Question on CKD dieting

Hey, I'm new to the boards. I have just started a CKD, where I'm around 20 grams of carbs per day during the week with a refeed one day a week. Wanted to know if anyone has any advice on whether it actually works. I have read quite a bit on it regarding glycogen depletion/replenishing. Hope my body adjusts to it.

Training is a 3 on/1 off. High intensity the first three days after the refeed and more volume oriented, less intense the second three days after the off day.

No supplementation as of right now. Cycled off creatine since there aint no carbs to really transport it anyway.

Thanks,
LLB

beenie's been doing a version of it for 2.5 yrs... has worked for him to a degree

I have done it a couple of times in the past but found the psychological toil of it outweighed the benefits. :mad:

Can't argue though that done correctly it works great.

def

My version is a bit different were I try to restrict carbs to an absolute minimum all the time, i.e., no days off.

You and I are probably really different as I started out really fat, and now I am pretty lean. I want to get leaner, and have recently modified the diet to make it more restrictive than before.

I saw your post earlier and did not respond becuse I have never heard of a diet by that name: "CKD" I take it from your description that this is the one where you restrict yourself of carbs of some arbitrary (or maybe not) number of fday and then carb load the next day, then repeat the cycle. If thats the diet to which you refer, I remember a complete discussion on the topiic a few weeks ago. I wasn't completely convinced about the carb loading part, but hey different stuff works for different people. Besides, some stuff that is "known" to be true sometimes turns out to be wrong, e.g., low carb diets dont work, the world is flat, and arnold never did roids.

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Originally posted by beenie
I take it from your description that this is the one where you restrict yourself of carbs of some arbitrary (or maybe not) number of fday and then carb load the next day, then repeat the cycle. .

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Yeah, pretty close to that. You are ketoing for a five day cycle, then carb loading for 24-36 hours after the carb restrictive week. Dan Duchaine's BodyOpus and Dr. DePasquale's Anabolic Diet are variations of the CKD which stands for Cyclical Keto Diet.

The theory behind it is that you completely deplete muscle glyco during the week, relying on ketones and FFA's as sources of energy, which are basically broken down in the liver and converted to usable glucose. After the carb load, glycogen levels sky rocket above normal, giving you anabolic bursts of energy for 2-3 days afterwards where you may be able to up your poundages.

The studies show the potential for it to be a muscle sparing diet, where at the least muscle tissue is maintained while fat is broken down. A variation to this is called a TKD (targeted ketogenic diet), where carbs are taken in pre and post workout ONLY.

I'm on Day 3 of this. I'll let you know of my results. I'm going to eat my steak now.

- LLB

Keep me posted.

I'm in day 5 of low-carbing. As anticipated glycogen stores and water is gone. After only 5 days, this is the most cut I have ever looked, but also... a bit smaller.... just as I have read.

There is a slight insignificant decrease in strength and endurance, but it's hard to tell since this is the higher volume part of the week.

The carb up starts in two days and will last for 36 hours. Following the carb up, I will have three days of high intensity, low rep training where I will microload poundages to all my sets. I'll let you know how that goes.

No ups and downs in regard to being tired... makes sense... no insulin spikes.

No headaches as documented except on the first day. Mental acuity is average to slightly below average. I dropped a couple of things on the floor this week and I usually don't drop things.

And finally, as documented... NO HUNGER whatsoever.

Your result are perfectly consistent with mine as far as the low carb part. I swithed to low carb, low fat on the advice of several members. Now my weight is dropping WAY too fast, but I look cut.

How did it go after you carb loaded?

Yup... depending on how your body reacts, I would suggest incorporating a TKD during certain times of your week if you are losing too quickly. You want to preserve as much lean muscle as possible. Also, make sure you EAT! The mere fact that you are low carbing will decrease hunger significantly. Make sure to get in at least 150 g of protein per day.

After my first carb up, I felt amazing for the three days following and was able to increase my poundages on all exercises. Plus, this is the leanest I have ever looked. Still waiting though, to see the long term results (about 8 weeks), to give the thumbs up approval.

I am gunna do that too I think. But maybe on Saturdays Ill up the fat and carb. I did it the last couple weeks cause I have lost so much sice lowering my fat intake. Last Saturday I had a great workout after it, so I am hoping that I can establish a pattern.

Thanks for the update. This really seems worth a shot.

llbeastcd do you only take a protein shake post workout and no carbs at all??

Have you noticed any decrease in muscle mass because of that??'

And about the creatin would it not be wise to load a little creatin during the high carb day??

How many kcal and how much protein do you take every day??

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Originally posted by johan
llbeastcd do you only take a protein shake post workout and no carbs at all??

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I take a protein meal. No carbs at all. None. Those that opt to do the TKD, center their carbs around workout times.

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Originally posted by johan
Have you noticed any decrease in muscle mass because of that??

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Not as of yet, no.

Quote:

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Originally posted by johan
And about the creatin would it not be wise to load a little creatin during the high carb day??

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I thought about that. However, one day won't really make a difference, so I have just decided to make this the off cycle time for creatine. I have also heard that you can take creatine with caffeine. Early studies on the uptake of creatine were done with caffeine, not dextrose.

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Originally posted by johan
How many kcal and how much protein do you take every day??

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Between 2000-2250 and 150-225 grams.

Do you know any place where I can find more info about TKD??

BTW is that you in your avatar??

Yes, its me. Try these links:

http://www.davedraper.com/ketogenic-diet-book.html

http://www.thepowerstore.com/

Also, go to google and type in a newsgroup search, "TKD"... there are oodles of archived threads on it from misc.fitness.weights.

The book by Lyle McDonald entitled, "The Ketogenic Diet" is the bible. He also posts to MFW.

Thanks for the links appriciate it.

And damn your biceps are awsome, thats the kind of arm development I wish I had.

Whats your stats??

I'll do one better... here's my whole story:

www.knossos.org/training/

The site is underconstruction. Some links don't work. But it will tell you a little about me.

Ohh man I cant tell you how inspiering that is.

I once was vey very fat to, almost like you in the before pics before I started wrestling 3 times a week.

But then after a while weight lifting took over my intereste and stupid as I was I bulked upp WAY to much and then I lost alot of my muscle and fat when I dieted down.

And stupid as I was I bulked again after that, so right now Im sitting here pretty fat again and afraid to lose muscle again when I diet down.

But seeing those pics of you where you obviously have put on loads of muscle and lost incredible amounts of fat its just incredible and it takes away my fear of losing muscle.

What do you feel is most effective by the way, the body for life diet or a keto diet?

I would be very interested in seeing your rutine during that diet, can you pm me when you put it online??

Here is my homepage btw but I havent uppdated it in a year or so.

www.geocities.com/ironpumping2000

Hey fellas, new to the boards as well. tried out a low carb diet this past december and it worked pretty damn well. the cravings can be rough, but they are well worth the fat loss. threw in around 30 minutes of cardio in the morn as well. let me know how your CKD goes!