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Thread: Get to the bottom of this

  1. #1
    JuliusPleaser's Avatar
    JuliusPleaser is offline Senior Member
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    Get to the bottom of this

    Ok, so I have been "dieting" going by feel, and over the last year; I have gained 20lbs (222lb now) and have gotten stronger; look leaner than I was when I did an IIFYM diet at 200lbs, counting calories with MYP, and following a carb-cycling protocol. I am not counting calories and I am eating more whole foods than I was. We all know the TEF of different foods, but also, they have different hormonal effects, so a calorie is a calorie, but its not; because how the body RESPONDS to those calories is different. We all know none of us can build a solid muscular body eating 3000 calories of jolly ranchers vs 3000 calories of steak.

    I have been doing research and experimenting with different diets which show me that calories in vs calories out, is NOT the final picture when it comes to PERMENANT fat loss. Yes, it does work temporarily, but what ALWAYS happens? You gain it ALL back (sometimes more) because of your body's set point and the fact it WANTS to gain what it lost back. Also calorie deficit causes your metabolism to slow down and bla bla bla you know the story.

    When I experimented with Stan Efferding's vertical diet, I actually saw my body beome more efficient, being able to consume MORE steak and rice and remain where I was. Basically his diet is "training" your metabolism to be more efficient. There are researchers and doctors our there that don't believe the Calorie Theory is correct; what I am learning from these anti-calorie proponents (not that they believe calories don't matter, but is not the main problem) is that our metabolisms are NOT running efficiently and are damaged due to eating processed crap and fake foods. So, eating whole foods alone can dramatically change your body, this should be obvious to us.

    The research I have been doing has to do with a different theory about hormone and insulin manipulation for permanent fat loss that is sustainable. According to what I am reading, people are becoming insulin resistant because of the constant exposure to carbs, high blood sugar; storing more fat than they should be. The more insulin floating in your body, the more it becomes used to it and resistant to it. The idea is to lower insulin so we can tap into our fat stores and burn off the access weight. Type II diabetics have too much insulin, and yet they are proscribed insulin to take care of the issues, but it always makes things worse. There have been doctors like Dr. Jason Fung who has been fasting his patients, making their insulin go down after, allowing their body to burn off excess sugar and eventually getting them off their medication; curing them of their diabetes. Essentially, he lowers the carbs or makes them fast (both types of dieting I have tried) so the blood sugar can be used and insulin sensitivity is restored. And then there is proponents of Keto: There have been various people doing 5k (keto) challenges, of 5000+ calories of high fat and protein, gaining virtually nothing and sliming down. We all hear these stories. However, for a bodybuilder, keto will cause loss of muscle size via loss of glycogen and water, which is why we don't see many of them on zero carbs all the time or without refeeds.

    Now, this is a bodybuilding forum and most of the studies I have read had to do with normal people, obese people or diabetics, none of which were on juice and peptides. Also TRUE keto is way higher fat and lower protein than the bro-science keto most bodybuilders do, and studies have shown high protein is what keeps muscle mass, not ketones. I also know carbs are a bodybuilders best friend; yet even bodybuilders go through this gain and lose cycle all year round. Basically, even the on and off season is not permanent and sustainable fat loss, but, when one gains more tissue, the next time they cut, they will be bigger...so I'm logically concluding:

    The off season bodybuilder, if he has ENOUGH muscle on him, will be like 10% bodyfat. Abs are visible, he is lean, but he is not shredded. My goal is just that, 10%, visible abs, and I don't care to be shredded. In fact, being shredded isn't even sustainable for a bodybuilder or most people unless they're lucky to have great genetics and can somehow maintain 7% all year round. Even fitness models are usually not as lean until they diet down for a photoshoot. This to me is not permenant fat loss and is not a sustainable lifestyle. I want to just hit a new setpoint and stay there.

    So my thoughts are: Ok, I'm NOT gonna go into a calorie deficit again (at least purposely), instead, I'm going to manipulate my insulin with low carbs, eat more fat and high protein whole foods, and create a demand by increasing my work output (more gym sessions each body part 2x a week) and add more tissue so my body "costs more" to maintain.

    To summarize, if my goal is to just be 10% one day (over time, I'm probably 12-15% now similar to my avatar but bigger), do you agree with my strategy here? Add more tissue, body will recomp itself? People say only noobs can recomp but I basically just did over the last year by adding more size. This is essentially what I feel by intuition I need to do. Again, I don't' care if I am shredded, I want to live my life and enjoy it, I don't want to be counting calories; nor will I be needing to get ripped for shows or whatever. I workout and eat by 'feel' and I have been getting results. Essentially what I mean by that is I constantly cycle though different workout plans, but diets as well. Again, I'm going off the fact when I see an off-season bodybuilder, if he has "lean bulked" he looks great, and that's fine with me. My main goal is a sustainable, permenant change where I can enjoy food, my life and not keep yo-yoing like; especially when I am not a competitor or need to.

    I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
    Last edited by JuliusPleaser; 07-16-2018 at 06:08 PM.

  2. #2
    JuliusPleaser's Avatar
    JuliusPleaser is offline Senior Member
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    anyone?

  3. #3
    Couchlockd's Avatar
    Couchlockd is offline Senior Member
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    All sounds very well thought out and can't say anything negative about it, at least from my stand point

  4. #4
    MACKATTACK's Avatar
    MACKATTACK is offline EAT, TRAIN, REST
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    I am a HUGE advocate of WHOLE FOODS. I do no protein shakes, weight gainers....etc. All I eat is whole food that is pure and that I cook daily so its always fresh. Since making that change I have personally seen a huge change in my body complexity and also how I feel and look.

    Now this could be total bullshit, but I feel whole foods fill your muscles out better, make skin tighter...etc. The amount of crap out there in processed shit it can change skin color, hold water, not tighten skin....etc.

    My friend won all the national/world wide all natural divisions, never took drugs, nothing and is one of the biggest and most cut people I have ever seen. All he ate was whole foods and prepared them all himself. He is a diet Guru and deals with many high level competitors now (arnold, olympia). I have followed that protocol for the last 12 months and I have never looked and felt so good in my life. I get told all the time "you look so healthy" among other things but I was never told that in the past. Clear eyes, skin....etc comes into play for aesthetics in my opinion. Healthy skin is very important because it is the icing on the cake.

    I try to pass that information onto other people. People that have come back to me have thanked me thoroughly but then there are always the calorie in calorie out and in one ear and out the other, but those are also the people that don't look good all year round either.

    Btw Stan Efferding is the man I try to pass his videos to people all the time.........

  5. #5
    MACKATTACK's Avatar
    MACKATTACK is offline EAT, TRAIN, REST
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    Btw I think Keto is the new Atkins diet almost..........its a quick fix people try to use to lose fat and look better. But is it healthier? I don't think so. I think its a bandaid on a huge deep gash and ones you come off of Keto you may fluctuate back up. I try to promote the holistic approach of eating whole foods and getting into the lifestyle of just eating that way as suppose to trying "keto" or something else.

    Btw my buddy/coach is the one who put me onto Carb cycling years ago and its the only thing I would do to try and cut.
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  6. #6
    RaginCajun's Avatar
    RaginCajun is offline Pissing Excellence!
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    It has been proven that the more muscle mass you have, the more calories you will burn. Just think of it like a motor. The more valves a motor has on it, the more it needs gas to run more effectively.

    Bio pretty much eats this way, whole foods and what not. He knows his body so well and eats like a machine! Check his thread out in the Lounge.

    One thing that I battle is the ‘set point’ weight. Seems my body likes to stay around 185 and 20% body fat. I am a hard loser so to speak and my genetics definitely play a huge role!
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  7. #7
    JuliusPleaser's Avatar
    JuliusPleaser is offline Senior Member
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    Appreciate the feedback.

    I agree with the whole foods things; again, like I stated, I've been eating more fresh steaks and typically following Stans Diet with my occasional splurges. I think processed food does mess our bodies up and those calories aren't utilized properly.

    So it seems I am on the right track here, I just wanted to see if anyone else came to this same conclusion; that dieting hard to cut is utterly pointless unless you are competing or doing photoshoots; and that adding more tissue over time will make permanent fat loss happen due to the cost of the body to maintain it.

  8. #8
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Like RaginCajun mentioned "setpoints" can be a serious challenge, atleast for myself too. OP your first post makes a lot of sense and similar to my approach over last couple years. For me though I am a real calorie macro counter, I track everything to help keep me inline and honest. One thing I will say though holding a steady true 10% body fat is not going to be easy let alone possible for most especially without tracking food intake. Yes there are outliers but generally this would be very challenging for most.

  9. #9
    JuliusPleaser's Avatar
    JuliusPleaser is offline Senior Member
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    I agree wit the setpoints: I have been switching between LC and HC diets and my body will not go anywhere from 220-224lbs.

  10. #10
    Kay kay is offline Associate Member
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    I think you’re on the right track with hormones but insulin is not the demon people think. Supplementing exogenous insulin properly will make you leaner even though you’re consuming mass amounts of simple carbs as it will ramp up t4 to t3 conversion and increase feed efficiency. Whenever I use insulin in high doses frequently I lean out while gaining size.

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