androgel side effects

[clb1]

I have been on androgel for approx 6 wks. It has been a very good experience so far. but in the last few days I have had an elevated heart rate. about 85 bts per min resting. My normal resting rate is around 60. I am 44 yrs old. I went to see a cardiologist when I started to feel my heart beating irregular. He did an ekg and it was normal. as was my bp 120/77. I have had several stress tests in the past several yrs due to a strong family history. All have been normal. The dr went over my meds that I now take lexapro for anxiety and toperlol for heart rate and bp. When he saw that I was on androgel he immediately went off on the do you really know what you are taking? You are taking roids just like mlb players and bodybuilders. I told him that I had educated myself and I did indeed know what I was taking probably more than he knows. any how does anyone heard of an elevated hrt rate due to androgel? I am on one tube a day. thx alot

[Ufa]

No sides for me.

[harleyman]

Ive been on androgel for about 5months now never noticed any problem with my heart rate. i get a little headache every now and then i have to take avodart for my prostate but thats the only other side affect i get from it.

[zaggahamma]

you gettin good gains from the gel, Ufa?

[clb1]

just started back lifting due to very serious back injury and surgery. I definately think the gel is working. I feel pumped alot quicker. and I am much stronger.

[zaggahamma]

hope the back holds up good for you...i know what that's like...one turn the wrong way...

[Ufa]

you gettin good gains from the gel, Ufa?

Actually, I get the shots..150mg weekly. I use a little Decca Gel.
Both help. I also take Saizen GH. The american GH. Plus a little
Anvar. Low dose on all. I had a bad back with buldging disc's. Now
I am fine. No back pain. No nasty pain killers. Life is good.

[zaggahamma]

AWESOME man! Great groceries you got there !

[Stroked]

My doctor prescribed Androgel and after I took the first 6 doses, I had an ischemic stroke. I guess I need a good attorney.

[bodyrokk]

i never had any heart problems until i started taking test cyp 100mg weekly..now i have anxiety and afib..new dr says i have low progesterone and it could be cause.

[Brazensol]

I've been on it for about 5 weeks and have had no side effects. Other than it NOT working. Can't wait for injections. Maybe I need a lawyer too?

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

This would be the wrong site for me to even start a discussion of what a bad idea taking testosterone for less than serous illness is... but... if anyone does have a major side effect or know someone who did... the manufacturer may have some liability... just sayin'

According to its manufacturer, AbbVie, AndroGel 1% and 1.62% are controlled substances, available by prescription, used to treat adult males who have low or no testosterone. The AndroGel site offers the following ten question yes-no quiz to see whether a man should talk to his “doctor about Low Testosterone :

1. Do you have a decrease in libido?
2. Do you have a lack of energy?
3. Do you have a decrease in strength and/or endurance?
4. Have you lost height?
5. Have you noticed a decrease in your enjoyment of life?
6. Are you sad and/or grumpy?
7. Are your erections less strong?
8. Have you noticed a recent deterioration in your ability to play sports?
9. Are you falling asleep after dinner?
10. Has there been a recent deterioration in your work performance?

The ten questions might just as well ask, “Are you getting old?” or “Are you naturally aging?” Snake oil salesmen have been selling fountain of youth elixirs since people starting getting old. Fortunately, most snake oils are only harmful to the purchaser's wallet as many of the alleged aging cures are harmless. However, once in a while a potion does contain harmful ingredients or actual medicinal compounds which have major physiological effects. AndroGel seems to be promoted as the cure for a newly discovered disease called, "Low T." However, its safety is in question.

On January 31, 2014, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a Safety Announcement regarding testosterone products. This communication stated, "At this time, FDA has not concluded that FDA-approved testosterone treatment increases the risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. Patients should not stop taking prescribed testosterone products without first discussing any questions or concerns with their health care professionals. Health care professionals should consider whether the benefits of FDA-approved testosterone treatment is likely to exceed the potential risks of treatment. The prescribing information in the labels of FDA-approved testosterone products should be followed." While the beginning of this Safety Announcement might not seem alarming, the FDA further states, "None of the FDA-approved testosterone products are approved for use in men with low testosterone levels who lack an associated medical condition. FDA-approved testosterone formulations include the topical gel, transdermal patch, buccal system (applied to upper gum or inner cheek), and injection."

What is “an associated medical condition?” The manufacturers of some testosterone products would have one believe that Low T (the condition of having low testosterone levels) is an associated medical condition to the condition of having low testosterone. If you think this is strange logic, you would be correct. There are some who feel that the manufacturers of some testosterone products, realizing that they had a profitable "cure" for a disease that did not exist, simply invented a disease with ten associated symptoms (see quiz above). Recent studies have shown that certain groups of men taking testosterone will have increased risks of stroke and heart attack. Lawsuits are now being filed against the manufacturers of some testosterone products and for failing to warn consumers about the deadly harm that testosterone can cause. Without getting technical, testosterone has been shown to increase the red blood count (thickening of the blood) which can cause clotting issues leading to stroke and heart attack.

If your physician has prescribed testosterone for you, you should immediately discuss whether you truly need it and whether there are safer alternatives. After weighing the risks and benefits, you and your physician can determine what, if anything, is best for you.

If you or a loved one, have taken AndroGel, and have suffered a stroke, you should immediately consult with his physician and then consult with an attorney who is experienced in handling such a matter.

- Paul

Paul J. Molinaro, M.D., J.D.
Attorney at Law, Physician

[kelkel]

Paul that's a very informative first post. Thank you.

Welcome aboard!

Kel

[BallSak]

Hi Paul, what type of medicine do you practice?

Elevated RBC's is common knowledge around here, but, unfortunately, so many men out there are not aware of how to manage hormone replacement properly. What we need is more doctors educated on these matters so that their patients get trained on this.

[APIs]

Did you guys actually read his post? Paul's a lawyer apparently using this site to fish for clientele like you see on TV ads as of late...

[kelkel]

Did you guys actually read his post? Paul's a lawyer apparently using this site to fish for clientele like you see on TV ads as of late...

I did but didn't take it that way. Upon re-reading it I could see that's a possibility......hope not though.

(hello Metal)

[Times Roman]

here's one dirty little side most don't talk about when using gels...

you rub it on, right? did you know that if your woman comes in contact with where you rubbed it on, she too will absorb some testosterone ? or your kids? last thing you want is for your woman to start growing hair on her chin...............

[Metalject]

This would be the wrong site for me to even start a discussion of what a bad idea taking testosterone for less than serous illness is... but... if anyone does have a major side effect or know someone who did... the manufacturer may have some liability... just sayin'

According to its manufacturer, AbbVie, AndroGel 1% and 1.62% are controlled substances, available by prescription, used to treat adult males who have low or no testosterone. The AndroGel site offers the following ten question yes-no quiz to see whether a man should talk to his “doctor about Low Testosterone :

1. Do you have a decrease in libido?
2. Do you have a lack of energy?
3. Do you have a decrease in strength and/or endurance?
4. Have you lost height?
5. Have you noticed a decrease in your enjoyment of life?
6. Are you sad and/or grumpy?
7. Are your erections less strong?
8. Have you noticed a recent deterioration in your ability to play sports?
9. Are you falling asleep after dinner?
10. Has there been a recent deterioration in your work performance?

The ten questions might just as well ask, “Are you getting old?” or “Are you naturally aging?” Snake oil salesmen have been selling fountain of youth elixirs since people starting getting old. Fortunately, most snake oils are only harmful to the purchaser's wallet as many of the alleged aging cures are harmless. However, once in a while a potion does contain harmful ingredients or actual medicinal compounds which have major physiological effects. AndroGel seems to be promoted as the cure for a newly discovered disease called, "Low T." However, its safety is in question.

On January 31, 2014, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a Safety Announcement regarding testosterone products. This communication stated, "At this time, FDA has not concluded that FDA-approved testosterone treatment increases the risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. Patients should not stop taking prescribed testosterone products without first discussing any questions or concerns with their health care professionals. Health care professionals should consider whether the benefits of FDA-approved testosterone treatment is likely to exceed the potential risks of treatment. The prescribing information in the labels of FDA-approved testosterone products should be followed." While the beginning of this Safety Announcement might not seem alarming, the FDA further states, "None of the FDA-approved testosterone products are approved for use in men with low testosterone levels who lack an associated medical condition. FDA-approved testosterone formulations include the topical gel, transdermal patch, buccal system (applied to upper gum or inner cheek), and injection."

What is “an associated medical condition?” The manufacturers of some testosterone products would have one believe that Low T (the condition of having low testosterone levels) is an associated medical condition to the condition of having low testosterone. If you think this is strange logic, you would be correct. There are some who feel that the manufacturers of some testosterone products, realizing that they had a profitable "cure" for a disease that did not exist, simply invented a disease with ten associated symptoms (see quiz above). Recent studies have shown that certain groups of men taking testosterone will have increased risks of stroke and heart attack. Lawsuits are now being filed against the manufacturers of some testosterone products and for failing to warn consumers about the deadly harm that testosterone can cause. Without getting technical, testosterone has been shown to increase the red blood count (thickening of the blood) which can cause clotting issues leading to stroke and heart attack.

If your physician has prescribed testosterone for you, you should immediately discuss whether you truly need it and whether there are safer alternatives. After weighing the risks and benefits, you and your physician can determine what, if anything, is best for you.

If you or a loved one, have taken AndroGel, and have suffered a stroke, you should immediately consult with his physician and then consult with an attorney who is experienced in handling such a matter.

- Paul

Paul J. Molinaro, M.D., J.D.
Attorney at Law, Physician

Out of curiosity, if you were in court how would you proceed based on this facts?

1. Your above remarks largely stem from the two studies this past fall (V.A, JAMA). Being that neither study followed the recommendations of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologist, American Society for Reproductive Medicine, The Endocrine Society, etc. how can the studies hold any validity? Meaning, they gave testosterone to men and sent them on their way. There was no followup blood work, no monitoring - there was nothing. No physician that practices TRT in the U.S. does this.

2. A large portion of the men in the studies had preexisting cardiovascular conditions, including heart attacks in numerous cases. And you would say?

3. You referred to the " a newly discovered disease" what defines new? How long does something have to exist before it's no longer new? Schering first made testosterone commercially available in 1937 under the brand name Testoviron . This particular brand would remain dominant for more than 20yrs and was used heavily and successfully for the purpose of treating low testosterone throughout Europe and eventually most of the western world, except in the U.S. There are countless studies, data and information that now go back for nearly a century that support the condition of low testosterone being very real, and as of today, testosterone itself the only remedy. Makes sense doesn't it? If your car is out of gas what would you put in the tank? If it's a 20yr old car would you say, it's old, and old cars don't need gas?

4. "Are you getting old?" Can we agree that there are numerous things that can occur due to age? Leaving testosterone aside, when certain things occur do we do what we can to remedy them or do we throw our hands up and say "It's just part of aging and I'm happy to suffer"? If a person ages and their bones become weak (osteoporosis), while it can be caused by numerous things, age itself is the primary factor. Should it be treated or should you suffer? What if the brain begins to deteriorate? If there are options to help a man protect his brain should we help him or let him bathe in his own drool? What about your eyes? Almost everyone's eyes get worse with age - should you shrug your shoulders and let yourself go blind? How is testosterone any different?

5. Final question: The ingredients in testosterone, the brand itself isn't important, is testosterone. If you take man made testosterone or naturally occurring and place the two side by side under a microscope, carbon for carbon they are identical. We cannot call it a substance your body is unfamiliar with, so how can you? If a man's treatment is monitored and the necessary precautions are taken, what should prevent this man from remedying his low level condition? Of course this also takes us back to number 3, you'd first have to accept that it is a real condition.

[Metalject]

here's one dirty little side most don't talk about when using gels...

you rub it on, right? did you know that if your woman comes in contact with where you rubbed it on, she too will absorb some testosterone? or your kids? last thing you want is for your woman to start growing hair on her chin...............

It's not as big of a problem as once thought. Here's some good info:

AndroGel (1.62%) Secondary Exposure

A new set of safety studies on AndroGel 1.62% were recently published (1-3), which examined the potential for accidental transfer of testosterone to others. The findings were relatively consistent with previous studies on AndroGel and other transdermal testosterones, though the specifics may still be of interest to readers concerned with this. The main transfer experiments in this case involved applying AndroGel 1.62% to a patient with low testosterone at varying sites such as the abdomen, shoulders, and/or upper arms. At 2 hours and 12 hours after, contact with a female partner was supervised for 15 minutes. In some cases, a t-shirt was worn by the man. In others, the contact was skin on skin. A standard dose of the new formula (2.5 g or 5 g) was by the men
Women who came into direct skin on skin contact with the men after abdominal application noticed a spike in their testosterone levels by 86-185%. The levels, however, remained within the normal range for females, suggesting the exposure risk was not great. Surprisingly, the use of a t-shirt reduced the hormone exposure to female partners only by 40-48%; it did not completely protect against hormone transfer. Other areas of application on the body proved much less troublesome than the abdomen, which is presumably why the shoulders and arms are recommended on this new version of AndroGel. Note that in no instance was the transfer problematic in this experiment (no side effects were reported in the women).
For those still concerned about accidental transfer of hormone to others, washing with soap and water before contact (also studied by this group) remains the best method of prevention. On average, this removed more than 80% of hormone residue from the skin. Furthermore, provided enough time is given after applying the hormone, washing should not greatly influence the therapeutic value of treatment. When the men showered 10 hours after application, there was no significant change in their hormone levels at all (it was almost completely absorbed at that point). Even when showering at 2 and 6 hours after application, serum testosterone levels were only reduced by 10-14%.

AndroGel (1.62%) Secondary Exposure : William Llewellyn, Sports Nutrition Scientist

References:

(1) Serum testosterone levels in non-dosed females after secondary exposure to 1.62% testosterone gel: effects of clothing barrier on testosterone absorption. Stahlman J, Britto M, Fitzpatrick S, McWhirter C, Testino SA, Brennan JJ, Zumbrunnen TL. Curr Med Res Opin. 2011 Dec 22.

(2) Effect of application site, clothing barrier, and application site washing on testosterone transfer with a 1.62% testosterone gel. Jodi S, Margaret B, Sherahe F, Cecilia M, Samuel AT, John JB, Troy LZ. Curr Med Res Opin. 2011 Dec 22.

(3) Effects of skin washing on systemic absorption of testosterone in hypogonadal males after administration of 1.62% testosterone gel. Jodi S, Margaret B, Sherahe F, Cecilia M, Samuel AT, John JB, Troy LZ. Curr Med Res Opin. 2011 Dec 20.

[kelkel]

Out of curiosity, if you were in court how would you proceed based on this facts?

1. Your above remarks largely stem from the two studies this past fall (V.A, JAMA). Being that neither study followed the recommendations of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologist, American Society for Reproductive Medicine, The Endocrine Society, etc. how can the studies hold any validity? Meaning, they gave testosterone to men and sent them on their way. There was no followup blood work, no monitoring - there was nothing. No physician that practices TRT in the U.S. does this.

2. A large portion of the men in the studies had preexisting cardiovascular conditions, including heart attacks in numerous cases. And you would say?

3. You referred to the " a newly discovered disease" what defines new? How long does something have to exist before it's no longer new? Schering first made testosterone commercially available in 1937 under the brand name Testoviron . This particular brand would remain dominant for more than 20yrs and was used heavily and successfully for the purpose of treating low testosterone throughout Europe and eventually most of the western world, except in the U.S. There are countless studies, data and information that now go back for nearly a century that support the condition of low testosterone being very real, and as of today, testosterone itself the only remedy. Makes sense doesn't it? If your car is out of gas what would you put in the tank? If it's a 20yr old car would you say, it's old, and old cars don't need gas?

4. "Are you getting old?" Can we agree that there are numerous things that can occur due to age? Leaving testosterone aside, when certain things occur do we do what we can to remedy them or do we throw our hands up and say "It's just part of aging and I'm happy to suffer"? If a person ages and their bones become weak (osteoporosis), while it can be caused by numerous things, age itself is the primary factor. Should it be treated or should you suffer? What if the brain begins to deteriorate? If there are options to help a man protect his brain should we help him or let him bathe in his own drool? What about your eyes? Almost everyone's eyes get worse with age - should you shrug your shoulders and let yourself go blind? How is testosterone any different?

5. Final question: The ingredients in testosterone, the brand itself isn't important, is testosterone. If you take man made testosterone or naturally occurring and place the two side by side under a microscope, carbon for carbon they are identical. We cannot call it a substance your body is unfamiliar with, so how can you? If a man's treatment is monitored and the necessary precautions are taken, what should prevent this man from remedying his low level condition? Of course this also takes us back to number 3, you'd first have to accept that it is a real condition.

Outstanding post.

[bullshark99]

Not to be a cynic but API you took the words right out of my mouth, especially when I saw it's his first post. Hope I'm wrong, would be nice to have another unbiased MD on the board...

[Metalject]

Not to be a cynic but API you took the words right out of my mouth, especially when I saw it's his first post. Hope I'm wrong, would be nice to have another unbiased MD on the board...

The guy's an attorney and this is as good of a place as any to advertise. Think about it, this site gets more views than any other related to testosterone , and most of the views are not from registered members of the site, they're passerby's. Anyway, I do not expect my post to be responded to as I suspect his OP was just that, advertisement, as well as a copy paste post, but it would be nice to hear someone defend those points rather than listening to myself talk, lol!

[BallSak]

Did you guys actually read his post? Paul's a lawyer apparently using this site to fish for clientele like you see on TV ads as of late...

Yes, and I was respectfully trying to give him a chance to redeem himself from coming across as the asshole that many attorneys are.

[Black]

Yes, and I was respectfully trying to give him a chance to redeem himself from coming across as the asshole that many attorneys are.

Many? You mean ALL, right?

[BallSak]

Out of curiosity, if you were in court how would you proceed based on this facts?

1. Your above remarks largely stem from the two studies this past fall (V.A, JAMA). Being that neither study followed the recommendations of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologist, American Society for Reproductive Medicine, The Endocrine Society, etc. how can the studies hold any validity? Meaning, they gave testosterone to men and sent them on their way. There was no followup blood work, no monitoring - there was nothing. No physician that practices TRT in the U.S. does this.

2. A large portion of the men in the studies had preexisting cardiovascular conditions, including heart attacks in numerous cases. And you would say?

3. You referred to the " a newly discovered disease" what defines new? How long does something have to exist before it's no longer new? Schering first made testosterone commercially available in 1937 under the brand name Testoviron . This particular brand would remain dominant for more than 20yrs and was used heavily and successfully for the purpose of treating low testosterone throughout Europe and eventually most of the western world, except in the U.S. There are countless studies, data and information that now go back for nearly a century that support the condition of low testosterone being very real, and as of today, testosterone itself the only remedy. Makes sense doesn't it? If your car is out of gas what would you put in the tank? If it's a 20yr old car would you say, it's old, and old cars don't need gas?

4. "Are you getting old?" Can we agree that there are numerous things that can occur due to age? Leaving testosterone aside, when certain things occur do we do what we can to remedy them or do we throw our hands up and say "It's just part of aging and I'm happy to suffer"? If a person ages and their bones become weak (osteoporosis), while it can be caused by numerous things, age itself is the primary factor. Should it be treated or should you suffer? What if the brain begins to deteriorate? If there are options to help a man protect his brain should we help him or let him bathe in his own drool? What about your eyes? Almost everyone's eyes get worse with age - should you shrug your shoulders and let yourself go blind? How is testosterone any different?

5. Final question: The ingredients in testosterone, the brand itself isn't important, is testosterone. If you take man made testosterone or naturally occurring and place the two side by side under a microscope, carbon for carbon they are identical. We cannot call it a substance your body is unfamiliar with, so how can you? If a man's treatment is monitored and the necessary precautions are taken, what should prevent this man from remedying his low level condition? Of course this also takes us back to number 3, you'd first have to accept that it is a real condition.

Metal, kudos on the amount of time and effort you put into this rebuttal. I always enjoy your knowledgeable posts.

[BallSak]

Many? You mean ALL, right?

Haha. Pretty much.

[Times Roman]

It's not as big of a problem as once thought. Here's some good info:
AndroGel (1.62%) Secondary Exposure

A new set of safety studies on AndroGel 1.62% were recently published (1-3), which examined the potential for accidental transfer of testosterone to others. The findings were relatively consistent with previous studies on AndroGel and other transdermal testosterones, though the specifics may still be of interest to readers concerned with this. The main transfer experiments in this case involved applying AndroGel 1.62% to a patient with low testosterone at varying sites such as the abdomen, shoulders, and/or upper arms. At 2 hours and 12 hours after, contact with a female partner was supervised for 15 minutes. In some cases, a t-shirt was worn by the man. In others, the contact was skin on skin. A standard dose of the new formula (2.5 g or 5 g) was by the men
Women who came into direct skin on skin contact with the men after abdominal application noticed a spike in their testosterone levels by 86-185%. The levels, however, remained within the normal range for females, suggesting the exposure risk was not great. Surprisingly, the use of a t-shirt reduced the hormone exposure to female partners only by 40-48%; it did not completely protect against hormone transfer. Other areas of application on the body proved much less troublesome than the abdomen, which is presumably why the shoulders and arms are recommended on this new version of AndroGel. Note that in no instance was the transfer problematic in this experiment (no side effects were reported in the women).
For those still concerned about accidental transfer of hormone to others, washing with soap and water before contact (also studied by this group) remains the best method of prevention. On average, this removed more than 80% of hormone residue from the skin. Furthermore, provided enough time is given after applying the hormone, washing should not greatly influence the therapeutic value of treatment. When the men showered 10 hours after application, there was no significant change in their hormone levels at all (it was almost completely absorbed at that point). Even when showering at 2 and 6 hours after application, serum testosterone levels were only reduced by 10-14%.

AndroGel (1.62%) Secondary Exposure : William Llewellyn, Sports Nutrition Scientist

References:

(1) Serum testosterone levels in non-dosed females after secondary exposure to 1.62% testosterone gel: effects of clothing barrier on testosterone absorption. Stahlman J, Britto M, Fitzpatrick S, McWhirter C, Testino SA, Brennan JJ, Zumbrunnen TL. Curr Med Res Opin. 2011 Dec 22.

(2) Effect of application site, clothing barrier, and application site washing on testosterone transfer with a 1.62% testosterone gel. Jodi S, Margaret B, Sherahe F, Cecilia M, Samuel AT, John JB, Troy LZ. Curr Med Res Opin. 2011 Dec 22.

(3) Effects of skin washing on systemic absorption of testosterone in hypogonadal males after administration of 1.62% testosterone gel. Jodi S, Margaret B, Sherahe F, Cecilia M, Samuel AT, John JB, Troy LZ. Curr Med Res Opin. 2011 Dec 20.

old bulls like me sometimes rely on old information. this could be a good example of that

[Metalject]

old bulls like me sometimes rely on old information. this could be a good example of that

We're all guilty of it at one time or another. "Guilty" probably isn't the best word, but I'm sure you understand my meaning. The attorney's post above is a perfect example of this - it's relying on prior thought and ignoring any new information, or in the case of steroids , refusing. Although I'd say (guessing) most attorneys who are focusing on this particular law suit are just taking advantage of that fact.

[jay adams]

I get a feeling the guy in #9 is somehow related to this attorney's advertisement. Could be wrong but you don't see two first time posts set up like that very often.

[BallSak]

Looks like it. But #9 posted 2 years earlier.

[jay adams]

Looks like it. But #9 posted 2 years earlier.

Haha. He's had this planed a long time I tell ya.

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

Whoa… too many comments asking for my reply to hit all in one shot, so let me address what seems to be the gist of the posts…

Yes, that previous post is a cut and paste of posts I made elsewhere, but it is my writing. This new post here is not cut and paste and was written by me right now.

Of course, I am looking for clients, but I’d really rather prevent someone from becoming my client by keeping them from getting injured… sounds corny, especially from a lawyer, but I get enough business from injured people that even if many more patients and “consumers” followed common sense and made informed choices, I would not notice a shortage… so the reason I post is truly to prevent people from making a decision without getting information. The world has never had a shortage or patients or plaintiffs, so my job are secure whether or not I post stuff on the Internet.

Informed consent is a big part of medicine nowadays… that means that a patient should be provided with accurate truthful up to date information to allow an educated decision to be made about a drug or procedure or whatever treatment is recommended… if the patient gets wrong information, he or she is not informed and thus cannot make an informed decision.

So, getting back to testosterone and specifically AndroGel but the other brands as well… this is one profitable “cure” for Big Pharma companies… billions (with a b) of profits are on the line… marketing this Rx as a cure for aging – a youth elixir – the fountain of youth snake oil – well, that is pure genius. Drug companies have been caught keeping information from the public, the FDA, and from physicians… look at Actos, the wonder drug for diabetes that just so happened to cause bladder cancer… look at vaginal mesh… when urologists started to notice that it disintegrated after some time in the woman’s body and opted for other materials, the manufacturer targeted inexperienced edgy Ob/Gyn doctors to use the product… the manufacturer actually called these target doctors “cowboys.” Yup, they wanted the cowboys to use their product when the older wiser doctors would not.

There are studies which have linked AndoGel linked to thickening of the blood and such thickening can cause stroke, among other problems. Should an otherwise healthy male take this drug and add this risk to his health, he should know about this risk… personally, I do not believe the drug is to be used to restore an old man’s testosterone levels to that of a younger man… aging is not a disease… my opinion, of course, but that’s not really the issue. The issue is that if a man wants to take a youth elixir, he or she should be told the truth about its risks and benefits, not just the benefits.

As for what kind of doctor I am… urgent care type medicine for the last 23 years (part time now with attorney being full-time)… so I am no medical expert on AndroGel… However, I know experts on this drug, I certainly can read the studies and literature, but it is not something I have prescribed or would… no urgent emergency type need for it in my field. Should a person want to start this drug, he or she should find a physician who does know all about it… and openly discusses the risks and benefits and allows for a truly informed decision.

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

I trained in Family Practice, but have done almost all urgent care type medicine for over two decades now (23 and counting but that's starting to sound like I'm really old). As for the pharmacodynamics of testosterone supplements Rx, etc., I understand a lot of it, but am by no means an expert on the subject... not like the kinds of people used to testify in court... I would not even be comfortable writing for it as I do not know enough... and, it's not an Rx that would be asked to write - no emergency reasons for testosterone... yes, yes, there are plenty of jokes to make... "Hey doc, hot date tonight and I need to bulk up ASAP and get my libido up... and my nose gets all clogged with the Viagera (spelled wrong as I got some kine of SPAM notice when I went to post this... but Viagera sounds better anyway), so how's about some T?" "Get outa my urgent care!" would be the response from me.

The testosterone seems to have an effect on blood cell production, especially within the first six months of taking it... causing a thickening of the blood... which as one can imagine increases the risk of stroke.

RE: "What we need is more doctors educated on these matters so that their patients get trained on this." Well said!

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

Did you guys actually read his post? Paul's a lawyer apparently using this site to fish for clientele like you see on TV ads as of late...

Nope... see my other post... I really hope no-one needs a lawyer... however, people will always need us... so, I'm not worried about whether someone calls me. Be smart about Rx choices and realize that Big Pharm lies to the public AND physicians... so it's tough to get good information... not impossible... just tough.

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

RE:
Out of curiosity, if you were in court how would you proceed based on this facts?

-- Now these questions come from someone who has done his homework! And that is what I advocate!

1. Your above remarks largely stem from the two studies this past fall (V.A, JAMA). Being that neither study followed the recommendations of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologist, American Society for Reproductive Medicine, The Endocrine Society, etc. how can the studies hold any validity? Meaning, they gave testosterone to men and sent them on their way. There was no followup blood work, no monitoring - there was nothing. No physician that practices TRT in the U.S. does this.
-- Better studies always need to be done… the more people/patients involved the more important accurate and applicable studies are… a recent Science Daily article agrees… www dot sciencedaily dot com /releases/2014/04/140427185220 dot htm

2. A large portion of the men in the studies had preexisting cardiovascular conditions, including heart attacks in numerous cases. And you would say?
-- I would say what you imply… Such studies would likely be deemed bias as to whether younger healthy males have risks.

3. You referred to the "a newly discovered disease" what defines new? How long does something have to exist before it's no longer new? Schering first made testosterone commercially available in 1937 under the brand name Testoviron . This particular brand would remain dominant for more than 20yrs and was used heavily and successfully for the purpose of treating low testosterone throughout Europe and eventually most of the western world, except in the U.S. There are countless studies, data and information that now go back for nearly a century that support the condition of low testosterone being very real, and as of today, testosterone itself the only remedy. Makes sense doesn't it? If your car is out of gas what would you put in the tank? If it's a 20yr old car would you say, it's old, and old cars don't need gas?
-- A car is not a human. There are so many processes that define living and aging and life. If all that we needed to function was oil and gas, then sure replace the oil and gas… but as a human ages there are way too many processes at play to believe that just getting a couple of hormones back to youthful levels would have benefits that outweigh risks… but that’s just my opinion… what is more on point here is that each person can decide whether risks outweigh benefits… but only if he or she has accurate and truthful information on which to rely.

4. "Are you getting old?" Can we agree that there are numerous things that can occur due to age? Leaving testosterone aside, when certain things occur do we do what we can to remedy them or do we throw our hands up and say "It's just part of aging and I'm happy to suffer"? If a person ages and their bones become weak (osteoporosis), while it can be caused by numerous things, age itself is the primary factor. Should it be treated or should you suffer? What if the brain begins to deteriorate? If there are options to help a man protect his brain should we help him or let him bathe in his own drool? What about your eyes? Almost everyone's eyes get worse with age - should you shrug your shoulders and let yourself go blind? How is testosterone any different?
-- Also, excellent points you make. And we do fight osteoporosis with medications… like Fosamax… and Merck just settled for about $27 million with a little less than 1,200 patients who developed osteonecrosis of the jaw from taking the drug. The drug went generic in 2008-9 so, only those people taking the brand name were in the suit. The suit was based on… failure to adequately inform physicians and patients of the risks… not that the drug can’t be used properly but that the drug company put sales ahead of all else.

5. Final question: The ingredients in testosterone, the brand itself isn't important, is testosterone. If you take man made testosterone or naturally occurring and place the two side by side under a microscope, carbon for carbon they are identical. We cannot call it a substance your body is unfamiliar with, so how can you? If a man's treatment is monitored and the necessary precautions are taken, what should prevent this man from remedying his low level condition? Of course this also takes us back to number 3, you'd first have to accept that it is a real condition.
-- If “treatment is monitored and the necessary precautions are taken,” and the patient is informed as well as the physician, then I have no issue. Heck, if you told some people that a drug has a 90% chance of keeping me healthy until the ripe old age of 110 but a 10% risk of causing death immediately… they would be first in line to take it… and they have a right (in my book anyway) but only if those stats are true… if the maker of the drug was making billions of bucks and the drug was really a fifty-fifty chance of long life or immediate death then… the answer is obvious to me about whether the manufacturer should be found liable.

Whew… that’s a heck of a post… and, again, the asker here has done his homework… as should we all!

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

Not to be a cynic but API you took the words right out of my mouth, especially when I saw it's his first post. Hope I'm wrong, would be nice to have another unbiased MD on the board...

I am probably biased... but I try to present good arguments and facts to support my bias!

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

The guy's an attorney and this is as good of a place as any to advertise. Think about it, this site gets more views than any other related to testosterone, and most of the views are not from registered members of the site, they're passerby's. Anyway, I do not expect my post to be responded to as I suspect his OP was just that, advertisement, as well as a copy paste post, but it would be nice to hear someone defend those points rather than listening to myself talk, lol!

You've been responded to!
- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

Yes, and I was respectfully trying to give him a chance to redeem himself from coming across as the asshole that many attorneys are.

Um... may attorneys are assholes... I can't really argue against that... but I do prefer the term "anus."

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

I get a feeling the guy in #9 is somehow related to this attorney's advertisement. Could be wrong but you don't see two first time posts set up like that very often.

I really did not read that one until you mentioned it... no set up here... but you gave me a good idea! Thanks... this site is educational!

- Paul

[Paul J Molinaro MDJD]

Haha. He's had this planed a long time I tell ya.

I'm getting slower with age... maybe I need my T checked? My personality indicates my levels would be high, but my physique would indicate low... though my In 'n Out burger levels are well maintained.

- Paul