Screw Starving...Im back on SC/Rambo Cut plan...Check it

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Ive been thinking it off Swole and you are so fricken right. I can be man off enough to admit when Im wrong and I offer my apology. I needed a quick fix and I wasnt ready for the drug approach yet so I took the starvation one .... I just cannot continue subsisting anymore on the miniscule amount of calories. I was thinking what was limiting me last time and I wasnt serious enough back then as I am now, what I mean is now I invested in a 5 dollar scale to ensure my portions are dead on!

I was also thinking about how you were saying I would get catabolic and I thought I havent....But I have been neglecting legs recently, it's my sunday workout and Im lazy but really is because I have a seriously swollen ankle that leads to strain/pain in my whole foot and joint. It's so bad that in the middle of the night I have FALLEN into my dresser on the way to the bathroom because the foot tightens up so bad that when I stepped I just collapsed in pain... Anyway, looking at the mirror, what little leg mass I had is fleeting... Yea I lost a lot of bodyfat too, I'd say Im down to 12%, but I need the 6 pack!!!

Heres how the diet is checking out:

Breakfast - 715 AM

Scoop Pro-Rated Protein
Egg Whites(4)
Oatmeal 1/2 Cup

TOTAL Cal 345.0 P-42.9 C-32.2 F4.5

Shake - 10 AM

Flax Seed Oil - Omega 3 -1 tbsp
Pro-Rated Protein 2 scoop

TOTAL Cal-360.0 Pro-44.0 C-8.0 F-16.0

Tuna Salad - 1245 PM
Lettuce
Tuna Flaked Light Can - 1.5 can
Safflower Oil - Omega 6 - 1 Tbsp

TOTAL Cal-306.3 Pro-40.7 C-3.1 F-15.5

Apple or Banana here @ 3? If not what to compensate in the long delay from the last meal, just a shake, perhaps the scoop saved for down below before bed?

WORKOUT 3:15-4:15

Post-workout meal 1 - 430 PM

Dextrose 1/3 cup
Protein Powder 2 scoops

TOTAL Cal-432.0 P-44.0 C-59.2 F-3.0

Post-workout meal 2 - 7 PM

Chicken Breast (150.00 gram cooked)
Sweet Potato(150.00 gram) - 36 Carbs
Broccoli (200.0 gram) - 10 Fibrous Carbs

TOTAL Cal461.0 P54.9 C46.9 F6.4


Before bed protein snack - 10 PM
Flax/Safflower Oil Combo(3 & 6) - 1 Tbsp
Pro-Rated Protein - 1 scoop
Friendship 1% Cottage Cheese Curds 150.00g
TOTAL Cal358.4 P43.1 C7.9 F16.8

DAILY TOTAL Cal2315.2 P270.4 C169.4 F62.4

[eggplant]

i would haf some protein shake..if i'm not wrong, if u injest carbs at 3 before ur workout at 3.15, u will be using the carbs to fuel ur workout,instead of using fat stores as the primary energy source..i'm also cutting right nw, and learning as much as i can...gd luck mate~

[Kim2884]

eggplant- that is true of cardio. but during a lifting workout, fat oxidation isn't the goal, and eating carbs beforehand would not be detrimental, but it's also not really necessary. I think the general consensus is carbs in the am, pwo and ppwo

[longhornDr]

I would ditch the carbs in the AM and make it a fat/protein meal.

I assume you are doing cardio first thing on empty stomach?

When cutting I only use carbs for the postworkout meals, it's the only time your body needs them.

[daman1]

I would ditch the carbs in the AM and make it a fat/protein meal.

I assume you are doing cardio first thing on empty stomach?

When cutting I only use carbs for the postworkout meals, it's the only time your body needs them.

I wouldn't ditch the carbs in the AM. You need a slow burning carb and protein first thing. JMO though.

[bigsd67]

I wouldn't ditch the carbs in the AM. You need a slow burning carb and protein first thing. JMO though.

i think this depends really on the person and their goals...im pretty sure that eating a pro/fat meal after cardio will still allow the body to burn fat, though i can be mistaking about this...i think it's really preference as i know people who are successful with Oats in the AM (my girl) and pro/fat in the AM (me )

[will86]

should i down the fat/protein shake or meal right after i'm done with cardio or ridde th ewave of lipolysis for 30 minutes and then down the meaL?

[daman1]

i think this depends really on the person and their goals...im pretty sure that eating a pro/fat meal after cardio will still allow the body to burn fat, though i can be mistaking about this...i think it's really preference as i know people who are successful with Oats in the AM (my girl) and pro/fat in the AM (me )

I wasn't talking about cardio. I am talking if you don't do cardio first thing in the AM then do what I said. But, if you do cardio first thing, then I agree a protein/fat meal is best for lyposis.

[Kim2884]

I would wait 30 mins. or so

[Elliot]

i have a fat/pro.. however you should definetly not mix carb/fat in the am or at any time.... just my 2 cent..

[AbsolutelyLethal]

I do cardio in the morning so Ill switch up Meal one to Pro-Fat and Meal Two or Four the one before I workout, do a P/C shake with oatmeal inside....Im just curious as to why Rambo posts take Pro and Carbs in the morning then?

[Kim2884]

well, a lot of people eat pro/carbs in the am because glycogen is somewhat depleted after not eating all night. but, if you do cardio first thing, then you don't really want to cut lipolysis short by eating carbs right after. I don't do cardio in the morning, so i eat a pro/carb meal for breakfast...then later in the day i do cardio and eat a pro/fat meal afterwards. It all depends on what your workout schedule is like...and it sounds like you're doing what's best for your plan.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

The only reason I do cardio in the morning is b/c everyone is so "Cardio on empty stomach..." I dont really notice a difference either way....Ill try both ways out, 1/2 week do P/C in Morning with cardio later and 1/2 week with morning cardio then P/F, and see which works better....

Thanks KIM!

[Kim2884]

no problem...but if you're gonna try out both ways, you should give them each more time than 1/2 a week. you won't notice fat loss in a couple days. I would keep doin am cardio for a few weeks and then change it up and see what happens.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Kim, when do you do cardio since its not in the morning? How long since your last meal do you cardio? I dont notice a difference, not sure what Im ever looking for besides the numbers on the scale, if its pre-meal morning or afternoon cardio....

Today, non-workout day, I ate P/F Meals @ 830 and 12 Cardio @ 2-3 then a P/F Shake at 3:10 when I was in the car, PF Meal @ 530, and Plan on P/F(steak) for dinner at 730 with a side of fibrous carbs. Possibly some Lowfat/carb cottage cheese later tonight if I decide I need it. Dont feel like I need carbs right since I carbed up big over the weekend...

[Kim2884]

It depends, but I usually end up doing it early afternoon or evening..depends on what the rest of my day looks like. I do it 2-3 hrs. after my last meal. Keep in mind it takes time to notice a difference with anything you change about your diet or workout. Don't worry about your weekend indulgences too much...you don't even want to know what I ate this weekend...or what i've eaten every saturday for the past year...but i've still seen results.

[bigsd67]

It depends, but I usually end up doing it early afternoon or evening..depends on what the rest of my day looks like. I do it 2-3 hrs. after my last meal. Keep in mind it takes time to notice a difference with anything you change about your diet or workout. Don't worry about your weekend indulgences too much...you don't even want to know what I ate this weekend...or what i've eaten every saturday for the past year...but i've still seen results.

i definintely agree about giving anything a chance...you will not see results from your cardio timing for around a month. i started doing cardio on an empty stomach in the AM and started noticing the results about 1.5 months later, a week or even two just isnt enough time. and as for indulgences...well Kim knows how my Saturdays go

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Cheat meal every saturday Kim/Big? Is that the way to go or should it be every other?

[daman1]

Cheat meal every saturday Kim/Big? Is that the way to go or should it be every other?

Should be one day EVERY week. And it doesn't have to be Saturday, whenever you want.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Yeah I knew it could be any day....

Ill tell you my biggest problem...Its at night...I diet all day and then at night its hard for me to get the perfect balance of macros...Especially we go out to dinner a lot...I have still managed to drop from 245 to 180(back to 187 after jumping off the starvation diet into the Cut diet again)....

[Kim2884]

Yea, we cheat every week and I think that's what most people do...but you don't have to. I've skipped weeks here and there, and didn't cheat for a month between thanksgiving and christmas. I would suggest maybe not going out to eat as much. Go out on cheat days, it's much more fun...but when you do go out, try to figure out where you're going to go and what you're going to eat in advance so you can plan for it. If I go out to eat, I know i'm almost always going to have either steak or fish and steamed vegetables, and I know I'm gonna have a pretty big portion, so I put it in my diet assessment program before I even go.

[eggplant]

ok..guys..to sum it all up..i would like to know whether doing cardio in the evening will be beneficial for fat lypolysis,and not burn muscle? and..will it be fine if i haf a pro/carb meal as breakfast and pro/fat meals throughout the day leading to cardio in the evening? and how long before shall i wait after my last pro/fat meal to do my cardio in order to have the best fat lypolysis? i'm currently having trouble placing cardio in the morning..

[lxorl]

Do your cardio when it best fits your schedule and stick to it.

[SwoleCat]

I wouldn't say to do it when it best fits a schedule, as if that time came after a carb meal, it would be pointless for purposes of lipolysis.

If u have fat/protein over the course of the day, let's say your last f/p meal is at 3:00 p.m. Make it a no carb whey shake with an EFA in the proper ratios for your goals. Then, an ECA and other pre-cardio aids can be ingested around 4:45-5:00, and a cardio session of 45 mins at 65-75% of MHR at about 5:15 or so, should be pretty darn productive if your protein at 3:00 wasn't too much to lead to gluconeogenesis.

~SC~

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Swole,

If occasionally you cant do Cardio first thing, empty stomatch, is it better to do it in the later afternoon/evening after several P/F meals or to do it like a 2-3 hours after your first meal, a P/F one? My guess would be same difference.....

[eggplant]

how much protein is considered to much swole?? and whats gluconeogenesis?

[AbsolutelyLethal]

It is the digestion of sugar(glucoses)...That's is why he said have a shake without sugar/carbs before....

Read about the biology if you'd like...

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...luconeogenesis

[Ammar]

No flames please but what does EFA stand for???

This thread is great by the way. Real informative. I definitely got new ideas for my cutting diet coming up in about 2 months.

[Vice]

Essential Fatty Acids.

ie. Flax seed oil, Fish oil, Olive oil

[97cobra]

I am cutting right now and I eat a pre-workout meal of a lean meat and one serving of oatmeal(27 g's of carbs) before I workout. Which is about 4:30pm. I start working out at 6:00pm. So I am done working out at around 7:30 and start cardio. This would be ok right. It would be 3 hrs after my last meal which only consisted of 27 carbs and I workout after that meal which would burn some of the cals right.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Cobra,

According to what Ive read here you have a few things wrong...

1) The preworkout low gi carbs probably will not be contributing much because it takes a while to digest. If you think it helps it might be a mental thing. Just save the carbs for Post workout meals 1 and 2....Do a protein and fat meal, if you need the energy boost hit up some ECA...

2) You are already have rampant Cortisol levels after working out...Why risk going even more catabolic with 45 minutes of cardio...There is a reason why you are suppose to have a protein and dextrose shake immediately after working out, not an hour or so later...

3) Even so, I figure 3 hours after eating complex carb isnt enough...I figure you'd be better off eating carbs first thing in the morning and do cardio late afternoon/evening....

[97cobra]

The reason for doing cardio after a w/out is b/c my w/o partner can't do cardio in the morning and it is also kind of hard for me also. I know it is better in the morning but there are guys in my gym that compete and recently have placed 1st and 2nd and another won Mr. Louisiana a few years ago and they do it after a workout also. Cardio is only 30 min. and I live like 6 minutes from the gym, and drink a shake the second I walk in the door. I will try and switch the meal to a pro/fat meal before I workout and see how that goes.

[eggplant]

i believe having some chicken breast with some efa's before cardio is about the same as having a liquid shake with fats?

[Cali]

Ok, somebody here who has all of this down needs to come and live with me for a month so I finally understand the chemistry of all of this!! I'm terrible when it comes to remembering the nutritional equations.

[AbsolutelyLethal]

I have always loved your avatar Cali!!

Ill come live with you...HAHA

Im not sure what equations you are talking about though...
For cutting its generally recommended to do like 1.5-2 g's of protein per lb of lean bodymass...I personally get a nutritional ratio of calories at 50% for protein and 25% for fat and carb on days I workout and 50-35-15(P-F-C) for days I dont workout, fat replaces carb...

For bulking, adding lean muscle mass, I'd say a ratio of 35-40% for Protein, 40-45% for Carbs, and like 20% for fat....

If thats not what you were asking about then whoops...LOL

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Im looking at my diet...How many net carbs do you guys take in on days you workout and days you dont workout...Better said, how much should I be taking in both days?

Workout days Im taking in like 110(roughly 50 from PWO 1 Dextrose, 35 or so from PWO 2 complex carbs, and then like 20-25 from my Pro-rated shakes throughout the day...) Is that enough??

Non-workout, I get like 40-45 grams. I take 25 from the daily shakes and like 15-20 from oatmeal at meal 5....Good enough?