Undergrad Biochem Student with plans on testing numerous UGL's via Mass Spectrometry.

**Macedon93** · 03-27-2013, 07:57 AM

Hello everyone, I am 20 years old and have finally decided to join this forum after years of viewing as a guest. The sole purpose of creating this account is to publish forthcoming Mass Spectrometry analysis of various UGL and their products. I have access to a mass spectrometer at my university and perform lab experiments with it periodically. I have absolutely no affiliation with any UGL nor am i faithfully biased from one laboratory to another, I am simply doing this as a service to myself and those who are in my position. I am very skeptical of the numerous manufacturers out there and I refuse to ingest anything that can cause my body serious harm. Due to my connections with a University affiliated laboratory i am a perfect candidate to share these findings with the members on this forum. As for the types of products and UGL's (whether they can be named outright, I am under the impression that we can) I will be happy to perform examinations of the most popular UGL's out there. Regardless of your inquiries I will be commencing analysis of Geneza Pharmaceutical's Oral line. However i do have other multiple UGL's at my disposal. Thanks guys and i look forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions. If there is ample interest on the step by step process of analysis i would be pleased to explain. Thanks !

**ChosenGenetics** · 03-27-2013, 09:27 AM

I'm Interested in the steps of testing? What results would you be able to provide? How much of a sample would you need?

**REBORN52** · 03-27-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Macedon93

Hello everyone, I am 20 years old and have finally decided to join this forum after years of viewing as a guest. The sole purpose of creating this account is to publish forthcoming Mass Spectrometry analysis of various UGL and their products. I have access to a mass spectrometer at my university and perform lab experiments with it periodically. I have absolutely no affiliation with any UGL nor am i faithfully biased from one laboratory to another, I am simply doing this as a service to myself and those who are in my position. I am very skeptical of the numerous manufacturers out there and I refuse to ingest anything that can cause my body serious harm. Due to my connections with a University affiliated laboratory i am a perfect candidate to share these findings with the members on this forum. As for the types of products and UGL's (whether they can be named outright, I am under the impression that we can) I will be happy to perform examinations of the most popular UGL's out there. Regardless of your inquiries I will be commencing analysis of Geneza Pharmaceutical's Oral line. However i do have other multiple UGL's at my disposal. Thanks guys and i look forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions. If there is ample interest on the step by step process of analysis i would be pleased to explain. Thanks !

Soooooooo, I'm going to say what everyone else is thinking, but how long have you been on the task force? LOL.....

**MuscleInk** · 03-27-2013, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Macedon93

Hello everyone, I am 20 years old and have finally decided to join this forum after years of viewing as a guest. The sole purpose of creating this account is to publish forthcoming Mass Spectrometry analysis of various UGL and their products. I have access to a mass spectrometer at my university and perform lab experiments with it periodically. I have absolutely no affiliation with any UGL nor am i faithfully biased from one laboratory to another, I am simply doing this as a service to myself and those who are in my position. I am very skeptical of the numerous manufacturers out there and I refuse to ingest anything that can cause my body serious harm. Due to my connections with a University affiliated laboratory i am a perfect candidate to share these findings with the members on this forum. As for the types of products and UGL's (whether they can be named outright, I am under the impression that we can) I will be happy to perform examinations of the most popular UGL's out there. Regardless of your inquiries I will be commencing analysis of Geneza Pharmaceutical's Oral line. However i do have other multiple UGL's at my disposal. Thanks guys and i look forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions. If there is ample interest on the step by step process of analysis i would be pleased to explain. Thanks !

Is this part of a funded study?
Is the study sponsored or cosponsored?
Will results be published in a peer reviewed journal?
Are the UGLs aware of your intent to perform a mass spect and publicly disseminate your results?
How many UGLs will you be comparing?
How many compounds will you be comparing?
How many samples will you use in each category?
Will there be a control or standard to compare products (such as Pharma grade compounds)?

MuscleInk

**Macedon93** · 03-27-2013, 01:40 PM

Lol appreciate the concern but im not affiliated with any police force. Just a pharmacist in training who wants to examine some products that are out there

**Macedon93** · 03-27-2013, 02:04 PM

Muscle Ink i appreciate the inquisition. To answer your questions

Is this part of a funded study ?- Unfortunately this is not a funded study, in fact i didn't even try to present it to the Chem/Biochem department for a grant and qualification for publishing to a respected scientific journal. The logistics don't match up due to the fact that i am analyzing non-professional, non-state regulated alternative prescription medications. Im afraid that would cause quite a stir and much confusion if were to be published at all, it wouldn't have any right to be there in the first place.

Is this study sponsored or cosponsored- No this lab analysis will be performed at my own expense with no affiliation to any UGL.

Published to peer reviewed journal ?- Answered

Are UGL's aware of my experiment in process- No, i don't see a need for them to be made aware. My chemistry course just finished analyzing the amount of Brand Name active ingredient in antacids using NaOh titration and a Thymol Blue as an indicator and then made analyses of the differences. My point is no permission was needed to be granted with even reputable companies.

How many UGL's/compounds will you be comparing- This is up for forum discussion and suggestions. Since i have ample amounts of GP, those will definitely be analyzed regardless of other considerations.

How many samples will you use in each category ?- Please elaborate.

Will there be a control standard, such as pharmagrade products ?- No, there is no need. I will be a be able to determine each pills chemical composition and Molecular formula using the mass spectrometer. If the known active ingredients are there, well they are there. I will compare these only with their advertised dosage and chemical makeup.

**MuscleInk** · 03-27-2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Macedon93

Muscle Ink i appreciate the inquisition. To answer your questions

Is this part of a funded study ?- Unfortunately this is not a funded study, in fact i didn't even try to present it to the Chem/Biochem department for a grant and qualification for publishing to a respected scientific journal. The logistics don't match up due to the fact that i am analyzing non-professional, non-state regulated alternative prescription medications. Im afraid that would cause quite a stir and much confusion if were to be published at all, it wouldn't have any right to be there in the first place.

Is this study sponsored or cosponsored- No this lab analysis will be performed at my own expense with no affiliation to any UGL.

Published to peer reviewed journal ?- Answered

Are UGL's aware of my experiment in process- No, i don't see a need for them to be made aware. My chemistry course just finished analyzing the amount of Brand Name active ingredient in antacids using NaOh titration and a Thymol Blue as an indicator and then made analyses of the differences. My point is no permission was needed to be granted with even reputable companies.

How many UGL's/compounds will you be comparing- This is up for forum discussion and suggestions. Since i have ample amounts of GP, those will definitely be analyzed regardless of other considerations.

How many samples will you use in each category ?- Please elaborate.

Will there be a control standard, such as pharmagrade products ?- No, there is no need. I will be a be able to determine each pills chemical composition and Molecular formula using the mass spectrometer. If the known active ingredients are there, well they are there. I will compare these only with their advertised dosage and chemical makeup.

Thanks Mace. I was formerly a professor at a university and publishing scientist before turning to clinical practice. I was also an advisor for several MSc students. I now own and operate a drug development company as well - hence the depth of my inquiries.

With respect to samples within a category, lets assume, for example you wanted to do a mass spect on anavar . I was wondering (1) how many samples will you analyze within a company to test for content consistency (i.e. would you perform a mass spect on several samples to see if there is any variability between analyses) and (2) how many products within this category (anavar in this example) would you compare across UGLs (e.g. 5 UGLs, more, less?)

It would provide a great comparison in your data set if you could use a "gold standard" such as a Pharma grade compound. The UGLs are biosimilars or "me too" compounds and it would be insightful to know how well UGL products match up against a gold standard on a mass spect analysis. Would they be identical to the gold standard and if not, by how much would they deviate. An interesting scientific question.

I agree about the publication aspect. Since these compounds are viewed as taboo by most, I'm sure you'd have some resistance in attempting to publish.

An interesting theoretical exploration nonetheless!

MuscleInk

**Lunk1** · 03-27-2013, 04:15 PM

How many UGL compounds do you have access to? There are thousands of UGL out there...with the exception of a handfull of well known ones...how do you expect to get ahold of the many UGL compounds that ppl would like to see tested.

For example...if I was curios about the quality of Lunks Lab Tren (no such thing by the way) how would you go about getting some of the product for testing???

**MuscleInk** · 03-27-2013, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

How many UGL compounds do you have access to? There are thousands of UGL out there...with the exception of a handfull of well known ones...how do you expect to get ahold of the many UGL compounds that ppl would like to see tested.

For example...if I was curios about the quality of Lunks Lab Tren (no such thing by the way) how would you go about getting some of the product for testing???

Can I buy Lunk's Lab Tren in April?????????

MuscleInk

**Lunk1** · 03-27-2013, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Can I buy Lunk's Lab Tren in April?????????

MuscleInk

All out....stayin away from that stuff for a while. Besides it has to be stacked with DQ Blizzards

**MuscleInk** · 03-27-2013, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

All out....stayin away from that stuff for a while. Besides it has to be stacked with DQ Blizzards

All out!?!?! Damn its THAT good huh????

I'll probably still be cutting in April. No DQ stacks for this guy.

MuscleInk

**Macedon93** · 03-27-2013, 04:54 PM

Lunk1, reasonable Inquiry.
The testing will be based on what UGL's I can get a hold of, I obviously cannot test products that aren't at my disposal. Once enough suggestions and input is given from members on the forum I'd be happy to disclose what I can get. In the meantime the labs at my current disposal are Geneza, Quality Direct, Nuvanna, British Dispensary, multiple Supposed HG sustanons and enanthates (organon/zafa), among others. Along with some domestic brands based on East Coast, USA.

**Macedon93** · 03-27-2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

With respect to samples within a category, lets assume, for example you wanted to do a mass spect on anavar . I was wondering (1) how many samples will you analyze within a company to test for content consistency (i.e. would you perform a mass spect on several samples to see if there is any variability between analyses) and (2) how many products within this category (anavar in this example) would you compare across UGLs (e.g. 5 UGLs, more, less?)

It would provide a great comparison in your data set if you could use a "gold standard" such as a Pharma grade compound. The UGLs are biosimilars or "me too" compounds and it would be insightful to know how well UGL products match up against a gold standard on a mass spect analysis. Would they be identical to the gold standard and if not, by how much would they deviate. An interesting scientific question.

Muscle Ink, congrats on your worldliness in the science field, not easy stuff.

Plan is as follows, the first product i plan on subjecting to the mass spectrometer is GP Turan. I will analyze five 10mg tablets from five seperate packages. The amount of average active ingredient, if any, will be averaged per pack. (based on the five seperate pills), along with buffer-fillers and other impurities. Percentage will be broken down between active ingredient and all else for each pill individually. In regards to the "gold standard" comparisons, i will acquire a scientifically published Mass Spectrometry Analysis Data Sub-sheet for that of Oral Turinabol . This will be done for all UGL's and their products. If there is enough support for this research i will be happy to post a in depth Step-By-Step Lab report and methodology of examination. For the moment well keep things general. Thanks !

**MickeyKnox** · 03-27-2013, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

All out....stayin away from that stuff for a while. Besides it has to be stacked with DQ Blizzards

Wait a second! I though the DQ's were for PCT!?? Oh man im in trouble!

**MickeyKnox** · 03-27-2013, 05:43 PM

MI,

Fabulous questions bro. I didn't know you were a former Prof and publishing scientist?? Im getting a woody..dont tell Lunk..

**MuscleInk** · 03-27-2013, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

MI,

Fabulous questions bro. I didn't know you were a former Prof and publishing scientist?? Im getting a woody..dont tell Lunk..

Past academic days. Lol. Co-authored a few text books, 40 pubs, journal editor.....but grew tired of the bureaucracy in academic circles and a lot of the incremental research that gets done. Did my biz degree and ran like hell from academia. Wouldn't mind teaching again....someday. Lol

Don't get too impressed. Pubs never excited me the way it did many academicians. Lol

MuscleInk

**Macedon93** · 03-29-2013, 01:39 PM

Just to keep this updated, testing of GP- Turan will begin next week.

**BBJT200** · 04-02-2013, 04:43 PM

interesting thread. i've thought about doing this myself at the college I attend

**Macedon93** · 04-04-2013, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by BBJT200

interesting thread. i've thought about doing this myself at the college I attend

Yea lets hope these results come back conclusive, rented out the spec for tom afternoon.

**JRam1** · 04-14-2013, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Macedon93

Yea lets hope these results come back conclusive, rented out the spec for tom afternoon.

Anything yet?

**Papiriqui** · 04-15-2013, 08:21 AM

Yeah i wouldnt mind seeing results on common UGLs to see their legitimacy based on the dosages of their compounds. Thanks for the heads up Mace!

**Macedon93** · 04-15-2013, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by JRam1

Anything yet?

Mass spectrometer was hogged up by graduate assistants all last week. However I managed to get some time on it last Friday, and Saturday. I was only able to subject a few samples and needless to say the results were surprising. A few more samples will be needed before I post anything up here for the community. A full lab report, with pics, and equations(for sake of any arguments) will be posted when I feel everything is ready.

**JRam1** · 04-17-2013, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Macedon93

Mass spectrometer was hogged up by graduate assistants all last week. However I managed to get some time on it last Friday, and Saturday. I was only able to subject a few samples and needless to say the results were surprising. A few more samples will be needed before I post anything up here for the community. A full lab report, with pics, and equations(for sake of any arguments) will be posted when I feel everything is ready.

Thx for the response and looking forward to the results.

**Vagabond101** · 04-20-2013, 01:30 PM

Well I'm glued to this study as well. It's hard to purchase UGL test when your afraid your butt cheek might fall off after the shot. I'm to old to lose my but cheek!

**snowblowjoe** · 04-25-2013, 09:19 PM

This thread is going nowhere

**Macedon93** · 04-25-2013, 09:57 PM

Great opinion but there's no need for an attitude. Now I'm in finals at school, as you could imagine I'm very busy and I have no time to run more tests. If your eager for results there's a more respectable way to go about it. Some more time is needed.

**Pac Man** · 05-06-2013, 09:23 PM

If you do a quick look around there are MSA labs posted on other sites for about 30 different labs that I've seen. Some good, some bad, some awesome

**urapunk** · 05-25-2013, 07:50 PM

Any results yet???

**snowblowjoe** · 05-25-2013, 09:14 PM

I predict NO

**tdoe11** · 05-28-2013, 07:15 PM

????

**jimmyfingers** · 06-04-2013, 04:15 AM

Mass spect is a great tool. but if he cannot post in pdf form the printout from the machine it is a worthless venture. Plenty of people have done this is this past saying something like XYZ chem is 1.9845 pure. This tells us nothing. We need to see to the printouts. He can blackout any info that might lead to his identity.