Anadrol info

[randombynature]

Lookin for a point in the right direction.. I noticed everyone in this forum always says "go do your research" well I don't know where it's already bin talked about. So someone anyone wanna send me the links

I need to know everything a beginner needs to know. I just came off my first cycle Sus Injections. I want to switch to Anadrol pill form.

the injecting didn't fair to well for me. I'd wake up in the middle of the night in pain and be stiff and in pain for about 2 weeks

Soooo....

[Times Roman]

Welcome to the board mate!
First things first. Here is a link for you to learn about drol
http://www.steroid.com/Anadrol.phpf

Now, the "warning" part. Anadrol is really not meant to be taken on it's own. Yes, you can take anadrol on it's own, and many people have done so. But, it will do a variety of things, none of them good.

It will surpress your natural testosterone production. Testosterone is the hormone that makes men, well, men! Without testosterone, you face a variety of risks, such as ED, low/no libido, depression, etc....

Drol is also very harsh on the liver. Because of this, if you have any desire for long term health, then certain steps should be taken.

Protect YOUR liver! Take a liver protector such as Milk Thistle, or Liverall. There are a variety of them.
Do not take for prolonged periods of time. Four, maybe six weeks tops. That's it!

I'd advise only adding drol to a test cycle. the injecting didn't make you sore. it was what you were injecting that made you sore. I suspect that you are using an UGL and the type of oil was one you were sensitive to. I'd suggest switching!

Hope this helps!

---Roman

[randombynature]

Thanks. I had the option of anavar . What would you suggest if not drol

[Times Roman]

Thanks. I had the option of anavar. What would you suggest if not drol

I started out where you are now a few years back. It wasn't a fear of the needle. I had a no needles policy in the house with kids. So i was doing orals only. observed some problems. I got past it, and now, for me, i won't do an orals only without a test base. If I had to pick an anabolic as an oral only, it would be var. I still won't do a var only cycle though.

[randombynature]

Alright well, I'm lost then. I'm down for whatever. I have a goal of 2 bills one day. 20lbs by next July. What sort of mix would you suggest. I've got a buddy who can get me whatever. So I'm gonna do something. I just need some direction, help appreciated and wanted. What should I do?

[Times Roman]

I would suggest a solid diet with correct macros, low GV carbs, and minimum 500 cals/day above TDEE. Additionally, a cycle of test at 500mg/week. if p, then 8 week duration, if c or e, then a 12 week duration. make sure you have your pct lined up ahead of time.

this is what i would suggest if it were me.

[randombynature]

Tdee/c/e/p a little more help? What do these mean

[dec11]

with all respect to TR, milk thistle etc is unproven to do anything, my vote is to not waste money on them. i run adrol and dbol combos and my liver has always been fine (get regular bloods due to being on trt)
the secret is to keep orals at sensible doses for a sensible time period, there is a stage on orals where if you pass a certain dose all you gain is more sides, namely high BP.

dbol, no higher than 40mg is required
adrol no higher than 100mg is required
combined, adrol 75mg and dbol 30mg is a nice virtually side free cocktail (for me anyhow)

[Times Roman]

with all respect to TR, milk thistle etc is unproven to do anything, my vote is to not waste money on them. i run adrol and dbol combos and my liver has always been fine (get regular bloods due to being on trt)
the secret is to keep orals at sensible doses for a sensible time period, there is a stage on orals where if you pass a certain dose all you gain is more sides, namely high BP.

dbol, no higher than 40mg is required
adrol no higher than 100mg is required
combined, adrol 75mg and dbol 30mg is a nice virtually side free cocktail (for me anyhow)

we are all here to learn mate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_thistle

Health benefits

Thistle flower

Dried thistle flowers at the end of summer
For many centuries extracts of milk thistle have been recognized as "liver tonics."[3] Research into the biological activity of silymarin and its possible medical uses has been conducted in many countries since the 1970s, but the quality of the research has been uneven.[8] Milk thistle has been reported to have protective effects on the liver and to greatly improve its function. It is typically used to treat liver cirrhosis, chronic hepatitis (liver inflammation), toxin-induced liver damage including the prevention of severe liver damage from Amanita phalloides ('death cap' mushroom poisoning), and gallbladder disorders.[2][9]

Reviews of the literature covering clinical studies of silymarin vary in their conclusions. A review examining studies with a double-blind protocol concluded that milk thistle and its derivatives has no significant effect on mortality or course of disease in individuals with alcoholic and/or hepatitis B or C disease


Toxin-induced liver damage

Research suggests that milk thistle extracts both prevent and repair damage to the liver from toxic chemicals and medications. Workers who had been exposed to vapors from toxic chemicals (toluene and/or xylene) for 5–20 years were given either a standardized milk thistle extract (80% silymarin) or placebo for 30 days.[11] The workers taking the milk thistle extract showed significant improvement in liver function tests (ALT and AST) and platelet counts vs. the placebo group.

[Times Roman]

Tdee/c/e/p a little more help? What do these mean

TDEE (Total daily energy expenditure)
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...gy-Expenditure

c/e/p

these are esthers of testosterone

cypionate http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rone-Cypionate
enanthate http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rone-Enanthate
propionate http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...one-Propionate

the esthers control how quickly and how long the testosterone will remain in the blood stream

[randombynature]

Thanks again

[dec11]

we are all here to learn mate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_thistle

Health benefits

Thistle flower

Dried thistle flowers at the end of summer
For many centuries extracts of milk thistle have been recognized as "liver tonics."[3] Research into the biological activity of silymarin and its possible medical uses has been conducted in many countries since the 1970s, but the quality of the research has been uneven.[8] Milk thistle has been reported to have protective effects on the liver and to greatly improve its function. It is typically used to treat liver cirrhosis, chronic hepatitis (liver inflammation), toxin-induced liver damage including the prevention of severe liver damage from Amanita phalloides ('death cap' mushroom poisoning), and gallbladder disorders.[2][9]

Reviews of the literature covering clinical studies of silymarin vary in their conclusions. A review examining studies with a double-blind protocol concluded that milk thistle and its derivatives has no significant effect on mortality or course of disease in individuals with alcoholic and/or hepatitis B or C disease


Toxin-induced liver damage

Research suggests that milk thistle extracts both prevent and repair damage to the liver from toxic chemicals and medications. Workers who had been exposed to vapors from toxic chemicals (toluene and/or xylene) for 5–20 years were given either a standardized milk thistle extract (80% silymarin) or placebo for 30 days.[11] The workers taking the milk thistle extract showed significant improvement in liver function tests (ALT and AST) and platelet counts vs. the placebo group.

Dr Scally posted an article on them not long ago rubbishing them completely, i wouldnt doubt his word.......

[dec11]

Fried Mw NVJAN, et al. Effect of silymarin (milk thistle) on liver disease in patients with chronic hepatitis c unsuccessfully treated with interferon therapy: A randomized controlled trial. JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association 2012;308(3):274-82. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1217238

Context The botanical product silymarin, an extract of milk thistle, is commonly used by patients to treat chronic liver disease, despite scant and conflicting evidence of its efficacy.

Objective To determine the effect of silymarin on liver disease activity in patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy.

Design, Setting, and Participants Multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial conducted at 4 medical centers in the United States. Participants included 154 persons with chronic HCV infection and serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) levels of 65 U/L or greater who were previously unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy. Enrollment began in May 2008 and was completed in May 2010, with the last follow-up visit completed in March 2011.

Intervention Participants were randomly assigned to receive 420-mg silymarin, 700-mg silymarin, or matching placebo administered 3 times per day for 24 weeks.

Main Outcome Measures The primary outcome measure was serum ALT level of 45 U/L or less (considered within the normal range) or less than 65 U/L, provided this was at least a 50% decline from baseline values. Secondary outcomes included changes in ALT levels, HCV RNA levels, and quality-of-life measures.

Results After 24 weeks of treatment, only 2 participants in each treatment group (P ≥ .99) met the primary outcome measure (3.8% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.2%] for placebo, 4.0% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.7%] for 420-mg silymarin, and 3.8% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.2%] for 700-mg silymarin). The mean decline in serum ALT activity at the end of treatment did not differ significantly (P = .75) across the 3 treatment groups (mean decline, −4.3 [95% CI, −17.3 to 8.7] U/L for placebo, −14.4 [95% CI, −41.6 to 12.7] U/L for 420-mg silymarin, −11.3 [95% CI, −27.9 to 5.4] U/L for 700-mg silymarin); there likewise were no significant differences in HCV RNA levels (mean change, 0.07 [95% CI, −0.05 to 0.18] log10 IU/mL for placebo, −0.03 [95% CI, −0.18 to 0.12] log10IU/mL for 420-mg silymarin, 0.04 [95% CI, −0.08 to 0.16] log10 IU/mL for 700-mg silymarin; P = .54) or quality-of-life measures. The adverse event profile of silymarin was comparable with that of placebo.

Conclusion Higher than customary doses of silymarin did not significantly reduce serum ALT levels more than placebo in participants with chronic HCV infection unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy.

[snowblowjoe]

This goes to Times Roman why do you need only take the milk thistle and liverall for 6 weeks at a time is it dangerous to take it longer than that if so why

[Swifto]

Fried Mw NVJAN, et al. Effect of silymarin (milk thistle) on liver disease in patients with chronic hepatitis c unsuccessfully treated with interferon therapy: A randomized controlled trial. JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association 2012;308(3):274-82. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1217238

Context The botanical product silymarin, an extract of milk thistle, is commonly used by patients to treat chronic liver disease, despite scant and conflicting evidence of its efficacy.

Objective To determine the effect of silymarin on liver disease activity in patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy.

Design, Setting, and Participants Multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial conducted at 4 medical centers in the United States. Participants included 154 persons with chronic HCV infection and serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) levels of 65 U/L or greater who were previously unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy. Enrollment began in May 2008 and was completed in May 2010, with the last follow-up visit completed in March 2011.

Intervention Participants were randomly assigned to receive 420-mg silymarin, 700-mg silymarin, or matching placebo administered 3 times per day for 24 weeks.

Main Outcome Measures The primary outcome measure was serum ALT level of 45 U/L or less (considered within the normal range) or less than 65 U/L, provided this was at least a 50% decline from baseline values. Secondary outcomes included changes in ALT levels, HCV RNA levels, and quality-of-life measures.

Results After 24 weeks of treatment, only 2 participants in each treatment group (P ≥ .99) met the primary outcome measure (3.8% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.2%] for placebo, 4.0% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.7%] for 420-mg silymarin, and 3.8% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.2%] for 700-mg silymarin). The mean decline in serum ALT activity at the end of treatment did not differ significantly (P = .75) across the 3 treatment groups (mean decline, −4.3 [95% CI, −17.3 to 8.7] U/L for placebo, −14.4 [95% CI, −41.6 to 12.7] U/L for 420-mg silymarin, −11.3 [95% CI, −27.9 to 5.4] U/L for 700-mg silymarin); there likewise were no significant differences in HCV RNA levels (mean change, 0.07 [95% CI, −0.05 to 0.18] log10 IU/mL for placebo, −0.03 [95% CI, −0.18 to 0.12] log10IU/mL for 420-mg silymarin, 0.04 [95% CI, −0.08 to 0.16] log10 IU/mL for 700-mg silymarin; P = .54) or quality-of-life measures. The adverse event profile of silymarin was comparable with that of placebo.

Conclusion Higher than customary doses of silymarin did not significantly reduce serum ALT levels more than placebo in participants with chronic HCV infection unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy.

How many steroid users have "chronic HCV infection"?

How many steroid users suffer from "chronic liver desease"?

I used MK at 1.5g/ED after my liver values were 112 (normal is below 49). 6 days later and restested - 33.

F*ck studies. It reduced my values on 60mg/ED Tbol considerably.



This study is more applicable and its on rodents...




NCBI Logo
Resources
How To
Skip to main content
Skip to navigation
About NCBI Accesskeys

My NCBISign In
PubMed
US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health
Search termSearch database
Clear input

Advanced
Help

Result Filters
Display Settings:

Abstract

Send to:

Med Pregl. 2003;56 Suppl 1:79-83.

[Hepatoprotective effects of silymarin in androgenic-anabolic steroid-induced liver damage].

[Article in Serbian]

Radovanović D, Jovanović D, Mihailović D, Ranković G, Stojiljković N, Dimitrov V.
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:

The use and abuse of anabolic -androgenic steroids (AAS) commonly induces liver damage.
MATERIAL AND METHODS:

The study included 40 male Wistar rats, divided into 4 groups of 10 rats each. Animals in the first experimental group (M), were subjected to progressive systematic forced swimming test, 5 days a week, during 8 weeks. Animals in this group were treated with AAS methandienone, 2 mg/kg BW/day, per os, before swimming, 5 d/w for 8 weeks. After swimming, animals were given three times more food than the laboratory animals of the same age and kind. Animals in the second group (M+S), were subjected to progressive forced swimming test, 5 d/w 8 weeks. Animals in this group were treated with methandienone equally as the experimental group M and received the same amount of food. Apart from that, they received silymarin 20 mg/kg BW/day. Animals in the third group (K), represented the control group, which was neither subjected to swimming test, nor treated with methandienone or silymarin. Animals in this group received the same amount of food as animals in groups M and M+S. Animals in the fourth group (C), also represented a control. This group was not exercised nor treated, and animals received a standard amount of food for laboratory animals of this kind and age. Quantitative analysis of obtained hemataxylin-eosin, periodic acid shift and enzymohistochemical preparations was processed using Digital Image Analysis System: Microimage 3.0.
RESULTS:

It was established that processes in the nuclei of animals in groups M and K were significantly more intensive (p<0.001) in relation to groups M+S and C. The investigation of glycogen showed significantly higher density in the cells of groups M and M+S in comparison to groups K and C. Also, there was a significant difference between groups M+S and M. Density of enzyme activity of glutamate dehydrogenase in hepatocytes of animals in the group M+S was significantly higher in relation to the remaining three groups. A statistically significant difference was not found in enzyme activity of succinate dehydrogenase and lactate dehydrogenase.
DISCUSSION:

In cell nuclei of animals in the experimental group M, in the absence of silymarin effect, methandienone causes damages which induce regenerative processes and in this way increase high intensity activity. Silymarin significantly increases the glycogen density in hepatocytes. Increased activities of GDH are attributed to cell vitality.

CONCLUSION:

The present results show hepatoprotective effects of silymarin in androgenic-anabolic steroid induced liver damage.

[Times Roman]

Fried Mw NVJAN, et al. Effect of silymarin (milk thistle) on liver disease in patients with chronic hepatitis c unsuccessfully treated with interferon therapy: A randomized controlled trial. JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association 2012;308(3):274-82. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1217238

Context The botanical product silymarin, an extract of milk thistle, is commonly used by patients to treat chronic liver disease, despite scant and conflicting evidence of its efficacy.

Objective To determine the effect of silymarin on liver disease activity in patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy.

Design, Setting, and Participants Multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial conducted at 4 medical centers in the United States. Participants included 154 persons with chronic HCV infection and serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) levels of 65 U/L or greater who were previously unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy. Enrollment began in May 2008 and was completed in May 2010, with the last follow-up visit completed in March 2011.

Intervention Participants were randomly assigned to receive 420-mg silymarin, 700-mg silymarin, or matching placebo administered 3 times per day for 24 weeks.

Main Outcome Measures The primary outcome measure was serum ALT level of 45 U/L or less (considered within the normal range) or less than 65 U/L, provided this was at least a 50% decline from baseline values. Secondary outcomes included changes in ALT levels, HCV RNA levels, and quality-of-life measures.

Results After 24 weeks of treatment, only 2 participants in each treatment group (P ≥ .99) met the primary outcome measure (3.8% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.2%] for placebo, 4.0% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.7%] for 420-mg silymarin, and 3.8% [95% CI, 0.5% to 13.2%] for 700-mg silymarin). The mean decline in serum ALT activity at the end of treatment did not differ significantly (P = .75) across the 3 treatment groups (mean decline, −4.3 [95% CI, −17.3 to 8.7] U/L for placebo, −14.4 [95% CI, −41.6 to 12.7] U/L for 420-mg silymarin, −11.3 [95% CI, −27.9 to 5.4] U/L for 700-mg silymarin); there likewise were no significant differences in HCV RNA levels (mean change, 0.07 [95% CI, −0.05 to 0.18] log10 IU/mL for placebo, −0.03 [95% CI, −0.18 to 0.12] log10IU/mL for 420-mg silymarin, 0.04 [95% CI, −0.08 to 0.16] log10 IU/mL for 700-mg silymarin; P = .54) or quality-of-life measures. The adverse event profile of silymarin was comparable with that of placebo.

Conclusion Higher than customary doses of silymarin did not significantly reduce serum ALT levels more than placebo in participants with chronic HCV infection unsuccessfully treated with interferon-based therapy.

Dec,
Hep C is really an extreme case, and the illness can last up to a year or longer, and during that time, it is really kicking the shit out of the liver. This is so way beyond anything anyone of us would experience by taking oral steroids , it probably is not a good example for what we are talking about. My #9 above has this to say about liver damage caused by toxic chemicals and meds, and the curative properties of milk thistle:

Toxin-induced liver damage

Research suggests that milk thistle extracts both prevent and repair damage to the liver from toxic chemicals and medications. Workers who had been exposed to vapors from toxic chemicals (toluene and/or xylene) for 5–20 years were given either a standardized milk thistle extract (80% silymarin) or placebo for 30 days.[11] The workers taking the milk thistle extract showed significant improvement in liver function tests (ALT and AST) and platelet counts vs. the placebo group.

I also provided a link. In that link, there are cited references to trials and studies.

[Times Roman]

This goes to Times Roman why do you need only take the milk thistle and liverall for 6 weeks at a time is it dangerous to take it longer than that if so why

there are no sides to milk thistle that i know of. I was taking milk thistle the whole time i was in afghanistan ( one year). See, powdered milk thistle is pretty inexpensive, so i just took it because i wanted to get my liver in tip top shape. I did not drink over there, but typically i do drink. and with the added stress of a few orals i was taking, I just wanted to give it a shot. My liver panels since then have come back excellent, down from only "average"

You take liverprotection for two reasons:
1) a preventative (while taking orals)
2) to heal a damaged liver (when not taking orals)

the liver is an amazing organ, the only one that has the ability to regrow itself a new from a small healthy piece. But it can take a long time, and the reason for the damage needs to have abated. Even with years of abuse with alcholism and liver disease, it is possible, once you stop drinking, and with milk thistle, to regrow a whole new liver.

[dec11]

fair enough. ive run 3 drol/dbol cocktails in the last year and values came back perfect a week after each one, why on earth would one need to waste money on these so called protectors? the point of that study i reckon, was the fact that they DID NOTHING at all.

your call, i wouldnt bother wasting cash on them tbh, i find them unnecessary and the only reason i ever bothered with them in the first place was through broscience.