HRT therapy

[c2todd]

male.age 63.6 feet 3 inches. 205 pds.started hrt 3 months ago with XXX in Hallandale FL USA.Genotropin 0.4mg 1 IU per day.Came in factory cartons. Lost 2 inches off waist in 8 weeks but no increase in lean mass noted.Modern Therapy suggested I add testosterone. I told them test makes my feet swell.They then suggested nandralone.I received my order of Somatotropin and nandrolone from Applied Pharmacy Services, Mobile, AL All pharmacy compounded.After 5 weeks absolutely no results( 200 mg nandrolone per week.) Are these products genuine or am I doing something wrong?

[darmadoc]

What are you hoping to accomplish with that regimen? In terms of muscle building, the dose seems rather low. You may be expecting too much from "anti-aging" therapy. I think the goal is more "well-being" tighter skin, etc.

[bigcut77]

That is a really low dose of both compounds. You will not see a whole lot of results in the form of muscle mass from those doses. Applied Pharmacy makes a good product your doses are probably to low for your goals. At 63 that is more of a well being type dose. Also i would never take nadrolone by itself at any dosage with out some test. Especially at 63 years of age. Just my opinion. See what some of the other guys say.

[The Baron]

male.age 63.6 feet 3 inches. 205 pds.started hrt 3 months ago with Modern Therapy in Hallandale FL USA.Genotropin 0.4mg 1 IU per day.Came in factory cartons. Lost 2 inches off waist in 8 weeks but no increase in lean mass noted.Modern Therapy suggested I add testosterone. I told them test makes my feet swell.They then suggested nandralone.I received my order of Somatotropin and nandrolone from Applied Pharmacy Services, Mobile, AL All pharmacy compounded.After 5 weeks absolutely no results( 200 mg nandrolone per week.) Are these products genuine or am I doing something wrong?

Probably a low dose of nolva would have prevented your feet swelling from the test. It is just fluid retention caused by estrogen, a product of aromatization of testosterone.

Nandrolone should generally be stacked with test. 200mg nandrolone per week would work well with 250mg test cyp or enanthate per week. And you would not see much in the way of body composition changes until week 5 or 6, even stacking the two drugs. Were you planning on cycling, or are you just modifying your hrt? BTW the 250/200 dosing would be considered extremely light, as a cycle for building mass. Gains would be less than impressive, but noticeable. Usually this stack would be done at twice those dosages. In a bodybuilding cycle protocol, the deca (nandrolone decanoate) would be used for at least 10 weeks, up to maybe 14 weeks, and the test continued for a week beyond the deca, with PCT 2 or 3 weeks after last shot. As part of hrt, lower doses would be indicated, and 250 test / 200 deca would be nice to try for 3 or 4 months.

Generally, we don't spell out the full name of clinics or sources, btw. It can bring them unwanted attention. All bets are off for sponsors, though, since their names and urls are all over the board, anyway.

[c2todd]

thanks for the replys and info especially the Baron.I apologize for posting the names of suppliers. I see your point about uneeded exposure.
I also see from the replies tha the dose and lenght of treatment is really not sufficient to gain much lean mass.I therefore added a 6% test lotion applied daily( I dont want more ijections)Plus 10mg tomoxifin. Im more interested in hrt than 30 pds of muscle but would like to add at least 10 pds as I am tall and skinny
To the Baron: I intend to cycle the following regimen 12 weeks on 8 weeks off.
1 IU gh 6 days per week
200 mg nandrolone/week
6% test lotion daily
(mg per week unkown)
Will this regimen add 10 pds mass? Any sugestions will be appreciated

[The Baron]

The test is the wild card. You want to have the test higher than the deca. If you don't know how much injectable test your lotion is equivelant to, I would go with injectable test. Run 250 or 300mg per week. You can draw both up into the same syringe. No need to shoot them seperately. Use cyp or enanth, or any other long ester, but not prop or suspension or a blend with short esters in it.

As for adding 10lb of mass, you can do that without any gear at all. If you won't do what you must do to make such a modest gain, then gear won't magically make it happen, either. You must teach yourself to eat and train before you will see stellar results from gear.

As far as recreational bodybuilding protocol goes, normally one does a cycle of test only, first. There are lots of reasons for this and I won't spell them all out because it would be a long post. Use the search tool to find relevant threads to read. Your SECOND real cycle can be a stack, and cyp or enanth stacked with deca is very popular, and has a proven track record. Nothing exotic... just plain old plain old. It works. Normally, as I mentioned, for semi-serious bulking, you would use 500mg test with 400mg deca. With proper diet (you don't have that, yet) and proper training (you probably don't have that yet, either... if you had both, you would be bigger.) you could expect to see at least 10 lbs of kept, solid, quality muscle. What you propose is pretty iffy, since you don't know how much test you are getting. 10lbs? Yeah, maybe possible, but only if you already know how to eat and train for mass. 10lbs of bodyweight gain, piece of cake. But I assume you want muscle, not fat. You will also gain a bit of water, which of course disappears like magic.

[darmadoc]

If you tell us exactly what the test lotion says, I bet we can figure out the amount you are actually absorbing.

[c2todd]

Thanks again to Darmadoc and The Baron for the constructve criticism.I see the importance of adjusting my diet and training to accomplish my goal of adding 10 pds of muscle in the next year regardless of the meds I am taking(which according to Mike Mentzer-adding 10 pds of actual muscle in one year-is an astronomical feat if not impossible).Ill follow your advice on the test and cycling and keep you informed on my progress.
All the test lotion bottle says is:Active igredients:6% USP testosterone,propyene glycol,etc. 34ml. Dosage 1 ml per day.

[latman32]

Can anyone here help C2Todd? The guy just wants to gain up to about 10-15 lbs of lean mass. At 63 and with 200 of Deca(for HRT) that should be plenty!!!!!!!

[kaorialfred]

If you tell us exactly what the test lotion says, I bet we can figure out the amount you are actually absorbing.

so what is the answer?

[The Baron]

The recommended dose will give you APPROXIMATELY 60mg/ED topical, which is probably equivelant to about 20mg injected. You would want to go at least go 3x the recommended dose, I am thinking. Maybe 5x. Better off just sticking with injectable. Dosing is more sure and more predictable.

[darmadoc]

It is still hard to figure out. My guess is that you are absorbing less than 6mg/day at best. That is in the medium range for replacement.

[bluethunder]

No need to go any higher on the test. Extra test is not going to add 10 lbs of lean muscle mass if your diet and training is notup to par. My guess is that you have always lacked the training and/or nutrition and now you hope for some miracle here. Why are some saying to increase? At your age prostate enlargement and cancer is a real possibility. Benign Prostate Hypertrphy is real .Upping the dose will greatly harm you.

Proper advice is limited because we know nothing of your stats and past experiences as well as your overall health. At 63 yrs I commend you for trying to better your self but my advice is to seek proper medical guidance IN PERSON for your answers.

[darmadoc]

I am certainly not saying to increase. I still am having trouble figuring out how much he is on. What we need to know is how many grams of gel is in 1 ml.

[Axe]

From my experience with HgH and test/deca, he's using too little to see significant results. I didn't detect anything from 1iU of HgH but maybe that's me. Rather than mess around with the gel, I'd stick with the deca/test and do 200 on deca and 250 on test. That's strong for HRT but should be very moderate on side effects.

Like the other guys said, the real effect is going to come if you combine this with 3-4 hours per week of hard gym work (maybe with a trainer) and some aerobic exercise. I went from 192lbs to 225lbs (BF from 12% to 8%) without doing massive cycles over a 2 year period. It's just consistent exercise and eating right. The HRT will help give you the energy for that more active lifestyle.

Good luck!

[Ranman]

I've been on HGH for about 2.5 yrs 1.87iu/day for 5 days weekends off. I have also been doing Tes Cyp and Deca at 1ml each per week for 10 week cycles and taking 10 weeks off with PCT. I like to hold my weight at 205 and I'm 5'9". I got the triple tes and started a cycle with one ml on monday in May. I went to the ergent care center because I was very dizzy the next day. Turns out it was a inter ear infection but My BP was 150/85. I was nervious and that was part of it but I stoped the triple tes and started taking my own BP at night before I go to bed. After 6 weeks it's 133/70 witch is good. So I started my GH back again and will see if I have any rise in BP with it alone. If it dosen't I want to go on the triple tes cycle. Any body know how much their BP goes up with AS? I just take a ml per week and have seen great gains or should I say I have gotn back to how I looked when I competed in my early 30's. I'm 48 and really would like to keep this up but don't want to end up with Kidney damage from the high BP.

[Axe]

It goes up for sure. I have about your normal level and it goes up to 150/85 during a cycle due to more water retention. I can't tell you whether it hurts you or not. For myself, I figure it's ok since lots of people have higher. I believe the bottom number is the one to be particularly concerned aboutr.

[The Baron]

yet another good reason to add a small dose of nolva ED. It knocks your fluid retention down quite a bit.

[Two4the$$]

Dude, why is this guy getting DECA prescribed to him as HRT? Thats absolutely goofy. I mean, GOOOOOFY!

Your prostate can be kept in check with Proscar... but there will be other serious considerations, like blood pressure. This guy could run something like 300mg Test and 3iu of GH and probably get great results... I'm just concerned about the age issue, and other potential problems. Plus, you gain mass from doing strenuous workouts... which means your ligaments, tendons, and joints will have to bear this surprising about of force, which will actually increase at a SUPER human rate, because that's what a steroid does. It gives to a man that which likely no man to date has ever been born with. So, as your strength increases at a rate your body isn't prepared to adapt to... things could go wrong at that age... and recovery, with or without HGH isn't going to be quick I would imagine.

Just my 2cc's worth.

[LuckyDragon]

yet another good reason to add a small dose of nolva ED. It knocks your fluid retention down quite a bit.

Have heard everything from Nolva to Adex, to Letro. Anyways, people have mentioned that Nolva alone doesnt usually do much for knocking down the water retention. The one that seems to be popular is Adex .25mg and Nolva 10mg per day.


You are on TRT correct, do you find Nolva knocks out the water retention?