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Thread: Clean dieting. Reached a decent shape and BF %. Struggling with the last pounds.

  1. #1
    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    Clean dieting. Reached a decent shape and BF %. Struggling with the last pounds.

    Hi all,

    I've been dieting since the middle of January following a regime made to me by Menno H. with one modification: I workout with weights 3X per week as opposed to 4X per week. His workouts were simply too taxing and time consuming for me. I got weaker and fatigued.

    Diet:

    3 meals per day on all days. I tend to eat my first meal at noon, so basically it's like a PSMF.

    PSMF 4 days per week. Basically minimizing carbs and fat.

    High fat, moderate carbs and protein on workout days with the bulk of food intake after workouts.

    Workout:

    90-120 minutes with weights 3X per week. Multi-joint movements. Deadlifts. Squats. Bench. Chins. Pull-ups. Etc.

    Cardio: Brisk 45-60 minute walk on most PSMF days.

    Results:

    I've been able to maintain and even gain some strength initially in January, so I think I've retained most of my mass. I'm also considerably leaner.

    BUT, lately my results seemed to have stalled and I feel like I'm putting in a lot of effort not really going anywhere. I used the same regime two years back and felt I reached a slightly better BF% before stalling, but still stalling.

    I would estimate my BF% to be around 11-12 % now. I'm spotting my ABS in the mirror, especially in good light, but I still carry those last 4-5 pounds before being really lean.

    After a slight break this Easter, I feel ready to resume my fat loss and I'm motivated to shed those last pounds, but I feel I need to make some changes.

    Any advice? Any diets that might be better? Keto-diets maybe? Perhaps a more even deficit on most days without PSMF days? Considering my PSMF days, I don't feel I could eat much less anyway. I've even considered if I'm eating too little already.

    More cardio?

    Thanks in advance for any help!

  2. #2
    Nephets's Avatar
    Nephets is offline Senior Member
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    If you don't feel like you can eat less food then I would up the cardio or up the intensity of the workouts.

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    MuscleScience is online now AR-Hall of Famer
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    keto always helps push me over the last little hump.

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    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephets View Post
    If you don't feel like you can eat less food then I would up the cardio or up the intensity of the workouts.
    I bet I could, but I also fear eating 'too little' already with 4 days of PSMF per week. Is that a real concern? Or might it be that I simply need to eat even less than I already do?

    I considered cutting fat on my workout days. But in truth, I was considering perhaps just starting with a completely new regime.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    keto always helps push me over the last little hump.
    Any specific keto diet?

    I used to follow something called Timed Carb by Ironaddict back in the day. Not sure if that one's still relevant.

  5. #5
    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    For what it's worth, I'm currently on 12828 kcal per week:

    PSMF = 1275 kcal per day 4X per week

    Workout days = 2576 kcal per day 3X per week (50 and 60 g fat on each PWO meal)

    If I were to instead spread this out over the week that would amount to 12828/7 = 1833 kcal per day.

    I curently weigh 156 pounds (71 kg).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renholder View Post
    Hi all,

    I've been dieting since the middle of January following a regime made to me by Menno H. with one modification: I workout with weights 3X per week as opposed to 4X per week. His workouts were simply too taxing and time consuming for me. I got weaker and fatigued.

    Diet:

    3 meals per day on all days. I tend to eat my first meal at noon, so basically it's like a PSMF.

    PSMF 4 days per week. Basically minimizing carbs and fat.

    High fat, moderate carbs and protein on workout days with the bulk of food intake after workouts.

    Workout:

    90-120 minutes with weights 3X per week. Multi-joint movements. Deadlifts. Squats. Bench. Chins. Pull-ups. Etc.

    Cardio: Brisk 45-60 minute walk on most PSMF days.

    Results:

    I've been able to maintain and even gain some strength initially in January, so I think I've retained most of my mass. I'm also considerably leaner.

    BUT, lately my results seemed to have stalled and I feel like I'm putting in a lot of effort not really going anywhere. I used the same regime two years back and felt I reached a slightly better BF% before stalling, but still stalling.

    I would estimate my BF% to be around 11-12 % now. I'm spotting my ABS in the mirror, especially in good light, but I still carry those last 4-5 pounds before being really lean.

    After a slight break this Easter, I feel ready to resume my fat loss and I'm motivated to shed those last pounds, but I feel I need to make some changes.

    Any advice? Any diets that might be better? Keto-diets maybe? Perhaps a more even deficit on most days without PSMF days? Considering my PSMF days, I don't feel I could eat much less anyway. I've even considered if I'm eating too little already.

    More cardio?

    Thanks in advance for any help!
    proper diet + higher intensity cardio + calorie deficit = BF % loss
    There will always be a different study and ideas of how cardio should be performed but IMHO it is simple...higher resistance & intensity allows faster results in less time than low intensity longer duration training when it comes to cardio.
    There are a lot of guys that would argue this point but for me it is a tested & proven fact.
    I can go 25-30 min of high resistance cardio and burn more calories (higher resistance also stimulates muscle growth in legs and glutes) than 45-1hr of low resistance/low intensity cardio ever will.
    When I finish my cardio my legs and glutes are tired as if I did leg presses or weighted exercise relevant to the type of cardio performed. I mostly do elliptical and stair climber. As I find it easier to complete the cardio session, I up the resistance and intensity not the length of session.
    If you want to drop the last 5 lbs + cut out any added fats that do not come from essential oils, nuts. Sugars only from natural occurring foods such as bananas, apples etc..carbs only from complex foods such as quinoa, brown rice, yams, veggies etc...cut out all bread items, tortillas, crackers, chips & such.
    No processed foods and condiments such as mayo, salad dressings and sauces which are high in crap fat. FYI...If you eat out at restaurants I guarantee you are eating way more calories and crap fat than you think...there is a reason that their food tastes so good...major amounts of butter, cream oil and salt used in foods that you wouldn't even think...Steak for instance. Most steakhouses smother their steaks in like a half of a cup of butter at least...same with their veggies...

    I think people over complicate the most simplest of equations for fat loss...not really hard just requires that you be honest with yourself and your goals.
    Last edited by Sicko; 04-18-2017 at 09:31 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renholder View Post
    I bet I could, but I also fear eating 'too little' already with 4 days of PSMF per week. Is that a real concern? Or might it be that I simply need to eat even less than I already do?

    I considered cutting fat on my workout days. But in truth, I was considering perhaps just starting with a completely new regime.



    Any specific keto diet?

    I used to follow something called Timed Carb by Ironaddict back in the day. Not sure if that one's still relevant.
    None in particular just basically get none fiberous carbs under 30 grams for 6 days straight, then refeed on the 7th day and repeat. Refeeding is optional If for example your cutting for a show, no longer than 4-6weeks. It's really hard to go that long without a descent amount of carbs. I went 6 weeks with carbs under 30-50 grams for one of my physique competitions and came in extremely flat and not feeling well. Won't do that again as far as cutting, lessons learned. But I shed body fat like you wouldn't believe. I have done this after injury and time off to help get my BF to a manageable level. I went from 25-27% bf to 11-13% in about 8weeks after being injured, depressed and not working out for 6 months. I actually felt pretty good but again, I looked really flat.

    Now I personally refeed every 2nd Sunday. I do that because you kick your body out of ketosis for a few days each time. If your doing a lot of HIIT for cardio, like I do. You need to refeed yourself with carbs to help your body keep up with the trauma of exercise and sustain fat mobilization going. You do need small amounts of carbohydrates to process fatty acids in beta-Oxydation.
    Last edited by MuscleScience; 05-06-2017 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Misspoke on time frame for weight loss. Should have been over about 8 weeks or so.

  8. #8
    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicko View Post
    proper diet + higher intensity cardio + calorie deficit = BF % loss
    There will always be a different study and ideas of how cardio should be performed but IMHO it is simple...higher resistance & intensity allows faster results in less time than low intensity longer duration training when it comes to cardio.
    There are a lot of guys that would argue this point but for me it is a tested & proven fact.
    I can go 25-30 min of high resistance cardio and burn more calories (higher resistance also stimulates muscle growth in legs and glutes) than 45-1hr of low resistance/low intensity cardio ever will.
    When I finish my cardio my legs and glutes are tired as if I did leg presses or weighted exercise relevant to the type of cardio performed. I mostly do elliptical and stair climber. As I find it easier to complete the cardio session, I up the resistance and intensity not the length of session.
    If you want to drop the last 5 lbs + cut out any added fats that do not come from essential oils, nuts. Sugars only from natural occurring foods such as bananas, apples etc..carbs only from complex foods such as quinoa, brown rice, yams, veggies etc...cut out all bread items, tortillas, crackers, chips & such.
    No processed foods and condiments such as mayo, salad dressings and sauces which are high in crap fat. FYI...If you eat out at restaurants I guarantee you are eating way more calories and crap fat than you think...there is a reason that their food tastes so good...major amounts of butter, cream oil and salt used in foods that you wouldn't even think...Steak for instance. Most steakhouses smother their steaks in like a half of a cup of butter at least...same with their veggies...

    I think people over complicate the most simplest of equations for fat loss...not really hard just requires that you be honest with yourself and your goals.
    Hi,

    Regarding cardio, I know many so called 'gurus' these days are opposed to cardio on a diet. For instance Menno Henselmanns (which designed my current regime), Martin Berkhan, etc. I think the rationale is that cardio is too taxing on the body under a deficit and that the fat loss from HIT cardio is overrated?

    But it might very well be that I personally need cardio to rid this stubborn fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    None in particular just basically get none fiberous carbs under 30 grams for 6 days straight, then refeed on the 7th day and repeat. Refeeding is optional If for example your cutting for a show, no longer than 4-6weeks. It's really hard to go that long without a descent amount of carbs. I went 6 weeks with carbs under 30-50 grams for one of my physique competitions and came in extremely flat and not feeling well. Won't do that again as far as cutting, lessons learned. But I shed body fat like you wouldn't believe. I have done this after injury and time off to help get my BF to a manageable level. I went from 25-27% bf to 11-13% in 6 weeks after being injured, depressed and not working out for 6 months. I actually felt pretty good but again, I looked really flat.

    Now I personally refeed every 2nd Sunday. I do that because you kick your body out of ketosis for a few days each time. If your doing a lot of HIIT for cardio, like I do. You need to refeed yourself with carbs to help keep your body keep up with the trauma of exercise and keep fat mobilization going. You do need small amounts of carbohydrates to process fatty acids in beta-Oxydation.
    Sounds good. Any ideas on how much fat to consume? I might look into the timed carb regime by iron addict as there's some guidelines on macro and such there.

  9. #9
    MuscleScience is online now AR-Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renholder View Post
    Hi,

    Regarding cardio, I know many so called 'gurus' these days are opposed to cardio on a diet. For instance Menno Henselmanns (which designed my current regime), Martin Berkhan, etc. I think the rationale is that cardio is too taxing on the body under a deficit and that the fat loss from HIT cardio is overrated?

    But it might very well be that I personally need cardio to rid this stubborn fat.



    Sounds good. Any ideas on how much fat to consume? I might look into the timed carb regime by iron addict as there's some guidelines on macro and such there.
    I start with a 60/30/10 protein/fats/carbs then adjust from there. The 10% carbs figures in fiberous with none fiberous carb sources. You need some bulk forming food stuff so you can poop and keep your gut flora happy.
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  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Renholder;7286274]Hi,

    Regarding cardio, I know many so called 'gurus' these days are opposed to cardio on a diet. For instance Menno Henselmanns (which designed my current regime), Martin Berkhan, etc. I think the rationale is that cardio is too taxing on the body under a deficit and that the fat loss from HIT cardio is overrated?

    But it might very well be that I personally need cardio to rid this stubborn fat.

    IMO those guys are the type of folks who I feel are over complicating fat loss by ignoring the proven benefits of daily cardio in relation to fat loss...By following their "programs" you will need to make all kinds of sacrifices and complicated macro adjustments manipulating your fats and carbs up and down and what not by following these type of programs till you find the sweet spot...Why do they do this? Because it is utilizing low resistance cardio only a few times a week and trying to make up for it by playing around with macros to make up for the lack of cardio.

    For example..If you want washboard abs you have to do abs training everyday not twice a week...if you want to drop fat... you eat clean foods at a calorie deficit and do cardio every day until you reach your goal. Then you can get to a maintenance program.
    Higher resistance/intensity cardio = less time and faster results....low resistance/intensity cardio a few times a week = more time and slower results.

    If you are at competition level bodybuilding for shows and such then I believe there is a need for these types of programs because you are asking your body to do things that are unnatural and unattainable without drastic way outside of the normal behavior.

    This is of course my opinion but its based off of personal experience and basically just common sense if you ask me.
    Either way you go you will most likely get the results you want. I guess its just how complicated you want to make your journey
    Last edited by Sicko; 04-19-2017 at 10:31 AM.

  11. #11
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    Appreciate the input, guys.

    You may be right with your assumptions, Sicko, but I don't feel Martin is a guy to overcomplicate stuff as compared to so many of the other 'gurus'. FWIW, my last approaches with dieting have yielded me the best results in my training and I'm wondering if a low amount of cardio is part of the reason. The main difference for me is that I've been able to keep most of my strength (and probably mass) compared to other diets where I started losing strength already on week 1.

    Regardless, now that I'm at a low BF %, I might have to do some adjustments.

    FWIW, I probably gained a small amount of fat over Easter, but I got back into it and am now at my lowest BF % cycle. I think I'm still losing fat, but it's SLOOOW.

    I agree on cardio probably being needed, so I've added 2 intervals per week now.

    I am also considering if a keto approach would be beneficial for me now? I literally got only two-three pounds to lose before I'd be very happy.

    Visually, I look similar to MuscleScience except that I have less LBM. Maybe slightly higher BF %, but certainly in that ballpark. Visible upper abs, but still some fat on my stomach that blocks the full pack.
    Last edited by Renholder; 05-06-2017 at 09:49 AM.

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