All you need to know about GYNO.

**neverenuff21** · 04-24-2006, 04:28 PM

I had a little gyno from some tren a while back, Heard from a couple places that winny might help. So I took some winny for 4 weeks at 50 mgs orally a day. Gyno shrunk up A LOT! Any one know why this is?

**briansauras** · 04-24-2006, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Until I can read more into co-administration of nolva and letro I would drop the nolva, I see absolutely no need for it while on high doses of letro.

...

**Cocklyaev** · 04-25-2006, 01:05 AM

I am in a pretty far stage of my gyno because my endocrinologist assured me that it would go away by itself...and then i stumbled onto forums like this...it is from a cycle that was almost 7 months ago...on paper, im fine, but i still have pretty painful and annoying gyno...i still think theres a chance of reversal, even with all the time ive waited...and i wanted to know if this scenario sounds right to the gyno pro's here.... start/load up on letrozole for the recommended minimum of .25mg a day(maybe double on the second week?) for 2 weeks before my cycle...and keep taking during my cycle along with everything else i need to support my body(by the way, in your guys opinion, is it ok to take the letro for all of that combined time, 2 weeks load, 4-6 cycle?).. stop taking the letrozole as soon as my cycle ends...and immediately start pct....with all that said, i hope it will reverse my gyno or in the least prevent any more of it...im am really interested in what the gyno guru's have to say....thanks in advance

**Crazyindagym** · 04-25-2006, 01:39 AM

C BINO,

I have a question regarding gyno as well--hoping to get some advice. My stats are 215lbs,22yrs old, 2 years lifting,6'0 ft,18% BF. I began a cycle of oxodrol 12 (a higher dosed-12mg which is basically the same product as superdrol). Gyno symptoms flared up on the second day of use. I did not have anything on hand (dumb, I now KNOW) other then an AI called IDS Aromastin Rx. I discontinued the use of oxodrol and one day later stopped using the Aromastin RX as well. About 5-6 days later the symptoms were cleared up completely. I think that the gyno symptoms I experienced were from progesterone as I did not have a large lump but my nipples were puffy,softer,constantly erect, and sensitive to the touch.

There isn't much info out there on oxodrol but plenty on superdrol which beleive me, I have spent HOURS and HOURS sifting through threads on various forums such as this one to find a lot of people giving "advice" without even mentioning the fact that they have had experience with the same product--they simply reitterate what they have read from others; leading to misinformation.

I would like to start another cycle of oxodrol 12 SOON but am nervous of the gyno symptoms flaring up again, I don't need to reverse gyno--just prevent it. I have been told from NUMEROUS people that nolvadex in moderate doses--10/20mg--while ON cycle would prevent gyno symptoms from appearing and let my cycle take its course but yet I read here on your thread that "Nolva will do NOTHING for gyno." Care to comment?

Also, I've read countless threads saying that an AI is ESSENTIAL to have during PCT for gyno prevention but others saying that an AI could help to cause gyno. On the other hand, I've read that Nolva can even cause gyno!?!?
Just hoping that you could clear me up on that...

I was planning on running a 3 week cycle of oxodrol 12--low dosage to assess tolerance as I seem to be freakin' susceptible to anything/everything these days. -------Will look like (please comment or critique)NOTE:I'm taking all the "basic" supporting supplements that should be taken with any PH/steroid use --just don't feel like typing it all out.
1st week: Oxodrol --12mg Nolva 10mg
2nd week: Oxodrol -- 24mg Nolva 20mg
3rd week: Oxodrol -- 24mg Nolva 20mg

PCT: 3 week
Starting higher then tapering down of: Nolva, AX Retain, and Rebount XT

**Cocklyaev** · 04-25-2006, 01:51 AM

or better yet....is it better to taper up to 2.5mg from 0.25mg of letro till the gyno is gone, and then just maintain at .25mg or .5mg, before the cycle, or during the cycle? then continuing on to pct

**C_Bino** · 04-25-2006, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Slickmikey

I am in a pretty far stage of my gyno because my endocrinologist assured me that it would go away by itself...and then i stumbled onto forums like this...it is from a cycle that was almost 7 months ago...on paper, im fine, but i still have pretty painful and annoying gyno...i still think theres a chance of reversal, even with all the time ive waited...and i wanted to know if this scenario sounds right to the gyno pro's here.... start/load up on letrozole for the recommended minimum of .25mg a day(maybe double on the second week?) for 2 weeks before my cycle...and keep taking during my cycle along with everything else i need to support my body(by the way, in your guys opinion, is it ok to take the letro for all of that combined time, 2 weeks load, 4-6 cycle?).. stop taking the letrozole as soon as my cycle ends...and immediately start pct....with all that said, i hope it will reverse my gyno or in the least prevent any more of it...im am really interested in what the gyno guru's have to say....thanks in advance

Yes that is fine to do, you can take letro ED for as long as your cycle lasts. I would suggest if you wanna reverse the gyno that you start taking it a couple weeks before the cyclse at .25mg ED and then taper up once you get on cycle to 2.5mg (just so your sex drive isnt gone before cycle) and keep it at that dose until you are happy that your gyno is disappearing. But I will tell you that 7months is quite a while, so its not a sure thing at all. And did you tell your endo that you got the gyno because of roids? Because he was right to tell you it will most likely go away on its own if it was from puberty. Most of the time, this is the case with gyno from puberty.

**C_Bino** · 04-25-2006, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Crazyindagym

C BINO,

I would like to start another cycle of oxodrol 12 SOON but am nervous of the gyno symptoms flaring up again, I don't need to reverse gyno--just prevent it. I have been told from NUMEROUS people that nolvadex in moderate doses--10/20mg--while ON cycle would prevent gyno symptoms from appearing and let my cycle take its course but yet I read here on your thread that "Nolva will do NOTHING for gyno." Care to comment? I said it will do nothing to reverse it. It can be used as an anti-e on cycle to prevent it though.

Also, I've read countless threads saying that an AI is ESSENTIAL to have during PCT for gyno prevention but others saying that an AI could help to cause gyno. On the other hand, I've read that Nolva can even cause gyno!?!?
Just hoping that you could clear me up on that...You dont need an AI in PCT at all, it is done by some but a lot of people just use nolva+clomid. Nolva wont cause gyno, the only way you could get gyno from an AI or SERM is during a large estrogen rebound, dont worry about that.

I was planning on running a 3 week cycle of oxodrol 12--low dosage to assess tolerance as I seem to be freakin' susceptible to anything/everything these days. -------Will look like (please comment or critique)NOTE:I'm taking all the "basic" supporting supplements that should be taken with any PH/steroid use --just don't feel like typing it all out.
1st week: Oxodrol --12mg Nolva 10mg
2nd week: Oxodrol -- 24mg Nolva 20mg
3rd week: Oxodrol -- 24mg Nolva 20mg

PCT: 3 week
Starting higher then tapering down of: Nolva, AX Retain, and Rebount XT

The cycle seems ok, but I dont know much about oxodrol 12, I would just run Test E if I was you instead of using orals. But it seems ok, I would use clomid with your nolva in PCT and forget about these OTC crap products.

**antijavier** · 04-25-2006, 07:15 PM

Hey big C.. what would you reccomend i do if i didn't take care of my gyno problem from my last cycle? it was 3 years ago.. and i still have moderate gyno..

**IBdmfkr** · 04-25-2006, 07:50 PM

After reading through this thread again I realize many ppl either don't know what AI's are so they grew tits and now want them to go away or their is a spreading epidemic of bitchtits that is going around.

**Cocklyaev** · 04-25-2006, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Yes that is fine to do, you can take letro ED for as long as your cycle lasts. I would suggest if you wanna reverse the gyno that you start taking it a couple weeks before the cyclse at .25mg ED and then taper up once you get on cycle to 2.5mg (just so your sex drive isnt gone before cycle) and keep it at that dose until you are happy that your gyno is disappearing. But I will tell you that 7months is quite a while, so its not a sure thing at all. And did you tell your endo that you got the gyno because of roids? Because he was right to tell you it will most likely go away on its own if it was from puberty. Most of the time, this is the case with gyno from puberty.

Thanks Bino, thats what i thought...just wanted to make sure....and yea, i told my endocronologist exactly what i took that caused the gyno (pheraplex and superdrol, big surprise), so he was aware it wasnt puberty gyno...and yea, i ended my cycle at around november and developed this stage of gyno a little later..so i would say ive had it here for a good 5 months, but i have had gyno almost happen years ago, went to my physician because my nipples itched and i had no idea what that was back then, so he gave me Vanos cream and i thought it worked, but i guess the gyno luckily stopped developing by itself..and came back, and with a vengeance this cycle around, due to improper pct....so...if the letro doesnt work im stuck with painful, sensitive woman nip unless i spring for surgery? thats not too good

**Crazyindagym** · 04-26-2006, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

The cycle seems ok, but I dont know much about oxodrol 12, I would just run Test E if I was you instead of using orals. But it seems ok, I would use clomid with your nolva in PCT and forget about these OTC crap products.

Thanks for the response man.
Well, I was thinking about the clomid, but have read lots of threads with people who have had vision issues. I realize that everyone is different, but I'm kinda nervous to take the chance which is why I was going to settle for the reboundxt, BUT then again it is "OTC" so your probably right with it being crap. As far as the test E, I'm not an injectable person...I'd personally rather take the orals+ I am only doing a 3 week LIGHT cycle so liver damage will be at a minimum.

Now I know that clomid/nolvadex are very similar and are both SERM'S, but please correct me if I'm wrong...the only reason to take clomid along with nolva would be to boost the natty test levels up???--cuz nolva is more effective at preventing estrogen sides and adding the clomid in this respect would only add to estrogen protection, correct???

One more question if you don't mind...Like I stated before, I beleive that my gyno symptoms that I got from oxodrol was progesterone induced as I did not have hard lumps but just puffyness,itchyness, and erect nipples. Would nolva still be ok to use to prevent gyno flare up or should I look into a prog blocker?

**C_Bino** · 04-26-2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Crazyindagym

Thanks for the response man.
Well, I was thinking about the clomid, but have read lots of threads with people who have had vision issues. I realize that everyone is different, but I'm kinda nervous to take the chance which is why I was going to settle for the reboundxt, BUT then again it is "OTC" so your probably right with it being crap. As far as the test E, I'm not an injectable person...I'd personally rather take the orals+ I am only doing a 3 week LIGHT cycle so liver damage will be at a minimum.Ya most of the OTC stuff is just really not up to par, and we need something better when we are dealing with steroids. Vision problem is, like you said purely personal, and not a sure thing but does happen.

Now I know that clomid/nolvadex are very similar and are both SERM'S, but please correct me if I'm wrong...the only reason to take clomid along with nolva would be to boost the natty test levels up???--cuz nolva is more effective at preventing estrogen sides and adding the clomid in this respect would only add to estrogen protection, correct???Ya clomid helps to bring test back up to normal range when you come off, but nolva would be a better choice for an anti-e on cycle.

One more question if you don't mind...Like I stated before, I beleive that my gyno symptoms that I got from oxodrol was progesterone induced as I did not have hard lumps but just puffyness,itchyness, and erect nipples. Would nolva still be ok to use to prevent gyno flare up or should I look into a prog blocker?

If its prog gyno then yes use at least b6 or something of the sort. Bromo is the main one people use, I use b6 and never have a prob but everyone is dif. That being said if you use letro on cycle you wont have to worry about either, with no estrogen there can be no progesterone gyno either.

**dirtyvegas** · 04-26-2006, 02:39 PM

vary nice

**Natural1** · 04-26-2006, 09:52 PM

Alright Bino, Ive been using the letro @ 2.5 for about a week now, not seeing results.....

Should I still continue at this dosage until I do see something? How long before I should just call it quits and start to taper down?

**C_Bino** · 04-27-2006, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Natural1

Alright Bino, Ive been using the letro @ 2.5 for about a week now, not seeing results.....

Should I still continue at this dosage until I do see something? How long before I should just call it quits and start to taper down?

Run it for as long as you feel pretty much, sometimes it can take a while depending on the circumstances, big k.l.g has some good info that I will be looking into and posting in teh enar future about long term gyno cases.

A week isnt too long though, I would run it a month before I gave up, it does take a little while to stabilize.

**HUNTER1** · 04-27-2006, 10:04 PM

Good post C

**Natural1** · 04-28-2006, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Run it for as long as you feel pretty much, sometimes it can take a while depending on the circumstances, big k.l.g has some good info that I will be looking into and posting in teh enar future about long term gyno cases.

A week isnt too long though, I would run it a month before I gave up, it does take a little while to stabilize.

Sounds good, should I remain at the same (2.5/day) dosage? How much do you this this is affecting my gains right now?

**novicenovicen** · 04-28-2006, 10:59 AM

blimp

**splash** · 04-28-2006, 09:36 PM

Bino,
I have a question about this last part:

QUOTE FROM "All you need to know about GYNO"

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone :estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

I'm NOT going to do anymore cycles. I'm 40yrs. 210# 6'2" I did 3 cycles of M1-Test 4 weeks on 4 weeks off like the bottle suggested. Never did any PCT. That was 4-6 months ago then I went to the Arnold Classic and got duffle bag of stuff and just started taking it... I got NO idea what I took... I know you don't have to tell me.... Now just take whey protein, NO2 products and energy drinks. So the Gyno is a delayed event. One nipple has a lump that is palpable 1cm x 1cm. The other nipple feels like a lump might be trying to start.

THE QUESTION IS: Is the nolva needed after coming down from the letro if there isn't going to be another cycle? Thanks in advance!

**venomm** · 04-29-2006, 12:17 AM

Great post and almost answer all of my Questions that i have in my head about gyno and AI's and SERM.its a great help for some1 like me who is going to start his first cycle..i just have 1 more q, as you said 'You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood'. As a matter of fact i am gonna start m cycle approx 2 weeks from tomm...so should i start taking letro from lets say tomm @ .25mgEd
thnx Bino for the great post once again.

**kesh227** · 04-29-2006, 06:03 AM

Hey Bino,

I have a question about running letro before and during the cycle. should I keep the letro at .25mgED from two weeks out until the end of the cycle, or should i move up once the cycle starts? Also, I was told to run Nolva and Adex during the cycle, are you saying I should just run letro instead? Finally if I do run letro,should I run it upto the last week before pct, and then commence with regular pct (clomid)? Thanks very much for your help.

**marcus300** · 04-30-2006, 12:04 PM

Bump

**C_Bino** · 04-30-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by splash

Bino,
THE QUESTION IS: Is the nolva needed after coming down from the letro if there isn't going to be another cycle? Thanks in advance!

Yes, this will help to reduce chances of estro-rebound. Your body doesnt know if you are going to run another cycle or not right? So eitherway it will give you an estrogen rebound, whether you are thinking of doing another cycle or not.

**C_Bino** · 04-30-2006, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by kesh227

Hey Bino,

I have a question about running letro before and during the cycle. should I keep the letro at .25mgED from two weeks out until the end of the cycle, or should i move up once the cycle starts? Also, I was told to run Nolva and Adex during the cycle, are you saying I should just run letro instead? Finally if I do run letro,should I run it upto the last week before pct, and then commence with regular pct (clomid)? Thanks very much for your help.

Keep it consistant throughout that cycle. .25mg ED is fine, no need to increase it at any point unless you notice yourself starting to get gyno. And yes what Im saying is that Letro can replace the need for Arimidex and Nolvadex . Also run it right up to PCT.

**eljugo16** · 05-01-2006, 01:14 AM

great info def on the top of my list... hopefully won't have to use it anytime soon

**marcus300** · 05-01-2006, 01:17 PM

|^^^^^^^

**castertroy** · 05-07-2006, 07:49 PM

well i've been using the letro to get rid of my bad case of gyno and its slowly going away. i had guno for a few weeks from a cycle and im in my 2nd week of using letro and its working fine. the lump was getting pretty big fast, and even doubled in size within 2 weeks, but now thanks to this post its down to a small pees size. which is about 1 third of what it was a week ago.
i dont wanna jinx it but by this pace, it should be gone 100% in 2 weeks max.
i cant say how thankfull i am for this post, it was starting to look real bad.
extra advice:
remeber to do all the reseach u can before cycles, all these cases of gyno could have been avoided before hand with enough research. i didnt know one thing about taking nolva between cycle and pct and i cought a bad case of gyno right away. save yourself some hardship and $$$ and make sure u know how to protect urself from gyno and anything else during and after cycle.

thanks again bino, i'll let u know if it goes away completely in the next couple weeks.

**C_Bino** · 05-07-2006, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by castertroy

well i've been using the letro to get rid of my bad case of gyno and its slowly going away. i had guno for a few weeks from a cycle and im in my 2nd week of using letro and its working fine. the lump was getting pretty big fast, and even doubled in size within 2 weeks, but now thanks to this post its down to a small pees size. which is about 1 third of what it was a week ago.
i dont wanna jinx it but by this pace, it should be gone 100% in 2 weeks max.
i cant say how thankfull i am for this post, it was starting to look real bad.
extra advice:
remeber to do all the reseach u can before cycles, all these cases of gyno could have been avoided before hand with enough research. i didnt know one thing about taking nolva between cycle and pct and i cought a bad case of gyno right away. save yourself some hardship and $$$ and make sure u know how to protect urself from gyno and anything else during and after cycle.
thanks again bino, i'll let u know if it goes away completely in the next couple weeks.

Great advice bro, thanks for posting your results, Im glad it is working out for you. Good luck with the rest.

**highnmighty** · 05-07-2006, 08:32 PM

Hey Bino, Im actually running 20mgs Aromasin right now on day 12. Im not on a cycle just running it solo and just added 10mgs eod of Nolva. I want to lean out as much as possible before I start my Tbol cycle. I have leaned out a bit, however, if I keep taking it will I lean out more. I am at 15% bf and holding it mostly in my stomach and love handles. I want to get rid of this. Should I run the Aromasin another 2 weeks or so, or should I switch to Letro and then back to Aromasin at the end to combat rebound estro? See I wasn't sure if Aromasin has the ability to penetrate fat cells like Letro.

**C_Bino** · 05-07-2006, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by highnmighty

Hey Bino, Im actually running 20mgs Aromasin right now on day 12. Im not on a cycle just running it solo and just added 10mgs eod of Nolva. I want to lean out as much as possible before I start my Tbol cycle. I have leaned out a bit, however, if I keep taking it will I lean out more. I am at 15% bf and holding it mostly in my stomach and love handles. I want to get rid of this. Should I run the Aromasin another 2 weeks or so, or should I switch to Letro and then back to Aromasin at the end to combat rebound estro? See I wasn't sure if Aromasin has the ability to penetrate fat cells like Letro.

I made a post earlier in this thread about weight loss and letro. I will repost it for you. My position on it is that it really wont give you teh reults you want...

As for the question about fat-loss (sorry I missed it before, i accidentally skimmed over it). The only thing I can say is that femara has been used in studies to treat obesity. Since serum testosterone can be somewhat lower in obese males due to the slowed synthesis of LH and FSH production, letro has been shown to normalize these serum test levels, as we all know LH and FSH increase with the use of letro and testosterone obviously aids in weight loss we can assume that letro can be used to help with weightloss. However, testosterone levels are only diminished in cases of fairly severe obesity. For most people just looking to lean up more on this site I somewhat question the ability for letro to do the trick so to speak.

If you do want to give this a try I see no problem with doing it off cycle, the normal dose in studies of obesity and testosterone profiles was again 2.5mg per day.

Anyways, to finish off I would honestly say you would be better off using an ECA stack or clen (even though Im not a big fan), over letro. If you are on cycle you could try using letro even if you dont need an AI to see if there is any difference but I would say again running test (usually at a minimum dose of 500mg per week) the impact of letro on weight loss will be slight to say the least, imo you wont be able to notice a difference.

**highnmighty** · 05-07-2006, 08:42 PM

Ok thank you, so I will stick with the Aromasin for another 2 weeks and actually just bought an ECA stack and will start tomorrow. Im sure with this combo of an AI/SERM/ECA stack I should loose some body fat then I will start my cycle.

Excellent thread by the way, lot's of good info here!!!

**FranKieC** · 05-07-2006, 09:35 PM

bump

**55CID** · 05-08-2006, 07:50 AM

Goood work! BUMP! BUMP!

**skr0w** · 05-08-2006, 11:35 AM

Bino,
If someone is doing a 12 week cycle of deca (weeks 1-12)300mg Sus (1-8)250mg. Can you use .25 of letro the whole cycle to keep from getting gyno. Or is that too long. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

**C_Bino** · 05-08-2006, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by skr0w

Bino,
If someone is doing a 12 week cycle of deca (weeks 1-12)300mg Sus (1-8)250mg. Can you use .25 of letro the whole cycle to keep from getting gyno. Or is that too long. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Yes you can run it the entire way through, I have run it for longer.

**speakerman** · 05-08-2006, 08:08 PM

Definite lump, but no pain when squeezing it or any obvious sensitivity... gyno or no? Just 8 days into 15mg/ED Pheraplex.

**TheSentinal** · 05-09-2006, 04:27 AM

Bino - Seems like guys worried about gyno are doing 1000 mg or more weekly. You have any knowledge of where gyno is more probable depending on dose or type of gear? I just havn't seen people talk about this at lower doses like 500 mg per week. What do you think?

**farrebarre** · 05-09-2006, 04:39 AM

whats up c bino, just had a question, im gonna have a surgery to remove my gyno, im gonna ask the him to remove everything, not even leave anything for the cave in look, does that mean i can never get gyno again or is it still possible ??
i searched for an answer but some say it wont ever come back some say it will. thnx for any help

**speakerman** · 05-09-2006, 08:35 AM

So if you use letro on-cycle, will that kill gains or they will still continue? I've always heard drasticly lowering estrogen is bad for gains.

Also, I'm still slightly confused about Letro PCT. Are you saying I could add letro at .25mg/day, then run the gyno-reversal plan when the cycle ENDS, THEN do Nolva for a couple weeks?

**styxecl** · 05-09-2006, 12:59 PM

bino! im on a stack of 500 mg test e per week. i unfortunately got gyno from my first badly adviced stack (followed one of the model stacks on steroid .com before i found this forum).

was taking .5mg per day of letrozole for 2 weeks before this stack, began 5 weeks ago, and noticed puffyness around nipples and the lumps were gradually got bigger. have now been takin 2.5 mg per day for around a week and cant say ive noticed the puffyness go away...if anything its continued to get worse

this is odd! can you suggest anything?! thanks