How to simplify...??

[AlphaMindz]

Ok guys as many of you may already know, I've been putting a lot of effort into bulking as I successfully completed a recomp period and got my bf low enough and added enough muscle to create a good "starting point."

My ultimate goal is to compete in classic physique, possibly body building depending on my genetics and how big I can get (which is ironic considering the context of this post lol)....not sure which weight class I'd fall in cause I'm 6'2" so can't imagine it would be 212.. But I'm bringing that up because I have a LOT of size to still put on. I've made good gains in the past year or so BUT I'm starting to get discouraged here as I'm still lacking that MASS that Im after...

I have weeks where I'm eating good, getting plenty of cals, feeling strong in the gym, filling out my clothes more (I try not to focus on the number the scale says and use the mirror and my clothes to gauge growth), and overall just look bigger which motivates me and confirms to me that the hard work is paying off.

Then I have moments like last night....Stayed with family last night and hopped on the scale before taking a shower (regret doing that now lol) and was expecting to be around a certain number and the number that popped up was where I was at a month ago! WTF? Now granted it's not the scale I normally use, but I HAVE used that scale as well and last time I got on it (a few weeks ago) I was at the EXACT same weight...I'm very frustrated.

It doesn't even make sense because I'm bigger as it's visibly clear and my shirts agree lol. How can this be? The only thing that makes sense is I ate a bit lighter yesterday on purpose cause I feel like I've been driving a lot of cals and wanted to pull back yesterday so I can get a nice glycogen pump when I eat big today, and I'm guessing that I was holding 3-5 lbs LESS of water...(I should've been 3-5 lbs heavier) anyone??

For those of you that have been through this already and have achieved serious size how did you KEEP growing? I try to remain objective as I have made great progress....but now that I have the base that I wanted, it seems like my body doesn't wanna get any bigger.

I'm happy with the way my body looks (although I have put on some bf recently in an attempt to push through this plateau) but I'm not nearly big enough to compete, and that's my goal. I'm not doing this to just look good with my shirt off (although that is a great perk and there's nothing wrong with living this lifestyle for that reason) but I'm just clarifying that I'm serious about this and have clear goals in mind so when I hit a wall like this it's unbelievably frustrating to me!

So I'm asking the guys that have been through this and understand what I'm going through for some advice please. I recently started adding some dirty meals to my diet like a double quarter pounder with cheese (no onions, no pickles lol) and that has def filled me out (also stronger and getting better pumps) but how is it possible that I've filled out the way I have and weigh the fucking same lol..!? I'm seriously at a loss right now. It's gotta be a water issue..

But back to what I was saying, sorry I digress lol, what are some the things you guys did to deal with the mental aspect of this and more importantly (as I am very results oriented) WHAT did you guys do to push through these growth plateaus..?

It's prob time to rotate compounds again as I've been on test,eq and low dose winny for a while now. I should prob stop the eq and winny and jump back on tren and leave test where it is...Also, I need to SOMEHOW figure out a way to eat more food which I honestly don't think I can humanly shove more food down my throat lol so I'm not sure how I can do that...more shakes I guess..?

Anyway, wasn't intending on making this post so long, but I guess it kind of let me vent a little bit. Most people in my personal life wouldn't understand my frustration with this as they simply don't understand what we put into this. If I just need to be more patient that's fine, I just wanna make sure I'm not spinning my wheels cause the last thing I wanna do is waste my time. At 35 time is too valuable to me!

My goal was to be on a stage by next year..realistic? I thought so but if I keep hitting these plateaus I'm not so sure.. Ok gonna wrap it up as I could keep rambling. I appreciate your input guys/gals TIA.

[Windex]

The scale can be your best and worst friend at the same time - like you said water being the biggest factor. What I did for a long time was throw the scale out the window and limit weighing myself only when progress slowed and I needed to recalculate my TDEE. I now weigh myself only once per week, sunday morning on my non-training, non-cardio day. I do it first thing in the morning (fasted), no fluids yet, post morning washroom activities. It's consistent and removes the extra variables like sweating from training, water/food consumption, and anything yet to be eliminated to ye ol' mother nature. What's more important to me is the body measurements I track every sunday morning - Arms, quads, calves, waist, gut, and chest. If my waist or gut (for reference I use gut as circumference at the belly button) is down but say chest or legs are the same, then that's a win no matter what the scale says.

In terms of eating more food, couple of things:

(1) You can add 1000mcg/day Injectable Vitamin B12 and see if that boosts appetite

(2) Cut out any stimulants that might be supressing appetite

(3) Add butter or oil to your cooking and/or food. Easy 90-140 calories per tablespoon with healthy fat

(4) High calorie, low satiety food ; ie bacon, breakfast sausage, cheese, etc

(5) Replace lean protein with less lean. 93/7 beef becomes 80/20, top sirloin steak becomes ribeye, boneless/skinless chicken becomes chick thigh/liver/drumstick, fat free greek yogurt becomes 2-6% Milk Fat

(6) Upgrade your vegetables to be more caloric - Example: spinach, asparagus, and broccoli becomes carrots, squash, corn, peas, etc


I imagine if you sent pictures to the members who do compete (if they don't see this thread), they can give you feedback on what to expect for going on stage. You could also join the next transformation competition on the forums as an icebreaker. There might be some kind of hocus pocus Peptide/SARM, either individual or stack that helps with Ghrellin (Hunger hormone) - but Peptides/SARMs are not my cup of tea.

[Obs]

I would wager you are losing fat and adding quality lean mass.

Scale used to mean everything to me. I peaked at 235 and lost intersest in it. Since I have lost fat and held all mass.

I stopped looki g at it from a day to day and now I am only concerned in force feeding and training.
The scale will say what it will bit height per lbm per bf I am far bigger than anyone at my gym and that give me comfort withiut the scale.

Insulon helps too lol

[AlphaMindz]

The scale can be your best and worst friend at the same time - like you said water being the biggest factor. What I did for a long time was throw the scale out the window and limit weighing myself only when progress slowed and I needed to recalculate my TDEE. I now weigh myself only once per week, sunday morning on my non-training, non-cardio day. I do it first thing in the morning (fasted), no fluids yet, post morning washroom activities. It's consistent and removes the extra variables like sweating from training, water/food consumption, and anything yet to be eliminated to ye ol' mother nature. What's more important to me is the body measurements I track every sunday morning - Arms, quads, calves, waist, gut, and chest. If my waist or gut (for reference I use gut as circumference at the belly button) is down but say chest or legs are the same, then that's a win no matter what the scale says.

In terms of eating more food, couple of things:

(1) You can add 1000mcg/day Injectable Vitamin B12 and see if that boosts appetite

(2) Cut out any stimulants that might be supressing appetite

(3) Add butter or oil to your cooking and/or food. Easy 90-140 calories per tablespoon with healthy fat

(4) High calorie, low satiety food ; ie bacon, breakfast sausage, cheese, etc

(5) Replace lean protein with less lean. 93/7 beef becomes 80/20, top sirloin steak becomes ribeye, boneless/skinless chicken becomes chick thigh/liver/drumstick, fat free greek yogurt becomes 2-6% Milk Fat

(6) Upgrade your vegetables to be more caloric - Example: spinach, asparagus, and broccoli becomes carrots, squash, corn, peas, etc


I imagine if you sent pictures to the members who do compete (if they don't see this thread), they can give you feedback on what to expect for going on stage. You could also join the next transformation competition on the forums as an icebreaker. There might be some kind of hocus pocus Peptide/SARM, either individual or stack that helps with Ghrellin (Hunger hormone) - but Peptides/SARMs are not my cup of tea.

Hey bro thats some great feedback and much appreciated. I'm actually already doing/not doing most of the things you mentioned lol BUT I think I'm gonna give GHRP 6 a try as I'ver heard it really boosts appetite quite well. That's the main reason I ran EQ was for its appetite enhancement and it def was noticeably increased. And the b12 suggestion is also interesting to me... i give my girl b12 injections once per month as per her doctor, do you think it's increasing her appetite?? Never heard of that and would def be willing to give it a shot as I cold use the extra energy anyways lol.

[AlphaMindz]

I would wager you are losing fat and adding quality lean mass.

Scale used to mean everything to me. I peaked at 235 and lost intersest in it. Since I have lost fat and held all mass.

I stopped looki g at it from a day to day and now I am only concerned in force feeding and training.
The scale will say what it will bit height per lbm per bf I am far bigger than anyone at my gym and that give me comfort withiut the scale.

Insulon helps too lol

Yeah I guess you're right bro but is it possible to put on muscle AND lose fat simultaneously while eating in a surplus..??? I guess with gear the normal rules don't apply cause I know I'm growing but the scale doesn't seem to reflect that growth for some reason..

I should prob start only weighing myself every 2 weeks or so and like Windex mentioned do it at the same time in the am after my morning dump hehe..

Regarding insulin.... Whatchu know about that!? lol.....Do you think I'm at the point to start utilizing it? Shouldn't I be on hgh before starting slin..? Have you put on bf when using slin or does it just mega load your glycogen stores without spill over?? Sorry for the back to back questions but I've been considering this for a while.. Was talking to GH about setting up a protocol...even got a blood glucose monitor lol so I've been taking my morning fasted bloods which are perfect as of now but apparently after using hgh for a while my blood sugar may be high in the am....not on growth atm but wanna get back on,.

[GearHeaded]

My ultimate goal is to compete in classic physique, possibly body building depending on my genetics and how big I can get (which is ironic considering the context of this post lol)....not sure which weight class I'd fall in cause I'm 6'2" so can't imagine it would be 212.. .

in Amateur npc bodybuilding there is no such thing as a "212 class" , there is also no such thing as an "open class" . these are only at the Pro levels .
no matter if you did classic physique or bodybuilding , you would have to weigh into a certain weight class. with bodybuilding its weight class restricted only , with classic its both height and weight restricted.

[GearHeaded]

the answer your looking for in regards to the main point of your post though -- INSULIN , as well as other growth factors. your only responding so much to the anabolics , its time to introduce some new strategies and growth factors , imo

[AlphaMindz]

in Amateur npc bodybuilding there is no such thing as a "212 class" , there is also no such thing as an "open class" . these are only at the Pro levels .
no matter if you did classic physique or bodybuilding , you would have to weigh into a certain weight class. with bodybuilding its weight class restricted only , with classic its both height and weight restricted.

Gotcha, ok thanks. I have a lot to learn about how this all works and appreciate the info man!

[AlphaMindz]

the answer your looking for in regards to the main point of your post though -- INSULIN , as well as other growth factors. your only responding so much to the anabolics , its time to introduce some new strategies and growth factors , imo

I guess it's about that time then lol.

[GearHeaded]

I guess it's about that time then lol.

if you get serious , would be cool to do an Insulin use log on this forum so people can see what your doing and the results your getting.

[Obs]

Yeah I guess you're right bro but is it possible to put on muscle AND lose fat simultaneously while eating in a surplus..??? I guess with gear the normal rules don't apply cause I know I'm growing but the scale doesn't seem to reflect that growth for some reason..

I should prob start only weighing myself every 2 weeks or so and like Windex mentioned do it at the same time in the am after my morning dump hehe..

Regarding insulin.... Whatchu know about that!? lol.....Do you think I'm at the point to start utilizing it? Shouldn't I be on hgh before starting slin..? Have you put on bf when using slin or does it just mega load your glycogen stores without spill over?? Sorry for the back to back questions but I've been considering this for a while.. Was talking to GH about setting up a protocol...even got a blood glucose monitor lol so I've been taking my morning fasted bloods which are perfect as of now but apparently after using hgh for a while my blood sugar may be high in the am....not on growth atm but wanna get back on,.

I have put on a little fat with slin I believe you could benefit from it immensely at your stage. I run it without hgh but hgh would be awesome too.

On the surplus diet question and recomp yes you can but the process is slow and steady. It will always vary with the way you, individually, metaboolize food.

Btw I lost that added bodyfat already. I got my first stretch marks with the lowest bodyfat ever from doing incline presses with an ephedrine pump that was a little too tight.

My added fat with insulin came from pure simple lack of diet care. Yoy can lose fat on slin

[kelkel]

the answer your looking for in regards to the main point of your post though -- INSULIN , as well as other growth factors. your only responding so much to the anabolics , its time to introduce some new strategies and growth factors , imo

I gotta bite that bullet soon as well.....

[GearHeaded]

lots of guys don't believe you can add 10 pounds and get leaner with insulin use.. they think it just makes you fat. time to prove these doubters wrong

[Obs]

lots of guys don't believe you can add 10 pounds and get leaner with insulin use.. they think it just makes you fat. time to prove these doubters wrong

i already proved it. I added 10 and a couple lbs of fat because of my own lack of care but who cares.... I would take 10 lbs of fat for 10 lbs of muscle ony day.

Cutting aint shit. Bulking is the chore.

[Obs]

Damn that just got me thinking... If you threw 20lbs of anything on me I would look big as fuck. Give me half and half please!

[GearHeaded]

i already proved it. I added 10 and a couple lbs of fat because of my own lack of care but who cares.... I would take 10 lbs of fat for 10 lbs of muscle ony day.

Cutting aint shit. Bulking is the chore.

exactly . if you were that worried about adding fat with the insulin use (like a lot of pros are that already have the mass they want) then add some DNP to the mix but really its not needed, fat is easy to lose later on. getting that muscle is the hard part

[Obs]

exactly . if you were that worried about adding fat with the insulin use (like a lot of pros are that already have the mass they want) then add some DNP to the mix but really its not needed, fat is easy to lose later on. getting that muscle is the hard part

Try telling my gf that!
She gets all pissed that I eat fast food and she strays from her diet. I tell her I wish I had her problem and she should try adding the lean mass I have. Then she would understand why its always on my mind. Hers is not on her mind until she is hungry and they make pills for that.

[GearHeaded]

for AlphaMindz, heres just a few things insulin does for bodybuilding benefits.

- Nutrient partitioning
- Protein synthesis (those amino acids in the blood stream catch a ride into the cell via the carbohydrate when glucose is driven in by insulin)
- anti-catabolism (prevents muscle breakdown)
- Cortisol suppression
- lowers SHBG (frees up more test for muscle building)
- increases the conversion of T4 into T3 in the liver (fat loss plus nutrient absorption)
- Intercellular water retention (ie, osmotic super compensation) , which = more muscle
- glycogen loading , which = more strength , energy, and AtP production
- better pumps and muscle fullness
- increased appetite
- increase IGF production (especially if stacked with HGH or with AAS that are estrogenic)

I could probably go on. but all this GH has my fingers numb and typing is a chore

[HoldMyBeer]

if you get serious , would be cool to do an Insulin use log on this forum so people can see what your doing and the results your getting.

This

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[AlphaMindz]

Yeah after we spoke about it I started doing a lot of research. The way I am I like to get very familiar with something before I start experimenting with it and then I'll do low doses to see how my body responds, then if all goes well, I go all in!

I've watched quite a few videos with Milos Sarcev and I'm sure you know he's a huge proponent of insulin use. Palumbo argues against his views so I've heard some interesting debates on this topic.

The down side to insulin use, based on my understanding, is that it can make your physique look "blocky" and increase your waistline..?

I'm going for more of a classic physique look tbh BUT I know a lot of those guys use it as well so I'm guessing it's dose dependent.

I need to order more hgh and fuk it I'm gonna give it a shot. I bet the IGF-1 increase is INSANE on the combo! Would love to experience those kind of gains!

[Windex]

Hey bro thats some great feedback and much appreciated. I'm actually already doing/not doing most of the things you mentioned lol BUT I think I'm gonna give GHRP 6 a try as I'ver heard it really boosts appetite quite well. That's the main reason I ran EQ was for its appetite enhancement and it def was noticeably increased. And the b12 suggestion is also interesting to me... i give my girl b12 injections once per month as per her doctor, do you think it's increasing her appetite?? Never heard of that and would def be willing to give it a shot as I cold use the extra energy anyways lol.

Unsure of how B12 affects women. If you need to increase her appetite then have her burn more calories with more cowgirl and less missionary.

B12 @ 1000mcg per day helped me get over a couple of humps when my appetite crashed. Can't take any credit for the the idea, got it from Grandpa Marcus' mass cycles. It's dirt cheap too, at least in Canada. $7CAD for 10mL 1000mcg/mL so $21 for a 30 day supply or $16USD in your case.

Another option is to pimp your fluid intake - raw milk or full fat cream in your coffee, smoothies, some sugar in the water, etc.

Have you ever considered adding on Nandrolone or Tren to your TRT? I've cruised on Tren hex before and have been researching / considering adding in 100mg Nandrolone to my TRT.

[AlphaMindz]

Unsure of how B12 affects women. If you need to increase her appetite then have her burn more calories with more cowgirl and less missionary.

B12 @ 1000mcg per day helped me get over a couple of humps when my appetite crashed. Can't take any credit for the the idea, got it from Grandpa Marcus' mass cycles. It's dirt cheap too, at least in Canada. $7CAD for 10mL 1000mcg/mL so $21 for a 30 day supply or $16USD in your case.

Another option is to pimp your fluid intake - raw milk or full fat cream in your coffee, smoothies, some sugar in the water, etc.

Have you ever considered adding on Nandrolone or Tren to your TRT? I've cruised on Tren hex before and have been researching / considering adding in 100mg Nandrolone to my TRT.

Haha no no don't want her to eat more lol want to help her control food cravings and wondering if b12 is increasing her appetite! She already loves riding cowgirl so much I might as well buy her a cowboy hat lmao! But I agree that's a GREAT way to burn extra cals. I often have sore abs after we spend a night together which is ironic cause they don't even get sore when I do ab pull downs with fairly heavy weight (must be from lactic acid)..Thanks for the laugh that was good lol.

Anyway, I'm rotating compounds every few months while maintaining a test base and doing "resets" twice a year. That's my approach until I get to the size I wanna be. I have my work cut out for me! But yes I've used deca and I seem to be very sensitive to prolactin sides plus the last time I ran it I got severe acne on my back. It was horrific and to this day not exactly sure what caused it. It's possible it wasn't even the deca but maybe adding the deca created some imbalance and BOOM break out (and I don't mean just pimples dude I mean painful cystic acne so I'm a little concerned about having to deal with that again!).. Ironically I LOVE the way I feel on deca so I wish I didn't react that way to it..

I also get prolactin sides from tren although the last time I ran it I kept the dose low at 50mg eod and that was perfect! I got all the benefits with very little insomnia (only the first week or so) and no sexual sides, so I'm leaning towards rotating tren back into the regimen...

I have access to tren made in a legit facility so it's super clean BUT where the hell does one get tren hex from these days..?? Obs mentioned something about the dark web but I'm not tech savvy enough to figure that out lol..

[Obs]

Haha no no don't want her to eat more lol want to help her control food cravings and wondering if b12 is increasing her appetite! She already loves riding cowgirl so much I might as well buy her a cowboy hat lmao! But I agree that's a GREAT way to burn extra cals. I often have sore abs after we spend a night together which is ironic cause they don't even get sore when I do ab pull downs with fairly heavy weight (must be from lactic acid)..Thanks for the laugh that was good lol.

Anyway, I'm rotating compounds every few months while maintaining a test base and doing "resets" twice a year. That's my approach until I get to the size I wanna be. I have my work cut out for me! But yes I've used deca and I seem to be very sensitive to prolactin sides plus the last time I ran it I got severe acne on my back. It was horrific and to this day not exactly sure what caused it. It's possible it wasn't even the deca but maybe adding the deca created some imbalance and BOOM break out (and I don't mean just pimples dude I mean painful cystic acne so I'm a little concerned about having to deal with that again!).. Ironically I LOVE the way I feel on deca so I wish I didn't react that way to it..

I also get prolactin sides from tren although the last time I ran it I kept the dose low at 50mg eod and that was perfect! I got all the benefits with very little insomnia (only the first week or so) and no sexual sides, so I'm leaning towards rotating tren back into the regimen...

I have access to tren made in a legit facility so it's super clean BUT where the hell does one get tren hex from these days..?? Obs mentioned something about the dark web but I'm not tech savvy enough to figure that out lol..

I will pm you a place to a few sources on the open web

[AlphaMindz]

I will pm you a place to a few sources on the open web

Got it, thanks brotha!

[Family_guy]

Yeah I guess you're right bro but is it possible to put on muscle AND lose fat simultaneously while eating in a surplus..??? I guess with gear the normal rules don't apply cause I know I'm growing but the scale doesn't seem to reflect that growth for some reason..

I should prob start only weighing myself every 2 weeks or so and like Windex mentioned do it at the same time in the am after my morning dump hehe..

Regarding insulin.... Whatchu know about that!? lol.....Do you think I'm at the point to start utilizing it? Shouldn't I be on hgh before starting slin..? Have you put on bf when using slin or does it just mega load your glycogen stores without spill over?? Sorry for the back to back questions but I've been considering this for a while.. Was talking to GH about setting up a protocol...even got a blood glucose monitor lol so I've been taking my morning fasted bloods which are perfect as of now but apparently after using hgh for a while my blood sugar may be high in the am....not on growth atm but wanna get back on,.

Alpha it is definitely possible to lose fat and build muscle in caloric surplus. The same thing is happening to me and the scale was messing with me cuz I wasn’t gaining much or I was up and down cuz I was weighing every day. But I know for a fact that I’ve lost BF and gained muscle. use the scale as a tool but it’s not the only thing that determines progress.