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Thread: Whole Food Plant-Based Diet

  1. #1
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    Whole Food Plant-Based Diet

    My wife, a dietician, and my mother-in-law, have joined ranks and are pushing me to give Arnold Schwarzeneggerís plant-based Whole Foods diet a go.

    I typically eat about 300-450g chicken breast, and an egg with some added whites, and thatís the extent of my animal-based diet. The rest is veggies, brown rice, almonds, Ezekiel bread, and peanut butter. Iíve had that diet daily, for years.

    Unfortunately, Iím 38 and the past 5 years, and 12 blood tests, Iíve had the following average blood numbers, regardless of clean eating and helpful supps: HDL 38ish, LDL 190ish, and cholesterol 270ish. Triglycerides stay at an okay 110ish. The bad blood is complicated but naturally high hemoglobin, so I have to donate frequently to keep it in check.

    So, doing everything seemingly right, as a bodybuilder, endurance athlete, and clean water, I check all of the boxes. The only remaining option, before statins, is removing the animal based meats...

    So, Iím curious what everyoneís experiences and advice are regarding following Arnold to a whole food plant based diet?

    Thanks in advance fellas!


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  2. #2
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    My cumulative blood lab results with red dates, including donation dates in green.




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    ZXY2 is offline "Retired"
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    You will be attacked.

    You opened yourself to it.

    Arnold is a politician in california and weighs 180 @ 6ī2"

    I bet he will steer you in the right direction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    You will be attacked.

    You opened yourself to it.

    Arnold is a politician in california and weighs 180 @ 6ī2"

    I bet he will steer you in the right direction.
    Expected... heck I donít want to do it either, just looking for the feedback to support it.

    Statins are possible after my next blood labs, in 6 weeks


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    Look to eating more red meat and cut back on the carbs, and see what happens. Basically, try an elimination diet for about 30 days and see how your body reacts to it. Eat nothing but red meat and drink water, then go back and get your blood tested.
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    Watch that special on Netflix and YouTube on plant based diets. It made me stop eating meat a few weeks ago. I only eat rib tips from the chinese restaurant now. and some well seasoned salmon in the oven.

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    Whole Food Plant-Based Diet

    Quote Originally Posted by C27H40O3 View Post
    Watch that special on Netflix and YouTube on plant based diets. It made me stop eating meat a few weeks ago. I only eat rib tips from the chinese restaurant now. and some well seasoned salmon in the oven.

    Iíve seen it. Itís full of cherry picked, agenda based nonsense (for godís sake the director has a multimillion dollar investment in a pea protein producer) and ignores much of the science that is inconvenient to said agenda (zoochemicals, problematic micronutrient deficiencies that come with it, etc.)

    Iím not saying that one canít do fine with such a diet, but they definitely make it out to have benefits that it does not, in any healthy population. Itís just as ridiculous as the carnivore/keto goobers who swear that all of the huge benefits that we see for Type 2 Diabetics apply to everyone who isnít already fucked up. Thatís not how any of this works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    So, doing everything seemingly right, as a bodybuilder, endurance athlete, and clean water, I check all of the boxes. The only remaining option, before statins, is removing the animal based meats...
    its interesting to me that you think the ONLY option left for you is to remove animal products from your diet because you seen some propaganda movie . when animal products are what have sustained human existence and health since the beginning of time.

    I'll take the opposite approach.. I think your only option is to remove a lot of the plant based products, grains, and junk processed carbs from your diet and eat a lot more animal products. that will likely have a bigger impact on your health , well being, performance, and blood work,, compared to eating the same shit junk plant based products that are likely causing your issues in the first place


    you already said that the only animal product, meat, you've been eating is just chicken in the first place. thats likely part of your problem. chicken is not a nutrient dense animal product. so your likely already malnourished from eating a crappy source of animal products and being too plant based to begin with
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-03-2020 at 04:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    its interesting to me that you think the ONLY option left for you is to remove animal products from your diet because you seen some propaganda movie . when animal products are what have sustained human existence and health since the beginning of time.

    I'll take the opposite approach.. I think your only option is to remove a lot of the plant based products, grains, and junk processed carbs from your diet and eat a lot more animal products. that will likely have a bigger impact on your health , well being, performance, and blood work,, compared to eating the same shit junk plant based products that are likely causing your issues in the first place


    you already said that the only animal product, meat, you've been eating is just chicken in the first place. thats likely part of your problem. chicken is not a nutrient dense animal product. so your likely already malnourished from eating a crappy source of animal products and being too plant based to begin with
    Basically.

    Chicken is to protein as rice is to carbs (or to compare apples to apples, whey isolate). Itíll get you there from a macronutrient standpoint, but itís best used as a filler for said macro, and not making up the entirety of it.
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    There's a pretty cool documentary on Netflix called Game Changers - talks about tons of top level athletes who switched to plant based diets and now hold world records (including some strongman titles).

    I've often thought about one plant day or plant weekend each week and see how it goes.

    There's always two sides to everything in fitness (ie Deadlift is the devils exercise vs. Deadlift is the best thing in the world).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    There's a pretty cool documentary on Netflix called Game Changers - talks about tons of top level athletes who switched to plant based diets and now hold world records (including some strongman titles).
    thats the link i posted above. you can watch it on youtube if you dont have netflix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Basically.

    Chicken is to protein as rice is to carbs (or to compare apples to apples, whey isolate). Itíll get you there from a macronutrient standpoint, but itís best used as a filler for said macro, and not making up the entirety of it.
    Thank you for the feedback, I did neglect to mention tuna albacore on Ezekiel for my night time snack, and oatmeal with my eggs in the morning.

    Looking at my meal plan, which has been my staple plan for years, what subtle, cost-effective, changes would you make to it to improve?


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    I’m watching the game changer right now with my wife. She believes all of what she is watching. I have a family member who is a true vegan and he looks like a cancer patient.
    Men’s health magazine had an interesting article on this documentary saying basically it is very bias. I chalk a lot of these things up to another diet fad to make money.
    Let me know guys if I am wrong please.
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    Schwarzenneger is a politician.
    That says all you need to know.

    If it wasnt all biased then it wouldnt be about money and Arnold would not be involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    Thank you for the feedback, I did neglect to mention tuna albacore on Ezekiel for my night time snack, and oatmeal with my eggs in the morning.

    Looking at my meal plan, which has been my staple plan for years, what subtle, cost-effective, changes would you make to it to improve?


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    My current meat intake is a lot more varied, but unfortunately, youíre not going to get more cost effective than chicken breast. The stuff is just so mass produced that it costs almost nothing.

    My current protein sources:
    Whole eggs (egg whites are even more shit than chicken)
    Whole milk greek yogurt
    Mahi mahi
    Salmon
    Pork loin
    93/7 or 85/15 ground beef
    Dark chicken meat (primarily thighs)
    Beef/calf liver
    The occasional ribeye steak

    Youíll notice something here: I donít avoid animal fats. Thereís a reason for this. Many of the micronutrients in whole animal products are contained in fats. This is ESPECIALLY true with eggs. You lose something like 95% of the micronutrition when you toss the yolk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    My current meat intake is a lot more varied, but unfortunately, youíre not going to get more cost effective than chicken breast. The stuff is just so mass produced that it costs almost nothing.

    My current protein sources:
    Whole eggs (egg whites are even more shit than chicken)
    Whole milk greek yogurt
    Mahi mahi
    Salmon
    Pork loin
    93/7 or 85/15 ground beef
    Dark chicken meat (primarily thighs)
    Beef/calf liver
    The occasional ribeye steak

    Youíll notice something here: I donít avoid animal fats. Thereís a reason for this. Many of the micronutrients in whole animal products are contained in fats. This is ESPECIALLY true with eggs. You lose something like 95% of the micronutrition when you toss the yolk.
    Thank you.

    Iíll try to work in these better sources incrementally to be more cost effective.

    What about recommended carb sources, in lieu of my whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, and Ezekiel bread is my staples?


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    Thank you.

    Iíll try to work in these better sources incrementally to be more cost effective.

    What about recommended carb sources, in lieu of my whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, and Ezekiel bread is my staples?


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    I tend to stick with potatoes, sweet potatoes, fruits, veg and white rice when I need easily digested filler carbs. I donít see anything there that youíd want to drop, but add in other stuff.
    The only reason I donít fuck with oats and most breads is that they fuck with my respiratory system, and I end up with a nose so plugged up I canít even fucking blow it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    I tend to stick with potatoes, sweet potatoes, fruits, veg and white rice when I need easily digested filler carbs. I don’t see anything there that you’d want to drop, but add in other stuff.
    The only reason I don’t fuck with oats and most breads is that they fuck with my respiratory system, and I end up with a nose so plugged up I can’t even fucking blow it.
    Be damned... I wonder if thats my prob with nose

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Be damned... I wonder if thats my prob with nose
    It took me a long time to figure it out. Everyone was touting all of the shit about gluten blah blah, but nope. Even stupid expensive gluten free oats and breads did it. The only two breads I can tolerate are Rye and sourdough.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaginCajun View Post
    Look to eating more red meat and cut back on the carbs, and see what happens. Basically, try an elimination diet for about 30 days and see how your body reacts to it. Eat nothing but red meat and drink water, then go back and get your blood tested.
    Is ground beef an acceptable option for fulfilling this? Iím thinking lean to avoid those nasty saturated fats that wouldnít help me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    its interesting to me that you think the ONLY option left for you is to remove animal products from your diet because you seen some propaganda movie . when animal products are what have sustained human existence and health since the beginning of time.

    I'll take the opposite approach.. I think your only option is to remove a lot of the plant based products, grains, and junk processed carbs from your diet and eat a lot more animal products. that will likely have a bigger impact on your health , well being, performance, and blood work,, compared to eating the same shit junk plant based products that are likely causing your issues in the first place


    you already said that the only animal product, meat, you've been eating is just chicken in the first place. thats likely part of your problem. chicken is not a nutrient dense animal product. so your likely already malnourished from eating a crappy source of animal products and being too plant based to begin with
    Chicken, eggs, and tuna albacore daily.

    I understand where youíre coming from...

    What about adding in some ground beef, so it looks more like this:

    Fasted workout followed by rice milk with Whey Isolate

    Eggs and oats for breakfast

    Chicken, almonds, veggies, and brown rice for lunch

    Ground beef, veggies, and brown rice for lunch

    Ezekiel toast with albacore tuna for evening snack 1

    Suggestions for evening snack 2?

    This is my regular daily meal plan, just changing the chicken meal (lunch) to beef instead,

    Any other subtle changes welcomed.

    Thanks


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    Is ground beef an acceptable option for fulfilling this? Iím thinking lean to avoid those nasty saturated fats that wouldnít help me.
    How are saturated fats nasty? Without the proper amount of saturated fats, protein can't be assimilated in the body. Your diet seems to be severely lacking in fats.

    Almonds are pretty much indigestible. Fats and omega-3 fatty acids are in fresh albacore tuna but the stuff in a can is garbage. Try getting fattier cuts of beef, fresh tuna, butter, bone marrow, etc.

    Swap the brown rice for white rice. Swap the chicken for any other red meats. Drink cow milk rather than rice water. Stop eating veggies and add cheese, more eggs and try adding honey to your pre workout meals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronLiver View Post
    How are saturated fats nasty? Without the proper amount of saturated fats, protein can't be assimilated in the body. Your diet seems to be severely lacking in fats.

    Almonds are pretty much indigestible. Fats and omega-3 fatty acids are in fresh albacore tuna but the stuff in a can is garbage. Try getting fattier cuts of beef, fresh tuna, butter, bone marrow, etc.

    Swap the brown rice for white rice. Swap the chicken for any other red meats. Drink cow milk rather than rice water. Stop eating veggies and add cheese, more eggs and try adding honey to your pre workout meals.
    Thank you for the feedback

    Unfortunately, lactose is a no-go for me, so the cheese and milk are a no-go; hence the rice milk for the fast carbs, instead of almond milk, for the post workout shake.

    Iíve never heard almonds referred to as worthless, which is what theyíd be if pretty much indigestible.

    But why white rice over brown?

    I agree on the fats; up until recently, I was 90-110g average fats daily by incorporating olive oil, and natural PB toast (x2).


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    I just recently helped someone that was lactose intolerent and now he is eating about a pound of cheese a week. When drinking raw milk, blending in raw honey promotes lactose digestion. Avoiding pasteurized dairy is essential. The other main problem is not having the enzyme lactase, which breaks down lactose. You can get the enzyme by eating uncooked fish, meats, and eggs.

    The tannins and phytates in raw almonds make digestion difficult. Humans can't digest tannins and phytates. The phytates in the nut hold onto the minerals in the almond, preventing you from absorbing them.

    Brown rice is much more difficult to digest, due to the protective coating not being removed as it is in white rice. This is why every bodybuilder eats white rice and not brown rice.
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    I have noticed that when people go vegan from the standard american diet (meaning a fair amount of processed stuff), they initially feel great. Over time (meaning a couple of years) their health starts to wane and they start to look and feel worse. I have a friend that developed rheumatoid arthritis after being vegan for three years, and then got rid of it from going about 95% carnivore. He's healthy now and is effortlessly lean and strong (he is not a bodybuilder but sporadically lifts heavy things as he wants to make sure his muscle mass is at least not decreasing).

    I take from this (and other stories from people I know) that people are different and there is not one right thing for everyone.

    If you do decide to become vegan, I would suggest (in light with what IronLiver said above) that you pre-soak (and then dry) grains and nuts etc in order to remove phytic acid and other phytates, to increase the bioavailability of nutrients and to ensure that you do not irritate your gut too much. Be wary of processed vegan food and eat real food almost exclusively. Lots of packaged stuff contains rubbish like carrageenan, which is often used to change the consistency of processed food, but is also used to induce the symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease in lab animals (this is at high doses, but still, if you are going to make your gut work hard and eat a lot of things that plants don't want you to digest, you should be quite mindful of gut health, IMO).

    You also need to be mindful of how a plant diet might skew your nutrition. For example, almonds and most nuts are quite high in omega 6 oils, which are inflammatory in excess. You won't be able to eat fish/shellfish with their higher omega 3 content, and plant based omega 3 like flax and algae is far less bioavailable than animal sources.

    Lastly, do you have any genetic reason that makes you prone to high LDL? I have a variant of a lipoprotein that makes me prone to high LDL, and if I eat well and fast occasionally (meaning 36-40 hour fasts a couple times a month, and then I do a four or five day water fast once a quarter) my lipids are perfect and beautiful. This works really well for me and does not carry risks of statins (like diabetes and cognitive/memory decline).

    Also you should know that there are some people that do not think that high LDL is the issue at all, and cite studies that show that ~50% of all heart attacks occur in people with normal or low LDL, and people over 60 with the highest LDL-C values actually live the longest. Those people typically think that it's the great rise in metabolic disease that is causing the atherosclerosis and that all the unnatural sugars and refined carbs are the issues. They suggest that that your insulin sensitivity (as measured by watching how quickly your post prandial glucose reverts to baseline) is the best predictor of cardiac health. So that might be something to consider.

    I would keep monitoring all your biomarkers as you have been, and watch how any change you make affects you. This is a great way to find what works best for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thisAngelBites View Post
    Also you should know that there are some people that do not think that high LDL is the issue at all, and cite studies that show that ~50% of all heart attacks occur in people with normal or low LDL, and people over 60 with the highest LDL-C values actually live the longest. Those people typically think that it's the great rise in metabolic disease that is causing the atherosclerosis and that all the unnatural sugars and refined carbs are the issues. They suggest that that your insulin sensitivity (as measured by watching how quickly your post prandial glucose reverts to baseline) is the best predictor of cardiac health. So that might be something to consider.
    The biggest problem with cholesterol seems to be eating cooked vegetable oils, margarine, pam, and hydrogenated oils. These oils will harden in the arteries and crystallize turning into rock like substances. Harmful cholesterol can also come from cooking animal fats, because our body does not contain the neccesary enzymes to properly digest cooked meats and eggs especially as we get older. Its the cholesterol that the liver produces from these cooked fats and cooked cholesterol thats a problem.

    After studying diets of different indigenous people that don't get cancer or just about any other ailments that we get today, the common factor to living a long healthy life is eating a lot of raw animal fats. It would seem that cancer is basically a fat deficiency. A deficiency in utilizable cholesterol that normally dissolves and eliminates dead cells. Eating raw uncooked fats, like unsalted raw butter, raw eggs, cream, and cheeses will provide the body with good cholesterol, making a high cholesterol level beneficial and very healthy.
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  27. #27
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    Whole Food Plant-Based Diet

    Quote Originally Posted by IronLiver View Post
    The biggest problem with cholesterol seems to be eating cooked vegetable oils, margarine, pam, and hydrogenated oils. These oils will harden in the arteries and crystallize turning into rock like substances. Harmful cholesterol can also come from cooking animal fats, because our body does not contain the neccesary enzymes to properly digest cooked meats and eggs especially as we get older. Its the cholesterol that the liver produces from these cooked fats and cooked cholesterol thats a problem.

    After studying diets of different indigenous people that don't get cancer or just about any other ailments that we get today, the common factor to living a long healthy life is eating a lot of raw animal fats. It would seem that cancer is basically a fat deficiency. A deficiency in utilizable cholesterol that normally dissolves and eliminates dead cells. Eating raw uncooked fats, like unsalted raw butter, raw eggs, cream, and cheeses will provide the body with good cholesterol, making a high cholesterol level beneficial and very healthy.
    That entire last paragraph is pure conjecture on the part of some YouTube wank. The Hadza for example, donít have these issues and largely consume their calories from honey, tubers, and leaner game animals.
    The common denominator is related to the first paragraph. They donít eat a shitload of chemically extracted vegetable oils, or a shitload grain products due to the lack of agriculture. They do not all eat large quantities of raw animal fats; pretty much none actually. They have fire. Theyíre not pre-flint discovery cavemen.

    Stop listening to nonsense.
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    You would think that information about what people eat would sort out any questions about what to eat for longevity, but the Hadza eat very differently to the Okinawans, yet both seem to be long-lived and healthy. People have historically eaten what they can get where they live, which is naturally vastly different at the equator than close to poles.

    Jeff Leach, who studies the Hadza and has probably written the studies that everyone has seen about their diets also took a trip to Tanzania with a bunch of crap processed food with him and when he got there he tested their gut bacteria, then fed that rubbish to those people he was studying there for a few days, and then tested their gut biome again and was shocked to see that their biome did not change. He was expecting radical differences due to the fact that when he had previously tested his biome before his trip, and then tested it again after a couple of days there eating local food, it was very very different. He presumed it was the food, but then why didn't the microbiomes change when eating the processed food? There are varying theories about the amount of light influencing health more than food, but I think it's not yet known for certain.

    Having said that, I have never seen a study that shows that eating raw dairy or cheese gets a favourable health outcome. Milk is a very pro-growth food, with insulin like growth factors and in nature only young animals eat these quick growth-promoting foods, and they have been associated with breast and prostate cancer, as far as I can recall. But I would be interested if anyone knows of anything saying that raw milk or cheese (these are very easily accessible here in Europe, and some places (the netherlands comes to mind) have very high consumption, but also have v high breast cancer rates, for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisAngelBites View Post
    You would think that information about what people eat would sort out any questions about what to eat for longevity, but the Hadza eat very differently to the Okinawans, yet both seem to be long-lived and healthy. People have historically eaten what they can get where they live, which is naturally vastly different at the equator than close to poles.

    Jeff Leach, who studies the Hadza and has probably written the studies that everyone has seen about their diets also took a trip to Tanzania with a bunch of crap processed food with him and when he got there he tested their gut bacteria, then fed that rubbish to those people he was studying there for a few days, and then tested their gut biome again and was shocked to see that their biome did not change. He was expecting radical differences due to the fact that when he had previously tested his biome before his trip, and then tested it again after a couple of days there eating local food, it was very very different. He presumed it was the food, but then why didn't the microbiomes change when eating the processed food? There are varying theories about the amount of light influencing health more than food, but I think it's not yet known for certain.

    Having said that, I have never seen a study that shows that eating raw dairy or cheese gets a favourable health outcome. Milk is a very pro-growth food, with insulin like growth factors and in nature only young animals eat these quick growth-promoting foods, and they have been associated with breast and prostate cancer, as far as I can recall. But I would be interested if anyone knows of anything saying that raw milk or cheese (these are very easily accessible here in Europe, and some places (the netherlands comes to mind) have very high consumption, but also have v high breast cancer rates, for example.
    I would recommend looking into the work of Weston Price who traveled to many different indigenous groups in the 1930's and studied all the different diets. Every healthy native culture he studied ate animal foods raw with very few vegitable foods. The milk, cheese and butter of Swiss villagers and African herdsmen were eaten raw and never heated. Animal organs in every culture were eaten raw. Eskimos of Arctic regions ate raw meat and fish. Islanders in the South Pacific and coastal Australian Aborigines ate meat raw, including shellfish.

    You will probably not find a study that will say that cheese or raw milk is healthy, in fact you will most likely find the opposite. This is why it's illegal to sell fresh milk in most places. You have to make sure to pasteurize the milk to kill all those terrible bacteria that might kill you! Or better yet, let's just replace milk with cruelty free soy milk and almond milk to make the vegans happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronLiver View Post
    I would recommend looking into the work of Weston Price who traveled to many different indigenous groups in the 1930's and studied all the different diets. Every healthy native culture he studied ate animal foods raw with very few vegitable foods. The milk, cheese and butter of Swiss villagers and African herdsmen were eaten raw and never heated. Animal organs in every culture were eaten raw. Eskimos of Arctic regions ate raw meat and fish. Islanders in the South Pacific and coastal Australian Aborigines ate meat raw, including shellfish.

    You will probably not find a study that will say that cheese or raw milk is healthy, in fact you will most likely find the opposite. This is why it's illegal to sell fresh milk in most places. You have to make sure to pasteurize the milk to kill all those terrible bacteria that might kill you! Or better yet, let's just replace milk with cruelty free soy milk and almond milk to make the vegans happy.
    Price was also a dentist (and reputedly horrible one at that) who believed that TB was caused by diet. The man was looking for anything and everything to prove his weird ass theories, and his journals have been shown to possess several things that can only be construed as outright lies, or utter incompetence in observation.

    Please tell me this isnít what youíre basing most of your thoughts on.

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    I think there is valuable bits and pieces in each dogma of nutrition. It's very easy to get stuck sown the rabbit hole.

    Improving the quality of food made the biggest difference for me. - Switching to grass fed, organic, and free range food as well as shopping local.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I think there is valuable bits and pieces in each dogma of nutrition. It's very easy to get stuck sown the rabbit hole.

    Improving the quality of food made the biggest difference for me. - Switching to grass fed, organic, and free range food as well as shopping local.
    I'm a little surprised to see that many bodybuilders eat there pre-cooked Trifecta meat patties and most don't buy top of the line meats from local farms. I guess I understand that they get it for free but when you're eating as much as they are, you would think that you would want the highest quality meats to look the best. I recently moved to a coastal city just so that I could eat the freshest tuna and shrimp for a good price. I was going to try doing a fish only diet after seeing how Wesley Vissers eats only fish but after about 1 month of nothing but fish I couldn't do it anymore. I do believe that eating fresh caught fish may be a bit healthier than beef, due to the crap they feed the cows but I enjoy the taste of beef too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronLiver View Post
    I'm a little surprised to see that many bodybuilders eat there pre-cooked Trifecta meat patties and most don't buy top of the line meats from local farms. I guess I understand that they get it for free but when you're eating as much as they are, you would think that you would want the highest quality meats to look the best. I recently moved to a coastal city just so that I could eat the freshest tuna and shrimp for a good price. I was going to try doing a fish only diet after seeing how Wesley Vissers eats only fish but after about 1 month of nothing but fish I couldn't do it anymore. I do believe that eating fresh caught fish may be a bit healthier than beef, due to the crap they feed the cows but I enjoy the taste of beef too much.
    Most of them have no exit strategy past bodybuilding. If their food is free, supplements are sponsored, and gear is mostly paid by their benefits (when scripted), then most of the lifestyle costs are covered. Leaves a lot of money leftover for a retirement fund.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisAngelBites View Post
    I have noticed that when people go vegan from the standard american diet (meaning a fair amount of processed stuff), they initially feel great. Over time (meaning a couple of years) their health starts to wane and they start to look and feel worse. I have a friend that developed rheumatoid arthritis after being vegan for three years, and then got rid of it from going about 95% carnivore. He's healthy now and is effortlessly lean and strong (he is not a bodybuilder but sporadically lifts heavy things as he wants to make sure his muscle mass is at least not decreasing).

    I take from this (and other stories from people I know) that people are different and there is not one right thing for everyone.

    If you do decide to become vegan, I would suggest (in light with what IronLiver said above) that you pre-soak (and then dry) grains and nuts etc in order to remove phytic acid and other phytates, to increase the bioavailability of nutrients and to ensure that you do not irritate your gut too much. Be wary of processed vegan food and eat real food almost exclusively. Lots of packaged stuff contains rubbish like carrageenan, which is often used to change the consistency of processed food, but is also used to induce the symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease in lab animals (this is at high doses, but still, if you are going to make your gut work hard and eat a lot of things that plants don't want you to digest, you should be quite mindful of gut health, IMO).

    You also need to be mindful of how a plant diet might skew your nutrition. For example, almonds and most nuts are quite high in omega 6 oils, which are inflammatory in excess. You won't be able to eat fish/shellfish with their higher omega 3 content, and plant based omega 3 like flax and algae is far less bioavailable than animal sources.

    Lastly, do you have any genetic reason that makes you prone to high LDL? I have a variant of a lipoprotein that makes me prone to high LDL, and if I eat well and fast occasionally (meaning 36-40 hour fasts a couple times a month, and then I do a four or five day water fast once a quarter) my lipids are perfect and beautiful. This works really well for me and does not carry risks of statins (like diabetes and cognitive/memory decline).

    Also you should know that there are some people that do not think that high LDL is the issue at all, and cite studies that show that ~50% of all heart attacks occur in people with normal or low LDL, and people over 60 with the highest LDL-C values actually live the longest. Those people typically think that it's the great rise in metabolic disease that is causing the atherosclerosis and that all the unnatural sugars and refined carbs are the issues. They suggest that that your insulin sensitivity (as measured by watching how quickly your post prandial glucose reverts to baseline) is the best predictor of cardiac health. So that might be something to consider.

    I would keep monitoring all your biomarkers as you have been, and watch how any change you make affects you. This is a great way to find what works best for you.
    What are your thoughts on statins?

    Staying with animal meats, following a lot of the advice I got here, adding red meat, soaking & dehydrating almonds, keeping carbs at my average low, etc.

    Doc wants me to try a statin at half dose in 6 weeks following another blood test.

    Yes, I genetically predisposed to these LDL, HDL, and cholesterol levels being on the wrong end. But I am in physically excellent health aside from these.


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClydes View Post
    What are your thoughts on statins?

    Staying with animal meats, following a lot of the advice I got here, adding red meat, soaking & dehydrating almonds, keeping carbs at my average low, etc.

    Doc wants me to try a statin at half dose in 6 weeks following another blood test.

    Yes, I genetically predisposed to these LDL, HDL, and cholesterol levels being on the wrong end. But I am in physically excellent health aside from these.


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    statins are likely going to make you feel ill

    cholesterol issues are not that concerning.. in fact people with high cholesterol generally live longer then those with lower

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    Raw milk is legal where I live, and although I gave my child limited raw milk after weaning, I instead really moved towards water instead. No other animal consumes the milk of another species, and no animal has milk past the very intense growth stage of childhood (this is in line with what I said earlier about the abundance of insulin like growth factors). I'm one of the people that thinks screwing with mother nature in this way is usually not good, but other people don't think it's an issue, or else they just don't know.

    PS - I read Weston Price about 20 years when I got interested in nutrition, and like most experts I have read, I found some things I agreed with and others I didn't. I think we can eat more real food without consuming milk throughout our lives. If I was going to drink milk, I would always prefer raw, but I would rather not consume much milk, and I save cheese for occasional treats (and we get very good raw cheese here, and when I go over to France to shop).

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    Before the 1960's when Coca Cola starting bottling and selling water, the average person drank a few ounces of water per day, unless you were an athlete. Then Coca Cola had the doctors come in and say that you needed to drink 8 cups of water a day to be healthy. Water is a solvent that dehydrates cells. When you put water on your skin, you skin will dry and crack. When you put raw butter on your skin, your skin stays hydrated the whole day. The same thing is happening in our body. I switched to only drinking milk and naturally carbonated mineral water a while back, which helps to restore electrolyte balance and oxygen levels in the blood and reduces adrenaline production.

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