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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    I disagree.
    I held my little girls hand when she was a tiny baby that could barely reach around my thumb. She taught me what love is.

    Any suffering is worth the cost of what I have experienced.

    That is why the light always wins. The scale is not even.
    I wonder if stars experience emotions. How the fuck does all this shit work? Why am I such an error of not only being a human, but also realizing these weird things? Was I a bad star in a past 50000000 year ago life?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    side note - who the hell got me so side tracked that I'm posting about vegan stuff more then I am about STEROIDS and getting jacked !!!
    Haha... Your having fun really
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    Plants absolutely are sentient, Wtf? The cacti example once again... Capsaicin is literally made by plants to keep animals off of them dude. Whatever your views are, just understand things must suffer and die for other things to survive and thrive.
    No plants have a CNS. Also i don't eat cacti, sounds disgusting.

    Again, more plants are used to feed livestock than humans, so even if they did feel pain by going vegan you would still reduce overall suffering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    No plants have a CNS. Also i don't eat cacti, sounds disgusting.

    Again, more plants are used to feed livestock than humans, so even if they did feel pain by going vegan you would still reduce overall suffering.
    In my own belief regarding the universe regulating itself you cant reduce suffering, you avoiding to cause pain here will cause more pain on some other star somewhere inconceivablly far away and so on. Maybe shooting a cow in the head will cause an equally positive reaction on a different earth. Its such a mindfuck to realize we are not supposed to understand any of these things whatsoever.
    Last edited by fiddlesticks; 01-11-2019 at 03:57 AM.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Never been to north Dakota…. But a quick google search and I’ve found several restaurants that serve vegan food… Which would indicate to me they can buy canned beans, rice and veggies from their local shops/markets.

    https://www.happycow.net/north_ameri.../north_dakota/
    Lol! Chris Knight has this one covered!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Actually plants to have a system that perceives "pain"

    Plants have a mechanism that gets activated when a bug pieces a leaf or mainstem. It's like an immune system

    Then you have the university study that took three identical growth Chambers, same RH%, temp, cow, grieing medium and fertilizer inputs. They placed a identical clone of tomato plant from same mother.

    One chanber was control, one had a speaker playing Hitler speeches, and the other had the Beatles.

    The Hitler plant was gangly, etoliated and in poor health and growing awat from speaker. The control was growing normally and the Beatles plant was bushier and had significantly more foliage than the control and was actually growing torwards the speaker

    If we also consider that the primary reason human and non-human animals feel pain is to alert us that we are in danger or are being hurt and that we need to escape the situation that we are in, a plant cannot move and thus any pain would be inescapable, making life torturous for any plant. Which begs the question, why would plants ever evolve such a horribly debilitating and destructive characteristic, as it goes against the fundamental purpose of evolution?

    I think part of where the confusion regarding plants and pain comes from is that it is true that they are alive and they conduct various activities at a cellular level, such as tilting to face the sunlight. In fact, plants are capable of doing some truly amazing things, but they do not conduct any activities at a conscious or cognitive level, in essence meaning that plants are not sentient.

    Plants react but they don’t respond. A venus fly trap shuts itself on to a fly, not because it is consciously aware that a fly has landed onto it, but because it reacts to the pressure stimuli caused when the fly lands onto it. This is why the venus flytrap will close around anything that triggers this response, including cigarettes butts. A cow on the other hand, won’t eat cigarette butts just because someone puts them in their mouth because a cow consciously responds.

  7. #87
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    To add on to the speed thing I said earlier, I fully believe if you were to mask the pain of existence it would simply be transferred to something else in one way or another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    In my own belief regarding the universe regulating itself you cant reduce suffering, you avoiding to cause pain here will cause more pain on some other star somewhere inconceivablly far away and so on. Maybe shooting a cow in the head will cause an equally positive reaction on a different earth. Its such a mindfuck to realize we are not supposed to understand any of these things whatsoever.
    Why does it have to be on an another planet?
    I was raised religious. The things I belive have to be thought on many years but they apply to all religions.

    Facts no one can deny....

    Forgiveness is devine
    Love is life and the light
    Positivity is love
    Negativity is hatred


    The rest would take years to explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Why does it have to be on an another planet?
    I was raised religious. The things I belive have to be thought on many years but they apply to all religions.

    Facts no one can deny....

    Forgiveness is devine
    Love is life and the light
    Positivity is love
    Negativity is hatred


    The rest would take years to explain.
    Doesnt have to be another planet but I believe the universe regulates itself as a whole, I don't think it has "regions" per se. Us silly mortals on this site putting unnatural chemicals into our body with artificially impossibly sharp tools never ment to exist are cheating this system on such a mind blowing level i don't even know how to describe. Not just defying human nature, it goes far, far beyond that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    your missing a huge fundamental religious point here. God created animals with one of their very purposes of existing being just so that we humans could kill them (even for the purpose of not surviving, but merely for the pleasure of smearing the animals blood on the alter to worship god). when the carcass of the animal was burned and their flesh burned up and smoke raised up into the heavens, god breathed in the scent of the dead flesh and was satisfied.
    thats what he made the animals for (not for pets and not for zoos)

    as cruel as that may sound to you. thats the religious reality of nearly every major religion across the globe since the history of the world.

    this may be odd to you (but your the odd one here because their is a church, a temple, a place of worship on every street corner right along side the steak house on every street corner as well. this is the inescapable world you happen to live in.

    I get that you don't like that the sky happens to be blue and the world happens to be a globe, but thats the reality of your existence.
    you can chose to not look at the blue sky just like you can chose not to eat normal food (ie, meat), but that doesn't change the reality in which you exist.

    you live in a meat eaters world in which exists a God that created the world for meat eaters to exist and rule
    for a vegan world to work and exist, it would have to done so under another 'god' and another universe and whole different plain of existence and dimension.

    ok, this debate is getting deep

    note: and your the one that brought up morality by asking me for moral justification for eating a can of tuna. now you can't go dismissing the idea of religion on me now in regards to the context of morality, that would be like dismissing gravity when discussing the idea of flying
    No no… Lets keep it deep, its better that way!

    I love the blue sky and the foundation of our planet, its beautiful which is why I do all I can to avoid destroying it!

    Using religion is still not a moral justification… its nothing like gravity, we are a part of gravity, we need gravity.. I don’t need to believe in a book and a book without any real sources? We are here and now, these animals are here and now, we can see the impact its having here and now, go to a slaughter house or factory farm and witness the injustice happening here and now.

    We claim to be incredibly grateful for the planet and all of the life that he has created, yet we are destroying everything he made for us right in front of him. He created non-human animals and we say thank you to him everyday by driving them to extinction and killing them by the trillions. We have even genetically modified his creatures, in essence playing God ourselves, because the creatures he created for us weren’t suitable for what we wanted from them. Furthermore, we go against God’s wishes by taking the milk from mothers that he designed specifically for their children.

    In what reality would a God be happy that we forcibly impregnate his creatures and take their babies away from them just so that we can take something that he didn’t design for us in the first place? In what reality do we think that a God would be happy about us murdering his creatures when it serves absolutely no necessity? How can a God be pleased with us destroying the beautiful rainforests that he spent time creating just so we can produce more cattle that we then needlessly slaughter?

    Furthermore, in Genesis the Bible states: "And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.”.

    Amos 6:4-7 states: “Woe to those who stretch themselves upon their couches and eat lambs from the flock and calves from the midst of the stall. They shall be the first to be exiled.”.

    Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 3:19 states: “For what happens to people also happens to animals—a single event happens to them: just as someone dies, so does the other. In fact, they all breathe the same way, so that a human being has no superiority over an animal.”.

    There are a multitude of passages from the Bible and indeed in the teachings of all the mainstream religions that further reinforce the idea that no religion mandates the consumption or exploitation of animals.

    Do slaughterhouses look like the work of Jesus or the Devil?

    Hell is described as a place of eternal suffering, torment and pain and yet all you have to do is watch slaughterhouse footage to see that they too are places of eternal suffering, torment and pain. For the animals, a slaughterhouse is hell and no benevolent God or prophet could ever condone what happens inside them.

    Standard practice in industrial farming across Europe, US, AUS.

    Its 4 minutes of your life, watch the video!

    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-11-2019 at 09:07 AM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    If we also consider that the primary reason human and non-human animals feel pain is to alert us that we are in danger or are being hurt and that we need to escape the situation that we are in, a plant cannot move and thus any pain would be inescapable, making life torturous for any plant. Which begs the question, why would plants ever evolve such a horribly debilitating and destructive characteristic, as it goes against the fundamental purpose of evolution?

    I think part of where the confusion regarding plants and pain comes from is that it is true that they are alive and they conduct various activities at a cellular level, such as tilting to face the sunlight. In fact, plants are capable of doing some truly amazing things, but they do not conduct any activities at a conscious or cognitive level, in essence meaning that plants are not sentient.

    Plants react but they don’t respond. A venus fly trap shuts itself on to a fly, not because it is consciously aware that a fly has landed onto it, but because it reacts to the pressure stimuli caused when the fly lands onto it. This is why the venus flytrap will close around anything that triggers this response, including cigarettes butts. A cow on the other hand, won’t eat cigarette butts just because someone puts them in their mouth because a cow consciously responds.
    I have Worked 1000's. Of head of cattle over many years. I wrote a thread on one of them.

    Empathy
    Love
    Compassion

    These are things only one life form can understand fully. Make all the assumptions about other stars and planets you want. We are it though. This bitch was made for us.

    Science adds shit in hypothetical possibilities that do not exist. Much the way you see religious folk.

    God damn! That was a good quote!

    I am such a badass.

  12. #92
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    Is anyone jerking off to the shit they just said?

    If not Then I win.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Is anyone jerking off to the shit they just said?

    If not Then I win.
    Nope im just reverting back to basically pretending nothing complex happened at all and I'm gonna drink some milk and probably do other things not accepted by religion lol. TBH i fucking hate "existence thoughts", too depressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I would say 90% of hunters hunt for the thrill and enjoyment of killing the animal then they do soly hunting for meat/food.

    you personally may not agree with this. but its human nature none the less. even apart from needing animals for food, we've killed them for pleasure, clothing, religious worship, brotherly bonding, etc..

    I personally may not find pleasure in this either. but I'm surely not going dismiss the reality of this truth and that its the world we have always lived in.

    heck one of the greatest wonders of the world was King Herods temple in Jerusalem . people used to travel to it from all corners of the earth just so they too could bring an animal to be killed there for religious worship.. thousands and thousands of animals were killed every single day hour after hour for decades on end. and it was considered a glorious place and wonder of the world (even though it was a slaughter house).
    ^ that humans would take pride in this place (from all cultures, races, and various religions) showed that mankind had a common bond with each other as 'meat eaters' and animal slayers.

    you just can't stick your head in the sand and dismiss that this is mankind the reality and how we've always been and still are today.

    have we evolved from this temple in Jerusalem / animal slaughter house ??? ummm , no probably not , in fact we probably kill way more animals now then we even did back then
    Yeah sure, hunters hunt as part of a sport. Of course I don’t agree with it, and it’s not human nature… We don’t hunt down these animals with our bare hands, Jesus.. they would kick our ass. We use “technology” to take them down, there’s nothing natural about that! Let’s go back to you living off the land, how are you going to kill your animals, you certainly won’t be killing bears.. I guess a few hogs with a knife you’ve forged out of rock or something? That’s real hunting, these pussys using guns.. where’s the challenge in that?

    I don’t agree with it, but to you guys who think your manly for doing so, then do it properly with a blade and your bare hands, fight the animal to death that’s what REAL wild animals do!

    World we have always lived in, again.. the world can change, not long ago slavery was normal? That is real fucked up. Things change.

    Your still kinda using religion and tradition as your justification.

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    Hey ill dumb down the convo to an acceptable level for this site:


    Judging by your profile pic you need milk and lots of it. Whole vegan thing ain't doing much in the gains department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Btw traditions and the variances of such in the bible were described and explained well in the verses I posted. Christians are not to judge those who think eating meat is wrong or to cast them out.

    Btw... What about male genital mutilation?
    Circucision is what started pauls discussion on veganism in the bible.

    We are not to cast people out for their traditions...
    Understand why now?
    But a tradition is not a justification, we had plenty of traditions that where real fucked that of which if we where to carry out now we would go to prison.

    To apply this argument to another scenario where non-human animals are the ones affected, bullfighting is very much considered a tradition as is the slaughter of dolphins in Taiji, but does that mean that these things should still continue?

    The Yulin Dog Meat Festival and the Boknal Dog Meat Festival are both annual events where thousands of dogs and cats are killed and eaten, they are both traditional events and yet throughout the western world we voice our disgust at these festivals.

    The Yulin dog meat festival is traditional, does that make it okay to butcher and kill dogs and cats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    Doesnt have to be another planet but I believe the universe regulates itself as a whole, I don't think it has "regions" per se. Us silly mortals on this site putting unnatural chemicals into our body with artificially impossibly sharp tools never ment to exist are cheating this system on such a mind blowing level i don't even know how to describe. Not just defying human nature, it goes far, far beyond that.
    The system is God. We are just sensors.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    But a tradition is not a justification, we had plenty of traditions that where real fucked that of which if we where to carry out now we would go to prison.

    To apply this argument to another scenario where non-human animals are the ones affected, bullfighting is very much considered a tradition as is the slaughter of dolphins in Taiji, but does that mean that these things should still continue?

    The Yulin Dog Meat Festival and the Boknal Dog Meat Festival are both annual events where thousands of dogs and cats are killed and eaten, they are both traditional events and yet throughout the western world we voice our disgust at these festivals.

    The Yulin dog meat festival is traditional, does that make it okay to butcher and kill dogs and cats?
    We are all criminals in someomes eyes. Juicers are above and beyond blatant criminals in my country.

    Some cultures do weird shit I do not understand.
    A dog or cat is no human no matter how much society portrays them as people.

    Not my place to judge.
    I dont judge vegans or carnivores.


    You start chowing down on humans and I have a 12 ga waiting

    Also some cultures are pure evil imo.

    Like I said, God said those who are cruel to animals are wicked.
    Last edited by Obs; 01-11-2019 at 04:34 AM.

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    So as usual thanks to milk another universal-level crisis has been solved. All this discussion began due to a severe deficiency of milk.

    Everyone wins with milk! No animals die, the plants that supposedly dont give a shit that they are being killed get ...killed and we get gains!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    I have Worked 1000's. Of head of cattle over many years. I wrote a thread on one of them.

    Empathy
    Love
    Compassion

    These are things only one life form can understand fully. Make all the assumptions about other stars and planets you want. We are it though. This bitch was made for us.

    Science adds shit in hypothetical possibilities that do not exist. Much the way you see religious folk.

    God damn! That was a good quote!

    I am such a badass.
    Where’s the empathy, love and compassion when the knife is sliced across the animals throat?

    Let’s say we treat a human with empathy, love and compassion.. Because we did, does that mean its justifiable to torture them? You can use that same logic and apply it to various situations, yet the action wouldn’t be justified.

    I have a dog give it tons of love, compassion and empathy. But every night id spend 90 minutes torturing the dog for fun…. Does that make it ok?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    We are all criminals in someomes eyes. Juicers are above and beyond blatant criminals in my country.

    Some cultures do weird shit I do not understand.
    A dog or cat is no human no matter how much society portrays them as people.

    Not my place to judge.
    I dont judge vegans or carnivores.


    You start chowing down on humans and I have a 12 ga waiting

    Also some cultures are pure evil imo.

    Like I said, God said those who are cruel to animals are wicked.
    But as a juicer you’re not causing harm to anyone but yourself.

    They certainty aren’t human, but we love them and wouldn’t hurt them. They hold traits similar to ourselves such as love and affection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Where’s the empathy, love and compassion when the knife is sliced across the animals throat?

    Let’s say we treat a human with empathy, love and compassion.. Because we did, does that mean its justifiable to torture them? You can use that same logic and apply it to various situations, yet the action wouldn’t be justified.

    I have a dog give it tons of love, compassion and empathy. But every night id spend 90 minutes torturing the dog for fun…. Does that make it ok?
    Where is the love and compassion when you allow a whitetail dear to starve for two months and be eaten asshole first for an hour by coyotes rather than be dispatched by a rifle in 30 seconds?
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    Eduke your logic is flawed.
    I have explained this all twice at least.

    You apparently think hospice visits cattle and deer in nature and euthanizes them.

    The best way to die is at the hands of the most effective PREDATOR (EYES FRONT) ON EARTH.

    MOTHER FUCKING HUMANS.

    AMEN HALLE FALLUJIA
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    All I know is if someone wants to go super saiyan they better be drinking a fuck ton of milk. Fuck whatever the original topic was lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Where is the love and compassion when you allow a whitetail dear to starve for two months and be eaten asshole first for an hour by coyotes rather than be dispatched by a rifle in 30 seconds?
    Its about doing everything in your power to decrease the harm and suffering of animals, i cant go to Africa and stop the lions from doing what they need to do to survive, as id do the same in their shoes... Same as the coyotes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Eduke your logic is flawed.
    I have explained this all twice at least.

    You apparently think hospice visits cattle and deer in nature and euthanizes them.

    The best way to die is at the hands of the most effective PREDATOR (EYES FRONT) ON EARTH.

    MOTHER FUCKING HUMANS.

    AMEN HALLE FALLUJIA
    There has not been one logical inconsistency in my arguments nor are they weak.

    Please quote on where you debunked me?

    Saying "this bitch is for us" or "some cultures do weird shit" isn't debunking anything i said lol
    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-11-2019 at 05:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    You apparently think hospice visits cattle and deer in nature and euthanizes them.
    Also, where did i say this?

  28. #108
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    Again guys, no hard feelings... Its always a hit when someone questions your beliefs or traditions. Jeez, i ate meat for 21 years (now 25 nearly 26) when i was first questioned in my eating habits it was difficult to open up and not turn a blind eye. But i couldn't find a moral justification for me to carry on consuming the flesh of animals without an inconsistency in my logic.

    Either way, I hope your enjoying this little debate as much as i am!

    Keep em coming
    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-11-2019 at 09:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    If we also consider that the primary reason human and non-human animals feel pain is to alert us that we are in danger or are being hurt and that we need to escape the situation that we are in, a plant cannot move and thus any pain would be inescapable, making life torturous for any plant. Which begs the question, why would plants ever evolve such a horribly debilitating and destructive characteristic, as it goes against the fundamental purpose of evolution?

    I think part of where the confusion regarding plants and pain comes from is that it is true that they are alive and they conduct various activities at a cellular level, such as tilting to face the sunlight. In fact, plants are capable of doing some truly amazing things, but they do not conduct any activities at a conscious or cognitive level, in essence meaning that plants are not sentient.

    Plants react but they don’t respond. A venus fly trap shuts itself on to a fly, not because it is consciously aware that a fly has landed onto it, but because it reacts to the pressure stimuli caused when the fly lands onto it. This is why the venus flytrap will close around anything that triggers this response, including cigarettes butts. A cow on the other hand, won’t eat cigarette butts just because someone puts them in their mouth because a cow consciously responds.
    Maybe plsnts aren't as far along the evolutionary process as we are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT View Post
    That potatoes looks yummy lol no joke

    Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

    My son (16) works part time at a Texas Roadhouse. Therefore parents get 30% off all food there. I'm now a frequent flyer. Their steaks are awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Again guys, no hard feelings... Its always a hit when someone questions your beliefs or traditions. Jeez, i ate meat for 21 years (now 25 nearly 26) when i was first questioned in my eating habits it was difficult to open up and not turn a blind eye. But i couldn't find a moral justification for me to carry on consuming the flesh of animals without an inconsistency in my logic.

    Either way, I hope your enjoying this little debate as much as i am!

    Keep em coming
    Being a vegan , I catch shit all the time but I never preach or try and make people do it , I just announce some benefits.

    People do turn a blind eye on what's going on with how animals are treated and it does make me sick .

    I hope everyone has a great weekend .



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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT View Post
    Being a vegan , I catch shit all the time but I never preach or try and make people do it , I just announce some benefits.

    People do turn a blind eye on what's going on with how animals are treated and it does make me sick .

    I hope everyone has a great weekend .



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    Absolutely, and neither do I. But in instances like this, ill always fight my corner!!

    You too Pal!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Vegans see eating meat as selfish and immoral behaviour. .
    this is where the debate pretty much ends. people who believe things that are perfectly normal and common to life and human existence, as being immoral behavior (like its immoral for me to breath air), is just completely irrational and beyond reason.
    like I said, vegan moralists, flat earthers, and reptile alien people, are in a very very very small minority of people that have ideas and values that are not really reasonable.


    debating nutriition and wither a vegan diet is more healthy or less healthy then a diet consuming meat is one thing. but when someone thinks another person is an immoral selfish sinner because of his food choices , thats where people lean towards being a little crazy (or brainwashed from some cult ideology).

    perhaps your right though, and a space ship will come and take you away to a vegan utopia where such sinful people do not exist and rule the world . you and the 12 other people on earth that believe that way can live happily ever after with your furry friends

    and we'll all stay behind down here on planet earth and continue to be normal and eat our meat
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    this is where the debate pretty much ends. people who believe things that are perfectly normal and common to life and human existence, as being immoral behavior (like its immoral for me to breath air), is just completely irrational and beyond reason.
    like I said, vegan moralists, flat earthers, and reptile alien people, are in a very very very small minority of people that have ideas and values that are not really reasonable.


    debating nutriition and wither a vegan diet is more healthy or less healthy then a diet consuming meat is one thing. but when someone thinks another person is an immoral selfish sinner because of his food choices , thats where people lean towards being a little crazy (or brainwashed from some cult ideology).

    perhaps your right though, and a space ship will come and take you away to a vegan utopia where such sinful people do not exist and rule the world . you and the 12 other people on earth that believe that way can live happily ever after with your furry friends

    and we'll all stay behind down here on planet earth and continue to be normal and eat our meat
    Who said its immoral for you to breathe air? Nothing immoral about that, no one is harmed in the process.

    Where do the ideas become unreasonable and why?

    Certainly not crazy, I could say you’re crazy for contributing to the 56 billion animals per year being slaughtered combined with the issues this is causing our planet.

    Haha, think I’ll skip the spaceship trip would rather stay here and witness the growth in the veganism movement!

    One day we will all be vegan, may well still be eating meat but it will be grown in labs, industrial farming is not sustainable, I am sure that’s something we can agree on?

    Also I appreciate you sticking with me on this, most people walk away without actually trying to formulate answers. Always important to have discussion, never thought it would be on a steroid forum though lol

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    Also flat earthers and vegans.

    Two very different people, i don't believe its flat.

    There is no evidence that the earth is flat.

    There is evidence showing the negative impact we are having on this planet, and there's evidence that animals are sentient, feel pain and suffer.

    Also more than 12 of us, 2 million currently in UK alone and its growing at around 1000% per year.. (UK stats for veganism)

    Edit:1000% last year obviously this percentage will decrease as more people change their eating habits
    Last edited by Eduke93; 01-11-2019 at 11:12 AM.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Who said its immoral for you to breathe air? Nothing immoral about that, no one is harmed in the process.

    Where do the ideas become unreasonable and why?
    IF I'm a white man and I'm debating with a black man about the existence of mankind for example, and we debate science and evolution, that is one thing . but if he suddenly pulls out the moral card and says "well because your white your a son of the devil and a sinner" , then thats where things become very unreasonable. even if he whole heartedly believes that white men are not human and are from the devil. thats fine. but his moral judgment on me for being white has no place in any reasonable debate.
    I personally will disagree with this man and come to the conclusion that he is a bit of a whack job for having such an extreme and far fetched view.


    so sure , you may think I'm a selfish and immoral sinner for eating a can of tuna (its your right to believe anything you want), but I also may believe that is unreasonable in any debate and that you may be a bit 'out there' and 'whacky' for even having such views.

    one thing your dismissing here is 'social convention' and 'social norms' -- wither you like it or not you live on a ball of dirt with billions of other people and its 'social convention' and common beliefs of the majorities of people in general that dictate whats considered "normal" or ok behavior or not.
    this is just how it is . if 99% of the population of earth happens to walk on their feet upright, then this is going to be taken as normal and acceptable. if some rare tribe of people are the 1% that happen to walk on their hands, then they may be right in their own eyes, but in the big picture of human kind, they are the oddballs and they would be wrong to condemn 99% of the rest of the people and consider them immoral for being 'normal' and walking on their feet.
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-11-2019 at 11:21 AM.

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    Oh, make no mistake, it's flat as a pancake.

    I'm a once vegetarian now omnivore who believes the Earth is flat as well as believe plants have feelings.

    I enjoy all things food. Cows, chickens, chicken embryos, broccoli, kale, veggies and fish.

    I've said this before too, if I could I'd like to try human meat from an ifbb pro. I used to tell my dad when I was 12, that if he ever died, I'd eat his triceps and pecs before I call the meat wagon.

    Yes, I'm the total package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Also flat earthers and vegans.

    Two very different people, i don't believe its flat.

    There is no evidence that the earth is flat.

    There is evidence showing the negative impact we are having on this planet, and there's evidence that animals are sentient, feel pain and suffer.

    Also more than 12 of us, 2 million currently in UK alone and its growing at around 1000% per year.. (UK stats for veganism)
    I did not compare "flat earthers" to "vegans" -- I compared "flat earthers" to "vegan MORALISTS" .. big difference. being vegan as simply a way of eating is one thing, but having far out there vegan idealogies and moral stands is a whole other thing all together (I know plenty of vegans who eat that way for their diet, and have no moral stand and do not think I'm immoral for eating meat)


    your statistics are counting veganism as a whole and a way of eating . again, vegan idealogy and vegan moralists are a very rare sub cult of vegans.
    its no different then some rare Christian cult and their whack job beleifs claiming they are the true representation of all of Christianity (billions of people), when the cult is really just a few hundred whack jobs that have went off the deep end.


    I'm totally fine with people going vegan in their diet (more meat for me) I think they are completely within reason. but 'vegan moralism" is a whole different thing and is essentially a religion and a world view, and not a nutrition debate or stand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    IF I'm a white man and I'm debating with a black man about the existence of mankind for example, and we debate science and evolution, that is one thing . but if he suddenly pulls out the moral card and says "well because your white your a son of the devil and a sinner" , then thats where things become very unreasonable. even if he whole heatedly believes that white men are not human and are from the devil. thats fine. but his moral judgment on me for being white has no place in any reasonable debate.
    I personally will disagree with this man and come to the conclusion that he is a bit of a whack job for having such an extreme and far fetched view.


    so sure , you may think I'm a selfish and immoral sinner for eating a can of tuna (its your right to believe anything you want), but I also may believe that is unreasonable in any debate and that you may be a bit 'out there' and 'whacky' for even having such views.

    one thing your dismissing here is 'social convention' and 'social norms' -- wither you like it or not you live on a ball of dirt with billions of other people and its 'social convention' and common beliefs of the majorities of people in general that dictate whats considered "normal" or ok behavior or not.
    this is just how it is . if 99% of the population of earth happens to walk on their feet upright, then this is going to be taken as normal and acceptable. if some rare tribe of people are the 1% that happen to walk on their hands, then they may be right in their own eyes, but in the big picture of human kind, they are the oddballs and they would be wrong to condemn 99% of the rest of the people and consider them immoral for being 'normal' and walking on their feet.
    But that scenario wouldn’t apply to this debate, because there is a victim involved in our conversation, the animal. You will both walk away after this strange conversation with no harm done whereas the animals will continue to be slaughtered.

    So you think I’m extreme or whacky?

    No longer do I eat death, no longer does my food come from animals that screamed in pain as they were murdered. No longer am I eating foods that are the product of enslavement and torture. Those things sound extreme…Not fruits, vegetables, seeds, grains, legumes, nuts, potatoes, etc - foods that grow naturally and that don’t scream in agony. How can a vegan diet be extreme, when it consists of eating foods that prevent and cure disease, foods that increase the longevity of our lives, foods that give us more energy and help us to live more harmoniously with animals?

    Of course, and I understand we live on a planet and the norm is based on the majorities belief… But change has to start somewhere and all because its deemed normal doesn’t mean its ok to do it… again some cultures do fucked up things that us in the west wouldn’t see as normal.

    Your comparing these silly scenarios like people walking on their hands, it’s not the same at all! Again there’s no victim in that scenario nor is hurting the planet! Them people walking on their hands seeing the 99% as immoral because they aren’t the same again is laughable, of course the 99% isn’t immoral. They would be immoral if they beat the 1% for walking on their hands…

    Like its immoral to beat animals when there is no need to do so

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Them people walking on their hands seeing the 99% as immoral because they aren’t the same again is laughable, of course the 99% isn’t immoral.
    yeah I know.. that sounds totally whacky that those people would think the other people are immoral for doing what is perfectly natural and normal to them.

    thats why also to me it sounds totally whacky for a vegan to think a meat eater is selfish and immoral for eating a can of tuna . its laughable really.

    but I'm all for people believing any crazy shit they want to believe . so long as that belief does NOT infringe on the rights of another 'human' being
    (the minute you infringe on my rights and take my steak away I'll slit your damn throat


    just like hundreds of years ago the brits didn't believe in gun rights, and then they took that belief and wanted to subject Americans to that belief and wanted us to hand in our guns and pay you all taxes. we said no. then you came over and we shot all your asses with the very guns you wanted to take away (this was back in 1776 , us Americans celebrate it every July 4th).

    just don't let your whacky beliefs and 'movement' go so far as to try and take the millions of meat eaters rights away. we fight back pretty damn hard
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-11-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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