No cardio after lifting???

[OSTIE]

Hi,
I am fairly new to this forum, referred to by a friend. I have been doing some reading though as of late and have been noticing a lot of comments about cardio after lifting. Why is that?
Also right now, I am trying to get rid of as much fat as possible before I try to pack on mass, so I lift 5days a week, then after the lifting, I usually do about 20min of cardio on an elliptical machine trying to maintain a heart rate in the high 160's, low 170's - 6 days a week. After the elliptical machine, I then either sprint( or run as fast as I can for how tired I am ) a mile or I switch it off by jogging a steady 4miles with a pace of about 8 1/2 min per mile. I usually do the 4mile jog 2-3 times a week, dependent on weather. I am a newbie to lifting/dieting right, so I am currently starting off by doing this fat loss naturally and take in good habits. I do consume atleast a gram of protein for every pound I weigh (210lbs.) and take in approx. 2400 calories a day. In combination to first question then to why cardio shouldnt be done after lifting, is this sufficient cardio to supplement my lifting for losing fat naturally?

Feel free to rip anything I said apart and suggest any tips.
Thanks
-ost

[Yung Wun]

try performing cardio in the am if u can on an empty stomach, bump the 20mintues to at least 45mins, at a low-moderate intensity, if u cant do it in the am post workout will have to do, juss make sure u postworkout shake/meal is right after.if u plan on doing the sprints, make sure u dont do it on a empty stomach, as that will turn into more of an anerobic workout since ur doing it till fatigue.keep up the 5days of weight training. and juss make sure ur diet and timing of it is in check. bodybuilding fitness forums hype muscle bodybuilders

[OSTIE]

The 20min of cardio is just what i do on the elliptical machine at the gym. On top of that, I switch off between sprinting the mile, or jogging 3-4 miles depending on fatigue.

[Yung Wun]

i meant to perform a total of 45mintues of cardio on the elliptical or running, whatever u like in the am but juss @ a moderate intensity.if ur hooked on sprinting till u cant do no more, treat it as a workout cuz it begins to get anaerobic, so dont do this on empty. if u can do more than 45mintues of cardio juss keep whatever ur doin @ a low-moderate intensity.

bodybuilding fitness forums hype muscle bodybuilders

[bigsd67]

ill second young wun...when i started dieting i also did a good 45 minutes of total cardio after lifting...separating cardio is the best way to lose fat. when your body is on empty it has nothing to turn to except fat stores to use for energy. the key is to keep your heart rate at about 70% of your max. To find that out do 220 - age * .70 If you cant perform the cardio when you first wake up, then after lifting will have to do, but still do it at the pace i set above.

[arthurb999]

After hitting the iron, you need post workout nutrition... that is the most important. If you do cardio for an hour after working out, you are delaying your pwo shake.

[OSTIE]

Thanks guys

[bigsd67]

After hitting the iron, you need post workout nutrition... that is the most important. If you do cardio for an hour after working out, you are delaying your pwo shake.

I totally agree with you here, but unfortunately some people just cant do it....if it is totally impossible than doing cardio after workouts is the only way and is better than absolutely nothing....however i will always recommend separating lifting and cardio for that exact reason.

[Kim2884]

If you're going to do cardio after lifting, i would not suggest doing high intensity cardio like sprints. You're body's glycogen stores are already depleted after a lifting workout, and is in a catabolic state...high-intensity cardio uses primarily glycogen for energy, and you won't have much left at this point so your body may start breaking down the muscle you just worked so hard to build. In contrast, low-intensity cardio uses primarily fat for energy, especially once glycogen stores have been depleted. However, if you do low-intensity cardio after lifting, you will have to cut the fat-burning process short by reloading glycogen stores with carbohydrates to help your muscles recover from lifting. This is why most people say it is best to separate cardio and lifting. If you do cardio separately, you don't have to eat right away and you don't have to eat carbs, which will extend the period of catabolism and optimize fat-burning. And if you follow your lifting immediately with refueling and rest rather than more vigorous activity, you will make the most out of an anabolic period, and optimize muscle growth. Bottom line: it's better to keep cardio and lifting separate, but if you must do them together, do low to moderate intensity cardio.

[arthurb999]

Why not do cardio before you workout. Is there any downfall to that?

[Yung Wun]

Why not do cardio before you workout. Is there any downfall to that?

if dun before, ur glycogen stores will be lowered. when doing cardio at low-moderate intensity the fuel source is glycogen and as you progress the fuel source switches from glycogen to fat. bodybuilding fitness forums hype muscle bodybuilders

[OSTIE]

Thanks kim, you explained that well. On the days that i do not start school early, ive started doing cardio in the morning. One question though, ive heard do the cardio on the empty stomach in the mornings, but when i wake up, i am STARVING. And when ive gone to the gym then, my cardio level isnt up to par as what it is when i did it later in the day. Is it ok to eat atleast alittle something, banana or something better????

[J-F]

I totally agree with you Kim BUT

acording do John Berardi (wich is and pretty respectable source) it is better to do Areobic cardio and Anaerobic (sprint) cardio... where is the explanation...

Anaerobic Interval Training

The anaerobic (interval) phase of this exercise program is in place for the following reasons:

1. Anaerobic intervals lead to a large caloric expenditure during the exercise but also a large EPOC (post exercise metabolic rate).
2. Anaerobic intervals lead to increased aerobic, anaerobic, and ATP-PC enzyme activity. These enzymes are responsible for regulating the energy pathways of the muscle. By up-regulating these enzymes, you'll burn more fat and carbohydrates.
3. Anaerobic intervals can lead to increased muscle size in the working muscles.
4. Anaerobic intervals lead to an increased SR (sarcoplasmic reticulum). The SR is responsible for the calcium balance and contractile regulation of the muscle.
5. Anaerobic intervals can lead to an increased % of FT (fast twitch) fibers (IIA) and a loss of the ST (slow twitch) fibers (I). The fast twitch fibers are better suited to strength and power as well as growth.


Aerobic Training

And finally, the aerobic phase of this program is in place for the following reasons:

1. Aerobic exercise is the most energy costly exercise.
2. Aerobic exercise can increase maximal oxygen consumption during any given work intensity (and therefore fat metabolism during any sub maximal work intensity)
3. Aerobic exercise can increase the aerobic/oxidative enzymes by 40-50%. This leads to better fat burning at rest and during exercise.
4. Aerobic exercise can lead to an increase in capillary density by 50%. This means more blood flow to the working muscles.
5. Aerobic exercise can lead to an increased reliance on fat metabolism while sparing glycogen.

He also sugest to taker a regular PWO shake rigth after the cardio.... those explanation make sense to me...

This guys as a total different point off view than most people here on the board so don't flame to hard lol

Here is the whole article
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/.../winning_2.htm


i think you should read this...

[Kim2884]

ostie- personally, I don't do cardio on an empty stomach. I know it is supposed to be the best thing to do, but i just don't like to do it, i'd be hungry too and personally i would not be motivated to get out of bed knowing that the first thing i'm gonna do is cardio. Most people on this board have much more dedication than I do, and it's great that you're willing to do it...but if you feel like your workout is suffering because of it, there's no reason you can't eat something small beforehand. However, I would recommend a very small amount protein/fat food. Eating carbs before cardio blunts fat burning to an extent. Maybe something like 1/8 cup of nuts or something would be good. just enough to keep your stomach from grumbling.
J-F: I don't really have a stance on the low-intensity vs. interval debate. I only said that I don't think high-intensity intervals should be used after a lifting workout, since glycogen is already depleted and glycogen is the main source of energy for that kind of cardio. It just wouldn't make sense and I don't see how anyone could even get through that much anaerobic exercise at one time. I'm sure there are benefits to interval training and I'm sure it can fit in to a workout routine and that people see results with it. I just don't think it should be done immediately after weight training.

[bigsd67]

J-F i actually have read a lot of info. by berardi as well ( i subscribe to t-mag), i must say that i have tried both AM low intensity cardio and PM interval training....i have to say that i am seeing really fine results with the AM cardio and i am not losing strength in the gym...not is my energy levels dropping....according to many, if you eat properly for the rest of the day AM cardio isnt gonna harm you....JMO.

[usualsuspect]

This guys as a total different point off view than most people here on the board so don't flame to hard lol

Actually most of what John advocates is practiced by a large percentage of us on the board. He has written many well-informed and practical articles on nutrition and training.

[J-F]

J-F i actually have read a lot of info. by berardi as well ( i subscribe to t-mag), i must say that i have tried both AM low intensity cardio and PM interval training....i have to say that i am seeing really fine results with the AM cardio and i am not losing strength in the gym...not is my energy levels dropping....according to many, if you eat properly for the rest of the day AM cardio isnt gonna harm you....JMO.

I have nothing againts AM cardio, the only thing i wanted to show is that Am cardio is not the ONLY way to go...

I mean, on some other thread the guy tell he's schedule does not allow him to AM cardio,

Instead of flaming and tell him is weak-minded ( not in those word ) and he should get up a 4.AM to go and run outside, why not suggest the best other possibility ???

I mean, i have done Am cardio for a while, i had great results but i hated ssoooooo much thta i decide to change my cardio routine for something that i would stand more than 4 week on...



sorry for the bad english...

[J-F]

Actually most of what John advocates is practiced by a large percentage of us on the board. He has written many well-informed and practical articles on nutrition and training.

I was talking about the Aerobic and Anaerobic cardio for fat loss, not all of John's point of view...

my mistake...

[Kim2884]

good point J-F...some people have the determination to get up ridiculously early every morning and do cardio. good for them...but there's no reason to make people believe that their efforts are worthless unless they do it the way other people say to. Ultimately, cardio at any time, any intensity is beneficial. People have different opinions as to which way is the MOST beneficial, but I believe that the differences are minimal and people should just do what is most convenient for them and what is easiest for them to stick to.

[bigsd67]

I have nothing againts AM cardio, the only thing i wanted to show is that Am cardio is not the ONLY way to go...

I mean, on some other thread the guy tell he's schedule does not allow him to AM cardio,

Instead of flaming and tell him is weak-minded ( not in those word ) and he should get up a 4.AM to go and run outside, why not suggest the best other possibility ???

I mean, i have done Am cardio for a while, i had great results but i hated ssoooooo much thta i decide to change my cardio routine for something that i would stand more than 4 week on...



sorry for the bad english...

i wasnt flaming him..i was just posing the question and using the example of my friend...and i also said that he had a very strict regimen and wasnt normal compared to others....i said that doing cardio after workouts is ok but may not be optimal for pure fat loss...all in all im an advocate for doing what ever works for you