couchlock** · 04-11-2017, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Cutting calories and going catabolic is exactly what im afraid of. I probably times this cycle bad because now its warm out and im gonna be in a bathinsuit alot. Whatever i dont mind the "puffy" look. Id rather be a little less lean for a summer than ruin my gains. I think im already shedding water weight though. Debating supping with creatine even though it makes me feel gross. I'll keep the calories high. Alot of great input in this thread

So you haven't taking creatine the whole time you've been on cycle?

Cretin is one of the only supplements necessary on cycle other than n-acetylcysteine

**RaginCajun** · 04-11-2017, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

So you haven't taking creatine the whole time you've been on cycle? Cretin is one of the only supplements necessary on cycle other than n-acetylcysteine

Why is creatine necessary on cycle?

**Couchlock** · 04-11-2017, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun

Why is creatine necessary on cycle?

I don't know about necessary, but its benefits really shine on cycle.

Id say its a staple

**RaginCajun** · 04-11-2017, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

I don't know about necessary, but its benefits really shine on cycle. Id say its a staple

Can't disagree there as it does have its benefits

**Obs** · 04-11-2017, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

So you haven't taking creatine the whole time you've been on cycle?

Cretin is one of the only supplements necessary on cycle other than n-acetylcysteine

I have never taken creatine on cycle. Havent taken it since I was young. Got to 190 very lean and natural. Maybe I should. Hell, I might even check out nac which I have never taken.

**Octaneforce** · 04-12-2017, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

So you haven't taking creatine the whole time you've been on cycle?

Cretin is one of the only supplements necessary on cycle other than n-acetylcysteine

Theres a tiny bit of creatine in my protien powder that i can tolerate. But when i directly use straight creatine powder i get really uncomfortable. Bloated, stomach ache, having to $hit my brains out throughout my workout. It just never seemed worth it to me. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

**KINGKONG** · 04-13-2017, 02:26 PM

There is no cookie cutter diet answer..I keep a log of all my food intake and make adjustments accordingly..I've had friends who eat fast food all day get leaner and others who get fat looking at a bag of chips..you need to really keep a eye on your food intake and monitor the way you look..get your bodyfat checked and take measurements don't ever go by the scale you will lose water weight quickly..I would get rid of the weight gainer shakes sub in the same macros in real food I think that adjustment alone would benefit you greatly..don't let yourself fall in that lethargic depressed attitude that makes most fall apart ..train hard but don't train with the same volume..