Cutting When You're Fat

[bossfearless]

I'm probably just going to get flamed and trolled for even asking this question, but since I'm lost on how to begin a cutting program I need to throw this out there and hope I get some decent feedback.

Here's my problem: I'm crazy heavy. My metabolism was pretty terrible my whole life and I've always gained weight shockingly fast. Recently I started lifting heavy and, for once, I didn't stop. I built a ton of muscle, outlift everyone in my gym, but I still carry over 120 pounds of fat (6'4", ridiculously broad shouldered, endomorph, can't get a reliable bodyfat %). Now I want to try to start cutting that number down. It's a huge project to try to take on, and I'm lost. All the advice out there seems to revolve around the assumption that you're average size and you just need to lose 20 pounds or so.

In the past the only methods that seemed to work were extreme dieting and endless, miserable cardio, and even then all it did was turn me into a smaller, weaker fat person. I need advice for how to structure a cutting program that will let me drop significant fat but preserve all the muscle I've built. Obviously crash dieting is out of the question, since that will only kill my muscle and leave me back where I was before. But I also know that "1 pound a week" isn't a feasible model to follow at my size and with my slow metabolism.

Has anyone had any successes at such a high weight? Does anyone know anyone in my situation who had a method that worked for them?

[Couchlock]

I'm probably just going to get flamed and trolled for even asking this question, but since I'm lost on how to begin a cutting program I need to throw this out there and hope I get some decent feedback.

Here's my problem: I'm crazy heavy. My metabolism was pretty terrible my whole life and I've always gained weight shockingly fast. Recently I started lifting heavy and, for once, I didn't stop. I built a ton of muscle, outlift everyone in my gym, but I still carry over 120 pounds of fat (6'4", ridiculously broad shouldered, endomorph, can't get a reliable bodyfat %). Now I want to try to start cutting that number down. It's a huge project to try to take on, and I'm lost. All the advice out there seems to revolve around the assumption that you're average size and you just need to lose 20 pounds or so.

In the past the only methods that seemed to work were extreme dieting and endless, miserable cardio, and even then all it did was turn me into a smaller, weaker fat person. I need advice for how to structure a cutting program that will let me drop significant fat but preserve all the muscle I've built. Obviously crash dieting is out of the question, since that will only kill my muscle and leave me sback where I was before. But I also know that "1 pound a week" isn't a feasible model to follow at my size and with my slow metabolism.

Has anyone had any successes at such a high weight? Does anyone know anyone in my situation who had a method that worked for them?

So I'm assuming your at around 320 to 350?

[Back In Black]

Post your typical daily diet and anything extra you may have at the weekend.

Cardio has more benefits than weight loss.

[Rockclimber]

Myfitnesspal live and die by that app for 12 months. It's made all the difference in my diet

[KINGKONG]

Start logging your diet now first get a idea of macros and calories..that will give you a better idea of what you need to change..keep in mind your stature will always get smaller as you lose weight ..we can help but you gotta do the work..keep a log and be strict when the time comes and Iam sure you can preserve a good majority of lean mass..

[CharlesThe4th]

As somebody who has been in your shoes I do know what it's like. All you need to do is want it bad enough. I track my macros now. (If you're not familiar with tracking macros, spend some time on YouTube and research what it is) I tracked my macros, lifted and did cardio religiously. Frequently adjusting macro numbers and cardio times. Within a year I dropped near 100 pounds. Sure I lost some muscle but my goal was to get small and build my way back up. Instant gratification screwed me on some muscle but I've worked my way back up. Remember Rome wasnt built in a day. If you need any help with anything I'll be more than happy to help.

[RaginCajun]

great advice from all!

as they have mentioned, keep track in this log here and it will motivate you!

[Couchlock]

Pm me your stats and height weight

Ill show you how I dropped from 255 to 130 in 8 months

[RaginCajun]

Pm me your stats and height weight

Ill show you how I dropped from 255 to 130 in 8 months

damn!

[bossfearless]

Damn, looks like my previous reply never actually posted. Sorry for the late reply, I suppose it looked like I'd just wandered off (I suppose that's true, just went on vacation). Couple of quick replies to some questions I was asked:

Couchlockd: I weigh a *lot* more than 350. I'm not just a normal sized guy who got too fat. Thank you for the offer of assistance, I'll pm you my stats when I get a chance.

Rock climber: I'll take a look at MyFitnessPal, but I'm not optimistic there. Most apps only assume that you're a normal, average sized person.

Kingkong, RaginCajun, Charlesthe4th: it's difficult but sorta doable to track my macros here. I do understand the basic idea of cutting but what I was hoping to find was some advice on preserving muscle mass while I do it. As I mentioned in the OP, I got rid of a ton of weight several times but only ended up as a smaller fat person with no muscle left, just a hollow, flabby body that was smaller.

Back in Black:

My diet sucks right now, in fact it's just about laughable because I don't get to cook my own food often (maybe one day every other week where I can really cook in bulk). I work as a security contractor in Saudi Arabia, and that's 12.5 hour days, 7 days a week trapped at a desk. One day off every other week, usually. Lots of overtime money but terrible for my waistline. After work, I hit the gym for 1.5-2hrs, then I have just a couple hours remaining before I need to sleep. In that last couple hours I have to fit *everything* I'm trying to get done in a day (shower and hygiene, laundry, business, and God help me maybe a moment of leisure).

So here's my daily diet most of the time when I'm stuck eating from the dining facility (DFAC).

0600: 3 eggs, scrambled, 1 slice cheese, corned beef, potatoes (usually fried)
0900-1000: Greek yogurt or cottage cheese, maybe a piece of fruit
1200: usually chicken strips (fried, but not what you'd normally think) or chicken curry (a bit oily), usually with white rice.
1600: 2 scoops MP Combat protein with milk
1800: preworkout C4, then gym
2000: 2 scoops MP Combat protein with Milk, maybe something else if there's any food in the damn house.

Obviously there's some easy room for cuts. Kill the fried potatoes and the corned beef at breakfast, switch the eggs to a double order and lose the cheese. Maybe make a big batch of brown rice a couple nights a week, just set the rice cooker while I do other stuff, use that instead of white rice at lunch. The big problem is I have no way to predict or accurately track the portion sizes. Some days they're huge, some days they're small, it's all a toss up. I know that someone is gonna chime in with "something something sacrifices, something something discipline", but that's not the case here. It's a matter of inability to keep my nutrition reliable and constant.

I appreciate everyone's comments and I really look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

[RaginCajun]

stay safe out there! you have one busy ass schedule!

i see that you sit at a desk all the time, do you have or can you get a standing desk? it may look gay as hell but you can work in some body squats whilst working, i do it from time to time to fire the guys up at the office! since you are really busy, seems that you will have to cook in bulk if you have the ability to do so. can you buy a crockpot? do you have an oven? grill? answer for portion control, buy a food scale and bring it with you to work.

I do not think you are eating enough first of all, especially for someone who claims to be over 350. i eat more than that, and i only weigh 195. i bet you are hungry all the time. i do not like your last two meals being only protein powder, and you need some more veggies in there. you need some real food for your body to break down. use myfitnesspal for just logging foods, you do not have take its recommendations. you can customize it to fit your needs and goals.

quick question, how do you like to eat? do you like eating every couple of hours, or do you like eating bigger meals? the reason i ask, is that there are many ways to go about eating.

another thing, consistency and discipline work magic!!!

[Obs]

Pm me your stats and height weight

Ill show you how I dropped from 255 to 130 in 8 months

How do ypu accomplish that without crack?

[bossfearless]

stay safe out there! you have one busy ass schedule!

i see that you sit at a desk all the time, do you have or can you get a standing desk? it may look gay as hell but you can work in some body squats whilst working, i do it from time to time to fire the guys up at the office! since you are really busy, seems that you will have to cook in bulk if you have the ability to do so. can you buy a crockpot? do you have an oven? grill? answer for portion control, buy a food scale and bring it with you to work.

I do not think you are eating enough first of all, especially for someone who claims to be over 350. i eat more than that, and i only weigh 195. i bet you are hungry all the time. i do not like your last two meals being only protein powder, and you need some more veggies in there. you need some real food for your body to break down. use myfitnesspal for just logging foods, you do not have take its recommendations. you can customize it to fit your needs and goals.

quick question, how do you like to eat? do you like eating every couple of hours, or do you like eating bigger meals? the reason i ask, is that there are many ways to go about eating.

another thing, consistency and discipline work magic!!!

Man, I don't even know where to start with this. I mean, first off, thank you for the reply. But moving on to the rest of it...sweet Christmas. I can't put in a standing desk. Or replace my chair with an exercise ball. I already cook in bulk when I can cook. I have and also use a Crock-Pot and oven to good effect; I'm an excellent cook and I know how to cook healthy food. I know that I should eat more vegetables, but that's problematic here. Tainted produce has put me in the hurt locker a few times already, and everything out here rots staggeringly fast. There's a salad bar at the DFAC but wouldn't you know it, I'm shackled to my desk and all my food has to be delivered. I'm not trusting a bunch of Bengalis with unwashed hands to make me a salad. I've seen that movie and I know how it ends. Cooked food only.

Yes, I know I don't eat enough for someone who "claims" to be over 350. You know what? Fuck it. I weigh 420 pounds. I was ashamed to even post that number but I need to put that out there. No, I don't look like I weigh that much and people are often surprised by it. My frame is obnoxiously broad and I'm 6'3". I'm definitely fat, but not the kind of fat you'd think when you read that weight number. I don't eat nearly enough to weigh what I do, which is doubly unfair because not only *should* I weight less, but I don't even get the food-based satisfaction of a normal person who's eating enough to weigh as much as me. If I look at a sandwich I gain five pounds. Meanwhile my roommate is chowing down on pizzas and drenching everything in ranch dressing and never gaining weight. He gets to eat the way everyone assumes I eat, and I'm the one who gets fat.

Okay, that's enough complaining from me. When I get back from vacation I'm going to try and find some veggies that I can work in, depending on what's available (not much besides freaking corn).

[KINGKONG]

Boss have you ever considered keto?if you can get through the first three four days of hunger it's really a good way to lose bodyfat and preserve lean mass..420 lb is unhealthy brother I don't know a way to sugar coat that it's really important to start making some changes..I know you that and Iam sincerely not trying to be a jerk..I coached a guy through keto one time watched him drop 100lb in 6 monthes and preserve a good chunk of lean mass..I wish you the best bro keep your head up and get on it once you start losing the weight it will snowball into higher confidence and better health day by day..

[bossfearless]

Kingkong, what exactly do you consider "a good chunk" of his lean mass that he saved? If you drop 100 pounds in 6 months, you're chewing through your muscle, there's just no two ways about it. And yeah, I tried keto a long while ago and it was basically the same as any other low carb diet. It's miserable and it drops a ton of weight, but the moment I ate like a vaguely normal person again I gained back all my weight in a startlingly short amount of time. It's fucking frustrating as all hell, especially when you KNOW that there's no way in hell you actually ate anywhere near enough calories for your body to do that. It just does it on its own, doesn't matter how much you try to stop it.

[Obs]

Man, I don't even know where to start with this. I mean, first off, thank you for the reply. But moving on to the rest of it...sweet Christmas. I can't put in a standing desk. Or replace my chair with an exercise ball. I already cook in bulk when I can cook. I have and also use a Crock-Pot and oven to good effect; I'm an excellent cook and I know how to cook healthy food. I know that I should eat more vegetables, but that's problematic here. Tainted produce has put me in the hurt locker a few times already, and everything out here rots staggeringly fast. There's a salad bar at the DFAC but wouldn't you know it, I'm shackled to my desk and all my food has to be delivered. I'm not trusting a bunch of Bengalis with unwashed hands to make me a salad. I've seen that movie and I know how it ends. Cooked food only.

Yes, I know I don't eat enough for someone who "claims" to be over 350. You know what? Fuck it. I weigh 420 pounds. I was ashamed to even post that number but I need to put that out there. No, I don't look like I weigh that much and people are often surprised by it. My frame is obnoxiously broad and I'm 6'3". I'm definitely fat, but not the kind of fat you'd think when you read that weight number. I don't eat nearly enough to weigh what I do, which is doubly unfair because not only *should* I weight less, but I don't even get the food-based satisfaction of a normal person who's eating enough to weigh as much as me. If I look at a sandwich I gain five pounds. Meanwhile my roommate is chowing down on pizzas and drenching everything in ranch dressing and never gaining weight. He gets to eat the way everyone assumes I eat, and I'm the one who gets fat.

Okay, that's enough complaining from me. When I get back from vacation I'm going to try and find some veggies that I can work in, depending on what's available (not much besides freaking corn).

Kingkong, what exactly do you consider "a good chunk" of his lean mass that he saved? If you drop 100 pounds in 6 months, you're chewing through your muscle, there's just no two ways about it. And yeah, I tried keto a long while ago and it was basically the same as any other low carb diet. It's miserable and it drops a ton of weight, but the moment I ate like a vaguely normal person again I gained back all my weight in a startlingly short amount of time. It's fucking frustrating as all hell, especially when you KNOW that there's no way in hell you actually ate anywhere near enough calories for your body to do that. It just does it on its own, doesn't matter how much you try to stop it.

Eat like a normal person???
Wtf is a normal person?
You eat only what you can burn.
If you can't do it exactly like couchlokd did it, you are wasting your breath here. If you have a thyroid issue go to your doctor and you can get medication for it. You arent mystically producing fat out of calories you NEED .
Ho bad do you want it? That will determine if you achieve it. Pm couch, he knows more about it than anyone who posted here. He got where he is with hattred and anger and sadness toward his condition. Convert emotion to will power.
How mad, sad, or hateful does it make you?
Turn it all to drive.

[bossfearless]

Eat like a normal person???
Wtf is a normal person?
You eat only what you can burn.
If you can't do it exactly like couchlokd did it, you are wasting your breath here. If you have a thyroid issue go to your doctor and you can get medication for it. You arent mystically producing fat out of calories you NEED .
Ho bad do you want it? That will determine if you achieve it. Pm couch, he knows more about it than anyone who posted here. He got where he is with hattred and anger and sadness toward his condition. Convert emotion to will power.
How mad, sad, or hateful does it make you?
Turn it all to drive.

Oh for crying out loud, "you just gotta want it"? Like I don't want it, like I haven't been spending every spare moment in the gym and giving up everything else in life for the better part of a year now? Some people have metabolisms that suck ass. Get off your high horse, bruh.

And since you asked, it makes me angry and hateful enough to threaten to rip a flight attendant's arms and legs off because he mouthed off to me. He quickly reconsidered his place on the food chain.

[Obs]

Oh for crying out loud, "you just gotta want it"? Like I don't want it, like I haven't been spending every spare moment in the gym and giving up everything else in life for the better part of a year now? Some people have metabolisms that suck ass. Get off your high horse, bruh.

And since you asked, it makes me angry and hateful enough to threaten to rip a flight attendant's arms and legs off because he mouthed off to me. He quickly reconsidered his place on the food chain.

Nope quit your pussy ass excuse making and close your fucking mouth and do it or shut the fuck up. No one is going to tell you anything that helps here.
What do you want?
Do you want pity?
Did you come here looking for magic pills?
There aren't any.
You can do it or you will make excuses and fail because you fall into a little pity party.

[bossfearless]

Nope quit your pussy ass excuse making and close your fucking mouth and do it or shut the fuck up. No one is going to tell you anything that helps here.
What do you want?
Do you want pity?
Did you come here looking for magic pills?
There aren't any.
You can do it or you will make excuses and fail because you fall into a little pity party.

Learn to read, dumbass. I came here looking for exactly what I said in my first post. Advice on maintaining lean mass while doing an extensive cut. I don't want a damn thing besides that, including but not limited to your shitty attitude.

[Obs]

Learn to read, dumbass. I came here looking for exactly what I said in my first post. Advice on maintaining lean mass while doing an extensive cut. I don't want a damn thing besides that, including but not limited to your shitty attitude.

You have argued with everyone here to everything they said. Couchlokd has been here and you haven't tried to contact him have you?
This isn't burger king and you ain't getting it your way. Stop arguing with people trying to help. You got what you asked for and you argued with everyone.
Do you think someone is going to come here and say "Oh, you are pardoned... you cant help it, just stay fat"
Fuck no, they will and have told you the best they can, how to fix it. You clearly are looking for excuses and not actual advice.
Good luck, I am done here.

[KINGKONG]

Kingkong, what exactly do you consider "a good chunk" of his lean mass that he saved? If you drop 100 pounds in 6 months, you're chewing through your muscle, there's just no two ways about it. And yeah, I tried keto a long while ago and it was basically the same as any other low carb diet. It's miserable and it drops a ton of weight, but the moment I ate like a vaguely normal person again I gained back all my weight in a startlingly short amount of time. It's fucking frustrating as all hell, especially when you KNOW that there's no way in hell you actually ate anywhere near enough calories for your body to do that. It just does it on its own, doesn't matter how much you try to stop it.

you have to introduce carbs slowly and in phases..your body's natural reaction is to put on weight so you have to surprise it..he was still jacked after the weight loss point being is he looked 100 percent better..your gonna lose muscle when you lose that much weight there's no 2 ways about it the point is to minimize the muscle loss..

[bossfearless]

Hooray for forum trolls.

[bossfearless]

you have to introduce carbs slowly and in phases..your body's natural reaction is to put on weight so you have to surprise it..he was still jacked after the weight loss point being is he looked 100 percent better..your gonna lose muscle when you lose that much weight there's no 2 ways about it the point is to minimize the muscle loss..

Thanks, I might end up trying keto, even if only for a while, once I figure out where to get the test strips around here. Any ideas on how to go about minimizing the muscle loss? Sets/reps combinations during your workouts that might help with preservation? Anything specific to watch out for?

[Couchlock]

If you look forward to the gym, your not trying hard enough

Its going to be miserable,grueling, and painful. And hungry times ahead

[tarmyg]

Have you had blood work done? Thyroid and Test levels?

[bossfearless]

Have you had blood work done? Thyroid and Test levels?

I've had some blood work done but I don't think it's a very complete panel. It's hard to get any kind of in depth testing done for anything out here because the doctors don't really know what they're doing half the time. I go in to see a doctor and I tell them I want to get blood work done, check my hormone levels, and get an accurate body comp with dual energy. But immediately they refuse to do any of that and try to sign me up for gastric bypass surgery without any kind of preliminary examination. I try to get them back on track, lead them back to maaaayyyyybeeee ordering the tests I need, and they draw a line in the sand. It's surgery or nothing, because that's how they make the most money.

Anyway, what little bloodwork I've been able to get done was summarized as "everything is normal", but with no details and no paperwork they could give me. So, in other words, I don't know shit.

[bossfearless]

If you look forward to the gym, your not trying hard enough

Its going to be miserable,grueling, and painful. And hungry times ahead

These are all true statements.

[zyzzs]

Pm me your stats and height weight

Ill show you how I dropped from 255 to 130 in 8 months

Hey, brother. I sent you a PM. Hope you've received it!

[matt thebeard]

at 420 lbs my first worry would be hidden fat not the stuff you can see in the mirror, loosing some muscle mass when dieting is probably going to happen but carrying that sorta weight around is going to take its toll and that's the truth.

you need to do some of this hard work at your desk, and some in the kitchen, the rest will be in the gym, first off at 420lbs I would not recommend Keto, the last thing you need to be eating is cream trust me.

download myfitness app now, go to the stickies at the top of this page and read how to work our yout TDEE, yes your a big guy but I imagine you were a 10lb or less baby at some point so there is a normal human under there somewhere.

once you have your TDEE you have a ball park figure of the calories you need in a day, agreed the amount of food you've posted above is not enough and you will gain more fat if that continues.

don't bother with brown rice it tastes like shit and the difference in the two rice colours is negligible at best. get some decent quality meats be it chicken turkey etc and make up a shed load of rice and chicken meals (I use a little chicken soup to wet sometimes also chili sauce whatever floats your boat)

don't look for huge 20lb drops in one go, that weight didn't get on all in one month and it sure as hell isn't coming off in one month, I would imagine an 80 loss in a 12 month period to be a realistic goal anything above that Is a bonus but you have to stop thinking extreme is the way to go.

aim for two to three pounds a week to start, you will loose more than that to start with im sure but its going to slow down after the first month or so this doesn't mean you have stopped loosing fat it just means your body will be settling into slow steady fat loss as you have adjusted your calorie intake to a more monitored level, you should then aim for maybe 2lbs a week fat loss but slowly and consistenly over the weeks, this is what will help you maintain some of that muscle along with a pretty high protein level and some hard lifting. start tracking your activity, if you have an iphone there's a heart symbol on there and an activity tracker, you will need to aim for 10,000 steps a day every day (even weekends) this is easily achievable and will not involve killing yourself on a treadmill or elliptical sweating your tits off.

this all starts with you working out how many calories your lean self needs in a day and then tracking them, keeping protein pretty high and getting as much good whole foods as is possible for your location.

steamed veg might be an option for you? failing that vitamin suppliments where you cant get all you need, fresh fruit too.

as posted above loose the protein powders for now and get some real food in, eggs oats etc, oh yea stop eating cheese!!

[matt thebeard]

listen to this - 600lb guys experience

https://twitter.com/huwgarms/status/892668207760371713

[Couchlock]

How do ypu accomplish that without crack?

Rec talk....smh.

Like this

Wake up, eat a 100 cal egg white omelet and apple.

10 mile bike ride after food digests

Come back pre workout shake and small routine of super set curls and triceps over head extensions, 250 sit ups done in sets of 20-50

Lunch- 4 oz cooked chicken, 40g beans 1/2 cup brown rice.

About 2 hours later real gym session 5x5 routine or circuit.

Post workout shAke 30g protein, and some berries to get carbs at 2 to 1 to protein

2 hours later, same chicken meal

Digest food. Another 250 sit ups and curls (something anything to burn some cals)

And a nice cup of plain non fat Greek yogurt with apple before bed.

After a month of this you stop feeling hungry.

I was at max 1500 cals a day, I liked t be closet to 1300 but give or take a few hundred no big deal.

Between 8- 10 months I lost a ton of fat

I was out of work, and girl of ten years left.

Had lots of free time and reason to push on was to rub my new self in,that birches face.

[Obs]

Rec talk....smh.

Like this

Wake up, eat a 100 cal egg white omelet and apple.

10 mile bike ride after food digests

Come back pre workout shake and small routine of super set curls and triceps over head extensions, 250 sit ups done in sets of 20-50

Lunch- 4 oz cooked chicken, 40g beans 1/2 cup brown rice.

About 2 hours later real gym session 5x5 routine or circuit.

Post workout shAke 30g protein, and some berries to get carbs at 2 to 1 to protein

2 hours later, same chicken meal

Digest food. Another 250 sit ups and curls (something anything to burn some cals)

And a nice cup of plain non fat Greek yogurt with apple before bed.

After a month of this you stop feeling hungry.

I was at max 1500 cals a day, I liked t be closet to 1300 but give or take a few hundred no big deal.

Between 8- 10 months I lost a ton of fat

I was out of work, and girl of ten years left.

Had lots of free time and reason to push on was to rub my new self in,that birches face.

Thats awesome! Awesome like rec drugs!

[Couchlock]

I prefer wreck drugs